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Post by jeanne on Nov 26, 2017 2:11:45 GMT 1
Well, I can understand how parishioners might be offended by a too blatant display of wealth, as Christianity espouses the value of spiritual poverty, but on the other hand, priests (at least diocesan priests) do receive a salary that they are free to spend as they wish. They do not have families to support with children to be fed, clothed and educated, so perhaps they may choose to spend their personal money on a car. After all, they have been generous in giving their lives to God's work! Priests are human... Yes, you are right as usual, but remember that buying a car for 100.000$ by a Catholic priest carries different connotation in Poland and the USA...  Yes, you are right...also as usual! I had in mind a priest I know of who has a little Mazda Miata that he keeps as a second car, but then I looked up the price and it sells for around $25,000, and that is quite a bit different from the Porsche! |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 10, 2018 23:26:03 GMT 1
One of the reasons for the diminishing number of practising believers in Poland is the engagement of the RC Church in politics. Many people don`t like it, especially that the side they support is a bit controvercial. If we take into account how much PiS invested into their brutal campaign, I mean all their blatant lies, manipulation and primitive attacks, especially by PiS controlled state TV and radio, plus Prime Minister`s active engagement, clandestine or sometimes open support from the RC Church and other resources like abundant social benefits, ,35241,24139796,bialystok-po-wyborach-samorzadowych-ofiara-radnego-elekta.html A newly elected PiS council member publicly paid 10.000$ to a local priest who supported him during the election campaign. The support was effective because the young candidate had been put on the last position in the PiS ballot list. But he won against all odds!  |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 20, 2019 20:51:30 GMT 1
Some bishops cause indignation with their opinions. E.g., one said that boys shouldn’t be made to tidy up because it is the beginning of genderism which directly leads to the crisis of family. Really. www.fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polityka/abp-gadecki-chlopcy-nie-powinni-po-sobie-sprzatac/rvpt61lIt is wrong because many reasonable people think that if a mature man is able to say such things about tidying, what kind of reasoning does he have? 19th century like? That puts people off. Pity that the Church holds on to such trivial traditional values at any cost, thus losing potential supporters and believers. They should focus on really important issues like abortion or Decalogue.  |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 5, 2019 6:12:39 GMT 1
A recent scandal is about burning books. Negative historical connotations come to mind. www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47771706
Catholic priests in northern Poland have burned books they consider to be sacrilegious, including ones from the Harry Potter boy wizard series.
An evangelical group, the SMS from Heaven Foundation, published pictures of the burning - which took place in the city of Gdansk - on Facebook.
They also show an elephant figurine and a tribal mask burning on the book pile.
The Facebook post justifies the bonfire with Bible quotes condemning magic. The group sends Christian messages via SMS.
"We obey the Word," the post says (in Polish).
A passage from Acts, quoted in the group's post, says "many of those who had practiced magic collected their books and burned them in front of everyone. So they calculated their value and found it to be fifty thousand pieces of silver".
Another passage, from Deuteronomy, says: "Burn the images of their gods. Don't desire the silver or the gold that is on them and take it for yourself, or you will be trapped by it. That is detestable to the Lord your God." |
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 14, 2019 12:26:15 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 24, 2019 8:36:44 GMT 1
The title of the thread started in 2008 was prophetic - fewer and fewer people want to become priests in Poland. That is why we need immigrant priests, even dark skinned ones. I hope Catholic nationalists and racists won`t have anything against. There are already a few of them in Poland - from Africa, India. Some of them primarily serve the African/Asian communities here, but most work with native Poles. It is going on a mission trip with the reversed direction - not to African but to Europe. wyborcza.pl/duzyformat/7,127290,25530963,czarnoskory-ksiadz-na-podhalu-i-w-bialymstoku-polacy-sa.html#S.DT-K.C-B.2-L.1.duzy warszawa.wyborcza.pl/warszawa/51,54420,10672508.html?i=2     |
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Post by jeanne on Dec 24, 2019 19:17:14 GMT 1
The title of the thread started in 2008 was prophetic - fewer and fewer people want to become priests in Poland. That is why we need immigrant priests, even dark skinned ones. I hope Catholic nationalists and racists won`t have anything against. There are already a few of them in Poland - from Africa, India. Some of them primarily serve the African/Asian communities here, but most work with native Poles. It is going on a mission trip with the reversed direction - not to African but to Europe. It is the same situation here in the U.S. Foreign priests are here as missionaries to serve in areas with few priests. In our Archdiocese, many African priests help out during the summer so that the priests in the parishes can go on vacation and get a much-deserved rest. I have found all the African priests I have come in contact with to be knowledgeable, holy and reverent priests, and we are always sad to see them leave at the end of summer! Many others live here year-round while they attend colleges, universities, etc., and they often work as hospital or school chaplains, which frees up our archdiocesan priests to work in parishes or hold other offices. |
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 28, 2019 15:20:03 GMT 1
I have found all the African priests I have come in contact with to be knowledgeable, holy and reverent priests, and we are always sad to see them leave at the end of summer! That`s nice, I thought they came to the US to make money, a lot more than in Africa. |
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Post by jeanne on Dec 28, 2019 18:45:15 GMT 1
I have found all the African priests I have come in contact with to be knowledgeable, holy and reverent priests, and we are always sad to see them leave at the end of summer! That`s nice, I thought they came to the US to make money, a lot more than in Africa. Hahaha...they are not laying up earthly wealth, but treasure that lasts!!
