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Post by Bonobo on Jan 10, 2020 13:01:48 GMT 1
When I ask my students to create a piece of advice to a friend, family member or a stranger, most of them resort to: You must/have to..... because that is so common in the Polish culture to use this style even in banal contexts. Then I have to explain that most well-mannered Brits would consider it too strong and normally they advise others with : You should/ Why don`t you... etc, etc.
Funny - why is it so? I must think about it. I am considering the influence of religion on two nations.
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 15, 2020 21:41:32 GMT 1
Sounds like the difference is between insisting and asking. It's the age-old manners thing with Brits I think. I've noticed that Poles don't use 'please', 'sorry' etc to the same extent that we do. E.g, a Pole would say, 'pass the salt', whereas we would say, 'pass the salt please'. Brits are people-pleasers and apologists. We don't like to offend people. Poles are far more blunt and to the point than Brits. I quite like that though, because I'm quite direct in real life. I am considering the influence of religion on two nations. In what way? |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 18, 2020 22:14:56 GMT 1
Brits are people-pleasers and apologists. We don't like to offend people. Poles are far more blunt and to the point than Brits. I quite like that though, because I'm quite direct in real life. In what way? Yes, true. Then, I see I have adopted British culture through my job during these dozens years of teaching coz I always say please and thank you.  Blunt and straighforward sometimes verges on rudeness. In the following way: religious beliefs, especially Catholic ones so widespread in Poland require believers to lead a pious life without sin. Priests don`t hesitate to point out to people`s vices and faults and constantly remind them of the need to improve. And doing so, they never say please, but Follow the commandments at last or you will burn in Hell! instead. hahaha In result, people subconsciously adopt this style and use it in contact with others. In GB religion is no longer important, only about 15% people practise it. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 19, 2020 10:36:43 GMT 1
Blunt and straighforward sometimes verges on rudeness. It can appear that way to someone British, because of course, we all tend to judge on what we know. I would rather someone be direct than beat about the bush. they never say please, but Follow the commandments at last or you will burn in Hell! instead. hahaha In result, people subconsciously adopt this style and use it in contact with others. In GB religion is no longer important, only about 15% people practise it. I think this is more of a Catholic thing, the commandments are adhered to more so than with other branches of religion I think. Most of the religious people I know are Polish. I don't know anyone British who attends church, but I know a couple of people who say they are religious. Unfortunately, they are least christian people I know. religious beliefs, especially Catholic ones so widespread in Poland require believers to lead a pious life without sin. The problem I have with this is that quite often, priests do not practise what they preach. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 24, 2020 13:34:11 GMT 1
I think this is more of a Catholic thing, the commandments are adhered to more so than with other branches of religion I think. Most of the religious people I know are Polish. I don't know anyone British who attends church, but I know a couple of people who say they are religious. Unfortunately, they are least christian people I know. The problem I have with this is that quite often, priests do not practise what they preach. So, do you mean you agree to my suggestion about the influence of religion on language styles? Stop having problem. It has always been so, so we have had time to adopt. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 25, 2020 11:41:09 GMT 1
o you mean you agree to my suggestion about the influence of religion on language styles? Not necessarily. I don't think you can say categorically that this is due to the influence of religion, but it may have had some effect. Poles might simply be more direct in their approach. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 25, 2020 23:25:20 GMT 1
Not necessarily. I don't think you can say categorically that this is due to the influence of religion, but it may have had some effect. Yes, that was just a loose supposition. I need to do some serious research to corroborate it. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 26, 2020 10:00:28 GMT 1
I need to do some serious research to corroborate it It is interesting so carry on. Human nature is fascinating. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 26, 2020 20:25:28 GMT 1
It is interesting so carry on. Human nature is fascinating. But to understand it one needs heart rather than scientific glass and eye. Are you sure you want to deal with it? hahaha |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 26, 2020 20:46:27 GMT 1
But to understand it one needs heart rather than scientific glass and eye Or maybe both. BTW, do you mean a microscope? |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 26, 2020 20:58:31 GMT 1
But to understand it one needs heart rather than scientific glass and eye Or maybe both. BTW, do you mean a microscope? Well, I am not sure what Romantic poet Mickiewicz meant when using "glass and eye" comparison as opposite to "heart." Maybe a microscope, may just a magnifying glass. But the concept of both is a good one. How about using your heart first and then glas and eye? |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 26, 2020 21:27:59 GMT 1
How about using your heart first and then glas and eye? I have done that before and often regretted it. Now I am far more likely to use my head, not my heart. Or indeed, a glass and eye  |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 28, 2020 13:11:29 GMT 1
There are 6 tenses in the Polish language. English has about 17. This means the British are able to be more precise when using the language. I sometimes lack this linguistic precision in Poland coz I believe it strongly influences the daily life here - e..g, codes of law or even banal regulations are sometimes formulated in such an ambiguous way that when an unusual case appears, lawyers have a problem with interpreting it.
