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Post by valpomike on Mar 8, 2011 0:45:22 GMT 1
Remember, God said Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Is still think they should keep to themselfs, and not try and push there ways on others. I also think this is a choice, not a birth thing. This is what they want, so let them have it, behind closed doors.
Mike
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glee ♥
Just born
XOXOXO
Posts: 138
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Post by glee ♥ on May 17, 2011 19:09:42 GMT 1
I'm not sure what I think about gay. I'm tolerant I don't mind it all. But if there ask me waht about marriage between two guys or adopting children I wouldn't know what to say. It will be hard for me to decide. I agree that children would be confused.
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Post by pjotr on May 17, 2011 20:04:10 GMT 1
Mike, There are differances between countrees, societies, cultures and peoples. In the Netherlands Gays and Lesbians have the right to marry. The Netherlands is mainly a secular-humanist country, a liberal society in which the influence of the Roman-Catholic and Protestant churches and faith is less big than in for instance the more conservative USA and Poland. I studied at the art academy in Arnhem, and there are a lot of Gays and Lesbians in the fine arts and in the cultural world. There are a lot of Gay and Lesbian artist; painters, sculpturists, graphic artists, photographers, fashion designers, drawers, graphical designers, theatre people, art directors, the advertisement industry, creative directors, moviemakers, the art pop music scene and in the dance world (choreographers, ballet dancers and modern dancers). Next to that you have a lot of Gays and Lesbians in the press and media, showbusiness, Musicals and Cabaret, the music scene, education, and creative economy, horeca and the entertainment industry. You have gays who are visible as Queer, f*g**t or Sissy and attract attention towards themselves and often get negative reactions from hetrosexuals, Gays and bisexuals, because most men doesn't like a feminine or androgyne man. I think, leave them alone, variety is the spice of life. These people don't harm anybody, they are just a little bit weird, get attention and are theatrical. In Amsterdam and Arnhem I knew some of the best clubs or parties which were Gay and attracted hetrosexual people too. I think it was due to the diversity, extravaganza, " Open minded atmopshere", drag queens (homosexual transvestites) less agression (violence than in hetrosexual café's and discotheques) and their subculture, that Gay discotheques and bars attract a wide audience. I have some Gays and lesbians in my cirlce of friends, as colleages and as former class mates and girls who were at my art academy. Don't get me wrong, also in the art and cultural world the majority is straight (hetrosexual), because hetrosexuals are 90% of the population and Gays and Lesbians are only 10 % of the people. Gays and Lesbians are always a minority in every society. In know a few Gay and Lesbian couples which are married. They are normal people and most of the people I know do not have children. Some of them in the past had hetrosexual relationships, had children in that relationship, divorced and started a new life after "comming out of the closet". One of my best friends is a photographer, he took some images of young Poles, Piotr Kutyła and Damian Wójcik, who came to visit the Netherlands to work, and stayed with a mutual friend of ours (who happens to be straight, and photographer too). But these young Poles visited my gay friend in Amsterdam, to see the city. He did not talk about his sexual orientation, because that is not important. He is not scarry, he is a serious photographer. rienktoorman.com/rienk_toorman/02.htmlrienktoorman.com/rienk_toorman/03.htmlPieter |
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Post by valpomike on May 17, 2011 20:17:11 GMT 1
I still think that gay's is a choice thing, not by being born this way. They have must all the rights we have, but they want more. I don't think they should raise children, it would be a hardship on the children. Do you know anyone who was raised by gay parents? I don't. My sister's child is gay, but he never tries, as many do, try and push this thinkings on others, and keep this to him self.
