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Post by tufta on Apr 10, 2010 10:14:51 GMT 1
Lech Kaczynski the Polish president and 96 people, top officials of the state were killed in plane crash in Smolensk, Russia today morning.
The shock, the sadness and thousands other feelings is overwhelming.
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Post by coco on Apr 10, 2010 14:01:26 GMT 1
Lech Kaczynski the Polish president and 132 people, top officials of the state were killed in plane crash in Smolensk, Russia today morning. The shock, the sadness and thousands other feelings is overwhelming. What cause plane to crash? I think something is going on over there. Now I got more informations, pilot did make mistake of landing. |
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Post by valpomike on Apr 10, 2010 16:49:59 GMT 1
All of our prayers must go out for all of those, killed in this crash. Poland is strong, and will go on. There are many fine leaders who must step up and help with the job.
POLAND FOREVER.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 10, 2010 21:32:07 GMT 1
It is like a bad dream. I still think I must wake up to stop this nightmare. I wasn`t particularly fond of Kaczyński, but I had never wished him death. In a way, the President, a great patriot of Poland, achieved a success - the whole world learnt about Katyn Massacre. I heard about the crash in the morning, driving to work. There was the news on one radio station and then they started playing solemn music. I changed stations one after another and they were all playing music. It was a good moment for quiet pondering, before all those commentaries started. See the decor of main Polish news sites - everything is black and white. www.tvn24.pl/www.onet.pl/The cause of the accident - thick fog over the underinvested airport in Smolensk, Russia. Because they don`t have special equpment for landing in difficult weather conditions, the Russian air control advised Poles to go to another airport, but to no avail. The Polish pilots tried to land a few times, at least 3, which is an unheard-of situation in aviation because after the very first futile attempt of landing a pilot should give up and look for another airport. I can imagine the pressure that the pilots of Polish Air Force 1 were under. They were going to take part in the 70th anniversary celebration of Katyn Masacre, and the President just had to be delivered there. What is worse, they had taken off from Warsaw late, so they were in a hurry. The pilots took a risk but lost. See the computer simulation of the crash www.tvn24.pl/-1,1651578,0,1,tak-mogla-wygladac-katastrofa-podobna-do-wypadku-casy,wiadomosc.html Vladimir Putin, President of Russia, arrived at the site:           |
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Post by tufta on Apr 10, 2010 21:35:06 GMT 1
What cause plane to crash? I think something is going on over there.
[/quote]
It was an accident. Accidents happen due to a chain of 'misfortunes'.
We have to wait until the investigation is completed to know the causes. Until that time it is better not to speculate. And keep the things going in Poland 'as usual' in spite of the shock and the mourning.
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Post by valpomike on Apr 10, 2010 21:37:49 GMT 1
Many on the yahoo site, think that the Russians did it, do you?
Could they have done it?
I feel sorry for all the families who had this loss, and all of Poland. I think he was a great man.
Poland has many great leaders, and I am sure, the change will work out well for Poland.
We all need to stop and say a prayer for all of those who gave their life's.
Mike
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Post by tufta on Apr 10, 2010 21:39:32 GMT 1
...From @hipparkhos on Twitter, Dans son dernier tweet, @jkochanowski, mort ce matin, espérait que Katyn devienne un lieu de réconciliation entre Pologne et Russie. About twelve hours before the plane carrying him crashed near Smolensk, Janusz Kochanowski, Poland's commissioner for civil rights protection, left a public message hoping that Katyn would become a place of reconciliation between Poland and Russia. The message also contained a link to a letter (pdf, in Polish) to his counterpart in the Russian Federation. www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2010/04/janusz_kochanowskis_last_public_message |
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Post by valpomike on Apr 10, 2010 21:42:45 GMT 1
Russians doing the investigations are like having the fox guard the hen house, don't you think?
