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Post by Bonobo on Dec 25, 2010 10:09:22 GMT 1
Oh, I didn`t notice you made two posts and I only looked at the bottom one with the quoted photograph. Thanks. |
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Post by pjotr on Dec 25, 2010 20:41:53 GMT 1
You're welcome!
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 18, 2011 12:55:45 GMT 1
Is still pot /cannabis easily available in coffee shops in Holland? I remember reading about proposed changes in law some time ago. Have they been introduced?
What do you think about the whole issue?
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Post by tufta on Jan 18, 2011 23:01:29 GMT 1
Is still pot /cannabis easily available in coffee shops in Holland? I remember reading about proposed changes in law some time ago. Have they been introduced? What do you think about the whole issue? Yes, also I have noticed Pieter didn't participate for a long time. But I think your assumptions go much too far, Bo!  ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 19, 2011 0:07:09 GMT 1
Yes, also I have noticed Pieter didn't participate for a long time. But I think your assumptions go much too far, Bo! ;D ;D ;D ;D Everybody needs to relax from time to time..... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 12, 2011 20:44:52 GMT 1
Pjotr, what do you think about it?
96-year-old woman confesses to 1946 murder
By ARTHUR MAX, Associated Press – Wed Jun 8, 2:20 pm ET
AMSTERDAM – A murder mystery has been solved — 65 years later — with the confession of a 96-year-old woman.
The 1946 killing of Felix Gulje, the head of a construction company who at the time was being considered for a high political post, roiled the Netherlands, and the failure to find the assassin became a point of contention among political parties.
On Wednesday, the mayor of Leiden, Henri Lenferink, said a woman has confessed to the killing, saying it happened in the mistaken belief that Gulje had collaborated with the Nazis.
Lenferink said he received a letter from the woman, whom he identified as Atie Ridder-Visser, on Jan. 1. Two subsequent interviews with her and a review of the historical archives persuaded him that her story was true.
On the cold sleeting night of March 1, 1946, Atie Visser rang Gulje's doorbell in Leiden, and told his wife that she had a letter to give to her husband. When he came to the door she shot him in the chest. He died in the ambulance, the mayor said, reading a lengthy statement at a news conference.
Visser had been a member of the resistance during the 1940-1945 Nazi occupation. Rumors had been circulating that Gulje was working with the occupation authorities, and he had been targeted in the underground press. His company did regular business with the Germans, and several employees belonged to a pro-Nazi organization.
He was arrested after the war, but acquitted.
After his death it emerged that Gulje had sheltered some Jews and had given money to help hide others with other families. A banned Catholic association also held secret meetings in his home, Lenferink said.
Visser moved to Indonesia after the war, where she met and married Herman Ridder. Childless, they moved back to the Netherlands several years later, also spending a few years in Spain.
Lenferink said police never suspected the woman in the killing.
After disclosing her role, Ridder-Visser met two grandchildren of her victim last month to explain what happened and why she did it, the mayor said. He did not disclose details of that conversation.
Ridder-Visser will not be prosecuted, he said. Although the 18-year statute of limitations was lifted for serious crimes in 2006, prosecutors ruled that the change in law would not apply in this case.
"Even now, after 65 years, the murder should be strongly condemned," Lenferink said. "It is a case of vigilantism, and is unacceptable."
But he appealed to reporters to leave her alone. "Mrs. Ridder-Visser is a very old, very frail woman who hears poorly, is disabled and needs help," he said.
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Post by pjotr on Jun 12, 2011 23:12:48 GMT 1
Pjotr, what do you think about it? 96-year-old woman confesses to 1946 murder
By ARTHUR MAX, Associated Press – Wed Jun 8, 2:20 pm ET
AMSTERDAM – A murder mystery has been solved — 65 years later — with the confession of a 96-year-old woman.
The 1946 killing of Felix Gulje, the head of a construction company who at the time was being considered for a high political post, roiled the Netherlands, and the failure to find the assassin became a point of contention among political parties.
On Wednesday, the mayor of Leiden, Henri Lenferink, said a woman has confessed to the killing, saying it happened in the mistaken belief that Gulje had collaborated with the Nazis.
Lenferink said he received a letter from the woman, whom he identified as Atie Ridder-Visser, on Jan. 1. Two subsequent interviews with her and a review of the historical archives persuaded him that her story was true.
On the cold sleeting night of March 1, 1946, Atie Visser rang Gulje's doorbell in Leiden, and told his wife that she had a letter to give to her husband. When he came to the door she shot him in the chest. He died in the ambulance, the mayor said, reading a lengthy statement at a news conference.