But, the people here enjoy having them so much, that often when they leave they leave with donations of money and items for their parishes in Africa. Trust me...they are not getting rich... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 1, 2020 19:09:32 GMT 1
often when they leave they leave with donations of money and items for their parishes in Africa. Trust me...they are not getting rich... How do you know what they do with the money when back home? |
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Post by jeanne on Jan 1, 2020 20:07:04 GMT 1
often when they leave they leave with donations of money and items for their parishes in Africa. Trust me...they are not getting rich... How do you know what they do with the money when back home? I don't know in all cases, but I do know in one case that a U.S. priest who became friendly with the visiting priest flew to Africa to visit him and see what his ministry situation is like in Africa. The U.S. priest was able to bring back photos of how the donations had helped the African parish and report on other things he had seen there which were happening because of generosity of American parishioners. Besides...I'm working on not being skeptical; I prefer to think the best of people and give them the benefit of the doubt. I find being negative is not healthy for me! |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 1, 2020 20:35:58 GMT 1
The U.S. priest was able to bring back photos of how the donations had helped the African parish and report on other things he had seen there which were happening because of generosity of American parishioners. Besides...I'm working on not being skeptical; I prefer to think the best of people and give them the benefit of the doubt. I find being negative is not healthy for me! That`s nice. But being sceptical can be sometimes good for you. There was one sceptical guy who became famous worldwide till infinity due to his scepticism. If it happened today, he would become a rich celebrity through the public interest in him in the media, youtube etc. |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 4, 2020 10:27:47 GMT 1
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Post by jeanne on Nov 4, 2020 17:06:47 GMT 1
I think every once in a while, God has to cleanse his Church. It appears he has been doing a lot of that lately. It is a necessary cleansing of people within the Church who get distracted from the message of Jesus and start to get their work intertwined with and taken over by earthly concerns. They lose sight of the mission Christ gave his Church, so God is putting them "back on the rails," if you understand that idiom. The Catholic Church itself remains the church Christ established from the beginning of Christianity...it's the people within it who are sinners, as we all are. It is a pity, though, that "the Church" gets blamed for the failings of human beings who for some reason fail to follow the teachings of Christ and the authentic gospel they are supposed to be spreading among the people...just my opinion... |
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Post by jeanne on Nov 4, 2020 17:14:58 GMT 1
But being sceptical can be sometimes good for you. There was one sceptical guy who became famous worldwide till infinity due to his scepticism. If it happened today, he would become a rich celebrity through the public interest in him in the media, youtube etc. By the way, I never asked you who this "skeptical guy" was or is. Who are you referring to? |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 4, 2020 19:21:38 GMT 1
They lose sight of the mission Christ gave his Church, so God is putting them "back on the rails," if you understand that idiom. Yes, the Church was too triumphant after communism collapsed - the clergy rightly believed they contributed to it. But instead of sticking to Christ`s teaching, they started to behave like Pharisees, with their infamous corruption and betrayal of moral principles. And believers could observe the rising discrepancy between the noble Christian ideals and daily ignoble practice. The youth were the first who said: No more!  By the way, I never asked you who this "skeptical guy" was or is. Who are you referring to? Of course, Thomas. |
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Post by jeanne on Nov 5, 2020 2:09:09 GMT 1
They lose sight of the mission Christ gave his Church, so God is putting them "back on the rails," if you understand that idiom. Yes, the Church was too triumphant after communism collapsed - the clergy rightly believed they contributed to it. But instead of sticking to Christ`s teaching, they started to behave like Pharisees, with their infamous corruption and betrayal of moral principles. And believers could observe the rising discrepancy between the noble Christian ideals and daily ignoble practice. Ah yes, human nature raises its ugly head... Silly me, I should have known...  |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 1, 2021 10:07:33 GMT 1
A few weeks ago, there was a poll which showed that the majority of Poles distrust the Church as an institution. It is natural after so many scandals. However, the most depressing thing is that top clergy aren`t going to do anything with it - they only accuse their attackers and critics of being leftists, but they are unable to admit the guilt and try to improve the situation. theconversation.com/polish-women-reject-the-catholic-churchs-hold-on-their-country-149609www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/02/the-guardian-view-on-polands-catholics-losing-faith-in-their-churchThe Guardian view on Poland’s Catholics: losing faith in their church
Editorial
Zealous clerical backing for the government’s culture wars is alienating a growing number of the faithful
Wed 2 Dec 2020 18.39 GMT
Last modified on Wed 2 Dec 2020 19.59 GMT
Protests outside the Bishop’s Palace in Kraków after accusations that Cardinal Stanisław Dziwisz was involved in covering up abuse cases in the Polish church. Photograph: Artur Barbarowski/East News/Rex/Shutterstock
During the five years in which the Law and Justice (PiS) party has governed in Poland, the lines between politics and religion have become, to put it mildly, blurred. In a sermon last week, for example, the archbishop of Kraków, Marek Jędraszewski, offered episcopal backing for the government’s refusal to sign off on the European Union’s Covid recovery fund.
