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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 19:04:07 GMT 1
Ofcourse the Rightwing Populists, migrant haters, far right nationalists and ultra-conservative Eurosceptics on the European continent cheer and welcome this Brexit without having solutions to real political, financial, economical and social problems themselves. Like our Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, Marine Le Pen in France, Heinz-Christian Strache of the FPÖ in Austria, Matteo Salvini of the Northern Leage in Italy, Frauke Petry of Alternative für Deutschland in Germany, Tom Van Grieken of Flemish Interest (Vlaams Belang) in Belgium, Kristian Thulesen Dahl of the National conservative, Rightwing Populist, Eurosceptic and Danish nationalist Danish People's Party (Danish: Dansk Folkeparti, DF). Many young Brits consider the Brexit as disastrous for their future and the future of their children. Older Brits voted for Brexit and many lower educated Brits. Democracy has worked, but that doesn't says the democratic vote and the will of the majority is always the best solution, as the present Brexit victory in June 2016 and the NSDAP victory in Nazi German in 1933 show. Brexit is a great support to the rightwing Populist continental European far right. Wilders already called for a Nexit (the Dutch leaving the EU) in the Netherlands, talking about a Referendum about the Dutch membership of the EU. Marine Le Pen wants a Frexit, France leaving the EU too.  Geert Wilders, leader of the Dutch Freedom party, has pledged to make a referendum on EU membership a key issue in next year’s general election. Photograph: Laszlo Balogh/ReutersIn my opinio the EU has been a succesful political, financial-economical and social-cultural project in Europe for the past 70 years. The EU managed to maintain peace, communication and cooperation between former enemies (France and Germany), and the Erasmus student exchange program let many European students to study abroad and expand their horizon. The EU has been good for Poland. Do I have no criticism for the EU at all? Yes, I do. I believe that the EU could be more democratic, that the power of the European parlaiment should be larger, that the European parlaiment should function like a national parlaiment and control and criticize the European Commission and European President (Donald Tusk). The European Commission should be elected and thus chosen via a democratic proces. That isn't the case today. So criticism of the EU is ok, but a Brexit, Nexit or Frexit goes to far for me. |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 20:22:57 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 20:53:46 GMT 1
 Post-Brexit hate crimes target UK-based PolesUnknown perpetrators have smeared racist graffiti on the building of a Polish cultural center in London. The Polish-Cultural Center in London. Photo: WikipediaIn the early hours of Monday, graffiti saying “ F**k you, OMP,” and “ Go Home” was sprayed on the front entrance of the Polish Social and Cultural Association ( POSK) in Hammersmith. London’s Hammersmith district is home to a large Polish population. Police are treating the incident as a racially-motivated crime. The graffiti is believed to be linked to Britain’s vote to leave the EU.  On Twitter, the Labour MP for Hammersmith, Andy Slaughter, called the incident “ an outrageous act that disgusts not only me and the Polish community but everyone in Hammersmith & Fulham.” “ We are absolutely shocked,” the head of POSK, Joanna Młudzińska, told Polish news agency PAP. “ We hadn’t expected such a reaction in London, where many Poles have been living since World War II,” she said, adding that the Polish community in the British capital is “ well integrated and liked.”  Labour MP for Hammersmith, Andy Slaughter spoke out against the anti-Polish sentiment and vandalism in London. POSK chair Joanna MłudzińskaMany London-based Poles are pointing to an unprecedented spike in ethnic-based hate speech since Thursday’s Brexit vote. “ Many people complain about what they hear from Britons who tell Poles to go back home,,” one Polish shop assistant in Hammersmith told PAP. “ We fear that a witch hunt has begun,” she added. The slogans scrawled on the POSK building’s façade are the latest in a series of incidents targeting the Polish community after Britons opted to leave the European Union in last week’s referendum.   