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Post by tufta on Jun 17, 2009 18:59:40 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 17, 2009 21:40:10 GMT 1
Funny, I myself was thinking about starting a thread about Polish nationalists. It seems this one will suffice. As for the fascist arm greeting, this Italian footage isn`t so bad. Only 2 people perform it at the end of the song. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Polish nationalists also perform fascist gestures:    |
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Post by tufta on Jun 17, 2009 22:25:17 GMT 1
[ Funny, I myself was thinking about starting a thread about Polish nationalists. It seems this one will suffice. As for the fascist arm greeting, this Italian footage isn`t so bad. Only 2 people perform it at the end of the song. I am wholeheartedly with you. Tracing neo-nazi/faschists and communists is a must in Europe. The sad reality is the video presented two of the kind -the woman is a minster in Signore Berlusconi's government, the man is her father, a mayor of some town. I'm afraid our local ones didn't get that far yet... |
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Post by valpomike on Jun 18, 2009 2:11:25 GMT 1
This goes on all over the world, even here in the U.S.A.
I blame it on the schools, this is what they teach. A week minded student will follow a poor leader.
Mike
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Jun 18, 2009 5:12:15 GMT 1
Does Poland also have the AFA? I remember on the anniversary of the bombing of Dresden this year that 6000 nazis showed up and 10000 AFA members showed up! the AFA decided to fight with the cops. the nazis were the peaceful ones! I dont personally have a problem with "white pride".
I have a thread that I saved from a image board where some former AFA members and the general scum of the planet (me)had an extremely open conversation about this. Just ask and I will send it to you. It is far from appropriate to post on the open forum.
-Tim
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Post by tufta on Jun 18, 2009 10:40:32 GMT 1
Does Poland also have the AFA? I remember on the anniversary of the bombing of Dresden this year that 6000 nazis showed up and 10000 AFA members showed up! the AFA decided to fight with the cops. the nazis were the peaceful ones! I dont personally have a problem with "white pride". I have a thread that I saved from a image board where some former AFA members and the general scum of the planet (me)had an extremely open conversation about this. Just ask and I will send it to you. It is far from appropriate to post on the open forum. -Tim And, what 'white pride' assures that 'human pride' wouldn't assure? Tim, let's be aware tht in Poland the situation is diametrically different than in the USA. We have no outward white racism, or black racism as we are still almost racially monolithic. Also, we are not so PC-terrorized as some in the US are. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 18, 2009 20:54:12 GMT 1
Does Poland also have the AFA? -Tim American Federation of Astrologers?? Hmm, I don`t think we have it here.... But I may be wrong. This goes on all over the world, even here in the U.S.A. Yes, I watched Blues Brothers (first) !! FFF, fascists were called. Do you know what it means??? School? Teachers? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I agree though about psychological motivation to join fascists movement. It must either take a mentally weak person who longs for strong leadership (any Freudian explanation on people with such craving??) or a strong leader who desires power over others. |
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Post by locopolaco on Jun 18, 2009 21:28:43 GMT 1
or neither.. the could also be racist/bigoted or just plainly ultra nationalistic.
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Jun 19, 2009 1:04:35 GMT 1
I don't really understand why any type of pride in the white race seems to take place with Nazi symbology. That seems counter productive. Any people I've met who were members of these types of organizations really had nothing to do with the original Nazism in word or deed.
+++And, what 'white pride' assures that 'human pride' wouldn't assure?+++
The problem as I see it is this, White people are the only group or race that is not treated as a group or race. Here in the States we have all kinds of groups and organizations that are race based. they are all celebrated and encouraged by the government, even supported by tax dollars. The problem is that any group or organization who wanted to support exclusively white people would trigger an immediate and Pavlovian response from the media and government. (And -ironically-white people)
There is a huge double standard here.
Let me give an example of how things have changed where I live. In Dayton Ohio, the city passed several policies that encouraged it to do business with minority owned businesses.
That seems like a good idea right? Well, since the white people have slowly left Dayton for greener pastures, The blacks have pretty much taken over government here and become the majority of the population. Still sounds OK. Heres where it gets ugly. When some of the remaining white people realized they were now the minority, they wanted the "favored minority" status that the blacks had enjoyed. City hall came unglued! Late at night the city council held a policy review meeting and changed the policy terminology from "minority" to "people of color". The term "people of color" excludes only one race. There you have it, Institutionalized racism against white people.
