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Post by franciszek on Apr 24, 2008 21:17:17 GMT 1
:'(Today some teachers in the UK went on strike for more pay would this happen in Poland and does any one agree/disagree with this action?
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Post by jeanne on Apr 25, 2008 1:40:18 GMT 1
:'(Today some teachers in the UK went on strike for more pay would this happen in Poland and does any one agree/disagree with this action? This is a very difficult issue. It's hard for me to agree or disagree, not knowing the details of the circumstances. In US teachers only strike as a very LAST resort. Frequently though, they do some "informational picketing" before or after school hours to let parents know the seriousness of the situation without disrupting their teaching. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 25, 2008 9:39:57 GMT 1
:'(Today some teachers in the UK went on strike for more pay would this happen in Poland and does any one agree/disagree with this action? It is probably going to happen in Poland too. The biggest union of teachers, a relict of the old communist teachers organization, is declaring its readiness to strike. As soon as in May. The reasons are financial. I don`t know what I will do. It is nice to get more money, yes. But teachers already got a pay rise this year. The Union says it is too low. Besides, the Union is a post communist organization and I am reluctant to act as they order. I have always been against communists ;D ;D ;D ;D What is more, they demand the pay rise without allowing for any changes in the Teacher Carta, the set of rules which protect lousy teachers from being fired for their incompetence or laziness or total inability to work with students. Currently The Carta says that a headmaster mustn`t fire a teacher unless they commit a cirme punishable by law. So, it is a comfortable situation for many teachers. They get more money for their incompetence and will keep their posts too. It is unfair. All in all, I think I will not strike. I wonder what my colleagues at school will say to it. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by franciszek on Apr 25, 2008 21:28:21 GMT 1
;)good for you i will comment more on this over the next few days i have just completed a grueling 5 day electrical course so my brain is not mine at the moment
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Post by franciszek on Apr 25, 2008 21:31:54 GMT 1
:'(Today some teachers in the UK went on strike for more pay would this happen in Poland and does any one agree/disagree with this action? This is a very difficult issue. It's hard for me to agree or disagree, not knowing the details of the circumstances. In US teachers only strike as a very LAST resort. Frequently though, they do some "informational picketing" before or after school hours to let parents know the seriousness of the situation without disrupting their teaching. as far as i can make out they want more money but i have not heard of teachers being in poverty |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 25, 2008 22:40:45 GMT 1
as far as i can make out they want more money but i have not heard of teachers being in poverty Maybe they are not in poverty, but often times teachers feel that with the level of education that is needed to perform their job well, they are not being paid comparably to what someone in the private sector would make with the same level of education. In other words, sometimes they feel they are being taken advantage of and not paid enough for the very important job that they do. This is the thinking often among teachers in USA...can't speak for the UK. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 25, 2008 23:02:52 GMT 1
as far as i can make out they want more money but i have not heard of teachers being in poverty Maybe they are not in poverty, but often times teachers feel that with the level of education that is needed to perform their job well, they are not being paid comparably to what someone in the private sector would make with the same level of education. In other words, sometimes they feel they are being taken advantage of and not paid enough for the very important job that they do. This is the thinking often among teachers in USA...can't speak for the UK. Teachers in Poland cherish the same feelings.... ;D The problem is that 10% of them should be fired immediately due to their complete incompetence or inaptitude and 20% should receive a serious warning in order to improve their attitude to work. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 25, 2008 23:08:58 GMT 1
;)good for you i will comment more on this over the next few days i have just completed a grueling 5 day electrical course so my brain is not mine at the moment Aaah, that is why you have frequented our forum scarcely recently!  |
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Post by franciszek on Apr 27, 2008 15:43:16 GMT 1
yes this is so i still have not digested properly what i have learnt yet but it was something i was forced to do by government legislation which came about because a M.Ps daughter was electrocuted by a kitchen fitter who had undertaken electrical work .No doubt this has happened before but as usual it takes a high profile case to highlight the dangers .I only needed a fraction of the course in fact 1-2 days would have been enough like the tutors said there was nothing else but there will be some time in the future.So now it has cost my employer £450 for the course plus my wage plus loss of his earnings then it will cost £250 to register me with a electrical body plus(every year) £300 for electrical testing equipment.A lot of money to recoup for the small amount of electrical appliances we fit per year the boss doesn't know all this yet but he will tomorrow.As for our teachers i think their pay is one of the best easily in the top 5 not too sure on exact figures but i know it is well paid and secure
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 28, 2008 20:26:04 GMT 1
yes this is so i still have not digested properly what i have learnt yet but it was something i was forced to do by government legislation which came about because a M.Ps daughter was electrocuted by a kitchen fitter who had undertaken electrical work . Do you mean an electric cooker or another appliance?? That`s life. They always make those trainings longer than necessary. Education centers get money fom longer ones. The same here, with my teaching courses. |
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Post by Bonobo on May 26, 2008 21:54:20 GMT 1
Tomorrow, on Tuesday, there is going to be a teachers` strike in Poland. .