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Post by naukowiec on Feb 29, 2020 22:39:38 GMT 1
I hadn't really thought about that. Believe me, even if what you say is true, I can assure you that there is still much ambiguity in the English language. I once had a conversation with a Polish teacher about the English language. She insisted it wasn't a 'proper' language because in comparison to Polish, the language is too simplistic, there wasn't the depth to it that Polish language has. Her comments surprised me because she could barely speak English and had only just started learning it. I'm not saying she's wrong because the language indeed, is far more complex than English in terms of grammar, especially cases, but I'm not sure that's what she meant entirely. I thought it was about 12, but mot sure. To be fair, we don't use them that many of them in everyday converstaions, but obviously when learning English, one needs to know them all. |
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 2, 2020 15:20:07 GMT 1
Believe me, even if what you say is true, I can assure you that there is still much ambiguity in the English language. She insisted it wasn't a 'proper' language because in comparison to Polish, the language is too simplistic, there wasn't the depth to it that Polish language has. I thought it was about 12, but mot sure. To be fair, we don't use them that many of them in everyday converstaions, but obviously when learning English, one needs to know them all. To get rid of the slightest ambiguity completely, the language would need not 17 tenses but 30. She had no idea what she was talking about. Ignore her. 12 are basic tenses which can be used on their own in multiple situations. There are also rare tenses used only in certain structures, e..g, Future Perfect in the Past used in Conditional 3 sentences. |
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Post by pjotr on Mar 3, 2020 1:11:40 GMT 1
Folks,
I definately do believe religion influences language. Calvinism has a huge influence on the Dutch language via the Protestant bible from 1637.
The Statenvertaling (Dutch: [ˈstaːtən.vərˌtaːlɪŋ], States Translation) or Statenbijbel (States Bible) was the first translation of the Bible from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages into Dutch, ordered by the Synod of Dordrecht 1618 and financed by government of the Protestant Dutch Republic and first published in 1637.
The Polish grammer, orthography (spelling) and thus grammar is greatly influenced by latin, Roman grammar and Medieval Bohemian. There are a few tiny German and Dutch influences and a lot of Pan Slavic elements. In Scandinavia and Northern Germany the Lutheran faith has had some influence.
In the land of the Czechs the Hussite branch of Protesrantism had influence. French was the language for European aristocrats, diplomats and patricians (the merchant class of city civillians, the free citizens).
Spanish and French has had some influence in the Netherlands, just like German and English.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Mar 3, 2020 14:00:13 GMT 1
Bo,
Maybe in the Polish border regions with Kalingrad (Russian Federation), 🇷🇺 Lithuania, Belarus 🇧🇾 , the Ukraine 🇺🇦 , Slovakia 🇸🇰 , the Czech republic 🇨🇿 and Germany 🇩🇪 you will have Russian, Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Slovakian, Czech (Bohemian, Moravian), Austrian (Habsburgian), German (Prussian), Lemko, Russyn, Goral, Kashubian and Silesian (Western slavic identity with extremely heavy German influences) influences, dialects and regional languages.
Als young and older Poles who worked, studied and lived in the West will introduce Western European, British, American, Canadian, Dutch, Australian and other influences into the Polish linguistic, gramatical and street language world.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by naukowiec on Mar 3, 2020 22:31:34 GMT 1
the language would need not 17 tenses but 30 Then English learners would suffer as much with the grammar as Polish learners. Lol. She had no idea what she was talking about. Well, it takes a hell of a lot longer for a native Polish speaker to become fluent in their own language than it does a native English speaker with theirs. Such is the complexity of the Polish language. 12 are basic tenses which can be used on their own in multiple situations. There are also rare tenses used only in certain structures, e..g, Future Perfect in the Past used in Conditional 3 sentences. You would know better than me in this respect. I learned all this a long time ago now! |
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