By linking the fund to a controversial “rule of law” clause, Archbishop Jędraszewski said, Brussels was seeking to impose a “neo-Marxist vision of a new order that rejects God’s kingdom”. The clause, he claimed, was a Trojan horse that would be used to impose abortion on demand, gender “ideology” in schools and other assorted liberal heresies. Bishops and prelates have also lined up alongside the government during its culture wars over Muslim refugees and LGBTQ+ rights. As clerics and ministers operate in authoritarian symbiosis, Poland has at times resembled a theocracy in the heart of the EU.
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Ultra-conservatives such as Archbishop Jędraszewski have revelled in this proximity to secular power. But there are intriguing indications that the most influential church in Europe may have overplayed its hand. Increasing numbers of Poles, it seems, are growing tired of being bullied by bishops. A survey earlier this year found that only 35% now take a positive view of the church. Among young people that figure fell to 9%. The number of priests abandoning their vocations is among the highest in Europe.
October’s controversial abortion ruling by Poland’s constitutional court, which, if ratified, would amount to a near-total ban, has generated a huge backlash. The Polish bishops’ conference warned Catholics not to take part in the mass protests that followed the judgment. As some demonstrations targeted churches, PiS’s leader, Jarosław Kaczyński, called on Poles to “defend the church at any price”. But the strength of feeling is such that old taboos are losing their hold. Protests against the court ruling have taken place in small communities where the local church’s authority has seldom been challenged. In one town near Warsaw, the hands of a statue of Saint John Paul II were daubed with red paint.
Sexual abuse scandals highlighted in the Polish media have also significantly eroded trust. John Paul II’s judgment was criticised in last month’s Vatican report into abuse by the disgraced ex-cardinal Theodore McCarrick. The former pope’s secretary, Cardinal Stanisław Dziwisz, has been accused of covering up abuse cases in the Polish church. Many Poles believe that the church’s steadfast support for the PiS government has ensured a hands-off approach by the government into allegations of abuse.
Under Mr Kaczyński, PiS has pioneered a politics that weaponises Christianity in the service of an illiberal nationalism that targets minorities and flouts European norms. Viktor Orbán’s Hungary borrows from the same playbook. In Italy, the leader of the rightwing League party, Matteo Salvini, is rarely seen these days without a rosary. Co-opting scripture for short-term political gain may make sense for opportunistic politicians, but for churches, going along with it is a dangerous game. Last month, a group of prominent priests and lay Catholics called on the Polish church to distance itself from PiS and to “abandon anything which, in the eyes of many, including Catholics, smacks of a throne-altar alliance”. Their statement denounced attempts to “exploit the church for the political interests of the ruling party”. If the country’s ecclesiastical hierarchy is wise, it will pay heed. According to one survey this year, a big majority of Poles still consider themselves religious. But they are rapidly losing faith in their bishops. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 4, 2021 14:26:47 GMT 1
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Post by jeanne on Apr 10, 2021 23:13:19 GMT 1
The pandemic has deprived parishes of 40-60% income and the prognosis for the future are not too bright. A sad situation, but Poland is certainly not alone here. Same is true in U.S. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 14, 2021 22:33:24 GMT 1
Yes, the Polish article I read also mentioned the US situation.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 1, 2021 9:40:05 GMT 1
Polish bishops have been summoned to appear before the Pope and explain their dubious actions which are one of reasons why the RC Church is losing support in Poland. It is an unusual situation coz bishops are treated by the Pope like naughty students who behaved badly. www.romereports.com/en/2021/10/08/pope-francis-meets-with-polish-bishops/Another matter is the sexual abuse crisis. The Vatican has sanctioned 10 Polish bishops guilty of negligence in the handling of victims' reports of sexual abuse.