I live in a very diverse place in Ohio. I work and live with people of all kinds and flavors. One thing I can tell you with great certainty is that they are not race neutral as you and I are expected to be. I have never in 43 years met a white person as racist as a some of the colored people I've met.
I hope that you will learn to worry more about what other groups think of you. and, what their ultimate goals are. Well meaning people have put their own kind into a very questionable future. At the very least, I hope that you will learn to recognize when you are being treated unfairly. It happens more than you think.
-Tim
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Jun 19, 2009 1:18:04 GMT 1
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Post by tufta on Jun 19, 2009 8:07:51 GMT 1
Tim, makes a lot of sense what you wrote. Yes I am aware of the institutionalized racism against white people in the US - like the infamous minimal 'quota' for the black people in eductational institutions. But the problem is that any 'white power' is treating evil with evil. Which is perpetuating evil. Also, inevitably, 'white power' is automatically connected in most minds with German nazism. And thus is in the lost position due to automatical massive criticism. It absolutely doesn't matter if the association is grounded or grounded - it is enough that it exists.
I think 'human power' is really better in fighting injustice, than underscoring racial differences. It is better to fight evil with truth - and teh truth IS we are all equal, although not the same.
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Jun 20, 2009 14:19:30 GMT 1
Tufta,
I agree. racial and gender neutrality is really the only long-term solution. Any power without opposition will become tyrannical at some point in the future.
-Tim
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Post by tufta on Jun 23, 2009 16:14:29 GMT 1
Far-right parties in the European Parliament Times Online www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6528429.ece
British National Party, UK (number of MEPs 2) No black members allowed, wants to outlaw mixed-race relationships, "racism" is part of human nature. Stop immigration, deport foreign criminals and introduce voluntary repatriation by paying legal immigrants to leave. Withdraw from EU, keep the pound.
Front National, France (3) End non-European immigration and stop payments to help family members to join migrants. Reintroduce the French franc. Give French people priority for jobs, social support and housing. Restore border controls and the death penalty. Renegotiate EU as a band of nation states, or hold referendum on leaving.
Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest), Belgium (2) Wants an independent Flemish state within the EU and tight rules on immigration. Foreigners who want to settle in Flanders should pass language and cultural tests in their own country first. Asylum-seekers should be sent to countries near their home country rather than accepted in Europe.
Jobbik (The Movement for a Better Hungary), Hungary (3) Wants the establishment of local gendarmerie in Hungary to protect the population against crime, and a special police unit for Gypsy crime. Has its own militia, the Hungarian Guard, of several thousand uniformed volunteers who have campaigned against “Roma criminality”. Its motto: “Hungary belongs to the Hungarians”.
Ataka (Attack), Bulgaria (2) Wants to outlaw the use of other languages in Bulgaria, opposes privatisation and foreign ownership. Volan Siderov, its leader, has campaigned against Turkish membership of the EU, saying: “If we sit and don’t work like Bulgarian patriots, one day they \ will conquer us indeed. They will annex whole regions.” Motto: “Let’s bring Bulgaria back to Bulgarians”.
Liga Nord (Northern League), Italy (9) Favours immigration from non-Muslim countries and supported legislation to make it a crime to be an illegal immigrant in Italy. Its leader, Umberto Bossi, has said that migrants heading for Italy should be “blown out of the water”.
Danish People’s Party, Denmark (2) Strict policies to restrict immigrants and refugees. Opposes “islamisation” and Turkey’s EU membership. Also against the euro and greater EU powers. Motto: “Give us Denmark back”.
Freedom Party, Netherlands (4) Wants to end immigration from non-Western countries, prevent new mosques being opened and opposes Turkey joining the EU. Its leader, Geert Wilders, is banned from Britain for his anti-Islamic rhetoric, likening the Koran to Hitler’s Mein Kampf.
Freedom Party, Austria (2) Anti-Islamic and opposed to Turkey joining the EU. Opposes EU controls over Austria and any increase in the country’s contribution to EU budget.
Greater Romanian Party, Romania (2) Wants to recreate the Kingdom of Romania to unite ethnic Romanians by taking land from Moldova and Ukraine. Strong rhetorical attacks on the Hungarian minority in Romania.
Slovak National Party, Slovakia (1) Anti-Gypsy and homophobic, also hostile to the country’s Hungarian minority |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 24, 2009 20:19:16 GMT 1
I can see sth interesting. Western nationalists are generally against all immigrants, without pointing to specific nationalities.