On Saturday, police launched an investigation in the town of Huntington, south-east England, where laminated cards reading “ Go home, Polish scum” and “ No more Polish Vermin” were delivered to local members of the Polish community on Friday morning. On Monday, Polish Ambassador to Great Britain Witold Sobków issued an official statement in response to the recent incidents. “ We are shocked and deeply concerned by the recent incidents of xenophobic abuse directed against the Polish community and other UK residents of migrant heritage,” Sobków said in the statement.  Racist flyers posted in homes of Eastern-Europeans in Cambridgeshire after Brexit vote Racist flyers posted in homes of Eastern-Europeans in Cambridgeshire after Brexit vote Polish Ambassador to Great Britain Witold Sobków“ At the same time, we would like to thank for all the messages of support and solidarity with the Polish community expressed by the British public,” he added. It is estimated that up to one million Poles live in Britain, the majority of whom emigrated there after Poland joined the European Union in 2004. The Polish community comprises the largest migrant population of EU nationals based in Britain. (aba) Source: PAP |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 21:37:09 GMT 1
 Polish father & son beaten up by thug shouting for them to go home in East London last night Polish father & son beaten up by thug shouting for them to go home in East London last night Polish father & son lie and sit next to eachother after being beaten up by a thug shouting for them to go home in East London last night |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 21:41:41 GMT 1
 This British woman posted this twitter message about the treatment of Poles in the UK after the Brexit.  ChannyAmos@channy_Amos I'm new to this so bear with me  Joined Twitter on October 2010 Disgusting RT @fionaand: Older woman on the 134 bus gleefully telling a young Polish woman and her baby to get off and get packing. Horrific.1:33 PM - 25 Jun 2016
159 159 Retweets 44 44 likes |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 21:46:57 GMT 1
Other twitter messages from the UK. Dr. M. Ali Abbasi @drmaliabbasiLast night a Sikh radiographer colleague of mine was told by a patient "shouldn't you be on a plane back to Pakistan? we voted you out" 😞 10:43 AM - 26 Jun 2016 2,780 2,780 Retweets 882 882 likes Dr Karen Bateson @karenjbatesonJust arrived at a 78% Muslim school. White man stood making victory signs at families walking past. This is the racism we have legitimised.10:23 AM - 24 Jun 2016 10,105 10,105 Retweets 6,367 6,367 likes  Over the weekend, right-wing and left-wing protesters faced off in Newcastle as the former called for the “repatriation” of immigrants. Neo-nazi stickers have gone up all around the Clyde and Glasgow Green in the last few days. German Nazi Sturmabteilung (SA) insignia |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 22:12:13 GMT 1
 Fencelt
@howgilb
Like Celtic, Springsteen and Celtic. Cambridge, ukThese cards have actually been put through letter boxes of Polish families in Huntingdon today. I could weep pic.twitter.com/P3maK1Vasf |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 22:15:27 GMT 1
 Sima Kotecha @sima_kotecha In utter shock: just been called p**i in my home town! Haven't heard that word here since the 80s..!RETWEETS
2.671
I-Like-It
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 22:18:35 GMT 1
 Candice C-Williams @candicec_WWhite man on my bus proudly refusing to give the empty seat next to him to anyone non-white. Is this how it's going to be now?5:08 PM - 26 Jun 2016 · Croydon, London, United Kingdom
1,519 1,519 Retweets 711 711 likes |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 22:20:06 GMT 1
 Rupert Evelyn @rupertevelynWiltshire Police investigating a "potentially racially-aggravated assault on a Polish woman in Salisbury on Friday"
5:32 PM - 27 Jun 2016 |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 27, 2016 22:21:13 GMT 1
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Post by jeanne on Jun 28, 2016 1:18:20 GMT 1
Pieter,
These postings were truly eye-opening for me. The press in the U.S. has not been looking at Brexit from this point of view...
Mostly they have been concentrating their reporting on the economic implications of the vote.