Visser had been a member of the resistance during the 1940-1945 Nazi occupation. Rumors had been circulating that Gulje was working with the occupation authorities, and he had been targeted in the underground press. His company did regular business with the Germans, and several employees belonged to a pro-Nazi organization.
He was arrested after the war, but acquitted.
After his death it emerged that Gulje had sheltered some Jews and had given money to help hide others with other families. A banned Catholic association also held secret meetings in his home, Lenferink said.
Visser moved to Indonesia after the war, where she met and married Herman Ridder. Childless, they moved back to the Netherlands several years later, also spending a few years in Spain.
Lenferink said police never suspected the woman in the killing.
After disclosing her role, Ridder-Visser met two grandchildren of her victim last month to explain what happened and why she did it, the mayor said. He did not disclose details of that conversation.
Ridder-Visser will not be prosecuted, he said. Although the 18-year statute of limitations was lifted for serious crimes in 2006, prosecutors ruled that the change in law would not apply in this case.
"Even now, after 65 years, the murder should be strongly condemned," Lenferink said. "It is a case of vigilantism, and is unacceptable."
But he appealed to reporters to leave her alone. "Mrs. Ridder-Visser is a very old, very frail woman who hears poorly, is disabled and needs help," he said.Bo, The case was on the Dutch television, on the radio, discussed in Newspapers and in magazines. It is a very tragic story, and an example how dangerous a disguise can be. I don't know if you can call this a case of " friendly fire" or a grave mistake of the Dutch resistance?  Atie Ridder-Visser The murdered Felix Guljé and his wife. She thought she killed a traitorShe had the opinion that the family of the man she killed was entitled to know why she killed him. Earlier this year she decided - 96 years now, deaf and handicapped, but still mentally sharp - to write a letter to Henri Lenferink, the mayor of Leiden. And in this way the case of the murder on March 1, 1946 of Felix Gulje is resolved after 65 years. The murder caused a lot of commotion back then. The 52-year-old Gulje was an important man, he was named as a future minister of trade and industry. Meanwhile he was also suspected of collaborating with the Germans. The company where he was the Director, the Dutch Engineering workshops, with some regularity received commissions from the German occupiers. There also worked a number of NSB people (Dutch Nazi's and traitors). But actually Gulje was, like his murderer, a resistance fighter. He was hiding Jews in his home and held banned meetings in his living room for the General Catholic Employers Association, which he headed. The 96-year-old woman never knew this fact, nor that Gulje after his death was found innocent. After the murder she had deliberately not read newspapers, and not long after that she moved to the Dutch Indies (Indonesia). In 1982 she received a Verzetsherdenkingskruis (Resistance cross) for its resistance during the war. She was never a suspect in the case. Back to March 1, 1946. There's wet snow. Together with two colleagues from the Political Investigation - the service of the Dutch resistance which was specifically created to track down Dutch nationals who cooperated with the German and Austrian Nazi's in the Netherlands during the Second World War - the resistance hero Atie Ridder-Visser makes plans to murder Gulje. She must do it because she is the only one who had a gun. And the murder was her idea. The two men are on the lookout while she rings the doorbell at the villa on the Van Slingelandt Avenue in Leiden. Gulje's wife opened the door. Atie asks Gulje's wife if she may speak to her husband, she has a message for him. Back in the living room Mrs. Gulje heared a bang. She finds her husband seriously injured in the doorway. Shortly after arriving at the hospital, he succumbs. The 96-year-old woman Atie Ridder-Visser declared more than sixty years later to Leiden Mayor Lenferink that she in her view had murdered a traitor, a collaborator. The murder has never left the minds of the family of Gulje. Especially the eldest son, Eugene, was firm on tracking down his father's killer. " He searched, rest the case, searched again, thought it was better that he did not know who did it, searched again looking back and even called for the amendment which now close relative of the person can see files," writes Marian Spinhoven, who wrote book about Eugene Gulje's life. Eugene died two years ago. Three other children of Gulje got to know the truth. They are in disbelief and indignation, explains a spokesman for the family. If the killers of Gulje had invested his case, then " this murder was not committed" and " much suffering prevented". Lenferink sent the letter of the 96-year-old woman to the prosecutors. They declared that no inquiry will be started. The case is barred under the laws in 1946 were: eighteen years after the crime.  Labour mayor of Leiden Henri Lenferink |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 12, 2011 23:22:23 GMT 1