During his General Audience, when Pope Francis lamented the shocking numbers of sexual abuse cases in France, he spoke directly to French bishops, but extended the message to Polish bishops. |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 14, 2021 10:49:27 GMT 1
A good article about the deteriorating condition of the Polish RC Church and their latest meeting with the Pope www.onet.pl/informacje/onetwiadomosci/polscy-katolicy-zostali-sami-w-polsce-nie-bedzie-drugiego-chile-komentarz/r3jqvvg,79cfc278 Summary : top clergy refuse to acknowledge and cope with the shortcomings or even vices of their Church, which is one of the main reasons it is slowly, but steadily crumbling. Polish Catholics were left alone. There will be no second Chile [COMMENTARY]
The bishops went, listened to what Pope Francis had to say - and they continue to do their job - Kazimierz Bem and Jarosław Makowski write in "Przegląd".
Before the visit of Polish bishops to Rome, some commentators counted on the Chilean scenario, i.e. the Vatican would force the resignation of the episcopate. However, nothing of the sort happened
Franciszek has neither the desire nor the time to deal with Poland. John Paul II made us used to the fact that the native Church is the apple of the Vatican's apple, but that has changed
Franciszek willingly imposes symbolic punishments on Polish hierarchs, but in the face of their solidarity and corporate loyalty, he will not risk a conflict
Meanwhile, according to the Pew study from 2020, Polish youth is the fastest secularizing and atheising youth in the world
Stefan Kisielewski is the author of a well-known bon mot, which for the purposes of describing the condition of the Catholic Church in Poland can be paraphrased as follows: the problem is not even that the bishops have made a circus out of the Church - the problem is that they like the present presentation very much.
Poland is not the navel of the Church
Before the traditional visit of the Ad limina Apostolorum of Polish bishops, many commentators let their imaginations run wild; They dreamed of a European Chile - the pope would force the stubbornly proud bishops who concealed sexual degenerates to resign in gremio. In Poland - where the episcopate is so closely connected with the government that it is often called ePiSkopat, successive bishops not only turn out to be helpless in the fight against the pedophilia of their priests, but even sabotage it (the case of the priest Andrzej Dymer from Szczecin ), and trust in the clergy is equally as little as trust in Deputy Prime Minister for Security Jarosław Kaczyński - it seemed that the Pope would intervene, threaten, and perhaps even force his resignations.
Will there be no shortage of medications? Chinese problems may result in hiccups in Polish pharmacies
We were one of the few who did not delude ourselves. We remembered that the Chilean case, although strong, was and is an exception, and it was mainly due to the fact that the local bishops lied to Pope Francis, who vouched for the sexual predator, Bishop. Juan Barros. And then he regretted it, apologizing publicly: “I made serious mistakes in assessing and discerning the situation, especially due to the lack of reliable and balanced information. I apologize to everyone I have offended. " Hence these resignations. But note that the already shocking report on the scale of covering up pedophiles in the Church of France - 216,000 victims in 70 years, as determined by the Independent Commission on Abuse in the Church, did not persuade Francis to take similar steps. Why should it be different in Poland?
Apart from the Vatican's policy of leniency towards bishops who conceal pedophiles, which the Polish princes of the Church sensed perfectly, there are other reasons that make Francis treat the Polish episcopate as if he were not a very fresh egg. First, the current bishop of Rome has neither the desire nor the time to deal with Poland. John Paul II has accustomed us to the fact that the native Church is the apple of the eye of the Vatican, but that has changed.
Benedict XVI paid more attention to us, while Francis shows far-reaching restraint. Somewhat on the principle that the legacy of Pope Wojtyła is still alive here, with whom the current bishop of Rome has no intention of fighting or changing him in any way. The absence of Franciszek from Poland is significant, apart from the only visit, which he inherited from his predecessor. It may be painful for Poles, but they are no longer the navel of the Catholic Church in the world.
Second, and we may find shocking, Pope Francis is an advocate of decentralization, or, in the ecclesiastical language, of synodality. Local churches should solve their own problems, not look to Rome. The problem is that the Polish Church has always looked towards Rome, because John Paul II was its leader. And he was in fact managing it. Now we have a paradoxical situation: the faithful are demanding the intervention of Francis when they see the bishops' mischief, for example in the matter of covering pedophiles in cassocks. Our bishops, on the other hand, support Franciszek, saying that we will take care of our troubles here and clean up our yard. We can all see how it is doing.
Corporate loyalty
What else tells us that our bishops had a nice time in Rome? The fact that they are loyal to each other. As one priest tells us, "the resistance of the matter is so great to the changes that Francis proposes that the Pope will not want to go into an open confrontation."
I agree that our hierarchs, including Archbishop Sławoj Leszek Głódź , Archbishop Marian Gołębiewski, Archbishop Wiktor Skworc, Bishop Stefan Regmunt, Bishop Stanisław Napierała, Bishop Tadeusz Rakoczy, Bishop Jan Tyrawa or the recently deceased Bishop Edward Janiak.