Mike
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Post by tufta on Apr 10, 2010 21:43:37 GMT 1
Many on the yahoo site, think that the Russians did it, do you? I don't think so. I think it is the most silly thing to think, which demonstartes absolute lack of knowledge about the nature of politics of Russia and Polish-Russian relations. |
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Post by tufta on Apr 10, 2010 21:45:27 GMT 1
Russians doing the investigations are like having the fox guard the hen house, don't you think? Mike Place spare me your russophobia for this one week, could you Mike? Dziekuje. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 10, 2010 21:51:57 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 10, 2010 22:01:01 GMT 1
President Kaczynski dies in plane crash
10.04.2010 13:30
A plane carrying Poland’s president Lech Kaczynski and others travelling to Smolensk for a Katyn commemoration ceremony has crashed. Ninety six people were reported on board the ageing Tupolev Tu-154 presidential plane.
Foreign Minister spokesman Piotr Paszkowski said that the presidential plane, which took off from Warsaw airport at 6.50 CET this morning, crashed and burst into flames as it was manoeuvring to land at an airport Smolensk, 225 kilometres from Moscow. The governor of Smolensk has confirmed that nobody on board survived the crash.
"As it was preparing for landing, the Polish president's aircraft did not make it to the landing strip," Governor Sergei Antufiev told Russian TV.
The Russian emergencies ministry told Itar-Tass news agency the plane crashed at 1056 Moscow time (0756 CET). Eye witnesses say that the plane tried to land no less than four times in what was very bad weather conditions with bad visibility.
Russian TV is reporting that the left wing of the plane touched the tops of some trees, forcing the aircraft to crash where it broke into several pieces and burst into flames.
President Kaczynski, accompanied by distinguished guests including head of the Institute of National Remembrance Janusz Kurtyka, head of the Polish National Bank Slawomir Skrzypek and First Lady Maria Kaczynska were on their way to join war veterans this morning attending a 70th anniversary ceremony to the victims of the 1940 Katyn massacre.
Many of Poland's political and military elite appear to have lost their lives in the accident, including Poland’s the last president in exile Ryszard Kaczorowski, former defence minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski, head of the Presidential Chancellery Wladyslaw Stasiak, presidential spokesman Pawel Wypych, Secretary of State Mariusz Handzlik, head of the Law and Justice party in parliament Przemyslaw Gosiewski, MP Zbigniew Wassermann and Bishop Tadeusz Płoski.
Flags flying outside the Presidential Palace in Warsaw have been lowered to half-mast.
Komorowski takes over as head of state
According to Poland’s constitution, on the death of a president which in office, the second highest ranking politician takes over as head of state, in this case this is Speaker of Parliament Bronislaw Komorowski. Poland’s public television station TVP is reporting that on the death of Poland’s head of state, a date for presidential elections must be called within two weeks and take place no later than 60 days.
"In line with the constitution, we will have to hold an early presidential poll," government spokesman Pawel Gras told Reuters.
A special mass will be held for the dead at Wawel castle in Krakow this afternoon.
Prime Minister Donald Tusk has left Gdansk for Warsaw this morning and has called an emergency meeting of the Council of Ministers. www.thenews.pl/national/?id=129153
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Post by jeanne on Apr 10, 2010 22:24:35 GMT 1
It is like a bad dream. I still think I must wake up to stop this nightmare. I wasn`t particularly fond of Kaczyński, but I had never wished him death. In a way, the President, a great patriot of Poland, achieved a success - the whole world learnt about Katyn Massacre. This is indeed a tragedy for Poland...my condolences to all my Polish friends on this forum. Bonobo, your point is well taken that Lech Kaczynski accomplished something significant by bringing knowledge of Katyn to the worldwide community. How ironic it all is that he should perish at that sight along with all the other high-ranking Poles. May they all rest in God's peace. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 10, 2010 22:25:31 GMT 1
Mike, I removed the last post about Russians because it was really going too far and upsetting people here even further. Stop it, please. Remain serious on such a day. The truth is that Polish pilots, under great pressure of the historical and political circumstances, made the last mistake in their lives. Polish and Russian Prime Ministers       |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 10, 2010 23:40:30 GMT 1
