Lousy teachers will stay

[Bonobo]

Currently I am a bit disenchated with my work. I have a tough problem at school with one crazy person who teaches biology in my class and does it in an incredibly stupid and unfair manner. I am the class master and I am virtually helpless because Polish school law protects lousy teachers like no other occupation in Poland.

That`s for an introduction.

What is the problem in general? It is the problem of people who make a living as teachers but are totally unprepared to work with young people.

It is mainly a result of low salary policy which prevailed in communist Poland after the WW2. The intelligentsia occupations such as teachers, doctors, engineers etc. were deliberately held in low esteem by communists. To such an extent that in 80s a cleaning lady working in school earned the same or more money that a teacher. today it is better but still far from ideal.

How did it influence the overall teaching human resources in the country? Greatly. If a person didn`t know what to do after finishing biology, maths, physics, history ect at the university, he/she enrolled a pedagogics course and became a teacher. An accidental teacher was born.

Today those accidental education workers still work in Polish schools.....

tbc

[Bonobo]

In result Polish schools are infested with teachers who are poorly prepared to work with modern youngsters. They don`t understand that the successful process of teaching requires from a teacher to be able to fascinate or at least interest students with the subject. Too many teachers can`t do it - their lessons are boring or too difficult, so students feel they are wasting their time in class.

Worse, some teachers make an impression they dislike their students and work. Those most sincere openly admit it to the class.

Some teachers are undereducated themselves. A real scandal erupted a few years ago when students made a recording of a primary school teacher who kept saying: Columbus was Polish! Columbus was Polish!

All this in view, the majority of Polish teachers are unable to get students` respect. An underpaid, undereducated teacher whose attitude to work is negative will never be a real educator. They can only be education workers but it doesn`t guarantee they will teach students how to cope with challenges of 21 century.


Can the dire situation be changed in any way?

tbc

[jeanne]

I just want to say that I agree with what you are saying. I believe that the ability to be an effective teacher is an inborn characteristic. Often times a school system will hire a person as a teacher based on their education (which is important) but do not pay any attention to how they connect with the kids in the class.
Someone with a Bachelor's degree may be a better teacher than someone with a Doctorate because they may have that innate quality which allows them to grab the kids' attention and get the point across. This quality is invaluable in a teacher.

[Bonobo]

Mar 20, 2008 2:39:28 GMT 1 jeanne said:

I just want to say that I agree with what you are saying. I believe that the ability to be an effective teacher is an inborn characteristic. Often times a school system will hire a person as a teacher based on their education (which is important) but do not pay any attention to how they connect with the kids in the class.
Someone with a Bachelor's degree may be a better teacher than someone with a Doctorate because they may have that innate quality which allows them to grab the kids' attention and get the point across. This quality is invaluable in a teacher.

You said once you work in an education institution so you know the problem from within.

Is it possible for a lousy teacher to find job in the USA?

I presume it is. Zou know, there are schools where nobody wants to teach because they are in a bad area and have bad students ect. What happens in such case? Do they hire ANY teacher there, to fill in vacancies, or do they still look at teacher`s references and choose best ones?

I started thinking about the American teaching system after seeing the last question on the Choose Your Candidate Quiz.
www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460

It is:

Education: Should teachers receive pay based on the performance of their students?
Yes
No
Sometimes

It struck me as I had thought that teachers in the USA had been paid for their students`good results long ago.

It also struck me that the topic of teachers appeared in this quiz at all. It looks as if the issue is a sore one.

[jeanne]

Mar 21, 2008 8:54:43 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

You said once you work in an education institution so you know the problem from within.

Is it possible for a lousy teacher to find job in the USA?

I presume it is. Zou know, there are schools where nobody wants to teach because they are in a bad area and have bad students ect. What happens in such case? Do they hire ANY teacher there, to fill in vacancies, or do they still look at teacher`s references and choose best ones?

I started thinking about the American teaching system after seeing the last question on the Choose Your Candidate Quiz.
www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460

It is:

Education: Should teachers receive pay based on the performance of their students?
Yes
No
Sometimes

It struck me as I had thought that teachers in the USA had been paid for their students`good results long ago.

It also struck me that the topic of teachers appeared in this quiz at all. It looks as if the issue is a sore one.

Yes, you are right when you say that this issue is a sore one.
It is not only sore, but it is complicated and many-faceted. One reason it is complicated is because each state makes it own education policies, except for certain policies mandated by the federal government, so nothing concerning education applies to all schools systems across the US.

