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Post by tufta on Nov 8, 2010 21:26:10 GMT 1
The advance of populist anti-Islamic forces in the liberal bastions of northern Europe - Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden - appears to reflect a betrayal of these societies’ renowned social tolerance. But there is a more subtle logic at work, continue www.opendemocracy.net/cas-mudde/intolerance-of-tolerant
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 3, 2011 19:48:17 GMT 1
The advance of populist anti-Islamic forces in the liberal bastions of northern Europe - Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden - appears to reflect a betrayal of these societies’ renowned social tolerance. But there is a more subtle logic at work, continue www.opendemocracy.net/cas-mudde/intolerance-of-tolerant Project Aladdin’ brings leading Muslims to Auschwitz 02.02.2011 07:11 Some 150 dignitaries from 40 countries came to Poland Tuesday under the wings of the Aladdin Project, which aims at “building bridges of knowledge between Jews and Muslims.”
Among the foreign delegation was former German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, Archbishop of Paris Andre Vingt-Trois, the Grand Mufti of Bosnia and Herzegovina Mustafa Ceric and former chief Rabbi of Israel Meir Lau accompanied Cardinal Stanisław Dziwisz from Poland.
Leaders such as the President of Senegal, Abdoulaye Wade, a patron of the project, rubbed shoulders with diplomats and academics from Turkey, Morocco, Pakistan, Jordan and Iraq. They were joined by rabbis and Holocaust survivors, as well as representatives from Christian states.
“Today’s visit to Auschwitz was part of the programme of activities and efforts to bring closer the Jewish and Islamic worlds,” said Jarosław Mensfelt, spokesman for the Auschwitz-Birkenau museum.
The Paris-based Project Aladdin, which co-organized the trip with UNESCO, was founded “to counter the falsification of history in the shape of Holocaust denial.”
One of the goals of the current trip was “to issue a universal appeal for peace and mutual respect,” and likewise an appeal against “Holocaust denial and all forms of racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, xenophobia and exclusion.”
The visit follows on from the 66th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz last week.
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Post by pjotr on Feb 5, 2011 0:28:29 GMT 1
The advance of populist anti-Islamic forces in the liberal bastions of northern Europe - Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden - appears to reflect a betrayal of these societies’ renowned social tolerance. But there is a more subtle logic at work, continue www.opendemocracy.net/cas-mudde/intolerance-of-tolerantTufta, It is an interesting article and I also read the comments. This week I was bussy with the provincial elections and I interviewed the chairwoman of the provincial branch of the rightwing Populist PVV (which by the way merges leftwing social ideas with rightwing Patriotic or Nationalistic views) next to christian-democratic and a social-liberal candidates. The PVV of Geert Wilders has a strange mix of free market ideas, socialist ideas which attract working class people (their electoral target, because mostly low educated and anti-establishment - anti-elite and anti-intelligentsia groups and people vote for them.). From one side the party wants to fight anti-semitism (It is Pro-Israeli, Pro-settlement, Pro- Avigdor Levi Lieberman), and from the other side is symply Islamophobe and xenophobe (the Netherlands for European white christians, jews and humanists). The movement is very strict organised, disciplined, closed (in fear of infiltration), ideological trained. But the party stil had difficulties with it's parlaimentarians, due to misconduct, criminal records and violent pasts. If it wins a lot of votes in the Provincial elections it will gain power through the Senate (" First Chamber of the States-General") is the upper house of the Dutch parliament, the States-General. ( * pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eerste_Kamer ) In the The House of Representatives (" Second Chamber of the States-General"), the lower house of the bicameral parliament of the Netherlands, the States-General the PVV has 24 of the 150 seats which are filled through elections using a party-list proportional representation. Cheers, Pieter * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_of_the_Netherlands
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Post by pjotr on Feb 5, 2011 12:21:53 GMT 1
