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Post by jeanne on May 14, 2008 11:14:23 GMT 1
I agree. When I first went to college, I actually went with the idea of being a French major. I could read French well, and actually started being able to think in French, but I just could not get my speaking fluent...it was frustrating, so I abandoned the idea of being a French major. I was a double major - Spanish and Business. I was good at reading and translating, aced all of my written tests, but the oral exams tripped me up. I thought perhaps it was the language itself, so I began to study French as well. Maybe I should have chosen a non-Romance language. It was the same outcome. Then I began to think and speak in a combination of the two (would that be Frenish)? Did you ever go to France to study? I wanted to go to Spain, but I didn't have the money to do so. I think that might have helped. The sink or swim theory, right? Like you, I also did well on exams, etc. I thought I must be good at French if I was doing so well, that's why I decided to major in it when I first went to college. It didn't take long for me to switch majors! And no, I never went to France to study, but perhaps it would have helped. Since I have worked in education and seen the problems some kids have with auditory processing, I have realized that one part of my problem is that it just takes me awhile to process what I am hearing, and that is why I could never keep up with fast, fluent speakers of French. The same would, I'm sure, be the case with Polish, but I would like at least to learn enough to communicate on a rudimentary level...
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on May 14, 2008 13:29:03 GMT 1
I still include learn and use a foreign language on my "life list". I guess some would now use the term "bucket list" thanks to that new movie that is out. Kind of a glass half full vs. half empty thing.
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Post by jeanne on May 14, 2008 22:55:55 GMT 1
I still include learn and use a foreign language on my "life list". I guess some would now use the term "bucket list" thanks to that new movie that is out. Kind of a glass half full vs. half empty thing. So you didn't keep up with the Spanish? It went the way of my French? I keep thinking that maybe I would be more successful with Polish because it's in my genes. What a dreamer I am!
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Post by Bonobo on May 15, 2008 20:31:10 GMT 1
There is no connection...'scramble' simply has two meanings; one is like you said, kind of running quickly/climbing quickly. The other meaning is to mix something up...like eggs; once you have broken them and put them in a bowl or pan, you beat them before cooking. You could 'scramble' the letters of a word to make a puzzle, or scramble radio signals to confuse the enemy. Interesting but I somehow missed that meaning of mixing. Oh, I see, a mistake that slowly becomes a language rule. Like "inflammable." Do you mean what I know? Yes, I feel it this way too. But, does it happen that undereducated people in the USA use both variants interchangeably? Not necessarily an old fashioned carriage is implied here. A coach means a tourist bus in Britain. Actually, in one exercise in a textbook there is coach in its two meanings and my students are always puzzled. The exercise concerns people who work at the summer camp: Dave is a coach driver while Sam is a sports coach. It is, actually, check swish in the Net slang dictionary. www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=8&t=11636Oh, I see. Very interesting, indeed. Yes, of course, but it struck me how inconsistent they are sometimes, to use two variants in one exercise.
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Post by jeanne on May 16, 2008 1:59:13 GMT 1
Oh, I see, a mistake that slowly becomes a language rule. Like "inflammable." Do you mean what I know? Yes, I mean what you know... ;D I don't think it's just undereducated people who could use both variants interchangeably, I think lots of educated people also may. As I've said before, sometimes it's just oral laziness. Yes, sorry I forgot to mention that meaning. In the US 'coach' can also be a bus. But I liked the Cinderella explanation better... I believe you without checking it. Maybe because it is a textbook, they wanted to demonstrate both variables together for the students to see?
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Post by locopolaco on May 16, 2008 3:22:18 GMT 1
you'll always swim. trust yourself jeanny, gigi, where in the world are you gals from? i had the hardest time with french, kind of struggled with spanish too but i don't think the latter is that hard. english is chock full of latin based words and guess what is spanish root? i am actually planning on learning spanish sometime in the near future. if you're an english language based, seems there is little success as the sounds and the consonant combinations aren't very familiar and there are more rules, way more in polish then in english. BUT, i surely don't want to discourage anybody. most people will say it ether way. coach: yes, a team "teacher", bus or a class of train/plain compartment.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on May 16, 2008 4:39:02 GMT 1
So you didn't keep up with the Spanish? It went the way of my French? I keep thinking that maybe I would be more successful with Polish because it's in my genes. What a dreamer I am! No, the Spanish major went the way of the accounting major (but the latter was a good thing). My genealogy journey currently has me working on Italian, German, Romansh, and now Polish. Hmm...maybe I will learn some Mandarin Chinese for fun. I think that it is great that you want to learn Polish. It is not an easy language to learn, so you deserve a lot of credit for trying! We could always ask Bonobo for a "Polish Phrase of the Day" thread, but he might teach us things that ladies should not say!