Certain sectors of society are calling for 'accountability' as the measure of a teacher's salary, based on how well students perform. Teachers are generally against this policy. As the breakdown of the family in society has accelerated with many divorces, single parents and mothers working outside the home, the schools have been asked (demanded) to take on more responsibilities previously held only by parents. Certain areas that have a high percentage of these disadvantaged students from impoverished and/or broken families are extremely difficult areas in which to teach. Without support from home, students generally will never excel in their studies, no matter how wonderful their teachers are (with exceptions, of course). This situation would make it very difficult for a teacher working, say in an inner-city neighborhood, to make the same salary as a teacher working in
an affluent neighborhood where parents are supportive and also probably wealthy enough to give their children more advantages.
And, of course, the teacher with the inner-city students would be working much harder trying to deal with all the issues of these needy (needy both academically and materially) students. But because their students would never perform on standardized tests as well as their more advantaged counterparts, the teachers would never rise to the level of salary that their colleagues in an affluent area would.

There are also increasing stringent requirements for teachers to maintain their certification (at least in my state).

Morale among teachers is at a very low point now. Many are leaving the profession because of these increasing pressures and responsibilities. Working in the private business sector, they can make much more money (and without the headaches!)

Contributing to this low morale is an attitude, probably exacerbated by the media, that teachers have it 'easy.' They only work nine months of the year and have vacations at Christmas, in the spring, and also all holidays off which those in the private sector do not. No one takes into consideration all the extra hours outside of school teachers spend planning and correcting papers, etc. There is actually a popular saying which is heard frequently which discredits teachers horribly: "Those who can do; those who can't teach." I know the language of this might be difficult for you, but it basically means that people who are talented and can do something important go ahead and do it. Those without such talent choose to be a teacher because it is the only alternative for them... Are you starting to get a feel for why this is a sore subject?

[jeanne]

Oh, and I forgot to answer your question if a lousy teacher can get a job in the US. The answer is yes, they will be hired in areas that are difficult to teach in with difficult students. More talented teachers can go where the work environment is easier. There is a shortage of teachers because of the reasons I outlined.

[Bonobo]

It all sounds as an article about education in a Polish magazine, only translated into English. The problems are the same.

Mar 22, 2008 2:27:04 GMT 1 jeanne said:

And, of course, the teacher with the inner-city students would be working much harder trying to deal with all the issues of these needy (needy both academically and materially) students. But because their students would never perform on standardized tests as well as their more advantaged counterparts, the teachers would never rise to the level of salary that their colleagues in an affluent area would.

Yes, there are such difficult schools in Polish big cities too. Teenagers from block estates go to them.

Students who want to attend good high schools must do very well at final exams at the end of junior high school. The maximum limit of points is 200 and the best schools take students with 185. The rest go to non-elite ones.

Contributing to this low morale is an attitude, probably exacerbated by the media, that teachers have it 'easy.' They only work nine months of the year and have vacations at Christmas, in the spring, and also all holidays off which those in the private sector do not.

Whenever a school topic is raised somewhere in the Net, forums are full of such opinions.

No one takes into consideration all the extra hours outside of school teachers spend planning and correcting papers, etc. There is actually a popular saying which is heard frequently which discredits teachers horribly: "Those who can do; those who can't teach."

I tend to think so about 30% of Polish teachers. They are lousy good for nothings. hahahaha
Luckily, teachers still are respected in the society.

[valpomike]

Here in the U.S.A. the per cent amount could be higher than 30%. Many colleges mold minds of the young, and do it very poorly, or as they want to. Some of the ideas coming from the young are very strange, and they must come from many of the teachers.
I my time, we had great teachers, and if they were not, many of the parents and local leaders did something to change it, but not today.

[Bonobo]

Apr 14, 2008 15:44:07 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Here in the U.S.A. the per cent amount could be higher than 30%. Many colleges mold minds of the young, and do it very poorly, or as they want to. Some of the ideas coming from the young are very strange, and they must come from many of the teachers.
I my time, we had great teachers, and if they were not, many of the parents and local leaders did something to change it, but not today.

When can a teacher be good and respected? Mainly when he/she is considered an authority by students.