Katyn - the damned land. It is a symbol of Polish suffering in 20 century, the place where thousands from the elites of the Polish nation were executed in 1940. Today, the fate plays its dirty tricks on Poland again.  |
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Post by coco on Apr 11, 2010 1:13:02 GMT 1
What cause plane to crash? I think something is going on over there. It was an accident. Accidents happen due to a chain of 'misfortunes'. We have to wait until the investigation is completed to know the causes. Until that time it is better not to speculate. And keep the things going in Poland 'as usual' in spite of the shock and the mourning. [/quote] You won't believe this, I always watching 6:00 am Chicago Time news and today I didn't watch news. I am so mad and wished I watching this news. I am upset about this. All of Government workers were on planes. My God! |
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Post by tufta on Apr 11, 2010 6:02:23 GMT 1
Bonobo, your point is well taken that Lech Kaczynski accomplished something significant by bringing knowledge of Katyn to the worldwide community. How ironic it all is that he should perish at that sight along with all the other high-ranking Poles. May they all rest in God's peace. I agree here very much. And thank you all for soothing words of empathy. It really helps as the shock is enormous. We are living like in a (bad) dream here. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 11, 2010 8:31:41 GMT 1
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Post by franciszek on Apr 11, 2010 8:32:26 GMT 1
Please accept my condolences on a sad time for your country a tragic waste of many lives my thoughts are with you all.
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Post by jeanne on Apr 11, 2010 11:29:46 GMT 1
I agree here very much. And thank you all for soothing words of empathy. It really helps as the shock is enormous. We are living like in a (bad) dream here. Having lived through tragic national events during my lifetime in my own country, I deeply empathize with you all, and my heart is with you. |
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Post by coco on Apr 11, 2010 14:16:13 GMT 1
Bonobo, I am so glad I am member of this forum because of your lovely messages about Poland. I am learning more in here than Chicago TV news.
I think you are doing well in here.
I am getting ideas how Poland feel. I do hope PolandGovernments have temporay replacement till elections. My God, I am so sad and I can feel your pains.
Take Care and Be Strong for this week.
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 11, 2010 14:39:09 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 11, 2010 14:47:53 GMT 1
Bonobo, I am so glad I am member of this forum because of your lovely messages about Poland. I am learning more in here than Chicago TV news. I think you are doing well in here. I am getting ideas how Poland feel. I do hope PolandGovernments have temporay replacement till elections. My God, I am so sad and I can feel your pains. Take Care and Be Strong for this week. The tragedy has a really national range and impact on many people. Today, during the mass service, we learnt that one of the perished was a member of our parish, he left 3 sons, two of whom are senior altar boys in our church and have regularly assisted in services. Andrzej Kremer (8 August 1961 – 10 April 2010) was the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland. He was a lawyer, a judge, an academic teacher of law faculty at the Jagiellonian University.  This is all really depressing. But life must go on. |
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Post by valpomike on Apr 11, 2010 17:11:47 GMT 1
Sorry to all, but my love of Poland and it's people, and what they are going through now, it hurts. What if someone is responsible?
What action would be taken.
Again, I am very sorry for the loss of these great people, and don't understand why we did not get better coverage in the news, here, in the USA. Chicago is close, and has many Polish people, who need this information.
Mike
AGAIN, I AM VERY SORRY FOR POLAND'S LOSS. I WILL PRAY FOR THEM.
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Post by tufta on Apr 11, 2010 17:46:20 GMT 1
Tufta, I suggest you start a parallel thread in OUR OWN PHOTOS of POLAND board to put your own photos there. Possibly, in People of Poland.
Done! |
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Post by coco on Apr 11, 2010 19:15:21 GMT 1
I found out Polish President Lech Kaczynsk have twin brother. Good thing they went different airplane. He used to be Prime Minister if I am correct.
Is he Prime Minister now? Can he take over his brother's position till Election Day? I think it would be much comfortable for People of Poland. They need his twin brother for now.
Take Care!
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 11, 2010 19:24:09 GMT 1
President Lech Kaczynski's body returns to Poland
The body of Polish President Lech Kaczynski - who died along with 95 others when their plane crashed in Russia - has arrived back in Warsaw.