Mike
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Post by pjotr on May 17, 2011 20:27:20 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on May 17, 2011 20:37:55 GMT 1
I still think that gay's is a choice thing, not by being born this way. They have must all the rights we have, but they want more. I don't think they should raise children, it would be a hardship on the children. Do you know anyone who was raised by gay parents? I don't. My sister's child is gay, but he never tries, as many do, try and push this thinkings on others, and keep this to him self. Mike Mike, I know gays and lesbians who don't like the political gay activism, Gay Parades, Gay militancy, they are moderate, want to keep their sexual orientation private, and consider other more radical and extravagant Gays and lesbians as provocative, self inflicting violence seekers and anoying. Like in the hetrosexual world these people are conservative or modest. Other Gays and lesbians do not have a problem with the political activism and Gay politics and culture. Most hetrosexuals aren't bothered by the Gays and lesbians. The gays and lesbians don't cause trouble. Most people that cause troube are native Dutch and migrant hetrosexuals. But ofcourse you have Gay and Lesbian troublemakers, criminals, murderers, corrupt people and bad people too. ;D They are just like people, human beings, hetrosexuals.  Pieter P.S.- I saw a blond litle girl of nine who has two fathers on Dutch television. She was a little bit shy, but confessed she did'nt told other kids at school she has two daddies. She was afraid to be differant and that other kids would pick on her, because most kids (all kids) had/have a father and a mother. |
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
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Post by uncltim on May 17, 2011 21:27:01 GMT 1
Having been the "Man of honor" at my gay brothers wedding, I find that most gays are decent enough people to deal with. I still consider it to be sexually deviant, and immoral by my faith, but true tolerance and love of my fellow humanity forbids me to act out against it. My brothers partner was horrified by my non-PC opinions about many things at first. He has come to understand me and knows my heart. When I visit my brother, we have a great time with his gay and lesbian friends.
I'm going to introduce you to a term you have never heard before, "Hetrophobic". I would like to think that my brother and I invented it, but thats unlikely. Because the homosexual community tends to feed off itself and their victim mentality is highly developed, there exists a percentage of hetrophobic elements within my brothers circle at any given time. Because he is a reasonable man (his partner has become reasonable over the years) he despises these people. That's where the fun starts. He and his longtime friends enjoy nothing more than watching me debate and expose these people. It all ends up pretty well, but the "treatment" can get ugly at times. Lesbians usually try to physically confront me at some point in the discussion but years of training and some amateur MMA fights provide me with the ability to control the situation without damaging anyone. I guess my point is this. Tolerance is a two way street. I expect and demand the same respect that you do. Your minority status is not a license to dominate and dictate the discussion.
Several times I considered erasing this post and moving on, I suspect I'll regret posting it.
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Post by pjotr on May 17, 2011 23:57:03 GMT 1
Having been the "Man of honor" at my gay brothers wedding, I find that most gays are decent enough people to deal with. I still consider it to be sexually deviant, and immoral by my faith, but true tolerance and love of my fellow humanity forbids me to act out against it. My brothers partner was horrified by my non-PC opinions about many things at first. He has come to understand me and knows my heart. When I visit my brother, we have a great time with his gay and lesbian friends. I'm going to introduce you to a term you have never heard before, "Hetrophobic". I would like to think that my brother and I invented it, but thats unlikely. Because the homosexual community tends to feed off itself and their victim mentality is highly developed, there exists a percentage of hetrophobic elements within my brothers circle at any given time. Because he is a reasonable man (his partner has become reasonable over the years) he despises these people. That's where the fun starts. He and his longtime friends enjoy nothing more than watching me debate and expose these people. It all ends up pretty well, but the "treatment" can get ugly at times. Lesbians usually try to physically confront me at some point in the discussion but years of training and some amateur MMA fights provide me with the ability to control the situation without damaging anyone. I guess my point is this. Tolerance is a two way street. I expect and demand the same respect that you do. Your minority status is not a license to dominate and dictate the discussion. Several times I considered erasing this post and moving on, I suspect I'll regret posting it. Uncletim, I read your post with great amusement and sometimes a grin ( ;D ), because I can place myself in your position. Your brother is gay, and in my case, best friend is gay, the photographer I mentioned above here. We are very close, intimate (in a platonic and sometimes telepathic way) friends (like he is the brother I never had), but our sexual orientation and taste differ somewhat. It's simple, he likes guys and I like girls and women. There is a mutual understanding about that and that makes our friendship so strong and firm. I think he is becoming a great art photographer who lives 50-50, half in Amsterdam and half in New York. I did the speech at his first main art exhibition in Amsterdam, with his photographs of mainly black people in New York. That Hetrophobic attitude is part of what I call " Gay Nationalism" ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_nationalism ), a certain form of radicalism which was and is a reaction against homophobia. In itself it is as bad as homophobia, because it degrades a person towards a sexual orientation which is not favorable in the eyes of the perpetrator of Hetrophobia. I have experianced such judgements, remarks and attitudes in Gay bars and discotheques. But in the same time I knew that Gaybashing and agressive homophobia is very present too. I haven't got a lot of experiance with Gay vs Straight confrontations lately, because I mostly go to straight or mixed horeca. Most or many Gays and lesbians aren't recognisable, because they don't wear a pink triangle or carry the Gay Rainbow flag with them. Many of them, like my friend seldom visit a Gay bar. Actually a lot of them have more straight friends go to straight bars and clubs or have their private meetings or parties indoors. Hetrophobia is in my eyes equally irritating as homophobia, because it rejects a person or a group. I dislike Gays who are blunt to women or dislike women because they are women for instance. That is childish and rude behavior! I have no particular problems with Lesbians. I know quite a few nice d**es by the way. The only woman who ever asked me to dance was a lesbian woman. ;D Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by valpomike on May 18, 2011 2:41:48 GMT 1
So than you are GAY, I guess.
