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Post by Bonobo on Sept 2, 2008 14:56:37 GMT 1
On 1 September 1939 WW2 started when Germans attacked Poland. The occupation that followed was the most horrific experience Poles had ever been exposed to in the history of their country and nation. German managed to complete the annihilation of Polish Jews (3 million) and killed or caused the death of about 2.5 million ethnic Poles. The occupation lasted for 6 years. 6 years of oppression: war crimes, executions, hunger, expulsions, desease, suppressed Rising, total debasement (Poles and other East nations were considered as Untermenschen by Germans, subhumans). Finally, Germans lost the war. When Soviets liberated Poland, those German civilians who didn`t run away and stayed in their homes on territories which came back to Poland, became the target for Polish revenge. Sad but true. The most spectacular example of innocent Germans` suffering after the war was concentration camps run by the newly created communist militia. Of course, not all memebers were communists. But they were all Poles, either ethnic or Jewish. Germans who were moved to these camps underwent the same oppression that had been the part of Polish/Jewish life during the war: they were murdered at will, robbed, raped, debased. Polish-born German uses own history to heal wounds of WWII news.sawf.org/Lifestyle/52679.aspx ALEKSANDROW KUJAWSKI, Poland (AFP) - One of those trying to heal them is Gustav Bekker, 71, a Polish-born German whose own history is a snapshot of the painful era.
Bekker's father, an ethnic German shoemaker, was killed by Poland's communist security forces in 1945. His body was never found.
"Maybe he's in the garden next to the mill where German civilians were held, or maybe in a quarry," Bekker told AFP in near-perfect Polish.
For the past decade Bekker, who lives near Dresden in eastern Germany, has returned regularly to his former homeland in a personal drive to reconcile long-time enemies.
On Saturday in Aleksandrow Kujawski, his old home town 200 kilometres (120 miles) northwest of Warsaw, unveiled a memorial to his father and dozens of other ethnic Germans killed there.
Bekker has already put up a similar memorial in nearby Potulice, the site of a camp where he was held as a child, and at Nieszawa, where ethnic German civilians were drowned by their Polish captors.
Moves to remember German war victims are rare in Poland.
The country remains traumatised by the Nazi occupation which claimed five million lives, including the three million Polish Jews who perished in the Holocaust.
Many Germans, meanwhile, remember hundreds of thousands of compatriots who died as millions were expelled from territory in eastern Europe lost after the Nazis' defeat.
Bekker's memorial project is a symbol of unity in mourning.
He paid for the six-metre (20-foot) cross, a local craftsman made the German- and Polish-inscribed plaque, the mayor covered the construction costs and local resident Malgorzata Cilke offered part of her garden next to the mill.
The memorial plaque does not cast blame, reading simply: "In memory of the innocent German victims who lost their lives in 1945 in the mill".
"I didn't need the word 'murdered'. This is fine," said Bekker.
Cilke, 62, whose own father was held in a German concentration camp, said even the chosen wording would have been impossible before Poland's communist regime fell in 1989.
"In communist propaganda, calling Germans 'victims' was banned. Only Poles could be victims," she explained.
"We need to remember all the victims, to reveal the hidden truth, even if it's hard and shameful," she added.
Gustav Bekker (right), in front of the memorial in honour of the death of his father in Aleksandrow Kujawski, Poland
The Bekkers were typical ethnic Germans in what had been the borderland of the German Empire and Tsarist Russia, which carved up Poland in the 18th century.
Aleksandrow Kujawski, on the Russian side, became part of newly-independent Poland after World War I.
Everything changed in 1939, when Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler invaded Poland.
"Before World War II, we were Polish citizens who had been living in Poland for generations. So we'd never voted for Hitler, and we never asked him to come here," said Bekker.
By default, ethnic Germans became citizens of the Nazi Third Reich, which classed Poles and Jews as "subhumans".
Some backed the Nazis, but not all.
However, as the Soviet army swept the Nazis from Poland in 1944-1945 and imposed communist rule, ethnic Germans were labelled "enemies of the people" and detained.