The demands are as follows:
1. Rise salaries by 50%.
2. Teachers can retire 5 years earlier than law permits. E.g., men at 60, instead at 65. .
3. Teacher Carta must be preserved.
I refused to join in. Why do I always have to go against mainstream? Most teachers are going on strike and I have already received some unfriendly comments. But I don`t care.
Yes, I want a pay rise, sure, I don`t mind early retirement, neither. But I cannot accept the Teacher Carta because it allows lousy teachers stay in schools forever. I am against it.
Besides, the strike is organised by the biggest trade union, a post communist ZNP, Polish Teachers` Association. I have alway stayed away from communists. ;D
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Post by locopolaco on May 27, 2008 0:32:59 GMT 1
glad to hear that you are standing up for what YOU believe in. democracy is great, isn't it?
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Post by Bonobo on May 27, 2008 19:01:31 GMT 1
glad to hear that you are standing up for what YOU believe in. democracy is great, isn't it? Yes, because I am so obstinate. But what has democracy in common with what I believe in? About 50% schools went on strike. Frustrated teachers send their pay rolls for people to see their earnings after tax and deductions. Beginner teacher gets about 500$.  Contract teachers - 600$  Appointed teachers - 750$  Diplomed teachers - 1000$  |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on May 27, 2008 19:08:29 GMT 1
About 50% schools went on strike. Frustrated teachers send their pay rolls for people to see their earnings after tax and deductions. These amounts are earnings per week? |
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Post by Bonobo on May 27, 2008 19:31:10 GMT 1
About 50% schools went on strike. Frustrated teachers send their pay rolls for people to see their earnings after tax and deductions. These amounts are earnings per week? Why are you joking in such a cruel way? On behalf of all underpaid teachers of Poland, I am calling on you to stop making fun of teachers of Poland! The freshest photos from my school. Everything was quiet, no students, no lessons. I came for my two Tuesday lessons but I surfed the Internet instead. Most teachers were striking. About 6 weren`t.     |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on May 27, 2008 20:28:51 GMT 1
These amounts are earnings per week? You must be joking. hahahaha Per month. I wasn't, but I forgot to take into account the lower cost of living in Poland. Where do teachers fall in the overall job pay scale - somewhere in the middle, or on the low end? Are most teachers in the beginner, contract, appointed, or diplomed categories? Could you please explain what each category means? Thanks!  |
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Post by Bonobo on May 27, 2008 20:46:19 GMT 1
You must be joking. hahahaha Per month. I wasn't, but I forgot to take into account the lower cost of living in Poland. Where do teachers fall in the overall job pay scale - somewhere in the middle, or on the low end? Are most teachers in the beginner, contract, appointed, or diplomed categories? Could you please explain what each category means? Thanks! Somewhere in the middle. Underpaid intelligentsia workers complain that other jobs, though they don`t have to study so, get the same money, e..g, policemen. The categories mean a hierarchy of teachers. It depends on the length of work, and exams passed to get a promotion to the next level. You can become a diplomed teacher after about 10 years of working in school and attending time consuming, refresher courses. |
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Post by locopolaco on May 28, 2008 17:05:34 GMT 1
it is not cheaper in PL. not in comparison to most of the US. look into rent amounts sometime.
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Post by Bonobo on May 28, 2008 21:11:41 GMT 1
Yes, cost of living is almost the same. Some things are cheaper in the US, e.g., gas. Even American cars are cheaper when bought in the US instead of Poland and it is not the matter of transport, no.