Is still pot /cannabis easily available in coffee shops in Holland? I remember reading about proposed changes in law some time ago. Have they been introduced? What do you think about the whole issue? Bo, The new government is strict and introduced new laws preventing foreigners to buy and use softdrugs (pot /cannabis) in the Netherlands. The new law requires the Dutch Cannabis users to have a pass and therefor be registrated. In that way the Dutch government hopes that foreign drugstourists from Germany, France and Belgium who come to the Netherlands to by pot and Cannabis will be discouraged to visit the Netherlands for this purpous. Dutch people too can't buy pot in the future without a softdrugs pass. Pieter |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 14, 2011 12:21:38 GMT 1
In that way the Dutch government hopes that foreign drugstourists from Germany, France and Belgium who come to the Netherlands to by pot and Cannabis will be discouraged to visit the Netherlands for this purpous. Pieter Why does the government suppose they need to be discouraged? |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 14, 2011 12:30:29 GMT 1
Bo, The case was on the Dutch television, on the radio, discussed in Newspapers and in magazines. It is a very tragic story, and an example how dangerous a disguise can be. I don't know if you can call this a case of " friendly fire" or a grave mistake of the Dutch resistance? I call it neither. The only words that come to my mind are the ones about blatant murder. 1 year after Holland was liberated, she decided to kill a traitor? Was she crazy? Collaborators were killed during the war to prevent them from harming innocent people. After the war it was enough to put them in prison for what they did, not kill them. Unless they wanted to take a cruel revenge. But in that case they should check the man thouroughly. The woman, her partners and their deed should be stigmatised for future generations to learn. |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 14, 2011 23:13:56 GMT 1
Bo, The case was on the Dutch television, on the radio, discussed in Newspapers and in magazines. It is a very tragic story, and an example how dangerous a disguise can be. I don't know if you can call this a case of " friendly fire" or a grave mistake of the Dutch resistance? I call it neither. The only words that come to my mind are the ones about blatant murder. 1 year after Holland was liberated, she decided to kill a traitor? Was she crazy? Collaborators were killed during the war to prevent them from harming innocent people. After the war it was enough to put them in prison for what they did, not kill them. Unless they wanted to take a cruel revenge. But in that case they should check the man thouroughly. The woman, her partners and their deed should be stigmatised for future generations to learn. Bo, In the Netherlands after the war there was a society in which traitors, the former resistance and the indifferant or neutral majority lived side by side. The resistance like in Poland was devided in several groups. But I thin the resistance in the Netherlands was split in more directions than in Poland maybe. You had Catholic resistance, Protestant resistance, student resistance, socialist resistance, communist resistance, liberal resistance and etc. Unfortunately amongst the resistance there were unreliable, amateuristic and adventurous people and thugs too. Liquidations, executions and abuse of innocent people also took place in resistance circles, and murders were part of that. Not all resistance people were good people. And this is only one example. Some or many resistance people after the war were not happy with the Dutch legal system who were patient or forgiving towards traitors who were responsable for the arrests, torture, killing, gassing or hungerdeath of comrades and friends in concentration camps during the war. There are more cases of assasinations after the war, and for decades families of Dutch nazi's were pariahs in the Dutch society, a person associated with the NSB was labeled " wrong". He or she was " wrong" during the war. That word " fout" (wrong) has a very heavy meaning in Dutch. Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 15, 2011 8:13:48 GMT 1
Bo,
I just heard on Dutch national radio that there were 500 cases of liquidations in the end of the war and after the war. A lot of cases was revenge, an eye on an eye and a tooth on a tooth. The Dutch historian who spoke about it did not agree with it. He wrote a book in Dutch "The right on retribution".
There were more injust murders, liquidations or lynchings. Hatred, revenge, stir ups and labeling of people was the case. A society was split not only due to pillarisation, but also because people were "Good" (Goed = The people who were anti-German, resistance people, and people who did not collaborate with the German Nazi's) and there were the people who were "wrong" ("fout", the Pro-German people, called Deutschfreundlich, Pro-Nazi, Dutch Nazi and opportunistic people who earned from the war and the Nazi occupation). The largest group of people was ofcourse not "Good" or "wrong", but in the middle, neutral or just surviving, a-political, not involved with nazi issues not with the resistance. Life went on, people had jobs, private lives and had to survive!