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Post by pjotr on Jun 28, 2016 9:01:07 GMT 1
Dear Jeanne, The position of the Polish Americans with their 10 million presence is less vulnerable as that of the Poles in the UK. The bad treatment of Poles as second class soldiers and civiliians already startend during the Second World War and in the Post war years. The UK is a hierarchical class-, culture-, and ethnical society, in which the upperclass of white Anglo-Saxon Anglican christians still rule. A society based on the wealth of the British Colonial empire and the class based society. The lower classes created the wealth of the upper middle and high classes by their cheap labour. (Being honest I have to say that you could say the same about the Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Portugese and German colonialism -Poland and Namibia for instance, as colonies of Prussia and the German empire- and Russian expansionism). The Poles in the UK are a large immigrant group. Some of them are British with Polish grandparents and parents in the UK, and thus British citizens with Polish ancestors, others are 100% Polish people who came directly from Poland and often have low paid or average jobs as manual laborers, construction workers, factory workers, agricultural workers, mechanics, employee's of shops and supermarkets and owners of Polish stores, shops, restaurants and pubs. They face hard core polonofobia, xenophobia, racism, discrimination and thus hatred, verbal- and physical abuse today. The climate has changed today after the Brexit last week. More than half of the population have turned their back to continental Europe. Continental Europeans and especially Central-and Eastern-Europeans are now the scapegoat for the frustrations, irritations, rage/anger and contempt of the British (read English) people. They hate their own political elite, Brussels (the EU) and immigrants from Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, former Yugoslavia (Croats, Serbs, Slovenians, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Kosovar Albanians and etc.). They hate the Pakistani's, the Indian Hindu's and Sikh people, and people of the West Indies (Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana), Asia (China, Korea, Vietnam and etc.) and Africa (Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Kenya, Zimbabwe, South-Africa and etc.). There is still a strong white Anglo-Saxon, Anglican Christian British feeling in the United Kingdom. A nearly tribal, Island, ethnic and cultural nationalism, based on ethnic (Anglo-Saxon), religious (the Anglican Church of Great-Britain -and especially England-) and historical elements. The Poles, black and colored British citizens and British-Muslims, Hindu's and colored Christians face discrimination and racism today, because of the exclusive British white Islanders mentality. And that is not only the English Defense Leage, Britain First or the BNP (British National Party), British Hooligans, Neo-Nazi's, Skin Heads and a bunch of White Trailer Trash. No unfortunately there are elements of it in the 'decent' English working class, middle class and highclass. These Brits want a pre-World War 2 United Kingdom back, a Victorian or Interbellum Great-Britain (1919-1939) without European immigrants, and colored immigrants from Africa, the Middle East, India, Pakistan, Jamaica and Nigeria. A white, Anglo-Saxon, Middle class Britain, with a good life for the White Anglo-Saxon Anglican christian English, Welsh and Northern-Irish Ulster Protestant (Loyalist Ulster) people. That exclusiveness, pure ethnic Britishness excludes Poles today and other people with an immigrant background unfortunately. Fact is that Scotland, Greater London and the Roman-Catholic Irish people of Northern Ireland voted against leaving the EU. But the majority of the Brits voted for Brexit. Pro-European young Brits, Scots, Londoners and Irish-British citizens of Northern-Ireland are very annoyed by this. Some Scots and Irish people of Northern-Ireland want independence now, meaning an Independent Scotland which remains in the EU and a Northern-Ireland which becomes part of Ireland. Some people in Northern Ireland fear a return to the times of the 'Troubles', when Nationalist Republican Irish militants, and Ulster Loyalist Protestants clashed and killed many people with shootings and bomb attacks. They fear a return of the violence of the IRA, Real IRA (also referred to as the New IRA),  Dead horses covered up and wrecked cars at the scene after an IRA bomb exploded as the Household Cavalry was passing, in Hyde Park, London  Armed militants in Belfast, Northern Ireland. Both Irish Nationalists and Ulster Protestant Loyalist militants looked like this Belfast's mural on Shankill Road. Ulster Loyalist Protestant territory. Anti-Irish, anti-Roman-Catholic and enemies of the IRA.More than 4 million people have signed a petition calling for a re-run of the EU referendum following Britain's vote for Brexit. The petition, set up by William Oliver Healey, states: " We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the Remain or Leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum.” Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 28, 2016 9:58:26 GMT 1
Dear Jeanne,
As a summer course English student in Oxford in July 1989 I faced some hostility and xenophobia in that lovely English city myself. We wanted to go out to a typical British pub, but the doormen of several pubs didn't want to allow us entrance, because we weren't British, English people. Finally we found some pub that allowed us in, but the fun was spoiled. I found out that Australians were more popular than us continental Europeans from abroad (the bar men shouted 'free round for the Aussies'). They had an anti-continental European and anti-alien (read foreigner) attitude. Therefor we went to local supermarkets and liquor stores to buy our own apple cider, Bristol beer, and wine. And I organized my first American party in an Oxford park on the shore of the Thames river. That was my first and last experience with British xenophobia. Maybe with my Slavic features (few Germanic traits from my Dutch side) I didn't look like a typical Englishman, meaning pale reddish skin color, blond or red hair and light blue eyes. My accent and French, Italian, Spanish and Japanese fellow student didn't help making us more British either. That there were very beautiful French, Spanish and Italian girls and young women amongst them didn't help either. In other European countries, certainly in the tolerant Netherlands of the eighties they would have been welcomed with open arms. We appreciate, Southern, Brunette, beauty. But those blunt Brits only wanted their own kind.