It was driven through crowd-lined streets to the presidential palace, where it will lie in state for a week.
The president, military chiefs and MPs were due to attend a memorial for a World War II massacre when their plane crashed near Smolensk on Saturday.
Russian officials say the pilots were warned that they were flying too low.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin earlier attended a memorial service for the victims at the crash site, near the city of Smolensk.
He has said he would personally oversee the investigation into the disaster, promising to find out what happened as soon as possible.
No-one survived Saturday's crash, and acting Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski has called for a week's mourning for the dead.
He, Prime Minister Donald Tusk and the president's twin brother, Jaroslaw, were among the dignitaries to receive Mr Kaczynski's coffin at a military airport in Warsaw after its repatriation from Smolensk.
The casket, draped in the red-and-white Polish flag, was carried across the tarmac by soldiers and placed before Catholic clerics who led a short prayer service before mourners took turns to kneel before the coffin and pay their respects.
Crowds of Poles lined the streets of the city, standing silently as the president's body was driven under military escort to the presidential palace, where it will be available for public viewing.
Thousands had gathered in front of the building, carrying flowers, candles, Polish flags and portraits of the deceased.
Some wept, others stood in silent reflection. As the president's body arrived, they softly began to sing the Polish national anthem.
Church services to honour their memory were earlier held across the country, as was a two-minute tribute, with church bells and police sirens.
'A great patriot'
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, Poland's former prime minister, had earlier travelled to Russia to help identify his twin's body.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski prays over the coffin of his twin brother, Lech, at Warsaw airport, 11 April 2010
Lech Kaczynski's brother, Jaroslaw, was among the mourners at the airport
The brothers' strong nationalist, conservative agenda divided opinion in Poland, but the BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw says the president's supporters and opponents have joined together in paying tribute to him.
Boguslaw Staron, a 70-year-old from Warsaw, described Mr Kaczynski as "a great patriot".
"He taught Poles how to respect our traditions, how to fight for our dignity, and he made his sacrifice there at that tragic place," he said.
Poles gathered in town squares and in the streets at midday (1000 GMT) and stood silently to mark the tragedy, as church bells rang and emergency sirens wailed around them.
The president had been flying to Russia along with his wife, the heads of the army and navy, MPs and senior historians to mark 70 years since Soviet forces massacred more than 20,000 Poles near Katyn.
Russia has declared Monday a day of mourning and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who visited the crash site with Polish counterpart Donald Tusk, said he would oversee the inquiry.
Russian and Polish investigators have recovered the flight-data recorders and are carrying out a joint inquiry.
They are looking into the possibility that pilots ignored warnings that they were approaching Smolensk too low.
Experts have also suggested that the age and condition of the Polish president's Soviet-era Tupolev 154 plane could have played a part in the accident.
Correspondents say the plane was flying too low and clipped some trees as it approached the runway in thick fog, before it came down in a forest.
A Russian general said air traffic controllers had repeatedly urged the pilots to pull up.
Investigators from the Russian emergencies ministry are sifting through the debris but say there was no evidence of mechanical failure.
Mr Kaczynski was a controversial figure in Polish politics.
He was active in the Solidarity movement that helped bring an end to Communist rule, but later fell out with Solidarity leader Lech Walesa.
He advocated traditional Catholic values, opposed rapid free-market reforms and favoured retaining social welfare programmes.
As president, he held fewer powers than the prime minister but retained a significant say in foreign policy. He could veto new laws and frequently blocked government reforms.