The problem is that today students are not easily impressed with authorities. It requires really special characteristics to become an authority in 21 century because generations of young people raised by TV first and then by computer and Internet have their own idols who are hardly ever connected with school, education, knowledge etc.

In the past it was easier to become a great authority for students because the knowledge required to work as a teacher was quite limited compared to nowadays. Currently this knowledge is so vast that it often happens that teachers themselves don`t know some things and are unable to explain them to students who like to ask questions to test their teachers.

[jeanne]

Apr 14, 2008 19:58:42 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

The problem is that today students are not easily impressed with authorities. It requires really special characteristics to become an authority in 21 century because generations of young people raised by TV first and then by computer and Internet have their own idols who are hardly ever connected with school, education, knowledge etc.

In the past it was easier to become a great authority for students because the knowledge required to work as a teacher was quite limited compared to nowadays. Currently this knowledge is so vast that it often happens that teachers themselves don`t know some things and are unable to explain them to students who like to ask questions to test their teachers.

I agree with all you say here...and many students have been raised to question authority. I have had 7 year olds say to me, "Why did you do that? Don't do it this way, do it like..." They do this not only regarding the course of a lesson but also concerning the disciplining of another child. It's unbelievable!

[Bonobo]

Apr 15, 2008 21:35:50 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Apr 14, 2008 19:58:42 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

The problem is that today students are not easily impressed with authorities. It requires really special characteristics to become an authority in 21 century because generations of young people raised by TV first and then by computer and Internet have their own idols who are hardly ever connected with school, education, knowledge etc.

In the past it was easier to become a great authority for students because the knowledge required to work as a teacher was quite limited compared to nowadays. Currently this knowledge is so vast that it often happens that teachers themselves don`t know some things and are unable to explain them to students who like to ask questions to test their teachers.

I agree with all you say here...and many students have been raised to question authority. I have had 7 year olds say to me, "Why did you do that? Don't do it this way, do it like..." They do this not only regarding the course of a lesson but also concerning the disciplining of another child. It's unbelievable!

Well, it is the issue of raising self confident children who are supposed to become confident adults.

Isn`t it considered an advisable way of bringing up children in the US?

Such kids can be unnerving at times, yes.

On the other hand, wouldn`t you like your own child, first as a kid, then as an adult, to be a self assured person who questions authorities and has his/her independent opinion? So that various scumbag politicians must get stuffed when they run into such voters, for example?

[valpomike]

Good children come from good families, and in most cases, with two parents. Many homes here, have just one, and many times, even if two, neither care. Our children and grandchildren, are our future, and we must care, and do all we can. My children turned out good, and now I am helping work with my grandchildren. This is our jobs.

[falkenberg]

Good topic.

FIRST of all, the root of all evil is total lack of classical education in Poland on a high school level.

Next. There are two types of university in Poland: state university and private university. If one is studying at the state university, do not pay, if at private, he does. State universities have usually prestige and one s obliged to pass exam to get there. Contrary, at many private universities, man only has to pay or firs year and he can feel a student. I hardly know anybody studying at proivate university, but I can serve with an example illustrating what students know. At Jagiellonian University, which is at least one of three best ones in Poland,I told my fellow student, that Dante of Algiers is most famous medieval poet of Arabic language. It was a kind of joke, since Dante z Algierii (of Algiers) and Dante Alighieri sound very similar in Poliah. I was sure she has some fun listening it. It was in Janury. Then... I was waiting for literature exam in June, when I heard unknown to me girl asking an another: "Have you read something of this Arabic poet Dante of Algiers? I was not able to find any his book in library".

Thats how it goes, alas. Mass eductaion makes mess education and produces fools. As are the pupils, so shall be the teachers.


Oh, and when I'm recalling fact that 15 years boys were reading Plato in Greek durin Second Polish Repubilc period, comparation with present makes me feel like dropping will to live.

[Bonobo]

Apr 16, 2008 6:14:29 GMT 1 falkenberg said:

Good topic.

FIRST of all, the root of all evil is total lack of classical education in Poland on a high school level.

By classical do you mean studying Greek and Latin? There are schools where some classes do such humanities subjects.

that Dante of Algiers is most famous medieval poet of Arabic language. It was a kind of joke, since Dante z Algierii (of Algiers) and Dante Alighieri sound very similar in Poliah. I was sure she has some fun listening it. It was in Janury. Then... I was waiting for literature exam in June, when I heard unknown to me girl asking an another: "Have you read something of this Arabic poet Dante of Algiers? I was not able to find any his book in library".
Thats how it goes, alas. Mass eductaion makes mess education and produces fools. As are the pupils, so shall be the teachers.