RegionalismHere an add for the Independent Senate GroupI think I am going to vote for them in the Provincial elections in march. It is a vote for decentralization and regionalism next to the National interests which are taken care for in the National elections. We have four elections in the Netherlands, National (Parlaiment and government) elections, local elections (called Municipal elections in the Netherlands), provincial (regional) elections and the European elections. Net to that you have the *Water board elections (which is in fact the oldest Dutch democratic structure), but they have less to do with politics and more with watermanagement (a technocratic enginerings issue) * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_%28The_Netherlands%29The Independent Senate GroupThe Independent Senate Group (Dutch: Onafhankelijke Senaatsfractie, OSF) is a parliamentary party in the Dutch Senate with one senator, representing several provincial parties. The Dutch Senate is elected by the legislatures of the provinces. In 1995, several provincial parties and the Greens proposed their own list. Marten Bierman, who headed the list, was elected senator. In 1999, Bierman was re-elected. In 2003, Hendrik ten Hoeve became senator for the OSF. He had been member of the Frisian provinciale legislature for the Frisian Nationalist Fryske Nasjonale Partij. The main parties involved are the Frisian National Party, The Greens, the Party for the North, the Party New Limburg and the Brabant Party. Party for the North, for the provinces Friesland, Groningen and DrentheThe Frisian National Party (West Frisian: Frysk Nasjonale Partij; Dutch: Friese Nationale Partij) is a Frisian nationalist political party in the Netherlands. The FNP is mostly involved in Frisian politics. On the national level it is represented by one senator, the senator of the The Independent Senate Group. The Greens (De Groenen) are a Dutch deep green party, which has been of only marginal importance in Dutch politics, as it has never gained national representation on its own. (Not to be confused with GreenLeft.)The Brabant Party is a provincial political party in the Dutch province of Brabant.The Party New Limburg (Partij Nieuw Limburg) is a provincial political party in the Dutch province of Limburg.The Party for Zeeland (Partij voor Zeeland) is a provincial political party in the province of Zeeland in the Netherlands. It is one of the largest independent provincial political parties of the Netherlands, and arose through an alliance between the ZVP (Zeeuwsch Vlaamsche volkspartij) and a number of local municipal political parties.www.osf.nl/2000/osf-8-noord-holland-anders.htmlAdd of the party North Holland Differant in favor of ecological agriculture, a non pollutive way of agriculture: ( Tufta, you see a guy there you know, the former Provo Roel van Duyn, who inspired the Polish anarchistic Pomarańczowa Alternatywa pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomara%C5%84czowa_Alternatywa ) Livable Zuid-Holland (Leefbaar Zuid-Holland) is a Dutch provincial-level political party, whose aim is to represent the many local-level parties in provincial-level politics. The party's only representative is Lenneke van der Meer - since the 2003 elections, she has been the party's fractievoorzitter.
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Post by pjotr on Feb 5, 2011 13:07:05 GMT 1
Next to Regionalism Localism is strong in the Nertherlands My city for instance has two local city parties Pro Arnhem and Zuid Centraal (South Central)
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Post by pjotr on Feb 9, 2011 11:36:33 GMT 1
Tufta, Now I wil try to react on your article " The intolerance of the tolerant" which is maybe a little bit more easy for me than for Polish people, who do not know the reality of living in one of these countries Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden. I live in one of them and experiance what you call " The advance of populist anti-Islamic forces in the liberal bastions of northern Europe - Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden - appears to reflect a betrayal of these societies’ renowned social tolerance. But there is a more subtle logic at work." The advance of populist anti-Islamic forces in the liberal bastion the Netherlands surely appears to reflect a betrayal of these societies’ renowned social tolerance. In my liberal or moderate view the Islamophobia of Wilders and others goes to far, because it does not distinguish between a moderate, secularised, Muslim majority and the extremist Islamist minority amongst them. The largest problems are not with pious Muslims, but with secularised, drinking (alcohol), blowing (smokingsoft drugs) vandalist migrant youth from migrants from Muslim countries, who do not go to Mosque on Friday's or any other day of the week. This youth does not belong to Marocco or Turkey anymore, but are in the same time not totally (100% /integrated or assimilated) Dutch. The migrants often live in poor neighbourhoods with an indigioness population of working class and unemployed underclass (Low class). This combination is terryfying. My radio station is in such an area in the Southern part of Arnhem, below the Rhine river, in the neighbourhood Malburgen. I live in the Upper, Northern-Area of Arnhem in the Centre region of the city) in the neighbourhood Spijkerkwartier. I see the poverty, lack of education, civilization and life perspective in Malburgen every day. Last week for instance the local supermarket next to our radio station was robbed three times and a lunatic guy stabbed three people in front of that same supermarket. I do my shopping there on a daily basis. (After work). The people in the aria (Both native Dutch and migrant) are of the lowest levels of society. A neighbourhood with hard- and softdrugs related crimes, alcoholism, people with mental problems, abuse behind the doors (families, couples, isolated singles or elderly). Lack of integration and mass immigration have created ethnic zones in the South. Area's which do not look like an average Dutch provincial town, which Arnhem is in fact. You