I think some services are cheaper in Poland because of generally lower wages. Fixing cars, haircuts, dental care etc.
Polish teachers earn little, yes, but it must be said that they are required to work only 18 lessons per week in full time system. It is definitely very low, one of the lowest amount of lessons in Europe.
If teachers want to earn more, the lousy ones must be removed/fired, about 20% of them, the rest will work longer but their salaries will increase too.
However, teachers oppose this idea and their strike was against any changes. They want to retain their priviliges, and that`s natural, who doesn`t, but the Polish educational system can`t be improved if the changes don`t take place.
500$/1000 zl per month for a beginner teacher is very low in Poland. Such teachers have problems with providing for themselves, let alone starting a family. So, why anybody becomes a teacher in this country?
It is still an attractive job, especially for students from the countryside. Becoming a teacher means certain nobilitation, because, despite lousy earnings, teachers` job is treated with respect by Poles. All job respect rankings show that teachers occupy 3rd or 4th place, after doctors and judges. In result, many guys are ready to sacrifice their financial status for this respect.
Besides, teachers can work in many schools, not just one. E.g., I work in 3 places. Yes, it takes a lot of time but I bring home enough bacon and there are always holidays and religious festivals throughout the year, creating 3 months off work. It is a lot and enough to relax.
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Post by Bonobo on Sept 24, 2008 18:58:00 GMT 1
This can be true but aplies to primary and junior high schools mostly.
At high school level a number of points you get at junior high school exams decide which type of school/class you can go to.
I have seen it visiting junior high school in the area. Class A always consists of the most intelligent, dilligent, hard working students who have advanced English curiculum. Classes B,C,D, E, F are other types: general, sports and the students there are less brilliant.
Segregation in Polish schools is widespread – says a report prepared by scientists and teachers from the "Experience and Future" group. Pupils are divided at the start of the school year – those from low income families are grouped in one class and those from richer families in another. The practice has caused an outcry from education experts.
Krysia Ko³osowska reports
The segregation mechanism is simple. Parents are asked to fill in forms in which they have to provide information about their work place, post, salary and even housing conditions. On their basis the offspring of lawyers, engineers and doctors are assigned to one class, while children of shop assistants, manual workers and the jobless land up in a different class. Pupils are also divided into clever ones and those with learning problems.
One of the reasons is that schools want to be placed high in regional or national ranking lists of the best schools. Teachers say this helps them to organize their work better and prevent poor pupils from dragging down those who are more talented. A study conducted by a university expert four years ago revealed that pupils are segregated in terms of materials status in one out of five public primary schools.
Deputy education minister Zbigniew Marciniak says the education authorities are determined to combat segregation at school: `We need an educational campaign, which will show what the effects of such practices are. It will give headmasters arguments to oppose demands by some parents, who want to create better classes for their children.'
Michal Boni, a senior official in the prime minister's office, stresses that schools should help create equal opportunities for all pupils, rather than segregating them into better and poorer ones: `It is not the role of Polish school to separate poor children from richer ones. If we talk about extra lessons enabling poor students to catch up with the others, this is not segregation but help.'
Pupils themselves feel there is something basically wrong if the school authorities and parents try to create divisions between them, especially on the basis of material well-being: `I think this is wrong because it will an effect on their future lives. I've heard about this kind of treatment in other schools in Poland, that there is segregation for bright people and children from poor families are treated worse than those from richer one. It's like prejudice. Creating ghettoes. People who were in the worst class will feel that they are worse than other people.'
Headmasters admit that very often parents force the school authorities to divide pupils – they don't want their kids to mix with children who have a different social background. Such practices happen in almost all Polish cities and are especially vivid on the outskirts of big urban agglomerations, where children of local farmers mix at school with kids from middle class families, who moved to houses out of town.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Sept 24, 2008 19:11:20 GMT 1
This can be true but aplies to primary and junior high schools mostly. At high school level a number of points you get at junior high school exams decide which type of school/class you can go to. I have seen it visiting junior high school in the area. Class A always consists of the most intelligent, dilligent, hard working students who have advanced English curiculum. Classes B,C,D, E, F are other types: general, sports and the students there are less brilliant. It is one thing to segregate based on intelligence level - especially to ensure that those who are performing at the top levels continue to be challenged - but the other "reasons" seem wrong to me. |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 7, 2009 21:01:00 GMT 1
Being a teacher requires strong psyche and determination. It is not a job for the weak and cowardly. Hey, guys, let me remind you. Harrassing a public worker like a teacher is a crime in Poland. You`d better be gentle for me here ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. www.tvn24.pl/2197122,0,0,1,1,nie-tyllko-ryki,wideo.html
Student detained for teacher harassment
thenews.pl
04.02.2009
Another student accused of harassing his teacher has been detained in Ryki, in central Poland.