I have to say that I staid in a wonderful, hospitable, kind, warm, English host family in a suburb of Oxford out of the city center in a nice middle class and working class neighborhood. The man was a team leader in the Morris car factory, which still existed back then in 1989. I received wonderful typical English breakfasts, lunches (during weekends) and dinners there. They took me to their English Saturday weekend market, on some trips along the Thames river with lovely picnick's, they took me to their daughter and son in law who lived nearby and their neighbors. Very pleasant, nice, warm, hospitable people. And next to that I met and witnessed more very nice, polite, interested and thus good English people. It was 50-50 like with the Brexit. You had nice people and hostile or xenophobic people. The latter simply didn't like continental Europeans and non-Western immigrants. Fact is that one of the xenophobic doormen of one of the pubs was a black British man. He clearly disliked us, because we looked foreign and spoke English with foreign accents. So xenophobia has no colour. One of our companions was a black man from Ghana, a son of a wealthy businessman. He said that in his opinion Germany was less xenophobic than Great-Britain. Fact was that going out wasn't easy in Oxford for foreigners like us. So we made our own parties and picnick's in the park. Our education was in very beautiful old Oxford university college buildings.
I have to say that going out was more fun in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Poland, Italy, France and Denmark then Great-Britain. The British people are more to themselves and have that Islander mentality of being suspicious of strangers. I recognize that, because my first 20 years I spend on a Peninsula, which for more than thousand years had been an island, Walcheren in Zeeland. And the people over there had the same island mentality. People who have their own way of doing things, stubborn, pride, isolationist, island people. Like the Brits of the British Isles. So I wasn't shocked of sad, it just confirmed to me, their closed Island mentality, the mentality I knew so well from Zeeland.
So my opinion and emotions about the Brits are mixed. Of course I encountered English people elsewhere too. We had English neighbors next to my parents house in Zeeland. I had a British English English teacher from the United Kingdom in Highschool. I am thankful for that until today. In Amsterdam and Arnhem there are lot's of English tourist, soccer fans for international football matches (sometimes Hooligans amongst them, who clash with Dutch Hooligans, giving our Police forces a log of work, monitoring and combat), veterans and their families who visit the Market Garden remembrance ceremonies. British businessmen and other expats who work and live here. Due to the English neighbors and an English cleaning lady of my mom I understand the British mindset a little bit. In South Africa the partner of my brother in law is British too. I can get along with him fine as long as we don't discuss politics or soccer. I am not a soccer fan and therefor know little about soccer. As a Western-European you meet British people everywhere in Westen-Europe. especially on holiday in Southern-France, the Canary Islands (Tenerife is full of them), Belgium, Germany and etc. You have nice Brits and awful Brits. Unfortunately after Brexit we saw the ugly side of Britishness which targets Poles in the UK in their Polishness (being different, Slavic, Central-European, Roman-Catholic and etc.). The Anglican-Roman-Catholic rivalry for centuries might have to do with it? I hope that the heated climate and tensions may fade away and that The United Kingdom and Europe find a way to deal with echoer.