In Eastern Europe nationalists object to minorities withing a given country, especially Roma people, Hungarians and Turks.
It sounds much harsher when you say : You dirty Gypsy, get out of my country than You dirty immigrant, get out of my country.
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Post by tufta on Jun 24, 2009 21:08:02 GMT 1
I It sounds much harsher when you say : You dirty Gypsy, get out of my country than You dirty immigrant, get out of my country. Well said! |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 31, 2009 21:21:50 GMT 1
Pole fined for selling Mein Kampf
thenews.pl
22.10.2009
A book shop owner who sold Hitler's Mein Kampf has been sentenced to a fine of 7,500 (1,800 euro) by a court in the Poznan, western Poland.
Thirty nine year-old Wlodzimierz P., who owns an internet book shop, was selling Mein Kampf for five months – from November 2005 to March 2006 – without the right to do so. The book was a bestseller and brought in good profits.
The state of Bavaria, which holds copyright for the book, has demanded a year and a half imprisonment for Wlodzimierz P. but the court in Poznan decided that a high fine would be more suitable.
In May, a publisher of Mein Kampf, from the western city of Wroclaw was sentenced to three months in prison and a fine of 10,000 zloty (2,400 euro) for violating copyright laws.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 27, 2009 21:27:55 GMT 1
Extreme Pole
By Hilary Heuler
europeanvoice. com
19.11.2009
Micha³ Kamiñski is a Pole who can divide opinion across Europe.
When Micha³ Kamiñski was handed the leadership of the European Parliament's new European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR) group, it came as a surprise to nearly everyone, not least to Kamin´ski himself. The right-wing Polish MEP had been put forward in July as the anti-federalist group's official candidate to be one of the Parliament's vice-presidents, only to be beaten by Edward McMillan-Scott, a Briton who claimed to be standing because he was unhappy with the "lack of debate" surrounding a man who had "anti-Semitic, homophobic, nationalist links". Kamiñski was installed as head of the group as a compromise measure, an inauspicious way to begin a new Parliament's term.
But for Kamiñski the worst was yet to come. McMillan-Scott had been digging into his past, and what he found soon made its way into the public domain, sparking a ferocious debate in the UK. David Cameron's Conservative Party had left the European People's Party to help found the ECR and pundits and Labour politicians – notably Foreign Minister David Miliband – began questioning whether the Tories should really be in the same group as Kamiñski .
He's very cynical – he looks at politics as the art of getting what you want out of life
The Polish MEP faces a raft of charges, ranging from homophobia to sympathy with the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet, to whom Kamiñski presented an award in 1999. But most controversial have been the charges of anti-Semitism. Kamiñski publicly opposed the Polish state's official apology for the 1941 massacre in Jedwabne, a town in north-eastern Poland in which hundreds of Jews were killed by their neighbours. He was quoted at the time as saying: "If you are asking the Polish nation to apologise for the crime made in Jedwabne, you would require the whole Jewish nation to apologise for what some Jewish communists did in eastern Europe."
Kamiñski later claimed in an interview that he had simply argued against the gen-eralised nature of the apology, not recog-nition of the atrocity itself. But this incident – along with his brief member-ship in the 1980s of a neo-Nazi group called the National Revival of Poland (NOP), now a member of the European National Front – has prompted many commen-tators to brand him an anti-Semite.
Despite the media maelstrom in the UK, Kamiñski is not a particularly divisive character in his homeland. Born in War-saw in 1972, he has been involved in right-wing politics since he was a teenager, first joining the NOP, before becoming the youngest founding member of the Christ-ian National Union (ZChN) at the age of 17.
Kamiñski studied international relations and diplomacy at Warsaw University (a degree he never completed), then worked for several years as a journalist and radio producer for Catholic journals. But it was not long before he turned back to politics.
When, in 1997, the ZChN sent its first representatives to serve in the Polish parliament, the Sejm, 25-year-old Kamiñski was among them, elected from the district of Lomza, an area known for its conservative Catholicism.
It was not long before Kamiñski began to make his mark on the national stage as a skilful orator and savvy politician. "He's a populist, good at targeting his arguments at his electorate," says Elzbieta Kaca of the Warsaw-based Institute of Public Affairs, and in 1999 Kamiñski won an award from journalists for being the best speaker in the Sejm. He briefly joined the Right Alliance in 2001 before switching to the newly formed Law and Justice party (PiS). There he developed a close relationship with Lech Kaczyñski, then the mayor of Warsaw. "Kamiñski had a very good influence on Kamiñski," says Piotr Weiser of the Jewish Historical Institute. "Perhaps Kaczyñski showed him that nationalism and anti-Semitism don't lead anywhere."