The eight-year-old Bekker was forced to wear clothes daubed with swastikas, and was abused as a "little Hitler" by Polish children when he was sent to work on a farm.
"Every German was seen as a Nazi occupier and responsible for wartime atrocities," explained Andrzej Ciesla, the town's mayor.
Bekker's father was arrested in January 1945 by a Soviet officer and the Polish communist police and sent to the mill.
"The guards at the mill were drifters, criminals and drunks who had free rein," said Ciesla.
Bekker said: "At night, the guards picked their victims. On February 14, 1945, it was the turn of my father and another German, who somehow survived."
Bekker, his mother and sister were held until 1948 in a former Nazi camp at Potulice, where several thousand German civilians died of ill-treatment, hunger and disease.
They were stripped of their Polish citizenship and expelled to their "homeland" in Germany.
"To the end of her days, my mother kidded herself, hoping my father was still alive somewhere in Siberia. She thought the Poles would never have been able to kill that humble shoemaker whose shoes many of them wore," Bekker said.
Polish-born German Gustav Bekker next to the memorial in honour of the death of his father, killed in World War II
Polish historian Witold Stankowski said tens of thousands of ethnic Germans perished between 1945 and 1950 in 1,035 Polish camps.
But he underlined that millions died in the 5,800 camps and Jewish ghettos set by the Nazis in occupied Poland.
Bekker also wants to pay homage to Polish victims.
Back in Dresden, he is planning a memorial to a group of Polish women from the anti-Nazi resistance who were guillotined there.  Gustav Bekker next to the memorial erected in honour of his father and dozens of other ethnic Germans killed in Poland |
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Post by Bonobo on Sept 2, 2008 15:14:05 GMT 1
There were more camps were Germans were imprisoned. Some of them were Volksdeutsche, the ones who actively supported the Nazi regime and committed crimes during the war. But most were normal German citizens who never took part in Nazi actions.
Most known camps for Germans were ex Nazi camps built during the war for Poles and Jews.
Potulice - Central Labour Camp Potulice (Polish: Centralny Obóz Pracy w Potulicach) was a detention centre for Germans and Poles established by Polish Communist authorities after the end of World War II in Potulice, in place of the former German Nazi Potulice concentration camp. The camp was in operation since 1945 until 1950.
A total of 30,211 people were imprisoned in the camp during this period. At least 2,915 of the inmates died (other sources mention 4,500 or 5,000 victims), mostly in result of epidemic conditions prevailing in the camp. The dead were buried in a mass graves.
In 1950 the camp was transformed into a prison for Polish political and later for criminal prisoners. Today it is a prison with space for 1,446 inmates.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Labour_Camp_Potulice
The Zgoda labour camp was a concentration camp for Germans and Silesians in Communist Poland operated in 1945 in Świętochłowice, Silesia, (nowadays Poland).
It was formerly a labour subcamp (Arbeitslager Eintrachtshütte) of the Nazi concentration camp Auschwitz, opened in Świętochłowice in 1943, in operation until January 1945.The Eintrachthütte labour camp operated from 1943-May-26 to January 1945 as a subcamp of Auschwitz-Birkenau with commanders SS-Hauptscharführer Josef Remmele (from the creation to July 1944) and SS-Hauptscharführer Wilhelm Gehring (from 1944-July-18 to the end of camp operation on 1945-January-23). Both were brutal in relations to the prisoners, involved in tortures, and personally involved in executions carried out at the camp.
The camp was reopened in February 1945 and continued to be used until November, under the jurisdiction of Ministry of Public Security of Poland. It was one of several camps of this type in Silesia.
Between 6,000 and 10,000 people (including many children, women and elderly people) were imprisoned at the Zgoda camp since it was re-opened. Many of its prisoners were political prisoners (i.e., people considered fascists), but the majority consisted of Volksdeutsche and Germans (these two groups encompassed almost all Silesians), with some Poles and at least 38 inmates of other nationalities; often entire German villages were deported to such concentration camps. According to the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, after the World War II, "almost the entire local population (of Upper Silesia) became legally suspect of the crime of treason against the Polish state" [1]. At least 1,855 lost their lives at the Zgoda camp from February until November 1945, many because of a typhus epidemic, over 600 in August alone. This figure includes only the documented causalities, the overall toll is estimated at 2,500. The inmates were systematically maltreated and tortured.