KATYN MASSACRE
Soviet secret police shoot dead more than 20,000 Polish prisoners-of-war, drawn mainly from the political, military and cultural elite
For 50 years, Soviet authorities blame Nazis for slaughter
In 1990, Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev admits Soviet responsibility. Vladimir Putin's invitation to memorial seen as attempt to resolve issue, which has continued to blight Polish-Russian relations
The body of Polish President Lech Kaczynski has been flown back to Warsaw a day after his plane crashed in western Russia, killing all 96 people on board.  Lech Kaczynski's daughter, Marta, wept as his coffin was removed from the plane before a brief religious service.  Among those gathered to meet the coffin at the military airport were his twin brother, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who led the mourners in kneeling beside the casket to pay his respects.  Crowds of Poles lined the streets of Warsaw as the coffin was driven to the presidential palace. As the hearse carrying the late president's body passed by, some wept, some stood in silent reflection, while many strained to capture the moment with a photograph.   The palace resembles a shrine, the square outside festooned with flowers, Polish flags and portraits of the dead.  The coffin will lie in state at the palace for a week, where it will be available for public viewing.  Russia has declared Monday a day of mourning and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said he would oversee the inquiry into the crash.  news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/8614296.stm  news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8614021.stm?ls |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 11, 2010 21:02:26 GMT 1
 National leaders: President Lech Kaczynski and wife Maria Former President-in-exile Ryszard Kaczorowski Top civil servant: Slawomir Skrzypek National Bank of Poland chairman Other politicians: Wladyslaw Stasiak chief of the president's chancellery Aleksander Szczyglo chief of the National Security Office Jerzy Szmajdzinski deputy speaker of the lower house Andrzej Kremer Foreign Ministry's undersecretary of state Stanislaw Komorowski deputy minister of national defence Przemyslaw Gosiewski Law and Justice party deputy chair Military figures: Franciszek Gagor chief of the general staff Andrzej Blasik head of the air force Andrzej Karweta head of the navy Tadeusz Buk land forces commander Aleksander Szczyglo head of the National Security Office Cultural figures: Andrzej Przewoznik head of Poland's Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites Tomasz Merta chief historical conservator   President`s people who died with him. Their names are here: www.tvn24.pl/-1,1651833,0,1,w-kancelarii-znicze-pod-gabinetami-ofiar,wiadomosc.html         Pilots and stewardesses. Their names are here: www.tvn24.pl/-1,1651639,0,1,sluzyli-zgineli,wiadomosc.html       Policemen and security men          news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8613395.stmMr Szczyglo, 46, was chief of the National Security Office (or BBN), the government agency in charge of national security, answering to the president. In 2007 he served as defence minister in the government of Jaroslaw Kaczynski.  SLAWOMIR SKRZYPEK, GOVERNOR, NATIONAL BANK OF POLAND  JERZY SZMAJDZINSKI, DEPUTY SPEAKER OF THE LOWER HOUSE  General Gagor had been head of Poland's military since 2006. He was born on 8 September 1951.He was a career officer who later took an active part with United Nations peacekeeping operations. He was a senior officer on Poland's contingent in the first Gulf War in 1991 and then helped negotiate Poland's entry to Nato. He was married with two children.  RYSZARD KACZOROWSKI, FORMER PRESIDENT-IN-EXILE Faced with the Nazi invasion on one side, and the Soviets on the other, Mr Kaczorowski, 90, was one of many Poles who fled the country in the late 1930s and fought against the Nazis under the banner of the Polish armed forces in exile. Meanwhile, a group of dissidents set up a government-in-exile, which continued after the war, in opposition to the Communist government. From 1989-90, Mr Kaczorowski, an accountant who lived in Harrow in north London, served as the last president-in-exile. In December 1990, he passed on the insignia of the presidency to the first democratically elected president, Lech Walesa, in a high-profile ceremony.  ANNA WALENTYNOWICZ Anna Walentynowicz was a crane driver and trade union activist at the Gdansk shipyard whose dismissal in 1980 sparked the strike that led to the creation of the Solidarity movement. She was born in 1929 and orphaned during WWII. She played herself in several movies that depicted the events of the Gdansk strike.  |
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Post by coco on Apr 11, 2010 21:04:49 GMT 1
Thank You Bonobo!
What a beautiful pictures, where is First Lady Maria's body at?
I am wondering if they are buried together in coffin.
Take Care!
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 11, 2010 21:27:14 GMT 1
Thank You Bonobo! What a beautiful pictures, where is First Lady Maria's body at? I am wondering if they are buried together in coffin. Take Care! Her body hasn`t been identified yet. Most bodies are in very bad condition. DNA testing will be used. The perished left their relatives behind.          |
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