In fact, there are still a few cases concerning the cover-up of pedophilia by successive hierarchs waiting to be resolved. But there is no denying that in terms of the scale of sexual abuse and covering up pedophilic scandals, the Polish episcopate does not stand out in any particular way against the background of the entire Church. On the other hand, although it was held differently for many years, it was confirmed that we had built a culture of silence and consent to sexual abuse.
Briefly: Francis willingly imposes symbolic punishments on Polish hierarchs - especially those who retire - but in the face of their solidarity and corporate loyalty, he will not risk a conflict. Besides, even if he wanted to, there was nobody to replace the current bishops. The example of bp. Mirosław Milewski from Płock shows that the younger generation can be as problematic as the older generation: known for the conservative and homophobic statements of the hierarch, he learned English living in a one-room apartment of an unmarried Polish woman in England. The lessons had to be super-intensive, because she sent her mother to Poland for the duration of the lessons, and the bishop had problems with getting to the parish church.
And one last thing: there are still enough people in the Vatican who make sure that no Polish bishop gets a hair off his head. It is primarily the fruit of John Paul II's long pontificate. Vatican officials working in individual congregations usually owe their positions and careers to Pope Wojtyla and the former gray eminence of Rome, Card. Stanisław Dziwisz.
They also ensure that only the messages that should reach Francis reach Francis. It is not for someone to become pope and then worry him about bad news. If Francis wanted to get to know the true image of the Polish Church, he should throw the documents that the Holy See employees put on his desk on his desk and make an ordinary press about the Polish Church. Or read the appeal of Polish Catholics who wrote to him, also publishing their text in the Italian daily "La Repubblica": "We are begging you! Look with concern at the Church in Poland, where cases of pedophilia have been confirmed, and loyalty to institutions is blind and deaf, more important than the good of the victims ”.
And they sang "Barca"
It is not surprising then that Archbishop Stanisław Gądecki, with his typical zero sense of social mood, allegedly reminded the Pope that "pedophile priests have carte blanche", and then lamented that bishops who covered them, but are not pedophiles themselves, are doomed "as if to civil death (...). He is removed from office, becomes infamy and is as if annihilated by the media! ”. And if such a bishop molested, he would have a carte blanche!
The hierarch, deprived of a sense of decency, did not mention the real victims - he was too devastated by the fate of his fellow bishop, the most famous bishop , Sławoj Leszek Głódź, whom the Pope sentenced to torture a pension with a general's salary in a palace built from unclear sources. Archbishop was in good mood as well. Wacław Depa, who commented on his stay in the Vatican: "The bishops did not go to the carpet, these were the expectations of the media." And he added that "the fight against pedophilia among clergy is not a priority for the Church." Judging by the achievements of his colleagues, the metropolitan of Częstochowa told the truest truth.
Archbishop Marek Jędraszewski went the furthest in underestimating the need to change the course of the Polish Church, who smugly said that the Pope not only did not scold them, but also praised them and said that "the Church in Poland is the lungs of the entire European Church" - I think it meant him about covid lungs. If the Polish bishops are to be believed, the meeting with Franciszek resembled meetings of the provincial secretaries of the PZPR with the First Secretary, because it was decided that "it should be strengthened", the successes in "building" were congratulated, and only instead of the "International", "Barca" was sung to celebrate St. John Paul II.
We irony, but we remind you: we have already written earlier that the bishops will spend a nice time in Rome and that a hair will not fall off their heads. Perhaps they even had a moment to meet the former nuncio, Archbishop. Józef Kowalczyk, to whom almost everyone owes the bishop's piuski and the fact that subsequent scandals or antics do not strain the papal attention. And even when the pope orders that cases be investigated, the sentences are mild, sometimes even offensive to the victims, or the commission's findings are secret and remain a mockery of common knowledge, like the famous investigation into the case of the Archbishop. Wiktor Skworc, who not only hid a pedophile priest by transferring him from parish to parish, but also cooperated with the PRL Security Service. The bishops left, listened to what Francis had to say - and they continue to do their job. You can clearly see that the naive one is who expects reflection and any changes from the hierarchs. Not to mention decency.
Catholics vote with their feet
But are we not picking on? Maybe the Church in Poland is really in good condition and the Churches in Europe look at it with envy? Maybe the pews are full, young people are pounding at seminars with doors and windows, and trust in the bishops is at the level of the Virgin's trust? Bishops have pastoral strategies written down for years? So we confront the well-being of our hierarchs with something as uncomfortable as facts.
Some parishes of the Lodz diocese have reported that in 2021 the number of faithful attending Sunday mass barely exceeds 10 percent. - and it is about rural parishes. In city parishes, the devastation after the pandemic and the years of "good change", which turned out to be more valuable for the bishops than the Good News, is probably even greater. For comparison - two years ago it was slightly above 20 percent.