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 15, 2011 12:57:40 GMT 1
Bo, I just heard on Dutch national radio that there were 500 cases of liquidations in the end of the war and after the war. A lot of cases was revenge, an eye on an eye and a tooth on a tooth. The Dutch historian who spoke about it did not agree with it. He wrote a book in Dutch " The right on retribution". There were more injust murders, liquidations or lynchings. Hatred, revenge, stir ups and labeling of people was the case. A society was split not only due to pillarisation, but also because people were " Good" ( Goed = The people who were anti-German, resistance people, and people who did not collaborate with the German Nazi's) and there were the people who were " wrong" (" fout", the Pro-German people, called Deutschfreundlich, Pro-Nazi, Dutch Nazi and opportunistic people who earned from the war and the Nazi occupation). The largest group of people was ofcourse not " Good" or " wrong", but in the middle, neutral or just surviving, a-political, not involved with nazi issues not with the resistance. Life went on, people had jobs, private lives and had to survive! I may be wrong but I think that those acts of post-war revenge were comitted by people who prefered to stay away from anti-Nazi activity during the war and decided for action when it finished and the hazard decreased substantially (no risk of being captured by Nazis, tortured, sent to death camp, etc) |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 15, 2011 17:10:33 GMT 1
Bo, I just heard on Dutch national radio that there were 500 cases of liquidations in the end of the war and after the war. A lot of cases was revenge, an eye on an eye and a tooth on a tooth. The Dutch historian who spoke about it did not agree with it. He wrote a book in Dutch " The right on retribution". There were more injust murders, liquidations or lynchings. Hatred, revenge, stir ups and labeling of people was the case. A society was split not only due to pillarisation, but also because people were " Good" ( Goed = The people who were anti-German, resistance people, and people who did not collaborate with the German Nazi's) and there were the people who were " wrong" (" fout", the Pro-German people, called Deutschfreundlich, Pro-Nazi, Dutch Nazi and opportunistic people who earned from the war and the Nazi occupation). The largest group of people was ofcourse not " Good" or " wrong", but in the middle, neutral or just surviving, a-political, not involved with nazi issues not with the resistance. Life went on, people had jobs, private lives and had to survive! I may be wrong but I think that those acts of post-war revenge were comitted by people who prefered to stay away from anti-Nazi activity during the war and decided for action when it finished and the hazard decreased substantially (no risk of being captured by Nazis, tortured, sent to death camp, etc) Bo, There is a Dutch ironical joke about that " There were a lot of resistance fighters after the war, more than there were in the war". Often the biggest heroes, hardly speak about the war, they tried hard to built up a new country after the war, because like in Poland a lot was damaged by the German Nazi's. They had stolen our Industry (machinery was dismantled by the Nazi's and transported to Germany) and Livestock (cows, pigs and horses). You had an ethical, brave, couragious, well organised Resistance in the Netherlands who did good work. Liquidations of real, mean, bad traitors, who were responsable of rounds up (łapanka), betrayal of people, hunting people who helped people who were hiding for the Nazi's and the people who were actually hidden (jews, people who refused to work for the Germans in Germany -Dutch people were forced to work in Germany-, allied pilots who were shot down, resistance people and etc.) by others who hide them. Some of the real Resistance sabotaged trains, registration centres for people (the racist pass system; Ausweis), organised strikes against the persecution of jews ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_strike ) The majority of Dutch were bystanders but approximately ten percent were involved in resistance activities and perhaps a fraction of one percent of those in the resistance took up the dangerous work of trying to hide or otherwise rescue Jews. Miep Gies, the woman who tried to save Anne Frank and her family, is one of the most famous because of the wide dissemination of The Diary of Anne Frank, but there were thousands of others, notably Geertruida Wijsmuller-Meijer, who saved many Jewish children, and Dutch consul in Lithuania Jan Zwartendijk, who saved some 3 000 to 6 0000 people. But also including Corrie ten Boom, industrialist Frits Philips, publisher Geert Lubberhuizen, the (Roman-Catholic) writer Godfried Bomans, and also Hetty Voute, Gisela Wieberdink, Rut Matthijsen, Piet Meerberg, Heiltje Kooristra, and Ted Leenders, M.J.Bultena in Uithuizen who was hunted and shot to death by the Nazis after World War II was over, for helping so many, see commemorative stone on Bultenastraat Uithuizen. Books that report on these individuals include the Corrie ten Boom classic The Hiding Place, No Time for Tears, the story of Truus Wijsmuller-Meijer, The Heart Has Reasons: Holocaust Rescuers and Their Stories of Courage by Mark Klempner, Rescuers: Portraits of Moral Courage in the Holocaust by Malka Drucker, Saving the Children by Dutch historian Bert Jan Flim, and Miep Gies' own book, Remembering Anne Frank. Of course, The Diary of Anne Frank also provides vivid descriptions of the efforts Miep and her husband made to try to help the Frank family survive, and keep their hiding place from being discovered by the Nazis, as well as from those Dutch who were collaborating with the Nazis. These days in Amsterdam, visitor may visit both the Anne Frank House and the Resistance Museum to learn more about efforts the Dutch made to resist the Nazis and to protect those targeted by the Nazis for destruction. |
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