think you are in a North-African Ban Lieu (Subburb) of Paris or in an Asian area of Brighton. A neighbourhood with 160 nationalities. You see Maroccans, Iranians, Afghans, Somalians, Kurds, Turks, Chechens, Bosniaks, Nigerians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Surinamese, Antillians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Pakistani and Moluccans next to Spanish, Dutch, Polish, German and import Dutch people from other regions of the Netherlands there. The PVV has some support amongst the native Dutch in such neighbourhoods who do not like the fact that their neighbourhood has a majority of not native Arnhem and native Dutch people. Other people who do not speak their local Arnhem city dialect and have their Malburgen mentality. These Dutch natives listen to Dutch peoples music, are soccer fans of the local football club ( Vitesse), and do not understand their migrant neighbours and their culture. They often experiance that as a threat to their " old" lifestiles. Youth of MalburgenYouth of MalburgenThe Party for Freedom ( PVV) of Wilders like their Danish allie Pia Kjærsgaard is a supporter of a Dutch right-wing minority government since 2010. Pia Kjærsgaard, Danish rightwing Populist leaderGeert Wilders, Dutch rightwing Populist leaderIt is true that the " bastions of tolerance" the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden still to are among the most tolerant countries in Europe (and, by extension, the world). While the political debate toughened and the political climate and circumstances (structures, levels and systems) changed in the society the reality of every day life, civil society and the reality of a vibrant multi-cultural society did not change. We are a differant society then we were in the fiftees and sixtees. Islam, Hinduism and Non-Western christians, Buddhism and other religions and cultures are a reality over here. We are not like Poland with one dominant religion, culture or society. We have several societies in one, a pluriform, hetrogenious body, which territory is called the Netherlands. I believe that " we" (the Dutch, Danes and Swedes) are more " passively" than " actively" tolerant. Yes, we are most in favour of gay rights and gender equality. In fact we are less tolerant than the others (other Europeans and Americans) see us. Maybe there is a superficial mask or outer-layer of tolerance, but behind that lie dieper layers of language purism, difficult " Northern-European" social-structures (which include and exclude people), social etiquettes, social networks, which need norishment, training, experiance and roots to be internalised and lived through. Native Northern European people are born in these social environments with unwritten (invisible) social rules and codes, and have families who are rooted in that tradition with it's customs, habits, social laws, developments, value systems, sociology (and psychology on personal and family level), which is often hard to understand for people with a non-North-Western-European background. You could call it subtle discrimination, or soft (refined) exclusion. And yes it is true that the Dutch are among the most anti-Muslim people in Europe. Racism and Xenophobia exist with varieties like anti-semitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, intolerance towards christians (secular or atheist fundamentalism exists, it did not die with Communism unfortunately). Yes, “ former” bastions of tolerance in fact are still tolerant - but not toward Muslims. And yes, in this particular intolerance toward a religious group we Dutch and Danes outdo generally less tolerant other European countries. The Netherlands and Denmark have become among the most openly Islamophobic. I think it has to do with a couple of things: Economical crisis, global terrorism since 9-11, the political assasinations of Van Gogh and Fortuyn, uncontrolled mass immigration in the past and the changing climate from overly tolerant towards intolerance. 9-11Theo Van GoghPim FortuynMass immigration cartoonIt is a mix of Leftwing and Rightwing Populism, Nationalism, isolationalism, Regionalism, ethnocentrism and a small country complex. The logic of the argument is threefold: relating to nationalism, conformism, and tolerance itself.
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 9, 2011 19:00:37 GMT 1
The largest problems are not with pious Muslims, but with secularised, drinking (alcohol), blowing (smokingsoft drugs) vandalist migrant youth from migrants from Muslim countries, who do not go to Mosque on Friday's or any other day of the week. Yes, I agree, people who keep some faith, wherever it and they come from, are OK. Yes, they are nobody from nowhere. It is sad but true. I saw such districts in New York. Polish cities are still free of ghettos of poverty and crime, everything is still very mixed here. Fortunately or unfortunately?
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Post by pjotr on Feb 9, 2011 20:04:29 GMT 1
Fortunately, if you have the right mix of a native majority and a migrant minoroty!
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 9, 2011 20:22:42 GMT 1
Fortunately, if you have the right mix of a native majority and a migrant minoroty! We have no significant minorities yet. What I meant was the mixture of the majority of decent people and minority of thugs living in one area.