In Polish metropolises, there is a ritual of sending toddlers to catechesis, especially to their First Communion. But it is significant that as soon as children begin to understand what catechists and catechists are trying to convey to them, they enroll en masse from national Catholic indoctrination. Łódź is again dominant, but a similar exodus of kids from religion lessons can be seen in Warsaw, Poznań, the Tri-City, Szczecin, and even Kraków. The number of teenagers in religion is similar to the number of people attending mass. According to the Pew survey from 2020, Polish youth is the fastest secularizing and atheising youth in the world.
This year, the seminaries in Elbląg, Bydgoszcz, Łowicz or even in Drohiczyn did not accept any candidate. This is evidence of a radical crisis. And yet Poland was supposed to be a mine of vocations. We were to re-Christianize Europe, and our "spiritual techniques" were to send new evangelizers into the world and convert Europe. In this lair of John Paul II, Krakow, where Archbishop Jędraszewski, who uses the hateful language, fights the "civilization of death" and other "ideologies", four candidates applied for the seminary. And because the "care" of this favorite of the Polish right is still known from Poznań, it is not certain that everyone will finish the seminar. It is similar in other dioceses.
Moral decay has also spread to the orders which we thought were to be "the island of Catholic decency." The Dominicans, who were heroes of the great scandal, blamed everything on the deceased provincial, Fr Maciej Zięba. After a loud report, no one resigned, no one was dismissed. Nowadays, the brothers are busy washing their hands and covering up the activities of a friend (apparently former) missionary in Cameroon , who is accused by the press of not caring for the children entrusted to him, unclear financial transactions, and even the unexplained circumstances of the death of one of the pupils. The Dominicans carried out a visit, but kept the results secret. Probably out of humility and modesty.
Military ministry (to be fair, also Evangelical and Orthodox) turned out to be completely unnecessary and did not form a single Christian conscience, which can be seen on the border with Belarus. On the other hand, successive chaplains and field bishops speak the language of PiS from the pulpit, seeing victims in soldiers throwing a pregnant woman through barbed wire like a sack of potatoes.
The attitude of the faithful to their pastors is evidenced by the reaction to the message published by one of the bishops after his return from the Vatican. The comments under it were so critical and blunt that the possibility of commenting on the speech of the Archbishop of Szczecin was disabled.
What do the bishops say? They etatize an increasing number of priests as chaplains and catechists, complain that the new Polish PiS disorder gives them too little money and… Exactly: nothing. It turns out that these pupils of John Paul II and his nominees have no, but no vision of saving the Church, which literally burns on every side. Absent during the pandemic, they only popped their heads to thank for the de facto total ban on abortion introduced by the hands of the Constitutional Tribunal of Julia Przyłębska. From the burning building of the Polish Church, you can hear the bishops singing like their beloved football fans: "Nothing happened, Poles, nothing happened!".
All the signs in heaven and earth indicate that Catholics are left alone - with no leaders or pastors. Because it is difficult to expect that the Polish Church will be repaired and will become spiritual leaders by bishops who are responsible for its greatest crisis after 1989. |
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Post by goulangou on Nov 17, 2021 23:52:08 GMT 1
There are too many things (like the Paweł Maliński scandal) that are reaching the media, but perhaps wouldn't have done so a few years ago. It's to naive to say that it all started with the Betanki, however media coverage of Church scandals have snowballed, and snowball effects are hard to stop.
The Church here was bolstered for years by the JPII effect. Today's people of university age don't remember him, and the teenagers dropping out of religion lesson were born after his passing. Nothing stays the same for ever.
Norman Davies predicted an eventual conflict between the Vatican and the Polish episcopate decades ago. If the Polish episcopate (who are basically all old men) just dig their heels in further and respond to change by stubbornness, extremes will appear, and the they and Vatican (already no friend of Radio Maryja and suspicious of the NeoKats) will end up in conflict.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 26, 2021 21:34:47 GMT 1
There are too many things (like the Paweł Maliński scandal) that are reaching the media The protective umbrella over the Church was removed by liberal anti-rightist media when they saw how bishops collude with the ruling rightist party and fully support it, encouraging believers to vote for it in elections. It is a road to perdition those senile bishops have chosen - the Church is going to deteriorate further until 10 -15% true believers will remain. On the one hand, it is a pity coz catholicism teaches and enforces some morality from people. On the other hand, it is a blessing coz there is less chance that PiS-like autocratic anti-democratic parties will again rule in Poland. |
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 4, 2021 22:37:51 GMT 1
Another article which covers the problematic issues in the Polish church and how Vatican handles them. www.onet.pl/informacje/onetwiadomosci/pedofilia-w-kosciele-arcybiskup-wiktor-skworc-i-jego-walka-o-kosciol/ys174p3,79cfc278
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Piegz: the case of Archbishop. Skworca, a papal commission needed immediately
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Today, 20:13
Simon Piegza
Editor and journalist of Onet Wiadomości
The visit of the bishops to the Vatican clearly showed that we cannot count on special gestures or even the ordinary interest of Pope Francis. Also, the recent papal appointment of a new bishop in Katowice may indicate that the Holy Father does not particularly care about the fate of the Polish Church. However, I still imagine that the voice of the injured may pierce the Vatican walls and cause that special Vatican commissions will start coming to the Vistula river regularly. It is high time to do so, for example in the case of Archbishop. Wiktor Skworc.