Despite some hostile, xenophobic experiences I look back at Oxford with great pleasure and warm feelings. I loved the atmosphere in that old English University city which has the oldest university in the English-speaking world and the world's second-oldest surviving university. When I watched
That weeks in Oxford have enriched my life and improved my English. Coming from an Anglophile family we were already BBC oriented, but having been there and studied, lived with these wonderful British guest family and having experienced the wonderful city and environment (surroundings) of Oxford (Oxfordshire landscapes) made my appreciation and connection to England stronger. Yet, I was and am critical about aspects of it. I remember that we had discussion/culture class in Oxford and one of the topics was a debate about British politics, Tories and Labour. It was fun to discuss that in an international class with French, Spanish, Italian, German and other students. My sister was there too. She stayed in another house, where an Englishman lived with his Yugoslavian wife. I got along very well with two French girls, Réjane and Magali from Toulouse, Southern France. Oxford had wonderful old churches, University college buildings, city houses and buildings, bridges, parks and again the landscape of the surrounding Oxfordshire countryside. The Oxford I stayed with me sometimes took me out of the city to that Oxfordshire landscape. I had to share my room with a young blond and blue eyed German boy. First I was somewhat uncomfortable with that presence, later I got used to it and we tolerated each other. For some reason we didn't became close and friends. We each went our own ways without hostility. Maybe cultural differences were to large back then. Later I got half-German (German mother and Dutch father) and full German friends, fellow students during studies in the Netherlands and sometimes colleagues and fellow artists. I don't know why I did't get along with that young German man. I loved the British breakfast with English eggs and bacon and beans. I loved their lunches and dinners too, and their hospitable attitude. They treated us as if we were their own family or friends. They were people who spoke in the Oxfordshire or Oxford peoples accent, being English working class people. There is a saying if an Englishman is a friend he is a friend for life.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Jun 28, 2016 11:09:27 GMT 1
I posted this video, because I see this young British, English woman as a sensitive, caring, human being, who dislikes the xenophobia, racism, hatred and aggression which is unleashed and directed at the Polish people, Baltic people, other Central-and Eastern-European people, Indian Hindu's, Sikhs and Muslims, Pakistani, and black Jamaicans and Nigerians. It's sad that fascism rears it's ugly head again in the form of British Populism and English Ultra-Nationalism. I don't agree and thus does not approve the title of the video: "Brexit: Idiot Liberal Meltdown'. I however approve the message of this sensible and humanistic woman, who speaks from her heart and is deeply ashamed of the racism and xenophobia of her compatriots. This is not her Great-Britain!
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Post by jeanne on Jun 29, 2016 15:18:01 GMT 1
Hi Pieter, Thanks for once again giving us the "inside view" of things happening in Europe. This has been tremendously helpful in my understanding of the situation in Britain. Beyond the politics of the issue and your posts, I have three brief comments: 1.) How fortunate you were to be able to study at Oxford if only for a summer...lucky you! I kind of have a mythical view of Oxford as being a beautiful, quiet, impeccably-landscaped place, steeped in an atmosphere of academic profundity...I don't know how accurate that view is, but other than the unpleasantness you described when attempting to go out on the town, your description pretty much enforces my view of the university!(I've read a bit about Blessed John Henry Newman and his work there...) 2.) Not really relevant to the discussion, but I have English blood; my maternal grandfather was born in England. My brother and his wife frequently vacation in the Cotswolds. He has researched my grandfather's place of birth and has found a tavern now takes the place of the house my grandfather was born in. Like I said, not really relevant to the discussion here! 3.) Regarding your words, "There is a saying if an Englishman is a friend he is a friend for life," I believe there is also a Polish saying, "Once a friend, always a friend," which doesn't seem to encompass the ethnic limitation in the saying... Jeanne |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 30, 2016 0:25:14 GMT 1
1.) How fortunate you were to be able to study at Oxford if only for a summer...lucky you! I kind of have a mythical view of Oxford as being a beautiful, quiet, impeccably-landscaped place, steeped in an atmosphere of academic profundity...I don't know how accurate that view is, but other than the unpleasantness you described when attempting to go out on the town, your description pretty much enforces my view of the university!