The boy has admitted to having harassed his teacher, explaining that he wanted to seem 'cool' in front of his friends, two of whom had been already detained.
Videos recorded in the class show the 19-year old boy not only
dancing and insulting the teacher, but also hitting him. He also
screamed "behave yourself or you will go to the hospital." The rest
of the teenagers in the class seemed to support their friends'
actions.
The boy expressed his strong regrets about what he had done, saying that he was ready to suffer the consequences, as well as apologize to the teacher in public.
The teacher, with 20 years experience in the classroom, filed
charges against the students only after the first of the recordings
was put on the internet in January. He stated that he had not filed
charges earlier because ` he was hoping that his students would
start behaving themselves.'
Jaroslaw O. and Kamil N., 19 year-olds detained on Monday with the
same charges, pleaded guilty. They faced a sentence of six and three months in prison, respectively, with three years additional parole.
As well, the boys face a 500 zloty (120 euro) and 300 zloty (70
euro) penalty, respectively. They will also have to make public
apologies. |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 19, 2016 22:23:22 GMT 1
Polish teachers warn of more protests against planned reforms
18.10.2016 15:12
The Polish Teachers' Union has announced more protests in mid-November against planned reforms to the education system.
The union wants two proposed bills, which would see significant changes to the education system in Poland, to be withdrawn, and has announced the protest will be held on 19 November.
In an earlier strike on 10 October, Polish teachers took to the streets in a string of cities across Poland.
Education Minister Anna Zalewska had earlier said that the government would not backtrack on its proposals, adding that the reforms were “thought-out, responsible and also the costs have been calculated.”
Zalewska also said that there will be no layoffs of teachers as a result of the reforms, but this issue remains a concern for unionists.
The government intends to do away with the current model of a six-year primary school system, a three-year middle school and three-year high school, and return to the older system of eight-year primary school and four-year high school/five-year vocational school, starting from 2017.
Teachers are also pressing for salary increases and more spending on education.
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Post by jeanne on Oct 20, 2016 14:30:41 GMT 1
The government intends to do away with the current model of a six-year primary school system, a three-year middle school and three-year high school, and return to the older system of eight-year primary school and four-year high school/five-year vocational school, starting from 2017. The current model sounds legitimate to me. I think that having a middle school is in line with what is best for the children developmentally. The children in those "middle school years" are in an awkward and difficult (for both them and adults who parent or teach them) stage of their growth (mentally, physically, and emotionally), and they need a specific kind of focus which has developed into the middle school philosophy. Returning to an eight year primary school model seems to me to be taking some giant steps backward...Just my opinion! What is the government's justification in advocating this change? Somewhere money must be involved in the decision...as it always is! |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 20, 2016 20:17:47 GMT 1
The government intends to do away with the current model of a six-year primary school system, a three-year middle school and three-year high school, and return to the older system of eight-year primary school and four-year high school/five-year vocational school, starting from 2017. The current model sounds legitimate to me. I think that having a middle school is in line with what is best for the children developmentally. The children in those "middle school years" are in an awkward and difficult (for both them and adults who parent or teach them) stage of their growth (mentally, physically, and emotionally), and they need a specific kind of focus which has developed into the middle school philosophy. Returning to an eight year primary school model seems to me to be taking some giant steps backward...Just my opinion! What is the government's justification in advocating this change? Somewhere money must be involved in the decision...as it always is! The main reason given by PiS is that Polish students are uneducated. It is a lie, against hard proofs, like world statistics. Even if they are uneducated, it is not fault of junior high school but of the general lowering of requirements on all levels of education, starting from elementary school. Yes, you are absolutely right, money is involved: - abolition of junior high schools will entail laying off about 50.000 teachers. - government allocates money to local councils for each student who attends schools in the area and high school students "cost" less than junior high. |
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 28, 2016 16:12:27 GMT 1
After 8 years, the topic of teachers` strike has come up again.