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on May 16, 2008 5:07:50 GMT 1
State of Hockey, USA
How many languages have you studied? Is it for your job or is it a personal interest?
I found Spanish to be fairly easy to learn. I picked up French even faster because of having the background knowledge of another Latin based language, but I only studied it for a year. I am able to figure out some Italian because of the Latin base, but my foreign language skills are a bit rusty. I had forgotten how much fun foreign pronouns and verbs can be!
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Post by jeanne on May 16, 2008 11:35:12 GMT 1
I think that it is great that you want to learn Polish. It is not an easy language to learn, so you deserve a lot of credit for trying! We could always ask Bonobo for a "Polish Phrase of the Day" thread, but he might teach us things that ladies should not say! Trust me, I'm not 'diving' into Polish yet, just sticking my toe in! But some day I would like to be able to hold my head above water and 'swim'. ;D
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Post by Bonobo on May 16, 2008 23:55:06 GMT 1
We could always ask Bonobo for a "Polish Phrase of the Day" thread, Yes, it is a very good idea. Not at all. I will teach you phrases that all people can say or hear, ladies too. E.g., Gdzie są moje spodnie??? Where are my trousers???
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Post by jeanne on May 17, 2008 11:42:08 GMT 1
We could always ask Bonobo for a "Polish Phrase of the Day" thread, but he might teach us things that ladies should not say! Most of the little amount of Polish that I do know is this type of phrase, learned from my aunts who said these things when they were mad! I have no idea what they mean, and once I said one in front of a Polish-speaking co-worker and he was shocked! And...it's not that I don't trust Bonobo...buuut...his sense of humor might get the best of him at our expense! ;D
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Post by Bonobo on May 18, 2008 21:27:56 GMT 1
We could always ask Bonobo for a "Polish Phrase of the Day" thread, but he might teach us things that ladies should not say! Most of the little amount of Polish that I do know is this type of phrase, learned from my aunts who said these things when they were mad! I have no idea what they mean, and once I said one in front of a Polish-speaking co-worker and he was shocked! Hmm, I wonder what it could be.. Old aunts are rather peaceful creatures..... and their piousness refrains them from swearing too coarsely No, I would never take advantage of my Polish language superiority to play tricks on you! Here is another useful phrase: Wyszłam za mąż, zaraz wracam. I got married, coming back soon.
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Post by jeanne on May 18, 2008 22:04:16 GMT 1
Hmm, I wonder what it could be.. Old aunts are rather peaceful creatures..... and their piousness refrains them from swearing too coarsely Well, keep in mind that I learned these phrases when I was a child, so my aunts were in their thirties then and raising children... so there was ample reason to express their frustration. I do remember both phrases were said when someone was displeasing them by their speaking...one phrase when someone was talking too much... and the other when they didn't like what they were saying ( this one had 'dupa' in it ) Okay, seriously, can you dissect these phases in the Polish form for us? Which words mean what? This would be tremendously helpful for me...
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Post by Bonobo on May 18, 2008 22:18:26 GMT 1
Hmm, I wonder what it could be.. Old aunts are rather peaceful creatures..... and their piousness refrains them from swearing too coarsely Well, keep in mind that I learned these phrases when I was a child, so my aunts were in their thirties then and raising children... so there was ample reason to express their frustration. I do remember both phrases were said when someone was displeasing them by their speaking...one phrase when someone was talking too much... and the other when they didn't like what they were saying ( this one had 'dupa' in it ) Aaahh, I see, it was pocałuj mnie w dupę - kiss my aaassss. Gdzie są moje spodnie? is easy because Where are my trousers? have the same word order. Wyszłam za mąż equals I got married, zaraz is soon, wracam means I am coming back. Be aware that there are two expressions meaning marriage in Polish. Wyjść za mąż (go after husband) refers to women, while ożenić się (take a woman) refers to men. Some hasty Poles, especially young ones but not only, frequently make mistakes with them.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Jul 26, 2008 16:50:05 GMT 1
Has anyone ever heard these Polish proverbs?
The woman cries before the wedding and the man after.
Fish, to taste good, must swim three times: in water, in butter, and in wine. Words must be weighed, not counted.