Despite his visit to Pinochet and the debate over Jedwabne, Kamiñski became decidedly more moderate during his years in the Sejm. When PiS's star began to rise, he rose with it. As a national parliamentarian, he had an eye for choosing issues that would generate publicity. He worked his way onto the committees for foreign affairs and European integration, both of which afforded him ample opportunities to make his voice heard.
When Kamiñski was elected to his first term in the European Parliament in 2004, he built his reputation more on his political skills than on his policies, which were unremarkable – the only report he wrote was to advocate closer ties with Ukraine.
According to Kaca, Kamiñski was good at pulling other politicians into his camp, but he was never considered to be among Poland's most right-wing members.
Even in Brussels, Kamiñski was always focused on the home front. In 2005, he wrote political advertisments that helped Lech Kaczyñski secure Poland's presidency. Two years later, when Kaczyñski called Kam-in´ski back to serve as secretary of state responsible for media policy, he returned to Warsaw almost immediately. "The national scene is clearly more important to him," says Kaca. "He's very attached to the PiS. I don't really know why he went back to the European Parliament."
Kamiñski's power as head of the ECR is limited by the grouping's fractiousness. "Because he has to fight so much for the unity and public image of this group, he can't do much in the Parliament," says Piotr Kaczyñski of the Brussels-based Centre for European Policy Studies.
A married man with two young daughters, Kamiñski likes football, books and foreign languages (he claims to have taught himself English by covertly listening to BBC broadcasts during the communist years) and apparently has a taste for good things – one woman reports catching him in a Warsaw restaurant ordering himself three desserts.
McMillan-Scott describes Kamiñski as a "comedian", playing a role to get ahead. People around him tend to agree. "He's very smart, very ambitious, very goal-oriented, " says Bartosz Weglarczyk, foreign editor at the Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza, who knows Kamiñski personally. "I think he's very cynical – he looks at politics as the art of getting what you want out of life."
As for the charges of anti-Semitism, Weiser maintains that although Kamin´ski's position on the Jedwabne massacre was anti-Semitic (and was widely reported as such in the Polish media), he comes across today as a man of no particular ideology. "Kamiñski's only thought is success in elections, political posts and high offices," says Weiser. "He has no illusions."
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 12, 2010 21:49:49 GMT 1
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Post by valpomike on Nov 12, 2010 23:40:38 GMT 1
Looks to me, like a bunch of Pot smoking, drug using young people, who don't know better. Could this be the case?
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 13, 2010 20:44:40 GMT 1
Looks to me, like a bunch of Pot smoking, drug using young people, who don't know better. Could this be the case? Mike Which side do you mean? Nationalists or anti-fascist leftists? |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 15, 2010 18:35:25 GMT 1
I don't know, but looks like a good many of them.
Mike
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Post by pjotr on Nov 16, 2010 1:36:00 GMT 1
Neo-Nazi's in the Netherlands and Belgium. The Dutch and Flemish Nazi's have close links. The Dutch Neo-Nazi's also have close ties with the German far right NPD. Fortunately they are a marginal group, a very little minority. But they were dangerous in the past and present, due to their violence against foreigners, leftwing people and people who oppose them. Geert Wilders Rightwing Populist PVV is not Neo-Nazi, but the party attracts far right elements.
You see the Neo-Nazi movement Blood & Honour in Flanders and Holland
Dutch Neo-Nazi's demonstrating in my city Arnhem, januari 2010
Dutch Hitler lookalike, No joke
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Post by tufta on Nov 16, 2010 8:54:22 GMT 1
Pieter, I always wonder why in Western part of EU and in the USA the fascists or neo-fascists are alwayes called nazi or neo-nazi. In my understanding the nazists where only one group of fascists - namely German ones in the years 1933-1945. I have also notices that the far left in Poland is calling anything beyond centre-right ' facists'.