The camp was considered one of the most cruel Stalinist crimes against Silesian population. Its commanders were Aleksy Krut and Salomon Morel (at first jointly, and then Morel alone). Morel was a former fighter with the communist underground army Armia Ludowa, and later a decorated servant within the Polish communist prison system. He left Poland for Israel in 1992. He was subsequently wanted by the Polish authorities for war crimes and crimes against humanity (Poland requested his extradition twice). Morel died in February, 2007.
The Zgoda camp was closed in November 1945 after a inspection by a commission. The prisoners were released after signing an undertaking, under the penalty of prison, to never disclose the events in the camp.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zgoda_labour_camp
Central Labour Camp Jaworzno (Polish: Centralny Obóz Pracy w Jaworznie, COP Jaworzno) was a concentration camp in Jaworzno, Poland. It operated from 1943 until 1956, run first by Nazi Germany and then by the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of Poland. Estimated over 9,000 people died in the camp, and several thousand more prisoners were executed elsewhere.
Since February 1945, the camp initially served the NKVD and then MBP as a prison camp for so-called "enemies of the nation" (wrogowie narodu). Some of them were German POWs (separately members of the Waffen-SS) and the Nazi collaborators from all of Poland, while others were thousands of local German, Volksdeutsche, and Silesian civilians from Jaworzno, Chrzanów, and elsewhere in Silesia. There were also Poles who were arrested for their opposition to Stalinism, including members of the AK and BCh non-communist and WiN anti-communist Polish resistance organizations.
The camp was soon renamed "Central Labour Camp", and the prisoners mostly worked at the construction of the then-built Jaworzno power plant or in other nearby factories and mines. All of them were interned in separate subcamps, and the guards were soldiers of the Internal Security Corps (over 300 at first). One of the commandants (since 1949), was a Polish Jew Solomon Morel, who previously gained a reputation for cruelty in the camp in Świętochłowice. Others included Stanisław Kwiatkowski, Ivan Mordasov and Teofil Hazelmajer.
According to the (incomplete) official figures, about 1,535 people died between 1945 and 1947 as a result of murder, torture, inhuman treatment, unsanitary conditions, exhaustive work, and hunger (972 of them in a typhus outbreak), out of 6,140 who died in all camps and prisons. Unofficial figures are much higher. According to 1990s research, 6,987 people died in COP Jaworzno, compared to 3,932 in the other major Polish camps (Oświęcim, Potulice, Sikawa, Świętochłowice and Warsaw).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Labour_Camp_Jaworzno
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2009 9:13:02 GMT 1
There were many cases of Poles who saved Jews during WW2. But they are counterbalanced by cases of Poles who murdered Jews during or after the war. And in the background there is a mass of millions of Poles who remained indifferent to Jewish tragedy. Yes, helping Jews was punished by Nazi with death in only one country- Poland. But it didn`t excuse Poles who preferred to stay aside. If there were millions of helpers, the Nazi wouldn`t be able to kill all. The Israel Yad Vashem doesn`t mean much - it is natural that most trees were planted for Polihs citizens. The Jewish population in Poland was the biggest in Europe and pure statistics requires that such population generates the highest number of survivors. So, here, I tend to disregard the number of Polish trees. What do you think? Is calling somebody a Jew in today`s Poland a praise or abuse? Why do Poles see Jews everywhere? Unfortunately, it is an abuse. If they want to humiliate a rival politician, businessman, any person of popularity and influence, they call him/her a Jew. Victims of the most infamous pogrom in Kielce in 1946 when 42 Jews were stoned or clubbed to death by blood thirsty Polish mob.  The Jewish survivors. They were either Jews who had fought in Polish partisan units during WW2 or Jews from the Polish People`s Army created in the Soviet Union. There were also former prisoners of concentration camps as well as some relatively rich Soviet Jews on their way to Palestine.  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielce_pogromThe Kielce pogrom refers to the events that occurred on July 4, 1946, in the Polish town of Kielce. The outbreak of anti-Jewish violence, sparked by allegations of blood libel, resulted in 37 Polish Jews being murdered out of about 200 Holocaust survivors who had returned home after World War II. Two more Jews in trains passing through Kielce also lost their lives. Two or three Gentile Poles were killed by the Jews defending themselves, while nine were later sentenced to death.