Mike
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Post by pjotr on May 18, 2011 16:37:18 GMT 1
So than you are GAY, I guess. Mike Mike, I am not Gay, because I can not fall in love with a man or have sexual intercourse with a man. I am physical and mental incapable of that. I am fond of women, attracted to women and only fell in love with girls and women during my life. I have had girlfriends and never had a boyfriend. Having Gay and lesbian friends and colleages is one thing, being Gay is another. I am not anti-Gay or homobhobic, that's for sure! In my day to day life homosexuality is not a topic, because most of the time I am surrounded and living in hetrosexual circles. And that is reasonable, because I am a hetrosexual myself. Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by tufta on May 18, 2011 17:36:15 GMT 1
New superstar is just being born in Poland in a popular programme. The boy is unbelieveably talented. And he's only 20! STUNNING. Notice sexy accent!  |
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glee ♥
Just born
XOXOXO
Posts: 138
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Post by glee ♥ on May 19, 2011 19:17:46 GMT 1
I daw Michał Szpak in the X Factor when he as singin Niemen's song. Really amazing voice. I'm not watching how he looks and what he wear. He has got incredible voice and it's really amazing.
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Post by valpomike on May 20, 2011 18:06:09 GMT 1
Gay may be O.K. if they keep this to themself, there life styles, and not try and push it on others.
Mike
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Post by pjotr on May 20, 2011 18:48:05 GMT 1
Gay may be O.K. if they keep this to themself, there life styles, and not try and push it on others. Mike Then we agree with eachoter! |
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glee ♥
Just born
XOXOXO
Posts: 138
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Post by glee ♥ on May 20, 2011 19:08:43 GMT 1
Yes, I don't like when someone tells me how I should behave and what I need to do. If someone want to change me it's bad. So I'm O.K that's gay are in our world.
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Post by pjotr on May 21, 2011 12:27:36 GMT 1
No person can be changed really. You are either straight (hetrosexual), bisexual or Gay/Lesbian/Transgender. By the way both hetrosexuals and homosexuals tend to be intolerant towards bisexuals. I have experianced that.  Label accuracyLike other queer sexualities, bisexuality has been heavily discriminated against; most of the discrimination has surrounded the application of the word " bisexual" and scrutiny of the bisexual identity as a whole. The belief that bisexuality does not exist is common in society, and stems from two views. In the heterosexist view, people are presumed to be attracted to the opposite sex and it is sometimes reasoned that only heterosexuality truly exists. In the monosexist view, people are either exclusively homosexual (gay/lesbian), exclusively heterosexual (straight), closeted homosexual people who wish to appear heterosexual, heterosexuals who are experimenting with their sexuality, or cannot be bisexual unless they are equally attracted to both sexes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphobia |
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Post by valpomike on May 21, 2011 18:34:07 GMT 1
Why do so many gay's try and change others. Let this be one own's choice. Just leave the others alone.
Mike
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Post by pjotr on May 21, 2011 19:32:53 GMT 1
Again we agree Mike, but in the same time straight people should leave Gays and Lesbians alone and not try to convert them to be hetrosexuals. People are as they are! You can't change them. A straight man can never be Gay and a Gay can never be straight!
That's my opinion!
Cheers,
Pieter
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glee ♥
Just born
XOXOXO
Posts: 138
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Post by glee ♥ on May 22, 2011 19:42:38 GMT 1
Yes, Pieter has a right. Sometimes we think to change Gays into us - heterosexual persons.