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Post by pjotr on Feb 9, 2011 20:24:31 GMT 1
The largest problems are not with pious Muslims, but with secularised, drinking (alcohol), blowing (smokingsoft drugs) vandalist migrant youth from migrants from Muslim countries, who do not go to Mosque on Friday's or any other day of the week. Yes, I agree, people who keep some faith, wherever it and they come from, are OK. Bonobo, I don't know if people who keep some fiath or who are religious are better or less criminal, vandalistic, political extreme than the secular-humanist, atheist or Agnostic people? You have hypocritical, ambivallent or opportunistic Christians, Muslims, Hindu's and even Buddhists? Some secular people take a value system, morality and a sense of what is good and wrong from a non-religtious Humanistic philosophy or ideology. Their morality is equal to that of Catholics and Protestants. You have to judge every individual, ideology, faith community and group on it's merits, actions and stance. Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Feb 9, 2011 20:40:06 GMT 1
Fortunately, if you have the right mix of a native majority and a migrant minoroty! We have no significant minorities yet. What I meant was the mixture of the majority of decent people and minority of thugs living in one area. Bonobo, We agree on this point then! Often the wrong combination of migrants with problems and a native European underclass creates the minority of thugs. But the reality is that the minority of thugs exsist both in rural area's with a large majority of native European Dutch and in the multi-cultural area's in the large cities where the migrants dominate! It also has have something to do with social backgrounds, the economical position of a region, the level of employment (or/and unemployment), the level of the educational infrastructure of that area, and the amount of cooperation and coexistance between groups and communities in such area's. For instance are there " white schools" or " Black schools" in the area. " white schools" means white Native-European Dutch domination in the built up of pupils or students and " Black schools" schools who are 100% migrant populated or with a large non-Western migrant population. So it is important to monitor of children and youth in an area grow up in a exclusive mono-ethnic group culture in segregation and in some cases isolation in an ethnic cultural and religious community or that they grow up in multi-ethnic, mixed, pluriform environments and multi-cultural communities which are inclusive. Pieter P.S.- This issue has a large sociologic element.
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 9, 2011 23:49:26 GMT 1
Yes, I agree, people who keep some faith, wherever it and they come from, are OK. Bonobo, I don't know if people who keep some fiath or who are religious are better or less criminal, vandalistic, political extreme than the secular-humanist, atheist or Agnostic people? You have hypocritical, ambivallent or opportunistic Christians, Muslims, Hindu's and even Buddhists? Some secular people take a value system, morality and a sense of what is good and wrong from a non-religtious Humanistic philosophy or ideology. Their morality is equal to that of Catholics and Protestants. You have to judge every individual, ideology, faith community and group on it's merits, actions and stance. Pieter Yes, of course, you are right, there are decent people who don`t follow any religion but act better than religious ones. You and Tim are one of them. Sorry for that neglection.
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Post by pjotr on Feb 10, 2011 0:12:18 GMT 1
Bonobo, I don't know if people who keep some fiath or who are religious are better or less criminal, vandalistic, political extreme than the secular-humanist, atheist or Agnostic people? You have hypocritical, ambivallent or opportunistic Christians, Muslims, Hindu's and even Buddhists? Some secular people take a value system, morality and a sense of what is good and wrong from a non-religtious Humanistic philosophy or ideology. Their morality is equal to that of Catholics and Protestants. You have to judge every individual, ideology, faith community and group on it's merits, actions and stance. Pieter Yes, of course, you are right, there are decent people who don`t follow any religion but act better than religious ones. You are one of them. Sorry for that neglection. Like there are decent people who are religious but act better than many secular people with their secular humanist value system and ethics. You are one of them. Spoken from a Dutch perspective (a country with a secular majority and secular values which are dominant) Cheers, Pieter
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Feb 11, 2011 0:46:32 GMT 1
Can someone explain to me why it is that we must be tolerant of everything and everyone yet they are not required to do the same? Have I missed something here? Are we and our heritage just property to be disposed of as the government and their global finance masters see fit? It would seem as though the west has been conquered and nobody bothered to tell the peasants.
Just curious.
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 11, 2011 13:16:27 GMT 1
Can someone explain to me why it is that we must be tolerant of everything and everyone yet they are not required to do the same? Have I missed something here? Are we and our heritage just property to be disposed of as the government and their global finance masters see fit? It would seem as though the west has been conquered and nobody bothered to tell the peasants. Just curious. WE are truly tolerant, while THEY only pretend.