Polish teachers prepare to strike over education reforms
20.12.2016 12:45
The Polish Teachers’ Union is preparing for a general strike over government plans for sweeping education reforms, the PAP news agency reported on Tuesday.
The union said the reforms are "unwarranted and ill-considered, introduce chaos... exposing tens of thousands of teachers to losing their jobs.”
A strike could take place in March, the PAP agency reported.
Polish MPs last week gave the green light to reforms which include abolishing lower secondary schools.
The changes are expected to start to come into effect when the new school year starts on 1 September.
The head of the Polish Teachers’ Union, Sławomir Broniarz, said it is demanding two steps from the government: a motion in parliament to withdraw laws introducing school reforms and more funding for education.
Under the reforms, Poland will return to a previous system of eight-year elementary school followed by either five-year technical school or four-year high school.
The current system, which comprises a six-year elementary school, three-year lower secondary school and three-year high-school, was introduced 17 years ago.
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 6, 2017 15:22:35 GMT 1
Possible schooling referendum may spell trouble for Polish gov’t: report
05.01.2017 13:58
A referendum, which may be called to stop a planned reform to schools, may be problematic for the Law and Justice (PiS) government, the Gazeta Wyborcza daily has said.
Polish President Andrzej Duda has until 9 January to sign the reform into law or to veto it, sending it back to the Sejm, Poland’s lower house of parliament, for review.
The political website wPolityce.pl claims that Duda is considering the veto option, however PiS caucus leader Ryszard Terlecki denied this.
While a 50 percent majority was required to pass the bill through parliament the first time, overturning Duda’s veto would take a 60 percent majority.
However, PiS holds 51 percent of seats in parliament, while MPs from opposition grouping Kukiz ’15, which is the government’s closest ally in the Sejm, have in past said that they would want the education reform to be determined in a referendum.
Meanwhile, the Polish Teacher’s Union could also elicit a referendum if it gets the support of 500,000 citizens.
Last year the union collected some 250,000 signatures on a petition against the reform.
The government plans to reintroduce in September a system of eight-year elementary school followed with four year high- or five-year vocational-school.
It is to replace a current system of six-year primary, three-year middle- and three year-high school system, which was introduced in 1999.
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 8, 2017 22:09:12 GMT 1
Polish teachers on strike
31.03.2017 09:00
Teachers unhappy at government plans for sweeping education reforms held strikes across Poland on Friday.
The head of the Polish Teachers’ Union (ZNP), Sławomir Broniarz, said, citing preliminary estimates, that 37 percent of schools and nurseries - around 6,500 in total -took part in the strike. But the education ministry said only 11 percent of schools took part.
The ZNP is Poland’s biggest teachers’ union, with some 240,000 members.
The union is demanding assurances that until 2022 neither teachers nor other school employees will be made redundant, and that their pay will not be cut. They also want a salary hike.
Prime Minister Beata Szydło told Polish Radio: “Political demands cannot be implemented at the expense of children.” She added: “The strike organizers, the heads of the union, are politically engaged.”
Deputy education minister Marzena Machałek claimed the "absolute" majority of teachers and parents do not support the strike.
She said that plans for pay rises for teachers would be unveiled in April, adding that teachers would be "satisfied".
Public broadcaster TVP reported that many schools support education reforms introduced by the government.
Polish MPs gave the green light to wide-ranging changes in education late last year.
Under a new law, as of 1 September, students will attend eight years of primary school and four years of high school or five years of vocational school.
This will replace a system of six-year primary school, three-year middle school and three-year high school.
Last year, thousands of teachers and parents took to the streets in protest amid concerns that a new curriculum had not been set and fears that the reforms could see tens of thousands of teachers lose their jobs.
However, Prime Minister Szydło has promised that no teachers would be out of work because of the changes. (pk)
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 10, 2017 23:30:28 GMT 1
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Post by jeanne on Jun 10, 2017 23:45:06 GMT 1
How long until there is another election??? |
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