Many had hopes associated with the visit of Polish bishops to the Vatican and it was not at all naive or wishful thinking. Of course, right after the end of ad limina Apostolorum, some experts explained to us that there could not be a revolution, because it was not for this purpose that the Polish hierarchs flew to the meeting with Pope Francis. However, this does not change the fact that a large group of people longed for the decisive decisions of the Holy Father. To be honest, I belonged to her myself.
What is Cardinal Are you surprised? A pedophile priest abused a 12-year-old girl. He was transferred to other parishes and finally disappeared
Without an earthquake, but also without the slightest gesture of interest
I did not count on the earthquake that took place in Chile a few years ago, where the Pope chased away the entire episcopate, but I was under the delusion that this important meeting could end with important, symbolic gestures. Or at least with one gesture. Although many Polish bishops have something behind their ears, it seemed to me that in this one case, Francis himself would say that the measuring cup has changed and will feel just like a few years ago in South America.
It is about the bishop of Katowice Wiktor Skworc, about whom Krzysztof Bramorski rightly wrote for wiezi.pl: "sufficiently guilty and at the same time innocent enough". However, when compared to the harm of specific people: victims of pedophilia, their broken lives, suicides committed as a result, pain and suffering of entire families, these words do not sound so cheerful. I am writing about it because I personally know the victims of Fr. Marian W., whose story we described on Onet in February 2020 , I also know those wronged by Fr. Stanisław P., whose crimes were presented in the report "Andrzej's Fight with Goliath" a year later. All these people have one denominator: if Wiktor Skworc, as the bishop of Tarnów, reacted differently, many of these injustices would most likely have been avoided.
How Bielsko bishops do not explain the case of Father W. [COMMENTARY]
In September 2020, for the first time, we reported to the Apostolic Nunciature the need for an in-depth explanation of the case of Fr. W., including the role of the former bishop of Skworc. In response, the nuncio, Archbishop Salvatore Pennacchio, assured that the materials sent would be sent to the Holy See quickly by official mail.
In the meantime, another person came to our editorial office - Mr. Andrzej (name and surname to be told to the editorial office), who told his story of sexual abuse by Fr. P. and provided evidence showing that the ambiguities surrounding the decisions once made by Bishop There is more to Skworca.
It was through Skworca, Fr. After injuring many children in Wola Radłowska, Stanisław P. was sent to Ukraine, where today there are more victims. Andrzej himself noticed that a few months after his application to the curia, the pedophile was still teaching children, and Bishop Skworc did not recall him. After the publication of the report about Mr. Andrzej, another person spoke to us, who told us that she had personally reported to the bishop that she knew P.'s next victim, but he did nothing with this knowledge. This is another witness who can testify that the bishop was negligent. This case also went to the nunciature and once again we were assured that it would be treated seriously.
In September 2020, for the first time, we reported to the Apostolic Nunciature the need for an in-depth explanation of the case of Fr. W., including the role of the former bishop of Skworc. In response, the nuncio, Archbishop Salvatore Pennacchio, assured that the materials sent would be sent to the Holy See quickly by official mail.
The bishop asks another bishop to explain his colleague's negligence
On the other hand, the bishop himself behaved completely without seriousness, who only when the case of Fr. P. publicized Fr. Isakowicz-Zaleski and all of Poland started talking about her, and the prosecutor's office initiated an investigation, conducted "data analysis" which revealed "shortcomings and omissions".
Piegza: Cardinal's (Un) clear conscience [COMMENTARY]
The hierarch added that he felt responsible for his wrong decisions and their consequences, so he turned to the metropolitan of Krakow (the Tarnów diocese, where harassment took place, is subordinate to the metropolis of Krakow). Jędraszewski (currently the prosecutor's office is investigating whether he has committed a crime - according to RMF FM, the bishop was to know from 2017 that a priest under his supervision could have sexually harassed a disabled woman, but reported it to investigators only in 2021, although he should have done it four years ago) for him to investigate his mistakes. An even greater paradox occurred in July 2021, when the Archdiocese of Krakow announced the results of its proceedings.