It`s like "Columbus was Polish" exclaimed by one primary school teacher.
Or a dialogue:
A: Who wrote Aesop`s Fables ?
B: Aesop.
A: Yes, I know, but who wrote them?

Oh, and when I'm recalling fact that 15 years boys were reading Plato in Greek durin Second Polish Repubilc period, comparation with present makes me feel like dropping will to live.

Mmm, they could read Plato, indeed. But, did they really understood what they were reading? Secondly, what influence did reading Plato have on their young minds?

[jeanne]

Apr 15, 2008 21:45:10 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Well, it is the issue of raising self confident children who are supposed to become confident adults.

Isn`t it considered an advisable way of bringing up children in the US?

Such kids can be unnerving at times, yes.

On the other hand, wouldn`t you like to be your own child, first as a kid, then as an adult, to be a self assured person who questions authorities and has his/her independent opinion? So that various scumbag politicians must get stuffed when they run into such voters, for example?

Yes, children here are raised to question authority and that is viewed as a good thing, but in the sense of questioning whether what the authorities are saying is moral, correct, etc. BUT, and this is a huge BUT, it is not the same thing to question a teacher or other authority figure who is trying to provide for the safety of children. For example, children running down halls in school at break-neck speed is not safe. And children who refuse to listen to adults telling them not to run, push, yell, etc. create an environment hostile to learning.

[Bonobo]

Apr 15, 2008 23:06:00 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Good children come from good families, and in most cases, with two parents. Many homes here, have just one, and many times, even if two, neither care. Our children and grandchildren, are our future, and we must care, and do all we can. My children turned out good, and now I am helping work with my grandchildren. This is our jobs.

That`s great.
Were you a strict father for your kids so that they turned out good?

[jeanne]

Apr 16, 2008 6:14:29 GMT 1 falkenberg said:

Next. There are two types of university in Poland: state university and private university. If one is studying at the state university, do not pay, if at private, he does. State universities have usually prestige and one s obliged to pass exam to get there. Contrary, at many private universities, man only has to pay or firs year and he can feel a student.

Kamil,

The exact opposite is true here in the USA. Private colleges are considered the most prestigious. They cost the most money and are the hardest to gain entrance to. State universities, (of which there are many good ones) cost less for the residents of the particular state and often times are not looked at as favorably as private schools. Private colleges do generally give more scholarship money to needy and well-qualified students, whereas public schools, because they cost less, do not tend to give as much scholarship money.

The quality of an education, of course, depends greatly on how much effort the student puts into it, regardless of where they attend.

[Bonobo]

Apr 16, 2008 20:59:25 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Yes, children here are raised to question authority and that is viewed as a good thing, but in the sense of questioning whether what the authorities are saying is moral, correct, etc. BUT, and this is a huge BUT, it is not the same thing to question a teacher or other authority figure who is trying to provide for the safety of children. For example, children running down halls in school at break-neck speed is not safe. And children who refuse to listen to adults telling them not to run, push, yell, etc. create an environment hostile to learning.

Unfortunately, we can`t seperate those two. Either we accept the fact that our children question authorities, and then it happens on moral or safety grounds, wherever, or we prevent our children do it and they will never question anything in their life.

Children are not able to distinguish different ways of questioning. They question all or nothing.

[jeanne]

Apr 16, 2008 21:09:55 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Apr 16, 2008 20:59:25 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Unfortunately, we can`t seperate those two. Either we accept the fact that our children question authorities, and then it happens on moral or safety grounds, wherever, or we prevent our children do it and they will never question anything in their life.

Children are not able to distinguish different ways of questioning. They question all or nothing.

I guess what I am saying is that children should maybe be taught discernment and respect. Discernment so that they know which authoritative directives are legitimate and respect so that they show respect for those morally legitimate authorities. A monumental task and possibly not realistic.

[Bonobo]

Louse teachers will stay....

The teachers went on strike. They demand a giant 50% pay rise. But don`t they realise that 30% of them are completely incompetent and unable to spread education in an effective way?

Before I tell you about cases of incompetence from my school, I will start with my oldest son`s elementary school. I have just come back home and my wife informed me about a brawl that took place in school today.