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Post by pjotr on Feb 11, 2011 21:15:59 GMT 1
Can someone explain to me why it is that we must be tolerant of everything and everyone yet they are not required to do the same? Have I missed something here? Are we and our heritage just property to be disposed of as the government and their global finance masters see fit? It would seem as though the west has been conquered and nobody bothered to tell the peasants. Just curious. Tim, Bonono, Tufta, The problem in Western-Europe and especially the North-Western and far Western parts of Western-Europe is that for to long we have been to accommodating and submissive to multi-culturalism and to forgiving when migrants or foreigners did something wrong or were abusing our system. We were to soft, naïve, trite, blind and selfcentered to see what was wrong with the over tolerant, altruistic, levelling society. Politicians, leaders, the elite and a large part of the population who followed them abandoned " Patriotism", " Confessional conservatism", " traditional values of a society and communities", national customs and habits, faith, hope and national aims or aspirations. A nearly libertarian, pragmatic, technocatic management culture of short term goals, media hypes, counceling, and equality of all cultures replaced to old politics of national interest. The Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden were looking and longing for a place in Europe and the world. But you don't deserve or achieve a place in the world if you don't take your own culture, tradition, people and national interests serious. Today you see a spastic, neurotic, isolationalist, chauvinistic, populist reaction to the " ancien regime" of the last decades, who stil got's power on local, regional and parlaiment levels. The ancien regime is the " Old politics", are the democratic parties, Unions and former governments who created the " appeasement climate", the affirmative action culture (called ' positive discrimination' in the Netherlands), subsidising migrant organisations (Muslim and foreign pillars), black schools (Muslim schools) and the formation of ethnic zones with a majority of Non-Dutch (non-European) people. That makes moderate democratic people Nationalistic or Populist, because they have become a minority in their large city neighbourhoods. They want to be the majority in their own city, region and country, and to get rid of these newcommers. That is the reason of the large growth of Geert Wilders PVV party. The voters are often the white, native European, Dutch people who have become a minority in their environment. These people felt alienated and abandoned by their former governments, politicians and city councils. The New rightwing government is more strict on immigration and public spending issues, Pro-small government, focussed on Dutch interests, fiscal conservative and austerity (cut backs). In the Netherlands we have austerity without increases in taxes. That means that some of the public services simply seaze to exist, institutions are closed or reduced. In the cultural sense some orchestra, theatres and art companies will disappear. On the down side of society there will be less health care and social services for the poor, ill, elderly and people with mental disorders. It is a biological (darwinistic), social-cultural and historical fact that people always cherisch and hail their own family, clan, group, tribe or people. People want their territory to stay theirs! The fear, aversion, hatred and resistance against Islam is large in many parts of Western-Europe. It is comparable to the old European anti-semitism, but differant, because the Muslim minority is differant than the old Jewish communities in Europe which perished in the Holocaust. The Muslims are better organised, have roots in the countries they come from and have links with a large religion of 1 billion people. There is no daily terror against Muslims, but they are discriminated, experiance racism, islamophobia and xenophobia. The societies they live in have become less tolerant and multi-cultural minded then in the past (seventees, eightees and ninetees). Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Feb 13, 2011 1:54:42 GMT 1
The challance in the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden is to find a middle road inbetween tolerance and intolerance. Not the exaggerated overtolerance of the past and not the xenophobe intolerance of today. A good ballance is needed!
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Post by pjotr on Feb 13, 2011 17:54:36 GMT 1
www.rnw.nl/english/video/holland-19An international radio show about the Netherlands. Listen to the story about the expoitation of Polish workers in the Netherlands! Scrol to 6.46 minutes!
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Post by pjotr on Feb 16, 2011 14:25:53 GMT 1
AusterityStudents and allies occupying the Roman Colosseum during an Italy education-cuts protestIn economics, austerity is a policy of deficit-cutting, lower spending, and a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided. Austerity policies are often used by governments to reduce their deficit spending while sometimes coupled with increases in taxes to pay back creditors to reduce debt. Austerity was named the word of the year by Merriam-Webster in 2010. Reasons for taking austerity measuresFrench protesters coming up against the country's new austerity-fueled retirement-age raiseAusterity measures are typically taken if there is a perceived threat that government cannot honor its debt liabilities. Such a situation may arise if a government has borrowed in foreign currencies which they have no right to issue or they have been legally forbidden from issuing their own currency. In such a situation banks may lose trust in government's ability and/or willingness to pay and refuse to roll over existing debts or demand exorbitant interest rates. In such situations, inter-governmental institutions such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) typically come in and demand austerity measures in exchange for functioning as a lender of last resort. When the IMF requires such a policy, the terms are known as ' IMF conditionalities'. Typical effectsPolice putting handcuffs on a protester during riots at a May Day rally in Athens on May 1, 2010. A degree of violence is typical at all Greek May Day demonstrations but was