One could get the impression that the punishments imposed on the archbishop are only symbolic and ... imposed by the accused himself. The bishop resigned from several functions , asked for an assistant to be appointed and undertook to support financially - from private funds - the expenses of the Tarnów diocese related to sexual abuse. We checked: the clergyman has already paid in money, but still performs important functions at the Episcopate.
Yes, on the day of the announcement of the "sanctions" Archbishop Skworc publicly admitted that he was experiencing the most difficult moments in his life, but otherwise little has come out of it, and this Katowice-Krakow "deal" has already passed into the recent history of the Polish Church as a "move ahead" of two Polish hierarchs who simply created a situation to solve the problem on their own terms. And all this happens three months before the visit of Polish bishops to the Vatican.
Piegza: Twilight of the era of oblivion in the Polish Church? It remains to be seen [COMMENTARY]
And here we come back to the starting point. Our information shows that in the case of Archbishop Skworca a letter to the nunciature was also written by victims of abuses in the Church. So far, it can be concluded that this action has had no effect. We know from an expert in canonical matters that the case of Archbishop Skworca, to put it mildly, spoiled the nuncio himself. A person who is even more expert in the matter, explained to us that even the most angry nuncio will not take up a heroic fight for truth and justice, when he is only a few years away from a peaceful retirement. The fact is that in Vatican diplomacy, Poland is still considered a prestigious institution, so you can lose much more than gain by doing this - just simple, political pragmatics.
Andrzej, a victim of a pedophile: you spoiled our life, so go into oblivion [INTERVIEW]
Thus, Archbishop Skworc returns from the Vatican not only as a bishop, but as a person who has not felt any consequences of his neglect. He did not even have time to answer a TVN journalist when asked whether the issue of sexual abuse was raised during ad limina Apostolorum , as he was in a hurry to meet the Pope. We also wanted to talk to the bishop many times. When Pope Francis thanked journalists a few days ago for revealing the shameful secrets of the Church and for giving a voice to the victims of abuse, Archbishop When Skworc found out that an Onet journalist was calling him, he immediately put the phone away.
Special commission needed immediately
However, the last decision of Pope Francis - the election of Bishop Adrian Galbas as coadjutor bishop of the Katowice Archdiocese (such a solution was asked by the Vatican, Archbishop Skworc himself) - shows that the pope accepted the self-criticism of Archbishop Skworc without any consequences. Skworca and the penalties he sets. This, in turn, proves that Francis either simply does not know what is happening in the Polish Church, especially in its Katowice part, or, perhaps even worse, is not very interested in it. As an aside, it must be admitted that Wiktor Skworc gave a modus operandiother Polish bishops who covered up the crimes of pedophilia: it is enough to humble yourself in time by assigning penance and there is a chance that you will be able to avoid responsibility. The more so when you are just before your bishop's retirement, like the bishop in office from Silesia.
What can disgusted believers do in this situation? Of course, I do not believe in the summons to responsibility, remorse and miraculous conversions of bishops. I also do not believe in beautiful words that are completely not followed by deeds. As it turns out in practice, the real test for even the most open bishop is the issue of paying financial compensation to the victims, which the hierarchs struggle with stubbornly evil .
We know from an expert in canonical matters that the case of Archbishop Skworca, to put it mildly, spoiled the nuncio himself. A person who is even more expert in the matter, explained to us that even the most angry nuncio will not take up a heroic fight for truth and justice when he is only a few years away from his peaceful retirement - it is just ordinary, political pragmatics.
I still imagine that the voice of those wronged in the Polish Church will pierce the walls of the Vatican and reach Francis, who will really be interested in the case of the bishop of Katowice. After all, i.a. for cooperation with the Security Service by the Holy See, cardinal Henryk Gulbinowicz and Bishop Stanisław Wielgus, and for covering criminals in color ties, a total of nine Polish bishops . Especially that during the times of the former Tarnów bishop, a mysterious series of suicides among clerics and priests took place in this diocese. The case has not been resolved to this day.
Franciszek has already proved that he can make bold steps towards Polish hierarchs. Six months ago, he appointed a special commission which, in secret from the Polish episcopate, investigated the possible negligence of Cardinal Stanisław Dziwisz. We do not know the results of her work yet, but the case of Archbishop Skworca shows that it is probably high time for special Vatican commissions to start coming to the Vistula River on a regular basis.
- I know that at the age of 14 your world collapsed. I can assure you that I will accompany you spiritually, so that you do not lose your faith, do not equate God and a priest who is a sinner - Bishop Skworc said 11 years ago to the sacrifice of a pedophile priest. Unfortunately, today it may itself become the cause of the loss of faith and the moral collapse of the institution it represents.
Do you want to talk to the author? Write: szymon.piegza@redakcjaonet.pl
Read other articles by this author here.
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