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Post by pjotr on Nov 17, 2010 1:57:45 GMT 1
Pieter, I always wonder why in Western part of EU and in the USA the fascists or neo-fascists are alwayes called nazi or neo-nazi. In my understanding the nazists where only one group of fascists - namely German ones in the years 1933-1945. I have also notices that the far left in Poland is calling anything beyond centre-right ' facists'. Tufta, I mention the far right fringe Neo-Nazi, because they use Nazi slogans, have a nazi ideology and actually have camouflaged their Nazi idenity due to prohibitions of Nazi symbols by the Dutch and German laws. They feel themselves connected to Hitlers NSDAP, the SA and SS and the German Wehrmacht of the second world war. They honour former Waffen SS fighters as their idols, and sell books about these men. They aren't allowed to use the Swastica for instance, and thats why they use German Rünen signs, the celtic cross in a way that it is recognisable as the "White Power" movement, which has clear Neo-Nazi roots. The PVV of Wilders isn't Neo-Nazi, but in the same time is rightwing to far right. Historical I also make a differance between Italian and Spanish fascism and Nazism, because it were differant ideologies. Hitlers movement was differant from Musolini's movement. They were allies, but that does not mean the Nazism and Fascism are the same. The movements I showed in the Dutch video's are linked to international (neo-) nazi movements like Combat 18, Blood & Honour, Voorpost (Dutch & Flemish movement with a branch in South-Africa) and Stormfront. Dutch Neo-Nazi leader from Arnhem speeches in front of his German nazi brothers and the German police. This idiot talks about the German territory in West-Poland which in his view should be returned to Germany. Pieter www.voorpost.org/pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_18 / en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_18pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krew_i_Honor / en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Honourpl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonazizm / en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazismpl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront / en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_%28website%29Dutch Neo-Nazi parties are: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Peoples-Union / www.nationalistischevolksbeweging.nl/logr.org/denhaag/category/kraken/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_Party_%28Netherlands%29en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_Democrats_%28Netherlands%29 |
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Post by tufta on Nov 17, 2010 8:37:53 GMT 1
There's a kind of overreadiness to call everyone right from centre-right 'nazi' (or fascists by Polish leftists). This is a major simplification and in a way it is diluting the meaning of the word . Even George Bush was compared to Hitler. Those people have no deep idea what the real historical nazist have done.
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Post by tufta on Nov 17, 2010 8:40:33 GMT 1
talks about the German territory in West-Poland which in his view should be returned to Germany. Imo this sole fact does not make them nazi yet. It makes them revanchists. |
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Nov 17, 2010 21:58:49 GMT 1
I tend to think of Nazis as Darwinian Socialists. Thats pretty far-left in my opinion. Am I missing something? I have a copy of Mein Kampf, it didn't seem right-wing to me at all. Perhaps my definitions are different than others..
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Post by pjotr on Nov 18, 2010 0:18:50 GMT 1
There's a kind of overreadiness to call everyone right from centre-right 'nazi' (or fascists by Polish leftists). This is a major simplification and in a way it is diluting the meaning of the word . Even George Bush was compared to Hitler. Those people have no deep idea what the real historical nazist have done. Tufta, The same is the case in the Netherlands. Geert Wilders and his PVV are called fascists! While they are rightwing, conservative-liberal nationalists! The PVV is not even close to fascism. It is islamophobe and wants to limitize immigration, but it is not racist, not corporatist, not worshipping violence and has no mass movement like the fascists did. It is a new Populist and rightwing movement with leftwing social elements in it, but it is not a fascist nor a Nazi movement. The terms fascist, Nazi, *Communist, *Socialist and *Stalinist has undergone inflation of value, and they are used to describe people or movements that are unpopular, hated or which have standpoint or positions which are not liked. *The terms communist, socialist and stalinist are used for people who aren't communist, socialists or stalinist, like the terms Nazi and fascist. (especially in America, with it's hysterical fear of socialism) The words lose meaning if they are used so often. My father said that years after the Second world war he opposed the anti-fascist movement in the Netherlands because it was a front organization of Communists and Communist propaganda. Capitalists, conservatives, Patriots and others were labeled fascist. Pieter |
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Post by tufta on Nov 18, 2010 8:09:05 GMT 1
Pieter and Uncltim - very well said imo!
The extremes have a common spot. I always imagine the spectrum of view points as a ring, the far right and far left are side by side on it.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 18, 2010 19:40:09 GMT 1
I tend to think of Nazis as Darwinian Socialists. Thats pretty far-left in my opinion. Am I missing something? I have a copy of Mein Kampf, it didn't seem right-wing to me at all. Perhaps my definitions are different than others.. After all, the system was also called National Socialism. |
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