What is the problem? Pupils in grades 1-3 have so called integrated classes: Polish, Maths, basics of Science. The teacher is a 50 year old woman who isn`t too active. It is easier to tell what she doesn`t do with kids, though she should, than what she actually does. She doesn` t check kids` homework. She doesn`t do maths exercises on the board but orders one child to do them for the class. She doesn`t check students` copybooks and textbooks. She doesn`t call parents when there is something wrong with the child. She doesn`t look after kids while they run in the corridor during breaks.
She doesn`t do much at all.

What does she do? She takes atwo or three months off school every year.

The last leave was in May. There was a replacement. The new teacher proved that it is possible to do all those activities that the former didn`t. Parents were very glad and asked the principal if the new teacher could stay with this class.

What happened when the former teacher came back and learnt about it? Yesterday she called a few mothers whom she suspects of undermining her position at school . She abused them and told one of them, a doctor and medical teacher at the academy, that she had to take her son from school, immediately, on the next day!!!

The mother and her husband came to school with their son today. When they entered the classroom (normal thing in Polish elementary schools that parents see their kids to the very door), the teacher started shouting in the presence of all kids, she ordered the mother to get out of the classroom and take her son with her.

Fortunately, the mother behaved properly and asked the teacher to report to the principal together. The brawl that followed was heard in all school. Eventually, the principal convinced the teacher what fool she had been making of herself and she apologised to the mother.

The matter isn`t finished yet. There will be a meeting in June and the discussion/argument will continue.

That is the Polish school, my darlings.

Do you understand now why I didn`t go on strike?

[gigi]

May 30, 2008 21:20:41 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

The teachers went on strike. They demand a giant 50% pay rise. But don`t they realise that 30% of them are completely incompetent and unable to spread education in an effective way?

Have you noticed any similarities across the 30%? For example, is there any training that they have not had that other (more effective) teachers may have either received or actively pursued?

Before I tell you about cases of incompetence from my school, I will start with my oldest son`s elementary school. I have just come back home and my wife informed me about a brawl that took place in school today.

What is the problem? Pupils in grades 1-3 have so called integrated classes: Polish, Maths, basics of Science. The teacher is a 50 year old woman who isn`t too active. It is easier to tell what she doesn`t do with kids, though she should, than what she actually does. She doesn`t do maths exercises on the board but orders one child to do them for the class.

Is it possible that she is having the students do math exercises on the board to either help them become comfortable doing problems in front of the class or as a "test" to ensure that the student she selects really knows how to solve the problems?

She doesn` t check kids` homework. She doesn`t check students` copybooks and textbooks.

I think our sons are the same age. My son's teacher will sometimes have them correct their own homework (as a group) during class time. She also expects that parents will check over their child's homework before it is turned in. But it seems very odd that your son's teacher would not be checking over any of the students' work.

She doesn`t call parents when there is something wrong with the child.

That is not acceptable. Do you have what we call parent-teacher conferences where the parent(s) goes to the school either with or without the student and meets with the teacher to go over the student's academic progess and discuss any issues? This is often done around the time the written student progress reports are sent home.

What does she do? She takes atwo or three months off school every year. The last leave was in May. There was a replacement. The new teacher proved that it is possible to do all those activities that the former didn`t. Parents were very glad and asked the principal if the new teacher could stay with this class.

Just so I understand...she takes 2-3 months off throughout the year and she just had a leave in May and is now back to finish out the school year?

What happened when the former teacher came back and learnt about it? Yesterday she called a few mothers whom she suspects of undermining her position at school . She abused them and told one of them, a doctor and medical teacher at the academy, that she had to take her son from school, immediately, on the next day!!!

Very unprofessional! Also, why would she think that she had the authority to make such a statement?

The mother and her husband came to school with their son today. When they entered the classroom (normal thing in Polish elementary schools that parents see their kids to the very door), the teacher started shouting in the presence of all kids, she ordered the mother to get out of the classroom and take her son with her.

She sounds extremely unprofessional. It's her right to be upset, but she handled the situation very poorly. Could she have set a worse example of conflict resolution for the children?

Fortunately, the mother behaved properly and asked the teacher to report to the principal together. The brawl that followed was heard in all school. Eventually, the principal convinced the teacher what fool she had been making of herself and she apologised to the mother.

Well that's something, at least!

The matter isn`t finished yet. There will be a meeting in June and the discussion/argument will continue.