reported as being especially intense in 2010 due to the country's new austerity measures.Development projects, welfare, and other social spending are common programs of spending that are targeted for cuts. Taxes, port and airport fees and train and bus fares are common sources of increased user fees. In many cases, austerity measures have been associated with short-term declines in standard of living until economic conditions improved and fiscal balance was achieved. Theoretical considerationsContemporary mainstream economists consider macro policy in dynamic stochastic general equilibrium (DSGE) framework, where fiscal policy is discussed within an optimal taxation framework that assumes a representative agent is optimizing over a long-term horizon. The intuition behind such models is that the effect of any government deficit can be alleviated by changes in their spending decisions. This occurs because the agent will be responsible for paying off that deficit in the future. Thus, in a modern mainstream macroeconomists point of view, reducing government deficit allows the private sector to consume more and support the economy. This viewpoint stems from their belief in the existence of general economic equilibrium, which predicts that economic fluctuations revert back toward "normal" state of matters automatically. For this reason econometric models, that are used in economic forecasting, are calibrated to show convergence to full resource utilization and employment despite government's fiscal tightening. Old-Keynesians, such as Alvin Hansen had a totally opposite view: they argued that government deficits provide private sector both with new money for saving (the deficit) and means to save to (government interest-bearing bonds), increasing private sector wealth and this wealth effect would reduce need to save from current income. Government debt enabled, in their view, private sector to continue consuming. It was therefore not a burden, at least when held domestically, but a necessity. This approach has interesting parallels with Richard Koo's recent concept of balance-sheet recession. Chartalist school argues that money exists because of government's charter and not because of existence of gold and silver (metallism). They advocate governments active management of money supply and creation and destruction of money if necessary. ControversyAusterity programs can be controversial, as they tend to have an adverse impact on the poorest segments of the population. In many situations, austerity programs are implemented by countries that were previously under dictatorial regimes, leading to criticism that the citizens are forced to repay the debts of their oppressors. Economist Richard D. Wolff has stated that instead of cutting government programs and raising taxes, austerity should be attained by collecting from non-profit multinational corporations, churches, and private tax-exempt institutions such as universities, which currently pay no taxes at all. In 2009 and 2010, workers and students in Greece and other European countries demonstrated against cuts to pensions, public services and education spending as a result of government austerity measures. There are also those, like Nobel Prize laureate Paul Krugman, who argue that austerity measures tend to be counterproductive when misapplied. Opponents argue that austerity measures tend to depress economic growth, which ultimately causes governments to lose more money in tax revenues. In countries with already anemic economic growth, austerity can engender deflation which inflates existing debt. This can also cause the country to fall into a liquidity trap, causing credit markets to freeze up and unemployment to increase. Opponents point to cases in Ireland and Spain in which austerity measures instituted in response to financial crises in 2009 proved ineffective in combating public debt, and placing those countries at risk of defaulting in late 2010. Word of the yearMerriam-Webster's Dictionary named the word " austerity" as its " Word of the Year" for 2010 because of the number of web searches this word generated that year. According to the president and publisher of the dictionary, " austerity had more than 250,000 searches on the dictionary's free online [website] tool" and the spike in searches "came with more coverage of the debt crisis". Examples of austerity * California, 2011 * Czech Republic, 2010 * Germany, 2011 * Greece, 2010 * Ireland, 2010 * Italy, 2010 * Japan, 2010 * Latvia, 2009 * Netherlands, 1982-1990, 2003-2006, 2011 * Romania, 2010 * Portugal, 2010 * Spain, 1979, 2010 * United Kingdom, during and after the two World Wars, 2011–14 Dutch student anti-Austerity protests against cutbacks on higher and special education in the Hague (Januari, 20th 2011)
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 16, 2011 23:41:47 GMT 1
AusterityIn economics, austerity is a policy of deficit-cutting, lower spending, and a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided. Very educational article, Peter. It is so amazing how indulgent people can be. I mean spending more money than one really earns. It seems so easy and widespread that it is already treated as a natural phenomenon of our times. Like seasons of the year. Yet, it never ceases to surprise me to see the reaction of masses when they are brought down to earth and are told it is time to pay back. Protests, violent demonstrations and strikes start. People are really strange.
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Feb 17, 2011 2:45:37 GMT 1
The feast/famine cycle is typical to any democratic form of governance. Votes must be bought with "other peoples money" and eventually the debt becomes unsustainable. Having always been an actual producer of wealth, (Farming, Manufacturing, Mining, etc.) I am seriously considering moving from the city to my farm and picking up a agrarian existence. The wife and I don't mind working of course, but, I see no need to expend my lifes energy being one of the few producers who will pay the debts of other people. I may even find myself to become a net tax consumer instead of a producer. The surest way to end my slavery is to collapse the system that supports it. I've never really had issue with helping the less fortunate, but the time has come when those I have supported are now demanding and ungrateful. I never intended to retire at 45, but it is becoming more logical every day.