(I've read a bit about Blessed John Henry Newman and his work there...) Despite some minor displeasures I have to let your mythical view of Oxford in tact. In our youthful, silly and incompetent ways we probably hadn't been selective enough to understand the difference between proper decent pubs, and working class pubs in which Oxfordshire dialect speaking English workers wanted to be amongst their own kind. They certainly didn't liked to be bothered by a strange kind of Continental European bourgeois (rich mans kids), strange accent speaking, eccentric looking aliens who dared to enter their pub. Just kidding Jeanne. I have to say; " Oxford enlarge was a beautiful, quiet, impeccably-landscaped place, steeped in an atmosphere of academic profundity." It was an angelic, romantic, wonderful place where I spend two lovely weeks in July 1989. I wished my sister and I wouldn't had been such spoiled and annoyed teenage kids, who didn't want to spend a month there. Afterwards we wished we had planned and paid for 'One month'. We thought back then, it is the summer, and our own Zeeland with the North sea, the Westerschelde and our Veerse Meer (Veerse lake) with their dunes, beaches, North sea water and lovely country side were our centre of the world. But it were 2 great weeks. The next year we made not the same mistake and went 1 month (july 1990) to Montpellier for a summer course French, and there we met two lovely Danish girls, Monica and Kira. We spend that month in Southern France with them. Had breakfast, lunch and dinner every day with them, went to the beach with them and went out to French bars and discotheques with them. We also went to French parties of some people of the organisation of our French course, and in doing so we entered a world of French bohemians, language teachers, and animators (people who gave French culture courses during our French language summer course in Montpellier). We stayed in the homes of French university students, whom rooms were vacant during the summer. So actually we lived for one month on a french university student campus. Oxford really improved my English and was the start of my international contacts. I sent postcards and letters for several years and received postcards and letters back from France, Spain, Austria and Germany, and I saw the french girls of Oxford back in Montpellier in 1990 and invited them to Amsterdam in 1991. And Réjane and Magali came to Amsterdam. And the Danish girls came to Amsterdam that summer too. So Oxford also had some social implications. I organised my first American party there and that was a success. Nicer than to go to an English pub, we had our own outside pub, with our own drinks and food at the river bank of the Thames next to some lovely old trees in a very romantic setting. We enjoyed ourselves very much. We were young and full of ideals, curiosity and lust for life. In the summer of 1994 I went to Lyon in France and spend one weekend in the student house of one of the French girls of Oxford, Réjane from Toulouse. After Montpellier me and my sister had contacts with the Danish girls for years. I went to Copenhagen in the summers of 1992 and 1994 to meet Monica and Kira again. I heard that one of the Spanish girls contacted my mother somewhere in the late nineties. From Montpellier I had also contact with a Dutch-Canadian girl with a Dutch father and Indian mother. We stayed in contact for years too. Oxford and Montpellier opened the world for me and connections to the world together with Amsterdam where I lived from 1990 until 1992. In Amsterdam I met people of many nationalities, cultures and with many languages too. It all enriched my life, and made me more cosmopolitan and interested in other cultures. 2.) Not really relevant to the discussion, but I have English blood; my maternal grandfather was born in England. My brother and his wife frequently vacation in the Cotswolds. He has researched my grandfather's place of birth and has found a tavern now takes the place of the house my grandfather was born in. Like I said, not really relevant to the discussion here! I like English people Jeanne, I really do, maybe because we had English neighbours in my childhood and teenage years in Zeeland. They were hospitable, warm, cosy and social people, like many Brits I have encountered in Great-Britain, continental Europe, South-Africa, the USA (New York and LA) and even Poland. You have good people and bad people in every nation. I like British people, but I don't like the Polonofobia of some of them. I don't like xenophobia and racism in general. But I know that there are a lot of Brits who aren't like that. In general I have had more positive than negative experiences with Brits in my life. That negative experiences in that Oxford pubs were minor incidents. I had more nice experiences and memories of Oxford than negative ones. You can be proud of that English blood. England is a great nation inside Great-Britain (the United Kingdom). I hope that they will manage to keep it together. I will still respect Great-Britain outside the EU and hope that it will be easy to get there. 3.) Regarding your words, "There is a saying if an Englishman is a friend he is a friend for life," I believe there is also a Polish saying, "Once a friend, always a friend," which doesn't seem to encompass the ethnic limitation in the saying... That is very true. If you meet a nice Englishman or a nice English couple and you become friends during a holiday or a trip, and you keep contact they can be great friends. Ofcourse that is the case with more nationalities. "Once a friend, always a friend," is also a Dutch saying. I think it comes from the bible. Proverbs 17:17New International Version (NIV)17 " A friend loves at all times,
and a brother is born for a time of adversity." Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by jeanne on Jun 30, 2016 20:27:17 GMT 1
Proverbs 17:17New International Version (NIV)17 " A friend loves at all times,
and a brother is born for a time of adversity." I should have known this saying would have its roots in scripture! Thanks again, Pieter, for giving us this "window" into Oxford and the ways the people there affected your life...quite interesting! It is so true that human nature is the same across all ethnic groups...there are good people and not-so-good people in every group. Too bad more people don't recognize that fact and stop believing in stereotypes and worse. Jeanne |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 30, 2016 21:21:25 GMT 1
Polish vermin grafitti is sad, indeed.