How much influence does the principal have in this situation? Have problems with this teacher been documented in the past? Is she protected by the union regardless of any documented performance issues? Hopefully all of the parents who have concerns will join together to try to resolve this in a way that will benefit the children.

That is the Polish school, my darlings.

Unfortunately we have similar problems with tenured teachers who do not perform well. For you it must be even more frustrating since you have to deal with it as both a parent AND a fellow teacher.

Do you understand now why I didn`t go on strike?

I understood before, but this example just makes your reasoning all the more clear.

[Bonobo]

May 31, 2008 2:54:18 GMT 1 gigi said:

Have you noticed any similarities across the 30%? For example, is there any training that they have not had that other (more effective) teachers may have either received or actively pursued?

It is not the mater of training in most cases. It is the general attitude of those teachers to their work. Teachers of subjects which are not deficit in Poland (only English teachers are deficit) always have a higher education, it is a must.

Training plays a role in case of English teachers. Because of the mentioned deficit, principals hire teachers without proper education, e.g., former Russian/French/ Biology/Society etc teachers who finished a special course. The difference between them and regular English teachers is visible.

Is it possible that she is having the students do math exercises on the board to either help them become comfortable doing problems in front of the class or as a "test" to ensure that the student she selects really knows how to solve the problems?

You can administer such encouragement exercise or test once or twice. But not all the time and not with the same pupil!

That is not acceptable. Do you have what we call parent-teacher conferences where the parent(s) goes to the school either with or without the student and meets with the teacher to go over the student's academic progess and discuss any issues? This is often done around the time the written student progress reports are sent home.

The case was about my son last year. After a swimming class he got some cramp in the neck. He couldn`t move it, and complained of the pain. The teacher didn`t call us, he had to stay in school all day with this aching neck, when we collected him in the afternoon she explained that was nothing special.

There are such conferences and they are laughing stock too. The teacher says : Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am really sorry but we have got only 15 minutes because I am in a hurry to my son`s school conference. Have you got any questions?


hahahahaha

Just so I understand...she takes 2-3 months off throughout the year and she just had a leave in May and is now back to finish out the school year?

Yes.

How much influence does the principal have in this situation? Have problems with this teacher been documented in the past? Is she protected by the union regardless of any documented performance issues? Hopefully all of the parents who have concerns will join together to try to resolve this in a way that will benefit the children.

The principal can`t fire her. She is protected by the Teacher Carta which says that after getting a contract from the school, the teacher would have to seriously breach the law to be suspended or fired.

Problems could have been documented but we don`t know about it.
She needn`t be protected by the union. If she didn`t do anything criminal, the Teacher Carta is enough.

Parents can`t do much now. They can`t make the principal fire the teacher. If she is replaced and moved to another class, she is ready to sue the school for mobbing. That is the case in my school - an incompetent English teacher took the case to court after she had been moved to teach in less specialised classes where her incompetence is not so destructive.

Unfortunately we have similar problems with tenured teachers who do not perform well. For you it must be even more frustrating since you have to deal with it as both a parent AND a fellow teacher.

Yes, it is very frustrating. There are black sheep in the job and they can`t be removed. Instead of being cleansed or taught a lesson, they dare to demand a pay rise for their lousy performance. That`s pathetic.

I can guarantee that after getting this pay rise, 50%, 100%, whatever, the lousy teachers will behave the same.

[Bonobo]

The circus continued...

You need an update on events in my son`s primary school.

In May kids went on " the green school" (a week trip to the mountains with classes in the morning). The teacher, who had been on 2.5 months health leave, came back to school and went with kids on the trip.
Fortunately, there was another teacher and one parent who took kids on foot excursions around the area, because their class teacher preferred to stay in the building all day long. During their stay the teacher called the "problematic" boy`s parents (the ones who she had had an argument with) and told them that their son snored at night and she couldn`t sleep (some kids and the teacher slept in a big room). She asked what she could do about it.
During one excursion certain girl got her shoes wet. On the next day there was another outing, so the teacher took the "problematic" boy`s new trainers and lent them to the big burly girl. The deed was benevolently christian, however, the trainers were a bit damaged (spread) by the girl`s big feet. So, the parents of the boy had a hard time.