I especially like the one about the fish! ;D
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Post by tufta on Jul 26, 2008 20:39:31 GMT 1
Has anyone ever heard these Polish proverbs? The woman cries before the wedding and the man after. Fish, to taste good, must swim three times: in water, in butter, and in wine. Words must be weighed, not counted. I especially like the one about the fish! ;D The Polish 'fish' proverb I know sounds 'Rybka lubi pływać', which is 'fish likes to swim' and fundamentally means exactly the same as in the English version presented
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on Jul 27, 2008 5:18:04 GMT 1
Fish, to taste good, must swim three times: in water, in butter, and in wine. The Polish 'fish' proverb I know sounds 'Rybka lubi pływać', which is 'fish likes to swim' and fundamentally means exactly the same as in the English version presented Thanks Tufta! The proverbs were listed as being from Poland, but unfortunately they did not include Polish translations. Is this perhaps correct: The woman cries before the wedding and the man after. Kobieta płacze przed ślubem a mężczyzna po.I could not find translations for these three either, but I tried to do the translation myself. I know that the first one in particular is not quite right, but it is good to practice my translating skills! Under capitalism man exploits man under socialism the reverse is true. Pod człowiekiem kapitalizmu eksploatuje człowieka pod socjalizmem przemiana jest prawdziwa. Even a clock that does not work is right twice a day. Nawet zegar który robi nie praca jest prawo dwukrotnie dzień.Those who argue like each other. Tych którzy twierdzą podobnie jak wzajemnie.Here are a few other interesting proverbs/sayings/quotes in both English and Polish. I did not do the translations for these. Please let me know if they are not correct. Sukces ma wieju ojców, porazka jest sierota.A success has many fathers, a failure is an orphan. Co po trzezwemu mysli, to po pijanemu powie.What one thinks when sober, one says when drunk. "Miłość wchodzi mężczyźnie przez oczy a kobiecie przez uszy.""Love enters man through his eyes, woman through her ears." Quote from Ludwika Godlewska
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Post by tufta on Jul 28, 2008 11:22:33 GMT 1
The woman cries before the wedding and the man after. Kobieta płacze przed ślubem a mężczyzna po.
Perfect Under capitalism man exploits man under socialism the reverse is true. Pod człowiekiem kapitalizmu eksploatuje człowieka pod socjalizmem przemiana jest prawdziwa. Hehehe, this one of the long series of "Radio Erevan" jokes W kapitalizmie człowiek wyzyskuje człowieka, a w socjalizmie - na odwrót. Even a clock that does not work is right twice a day. Nawet zegar który robi nie praca jest prawo dwukrotnie dzień.Nawet popsuty zegarek dwa razy na dobę ma rację Those who argue like each other. Tych którzy twierdzą podobnie jak wzajemnie.Kto się czubi ten się lubi Here are a few other interesting proverbs/sayings/quotes in both English and Polish. I did not do the translations for these. Please let me know if they are not correct. They are all perfect. Gigi, as these are proverbs they often use idioms, so the exact translation is not always perfect. For instance the word 'czubić się' which is something like argue, tells much more than simple argue. I hope you ger my point
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Jul 28, 2008 14:21:47 GMT 1
Gigi, as these are proverbs they often use idioms, so the exact translation is not always perfect. For instance the word 'czubić się' which is something like argue, tells much more than simple argue. I hope you ger my point Thanks Tufta! Although I would probably never use these in a conversation (but then again, who knows?), it is a fun way to learn more Polish! Speaking of learning Polish...my son and I were listening to a Polish language tape together yesterday. He found it very amusing that the Polish word for brother is 'brat'. I expect that he will be addressing his brother in Polish frequently now... ;D
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 3, 2008 19:41:05 GMT 1
Has anyone ever heard these Polish proverbs? The woman cries before the wedding and the man after. Fish, to taste good, must swim three times: in water, in butter, and in wine. Words must be weighed, not counted. I especially like the one about the fish! ;D They are not proverbs from the most famous proverbs` list. The Polish 'fish' proverb I know sounds 'Rybka lubi pływać', which is 'fish likes to swim' and fundamentally means exactly the same as in the English version presented This one is certainly quite high on the list of most famous Polish sayings.
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 3, 2008 19:50:09 GMT 1
Gigi, as these are proverbs they often use idioms, so the exact translation is not always perfect. For instance the word 'czubić się' which is something like argue, tells much more than simple argue. I hope you ger my point Czubić się comes from czub - a crest and is used for c ocks, oops, sorry, roosters or other birds with a standing crest. Czubić się brings associations of fighting roosters. Not quite. In Poland nobody uses brat to address a brother. Polish language has a full declination of endings depending on seven (!) cases, that is why he should say: bracie [bratshe] or diminutive braciszku - little brother - [bratshishku].
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 29, 2008 19:42:57 GMT 1
Pozdrowienia dla wszystkich! I wy także! (Gosh, I hope that's right...) Better is: Dla Was też! (for you too). Wy is you in the first case only, but other cases (there are 7 of them in Polish) require to use was. You are Polish - Wy jesteście Polakami. I like you - lubię was.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Aug 29, 2008 19:51:51 GMT 1
Better is: Dla Was też! (for you too). Wy is you in the first case only, but other cases (there are 7 of them in Polish) require to use was. Oh good, only 7... Do you see why help is needed???!!! Even the darn books, tapes, translators, etc. that I have seem to be wrong rather frequently. Maybe we could just have a "phrase of the day" or "daily grammar lesson" thread? Between you, tufta, and loco maybe it wouldn't be too much work??? Please don't make me beg...