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Post by pjotr on Feb 19, 2011 17:51:02 GMT 1
AusterityIn economics, austerity is a policy of deficit-cutting, lower spending, and a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided. It is so amazing how indulgent people can be. I mean spending more money than one really earns. It seems so easy and widespread that it is already treated as a natural phenomenon of our times. Like seasons of the year. Bonobo, For a long time that was the reality in the Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavia, due to a nearly " socialist" social security welfare state, which created the Western version of the Sovjet human, or the social democratic unproductive underclass. The typical social democratic North-West-European welfare state was a concept of government where the state plays the primary role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of its citizens. It was based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. A group of people who originated in the working class became unemployed for generations, and dependant on Unemployment benefits. Some people did not work for decades. Some people are on the downside of society and their dependancy created an uneducated, unskilled, depending inactive group of people who only consumes and causes problems in society. Asocial behavior, moral and social decay, disintegrated families and communities and the alcoholism, drugs abuse and crime which comes with that. The last words in black are Pieters words and opinion about the Dutch and Scandinavian North-Western-European wellfare states. People who benefited from these benefits were the European working and middle classes of these societies and the migrant communities. It created a less pleasent society, with neighbourhoods without a propper middle class to maintain a liveable, local economy. The Middle classes left these city neighbourhoods and fled to subburbs or villages in the periphery of the larger cities. These villages in the periphery of the city and the subburbs became part of these expanding cities and towns. Rural land became city land in Western Europe, due to this development of city expansion. The new way of Urbanisation was building new area's, called * Vinex locations in Dutch. (* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinex-location )These new urban area's will create the future problems for our country. The anonymous mass builiding in combination with a deteriorating education system, unemployment and social tensions between native people and newcommers must be adressed or fixed. Centre-left and centre-right governments come and go, but they don't know how to deal with the complex problems of Modern Europe on the National, regional, local and European level. Except from the suffering and opression from Communist regimes in the recent past Central- and Eastern-Europe have the benefit of the chance of a Total Transformation of the economy, society, political system and education system from a non-practical, ineffective Plan economy towards a Free Market Economy and Parlaimentary democracy. The lack of differance or diversity in the Western-European democracies is not present in Central-Europe. You have a clear Left, centre-left, centre-righ and right there. The Old democracy has failed in North-Western-Europe, the New Rightwing Populism will have a temporary effect, and after that in the Middle new democratic movements will take the place of the old ones. Old political parties, Unions and movements will have to reform themselves, set up new grassrootsmovements, think tanks and forms which are compattible with the Internet economy and Internetdemocracy of the Future. New generations think differantly, act differantly and live differantly than the political theorists, activists and politicians of the past. The guys who dominate the politics of today. Even the Rightwing Populist PVV of Wilders is partly connected to the past of the Social Welfare state of the seventees, eightees and ninetees, with their socialist ideas in their program, next to their rightwing ideas of cutbacks on culture, migration and environmental issues. Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Feb 19, 2011 18:12:23 GMT 1
AusterityIn economics, austerity is a policy of deficit-cutting, lower spending, and a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided. Yet, it never ceases to surprise me to see the reaction of masses when they are brought down to earth and are told it is time to pay back. Protests, violent demonstrations and strikes start. People are really strange. Bonobo, People are like spoiled children. The governments of the welfare state system were like parents who spoil their children, by giving their children toys without anything in return (like good behavior, learning, an effort to achieve goals). The toys of the adults are Unemployment Benefits, Student-specific scholarships and Subsidies. These people in North-Western-Europe, France and Greece are used to a State who gave them things like if they are entitled to it. They were raised in a society who gave them these things for free. Now these countries and societies are changing and the reality that you have to earn these things, to work for things or that you don't get things for free is not understandable for these adult versions of spoiled kids. Pieter
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2011 22:12:43 GMT 1
The governments of the welfare state system were like parents who spoil their children, by giving their children toys without anything in return (like good behavior, learning, an effort to achieve goals). The toys of the adults are Unemployment Benefits, Student-specific scholarships and Subsidies. These people in North-Western-Europe, France and Greece are used to a State who gave them things like if they are entitled to it. They were raised in a society who gave them these things for free. Now these countries and societies are changing and the reality that you have to earn these things, to work for things or that you don't get things for free is not understandable for these adult versions of spoiled kids. Pieter Yes. It is amazing that some countries/societies have reached such a level of development that they can sponsor their citizens doing nothing, only taking welfare. PS. I agree to Greece and France. I would add Germany too. But why did you not mention Holland? Isn`t it a welfare state?