In June there was a meeting, actually two. Parents, two principals, and the teacher. There was a big brawl again, and some parents attacked while 1/3 defended the teacher. The attackers reminded everybody of her major shortcomings, e.g., taking a few months`long health leave during the school year, favouring certain pupils and ignoring others, not checking pupils`homework or copybooks, using pupils as demostrators and lecturers of difficult material (maths!) at the blackboard, talking on the phone all lesson long.

Basically, all critical remarks could be summarised in one sentence: the teacher is lazy and shuns her duties for which she is paid.

The teacher defended herself but it was really pathetic. She denied all accusations, she implied that parents were lying (!!!), when a parent stood up and said something critical, she started attacking the parent`s kid instead of explaining herself. So, it all looked like a looney show. Polish proverb which illustrates it says: gadał dziad do obrazu. (the old man was talking to a picture).

Parents didn`t believe she could change anything and demanded her removal. The two principals took parents` side and admonished the teacher, however, they couldn`t remove her because there were also parents who defended the teacher. Those were parents whose kids were favoured - they had very good marks and positive comments on school reports, although their behaviur and learning was mediocre.

She started crying in the end, and promised she would improve her methods. However, it didn`t help, because a few parents decided to transfer their kids to a catholic school which is nearby. It is paid but parents don`t mind. One parent, my wife`s close friend, already transferred her boy, a few other parents were thinking about it. We were thinking abiut it too, actually I went to the catholic schol to enquire but they had already accepted too many kids........

Were thinking....

Yes, guys, something incredible has happened!!!

During the last conference at the end of school year (every school holds one) the teacher felt so unwell she had to leave and went to hospital. Afterwards she decided to take a year health leave because of heart problems. I can imagine that during the conference there was another brawl, this time between the teacher, other teachers and principals. Her case was certainly discussed in the conference room and the fact that already one kid had been moved from the class and a few other parents were preparing to do it, caused a little commotion among teachers. Nowadays schools fight for every pupil/students to get money refund from the Ministry of Education which generously rewards schools with many students. The teacher probably heard more critical words and felt uneasy.

The rumour my wife has brought says that the new teacher for their class will be the one who worked as replacement - the dynamic one, called Ann.

[gigi]

Jun 24, 2008 14:46:02 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

How about wear some earplugs??? ;D

She probably hadn`t predicted such a situation and wasn`t equipped with ear gear.... ;D

I'm not sure why she felt she had the right to loan the boy's shoes to another student. And by the way, what shoes did the boy wear?

She saw that the boy had two pairs of trainers so she borrowed one.

Who needs soap operas when the drama is so abundant at school???

Yes, my wife (she went to the meetings) was both disgusted and amused. Like by a soap opera...

I know that you have not been pleased with her as a teacher, but I hope that her health improves. Perhaps her health is one of the reasons why she has not been the most effective teacher, as physical ailments often affect body, mind, and spirit.

You are quite right. Age and health cause teachers to burn out... I have started getting the first symptoms of it

The rumour my wife has brought says that the new teacher for their class will be the one who worked as replacement - the dynamic one, called Ann.

I am sure that is good news to the 2/3 of the class who were hoping for a change.

And here is the greatest paradox of this story. Children like their old teacher!! They don`t want a new one! Why?
Because she didn`t demand. Because she didn`t check their homework. Because she generally didn`t care and kids could do what they wanted. But it is also true she didn`t shout at them like other teachers like to do.

And they don`t like the new teacher called Ann because she is more demanding, pedantic and picky.

So, the old teacher`s 1 year leave is good news for 2/3 parents and bad news for 100% children. Maybe except for Adrian, the problematic boy.

[franciszek]

Last week the Her Majesty The Queen visited a small award winning family dairy in my birth town which has 2 high schools the one next door to the dairy has 700 pupils 500 were not allowed to stand along the road as they had recently had detention or late home work the headmaster would make no comment to the local press who called it draconian and harsh.If i was the head i would be questioning the lack of discipline to such a high number of offenders.I attended this school and found most of the teachers would help the hard workers and the slackers were just allowed to do what they wanted.

www.longridgenews.co.uk/

[Bonobo]

Jul 5, 2008 13:58:47 GMT 1 franciszek said:

Last week the Her Majesty The Queen visited a small award winning family dairy in my birth town which has 2 high schools the one next door to the dairy has 700 pupils 500 were not allowed to stand along the road as they had recently had detention or late home work the headmaster would make no comment to the local press who called it draconian and harsh.If i was the head i would be questioning the lack of discipline to such a high number of offenders.I attended this school and found most of the teachers would help the hard workers and the slackers were just allowed to do what they wanted.

www.longridgenews.co.uk/

A very interesting case....