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 29, 2008 23:49:05 GMT 1
Is it correct to say/wrote? : I must find some flat. The word some has been marked as a mistake on the high school exam site....
I have always thought it is correct. A bit colloqial, but still good...
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Aug 30, 2008 0:04:17 GMT 1
Is it correct to say/wrote? : I must find some flat. The word some has been marked as a mistake on the high school exam site.... 'Flat' as in a living space (U.S. = apartment)? If so, then it would be: I must find a flat.
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Post by jeanne on Aug 30, 2008 12:01:17 GMT 1
Is it correct to say/wrote? : I must find some flat. The word some has been marked as a mistake on the high school exam site.... I have always thought it is correct. A bit colloqial, but still good... It is colloquial, and I think the "some" is used to mean (in the case of your example) "any" rather than just "a" flat. Someone might use "some flat" if they are having trouble finding the type of flat they want, but that they need to find "some" (any) kind of flat to live in. The use of the word "some" in your phrase may just be a shortened form of "some kind of..." So I can see why it was marked as wrong on the exam, but I think native speakers would understand the meaning in the context of their conversation.
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 30, 2008 17:19:35 GMT 1
Is it correct to say/wrote? : I must find some flat. The word some has been marked as a mistake on the high school exam site.... 'Flat' as in a living space (U.S. = apartment)? If so, then it would be: I must find a flat. Is it correct to say/wrote? : I must find some flat. The word some has been marked as a mistake on the high school exam site.... I have always thought it is correct. A bit colloqial, but still good... It is colloquial, and I think the "some" is used to mean (in the case of your example) "any" rather than just "a" flat. Someone might use "some flat" if they are having trouble finding the type of flat they want, but that they need to find "some" (any) kind of flat to live in. The use of the word "some" in your phrase may just be a shortened form of "some kind of..." So I can see why it was marked as wrong on the exam, but I think native speakers would understand the meaning in the context of their conversation. I am asking because I have used it with singular nouns very often. I just remembered the grammar theory I read at the uni in 1980s, I still have the book: A Practical English Grammar, by Thomson and Martinet. Here is what they say about it: some or any used with singular nouns
Some can be used to mean "an unspecified or unknown": Some idiot parked his car outside my garage.
He doesn`t believe in conventional medicine; he has some remedy of his own. I was curious to know if anything has changed about it... PS. Today I corrected two dozen repeat final exam papers, and my head is like a bee hive now. There are 7 left for tomorrow. But as it is a basic level, not advanced, the work isn`t too complicated. It is just tiring to guess which mistakes could be still accepted/understood by a native speaker and which not...
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Oct 31, 2008 21:04:07 GMT 1
There has been a bit of teasing here in the forum about Krakowians vs. Warsawians. I was curious to know if you can tell what part of Poland someone is from by the way they speak (meaning the sound of their words, not necessarily the words themselves).
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 31, 2008 21:43:34 GMT 1
There has been a bit of teasing here in the forum about Krakowians vs. Warsawians. I was curious to know if you can tell what part of Poland someone is from by the way they speak (meaning the sound of their words, not necessarily the words themselves). Yes, it is possible but the person speaking the dialect must be a true representative of the 3 groups which are the most notable/distinguished: Silesians, Highlanders or Mazurians. And he/she must preferrably live in a little town or village. It is rather impossible to hear the difference in educated city people`s talk.
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Post by locopolaco on Nov 1, 2008 3:41:00 GMT 1
There has been a bit of teasing here in the forum about Krakowians vs. Warsawians. I was curious to know if you can tell what part of Poland someone is from by the way they speak (meaning the sound of their words, not necessarily the words themselves). Yes, it is possible but the person speaking the dialect must be a true representative of the 3 groups which are the most notable/distinguished: Silesians, Highlanders or Mazurians. And he/she must preferrably live in a little town or village. It is rather impossible to hear the difference in educated city people`s talk. for the most part i'll agree but i can't really tell between silisian and mozovian. sounds the same to me for the most part. highlander is definitely very thick and can be hard to comprehend at first. it's a mix of pl, slovakian and czech. mazuruians have a slight dialectic difference but it's not even close as pronounced as the mountaineers. There has been a bit of teasing here in the forum about Krakowians vs. Warsawians. I was curious to know if you can tell what part of Poland someone is from by the way they speak (meaning the sound of their words, not necessarily the words themselves). not really.
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