But I imagine that nearly a million Polish immigrants can make some Brits frustrated, especially that sometimes blue collar Polish workers work for lower wages, thus leaving natives unemployed.
In Poland Poles complain when Ukrainians are doing the same thing.
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 3, 2019 10:18:41 GMT 1
the xenophobia, racism, hatred and aggression which is unleashed and directed at the Polish people, Baltic people, other Central-and Eastern-European people, Indian Hindu's, Sikhs and Muslims, Pakistani, and black Jamaicans and Nigerians. It's sad that fascism rears it's ugly head again in the form of British Populism and English Ultra-Nationalism. I don't agree and thus does not approve the title of the video: " Brexit: Idiot Liberal Meltdown'. I however approve the message of this sensible and humanistic woman, who speaks from her heart and is deeply ashamed of the racism and xenophobia of her compatriots. This is not her Great-Britain! There are more decent Brits who see the problem. Read comments by a member of another forum: Dougpol polishforums.com/off-topic/poland-random-chat-74400/107/#msg1678915 |
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Post by pjotr on Mar 4, 2019 0:34:00 GMT 1
Bonobo,
Thank God we don't have this nationalistic flag waving in the Netherlands. But it is a fact that the leftwing Populist and rightwing populist nationalistic parties like the Socialist Party (= a leftwing populist and leftwing nationalist movement for the native Dutch workers, not for foreign workers; some sort of Dutch Samoobrona Rzeczpospolitej Polskiej), Geert Wilders Freedom Party (PVV; the Dutch Prawo i Sprawiedliwość) and Thierry Baudets Forum for Democracy (the Dutch Kukiz'15 and Solidarna Polska) are not central-European and Eastern-European workers friendly.
Their position is defending the native Dutch working class and middle class, being anti-Islam, Pro-Brexit (favoring a Nexit -the Netherlands stepping out of the EU, restoring border control, abandoning the Euro currency and restoring the old Dutch currency the Gulden -Guilders-), being anti-Political establishment (agains the political elite of the center left and center right Social Democrats, Democrats, christian democrats, green party and liberal conservatives. Especially against the Dutch government coalition parties) and against Central and Eastern-European migrant workers (Czechs, Poles, Slovaks, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians). These migrants are recognisable due to the number plates of their cars or vans and the fact that they speak Central-European or Eastern-European languages. Geert Wilders Freedom Party (PVV) and Thierry Baudets Forum for Democracy tend to be slightly Pro-Russian (Pro-Putin) and Pro-Donald Trump and Pro-Viktor Orbán of Hungary (the Hungarian prime minister is a friend of Vladimir Putin).
Like in England you have decent center right, center left and lefwing Dutch people who oppose xenophobia against these Central-Euroepans and Eastern-Europeans. And in contrast with these Socialist Party, Freedom Party (PVV) and Forum for Democracy people many employers, private people (who rent Poles for all kind of jobs inside, outside and around their house) are very content (happy) with their Polish full time and part time workers, colleagues and project workers.
Other people like the British guy in your example have a Polish partner (a Polish girlfriend, a Polish boyfriend, a Polish wife, a Polish husband) or Polish friends. Like I said before The Hague has a huge Polish community of 30 thousand people. The Hague has a population of 527,748 people. Thank god the anti-Polish climate is not that strong like in England. In the Netherlands the anti-Islam (anti-Muslim migrant; anti-Turkish and anti-Moroccan) climate is stronger and also the anti-coloured non-Western migrant climate (anti-African migrants, anti also coloured Afghan and Pakistani migrants, and anti-North African Berber and Arab migrants) and concern over the mass immigration of Syrian, Iraqi and other Arab migrants. People are really afraid that there might be Islamic state (Daesh), Al Nusra front (Jabhat Fatah al-Sham (Arabic: جبهة فتح الشام)) or Al Qaida cells amongst them. People fear that Islamic Salafist (Wahabi) Jihadi terrorist extremists have infiltrated the refugee mass, and therefor pose a long term threat to our West-European societies. Seen the recent attacks in Western-Europe (Spain, France, Great-Britain, Belgium, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands and Denmark) that is not an illogical reasoning.
Cheers,
Pieter
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