Jokingly: the Queen is probably disliked by two headteachers who prevented their students from seeing her...

Seriously: I see some similarities.

In England:
One angry parent who contacted the News claimed that 500 out of the 700 pupils at the school were affected by the ban - among them Longridge's own 'royalty', newly elected Longridge Field Day Queen Lucy Burn.
And another parent blasted the school for the decision, saying it was "very disturbing as detentions are given out...for very minor misdemeanors.''

It is the same in Poland, A student swears, smokes, drinks, cuts school, is rude to staff etc, and when he is punished by school authorities, the a parent appears, angry, blasting the school for overreaction.... Every day I hear my fellow teachers` complaints about such ignorant parents.

PS. BTW, where exactly does a detention take place in England? Is it at school or at home?

PS2.

In a letter she said the pupils had missed a "super opportunity'' and said most would not get another chance to see the Queen in their lifetimes.

Is it really such an exceptional affair to see the Queen in England? Doesn`t she ride in her carriage along London streets every day?

[gigi]

Jul 5, 2008 21:40:42 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Is it really such an exceptional affair to see the Queen in England? Doesn`t she ride in her carriage along London streets every day?

I traveled to England in 1995 with some friends and we saw the Queen (in her car) leaving Parliament. It was crazy to see how people mobbed the streets to catch a glimpse of her! A male friend of mine practically swooned when he saw her - and he is not the swooning type!

[Bonobo]

Jul 5, 2008 22:41:49 GMT 1 gigi said:

Jul 5, 2008 21:40:42 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Is it really such an exceptional affair to see the Queen in England? Doesn`t she ride in her carriage along London streets every day?

I traveled to England in 1995 with some friends and we saw the Queen (in her car) leaving Parliament. It was crazy to see how people mobbed the streets to catch a glimpse of her! A male friend of mine practically swooned when he saw her - and he is not the swooning type!

hahahaha amusing.... even hilarious.

Do Americans react in a similar fashion when they see President Bush ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ??

[franciszek]

Jul 5, 2008 21:40:42 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Jul 5, 2008 13:58:47 GMT 1 franciszek said:

Last week the Her Majesty The Queen visited a small award winning family dairy in my birth town which has 2 high schools the one next door to the dairy has 700 pupils 500 were not allowed to stand along the road as they had recently had detention or late home work the headmaster would make no comment to the local press who called it draconian and harsh.If i was the head i would be questioning the lack of discipline to such a high number of offenders.I attended this school and found most of the teachers would help the hard workers and the slackers were just allowed to do what they wanted.

www.longridgenews.co.uk/

A very interesting case....

Jokingly: the Queen is probably disliked by two headteachers who prevented their students from seeing her...

Seriously: I see some similarities.

In England:
One angry parent who contacted the News claimed that 500 out of the 700 pupils at the school were affected by the ban - among them Longridge's own 'royalty', newly elected Longridge Field Day Queen Lucy Burn.
And another parent blasted the school for the decision, saying it was "very disturbing as detentions are given out...for very minor misdemeanors.''

It is the same in Poland, A student swears, smokes, drinks, cuts school, is rude to staff etc, and when he is punished by school authorities, the a parent appears, angry, blasting the school for overreaction.... Every day I hear my fellow teachers` complaints about such ignorant parents.

PS. BTW, where exactly does a detention take place in England? Is it at school or at home?

PS2.

In a letter she said the pupils had missed a "super opportunity'' and said most would not get another chance to see the Queen in their lifetimes.

Is it really such an exceptional affair to see the Queen in England? Doesn`t she ride in her carriage along London streets every day?

Detention takes place in school after school hours at an arranged date.The queen uses the carriage very rarely and i think its only state occasions which is not often.The royal family is very much loved by the nation but there are a lot of anti royals most people want them because they see them as part of our heritage

[jeanne]

Jul 5, 2008 23:08:23 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Do Americans react in a similar fashion when they see President Bush ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ??

Some do...but your question reminds me of Pres. Bush's inauguration day for his second term. There was a protest arranged for during his inaugural parade. It was called 'Turn Your Back on Bush.' Many people lining the parage route turned their backs to Bush in protest as he rode by!