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2011 22:38:39 GMT 1
It was based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. A group of people who originated in the working class became unemployed for generations, and dependant on Unemployment benefits. These are very humane principles. Like taken from the Bible and all christianity. Pity that people are not angels. If they were, the noble divine holy principles wouldn`t erode. Sad, but true. I would add that these people don`t read books, either. In result, they are not too intelligent. I suppose Europe looked and sounded like that during Celtic, Germanic and Slavic migrations from the East 1500 years ago. The turmoil and problems must have been quite similar. And finally is subsided, and gave a spur to excellent European civilization. After all, it was Europeans who created America and others. So, I propose to distance oneself from this current ferment. In 500 years` time it will be long gone. People will worry about other things - e.g., resources.
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Post by pjotr on Feb 22, 2011 23:36:46 GMT 1
The governments of the welfare state system were like parents who spoil their children, by giving their children toys without anything in return (like good behavior, learning, an effort to achieve goals). The toys of the adults are Unemployment Benefits, Student-specific scholarships and Subsidies. These people in North-Western-Europe, France and Greece are used to a State who gave them things like if they are entitled to it. They were raised in a society who gave them these things for free. Now these countries and societies are changing and the reality that you have to earn these things, to work for things or that you don't get things for free is not understandable for these adult versions of spoiled kids. Pieter Yes. It is amazing that some countries/societies have reached such a level of development that they can sponsor their citizens doing nothing, only taking welfare. PS. I agree to Greece and France. I would add Germany too. But why did you not mention Holland? Isn`t it a welfare state? Bonobo, You are right ofcourse I forgot to mention the Netherlands, the same was the case here. I talk from my own experiance, the Netherlands is a North-Western-European country. Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Feb 22, 2011 23:44:08 GMT 1
It was based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. A group of people who originated in the working class became unemployed for generations, and dependant on Unemployment benefits. These are very humane principles. Like taken from the Bible and all christianity. Pity that people are not angels. If they were, the noble divine holy principles wouldn`t erode. Sad, but true. I would add that these people don`t read books, either. In result, they are not too intelligent. I suppose Europe looked and sounded like that during Celtic, Germanic and Slavic migrations from the East 1500 years ago. The turmoil and problems must have been quite similar. And finally is subsided, and gave a spur to excellent European civilization. After all, it was Europeans who created America and others. So, I propose to distance oneself from this current ferment. In 500 years` time it will be long gone. People will worry about other things - e.g., resources. Bonobo, We North-West-Europeans simply have to reform ourselves, adabt ourselves to the (new) needs and demands of this time, work harder and expect less of our governments. I quote John F. Kennedy: " And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country." www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/John_F_Kennedy/5.htm
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Post by pjotr on Feb 23, 2011 11:17:42 GMT 1
It was based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. A group of people who originated in the working class became unemployed for generations, and dependant on Unemployment benefits. These are very humane principles. Like taken from the Bible and all christianity. Pity that people are not angels. If they were, the noble divine holy principles wouldn`t erode. Sad, but true. I would add that these people don`t read books, either. In result, they are not too intelligent. I suppose Europe looked and sounded like that during Celtic, Germanic and Slavic migrations from the East 1500 years ago. The turmoil and problems must have been quite similar. And finally is subsided, and gave a spur to excellent European civilization. After all, it was Europeans who created America and others. So, I propose to distance oneself from this current ferment. In 500 years` time it will be long gone. People will worry about other things - e.g., resources. Do you mean that we now live in a rather primitive time of Western civilization? In the sense of less education, primitivism, and for instance a downfall due to decadence, hedonism and the emptyness of Modern Western culture, media and *the political circus of our societies? * The weakness of the present democratic systems, with it's lack of voters and credebility, erosion of the the political parties and in general the lack of enthousiasm and effort [which should be put] in the political process, system and democracy in general?
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Post by pjotr on Feb 23, 2011 11:27:14 GMT 1
The apathy, cynicism and lack of belief in their political leaders is a problem in the West in which the democratic system lives or survives by the effort of the people (the populations) put in it. When half of the people is indifferant or has a lack of interest and belief in their own democracy, democratic powers, politicians and the state which is run by these chosen politicians who become ministers and state secretaries, than we have a problem.
The problem is that what I describe above here is the case! A large minority is simply not interested in their democracy, the democracy which guarantees their freedom, safety and wealth (in my opinion).
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Post by tufta on Mar 3, 2011 22:54:18 GMT 1
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