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2011 21:15:25 GMT 1
Glee,
Sometimes I don't understand the exitement or negative emotions around homosexuality, because we (hetrosexuals) are the majority and I don't think we are herassed, bothered or a target of mission of homosexuals. If a person don't like homosexuals and homosexuality one can lead a life in which ones ignores homosexuality, switch to another chanal if a homosexual topic is on tv and don't have contacts with homosexuals at all. That is a choice one can make in a democratic and free society.
Pieter
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glee ♥
Just born
XOXOXO
Posts: 138
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Post by glee ♥ on May 23, 2011 17:39:43 GMT 1
Yes you've got right. Everyone live like he just want. We can't forbid homosexualist's style of life. Also we - heterosexual people should live our lifes.
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Post by valpomike on May 23, 2011 18:24:31 GMT 1
But, like I said, in the past, just don't try and force, either side, thinking on others.
Mike
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glee ♥
Just born
XOXOXO
Posts: 138
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Post by glee ♥ on May 23, 2011 20:18:56 GMT 1
Of course. If someone wants to change, he or she can do it himself/herself.
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Post by vratislavian on Dec 10, 2011 23:11:19 GMT 1
"Is gay OK?"
Of course.
"Is being heterosexual OK?"
Given that most murders/acts of sexual abuse are done by heterosexuals, the jury is out on that one.
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 28, 2011 19:24:26 GMT 1
"Is gay OK?" Of course. "Is being heterosexual OK?" Given that most murders/acts of sexual abuse are done by heterosexuals, the jury is out on that one. That is heavy artillery, indeed. ;D ;D ;D ;D It is a short way to ask a fundamental question: is it OK to be human? |
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Post by jeanne on Jan 1, 2012 12:13:37 GMT 1
Given that most murders/acts of sexual abuse are done by heterosexuals, the jury is out on that one. Since heterosexuals are in the majority, or course most of everything, good or bad, will be committed by them...that makes sense according to the numbers! |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 1, 2012 20:49:55 GMT 1
Given that most murders/acts of sexual abuse are done by heterosexuals, the jury is out on that one. Since heterosexuals are in the majority, or course most of everything, good or bad, will be committed by them...that makes sense according to the numbers! ] Gosh, I forgot about statistics! Good point, Jeanne. |
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Post by pjotr on Jan 1, 2012 21:32:06 GMT 1
Since heterosexuals are in the majority, or course most of everything, good or bad, will be committed by them...that makes sense according to the numbers! ] Gosh, I forgot about statistics! Good point, Jeanne. Folks, I never understand the problems a homophobic section of the majority of Hetrosexuals has with Gays, since there are 90% hetrosexuals and 10% gays in eacht society. First, these let's say 5% gaymen give 5% less competition for hetrosexual women, in the case of the interested hetro men. Secondly, in our culture hetrosexualism dominates. On TV, in soaps, in advertisements, in church communities, in movies, in music and in the fine art paintings. Every now and then some people get very exited and angry at Gay parades in Moscow, Jerusalem and Belgrade. These tensions and riots give more attention to the phenomenon than if the media and press were silent about the Parades and there would not have been made so much fuz about. Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by pjotr on Jan 1, 2012 21:39:53 GMT 1
Friends,
A lof of dresses, suits, designed products, poetry, literature, art, musicals, movies and other cultural products hetrosexual people wear, buy, posess, watch, enjoy and see are made by homosexuals. For some reason (I don't know) a lot of Gays, Lesbians, Transgenders and Bisexuals are creative and artistic people. Part of the people on the art academy were Gay/Lesbian ( a minority too, but a larger minority then in society. Maybe 20% or 30% in some creative sectors like Fashion design, dance and fine arts. ). Because many Gay men and Lesbian women do not have children and have a double income, they often belong to a high income group who produces and consumes art and culture. There are businessmen and women amongst them, politicians, journalists, nurses and doctors (a lot of them work in healthcare, because they are for some reason very caring or social people) and a lot of them work in education and horeca too.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by vratislavian on Jan 16, 2012 22:40:32 GMT 1
jeanne, you are right. My point is rather that I take the Christian view that all people are capable of good or evil, no matter what their sexual orientation, their sex, their religion, their nationality.
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