While far from the deadliest pogrom against the Jews, the incident was especially significant in post-war Jewish history, as the attack took place more than a year after the end of World War II in Europe, shocking both the Jews in Poland and the international community.
Killings
By 10:00 a.m., the first shot was fired; it is unclear by whom: a policeman, a soldier, or one of the Jews. Violence broke out and the security forces began killing Jews; Dr. Kahane was among the first to be killed (survivors testified that he was shot in the back of the head by an officer of the Army's Main Directorate of Information while he was trying to call the authorities for help). At least two and possibly three Poles, including a police officer, were killed as the Jews tried to defend themselves (according to the official version at the time, the policeman was killed while trying to defend the Jews). After the attack inside the building, more Jews were then forced outside by the troops and attacked by civilians on the street. Some of the victims were thrown out of windows, including one reportedly thrown onto the bayonets raised by the soldiers.
By noon, the arrival of an estimated 600 to 1,000 workers from the nearby Ludwików steel mill, led by members of the ORMO[clarification needed] reserve police and activists of the Polish Workers' Party's (PPR, Poland's ruling communist party) militia, marked the beginning of the next phase of the pogrom, during which about 20 Jews were killed, mostly with steelworks tools. Neither the military and secret police commanders, nor the local political leaders from the PPR did anything to stop the workers from attacking the Jews, while a unit of police cadets joined in the looting and murdering of the Jews, which continued inside and outside the building.
The killing of the Jews at Planty Street was stopped with the arrival of a new unit of security forces from a nearby Public Security academy sent by Colonel Stanisław Kupsza and additional troops from Warsaw at approximately 6:00 p.m. After firing a few warning shots in the air on the order of Major Kazimierz Konieczny, the new troops quickly restored order, posted guards, and removed all the Jewish survivors from the building.
The violence in Kielce, however, did not stop immediately. Wounded Jews, while being transported to the hospital, were beaten and robbed by soldiers.[3] Trains passing through Kielce's main railway station were searched for Jews by civilians and railway guards, resulting in two passengers being thrown out of the trains and killed. Later, a civilian crowd approached the hospital and demanded that the wounded Jews be handed over to them. The civil disorder ended some nine hours after it started.[4]To make it short - Poland wasn`t a loving mother to Jewish people. It was a stepmother. The pogrom would never have happened if not for the climate of anti-Semitism in Poland at the time, where Jews were dehumanised, seen as having been 'punished' in the war, and the myth of the communist Jew, who brought the hated communists to power, was freely spread," said historian Andrzej Paczkowski. The plaque reads: In memory of the 42 Jews murdered on July 4th in 1946 during anti-semitic riots. One of the founders was Lech Walesa.  Unique photos, not published before        old.echodnia.eu/swietokrzyskie/?cat=44&id=238old.echodnia.eu/swietokrzyskie/?cat=44&id=238&l=1#galeriaAn interview with Gross who wrote a book about the pogrom. www.znak.org.pl/print.php?t=pktw&id=165&l=en |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2009 9:53:33 GMT 1
There were Nazi helpers on Polish side too. The Blue Police, more correctly translated as The Navy-Blue Police (Polish: Granatowa policja, name originating from the colour of their uniforms) was the popular name of the collaborationist Polish police in the General Government during the Second World War.
It was created by Nazi-Germany as an auxiliary paramilitary police force in order to keep law and order in the General Government part of occupied Poland. Similar police organizations existed in all of the occupied countries. Initially used to deal with purely criminal activities, the Blue Police was later used to also prevent smuggling, and against the Jewish population in the ghettos.
Their role is dubious. Many of them were members of the Polish resistance. There were cases when blue policemen rescued Jews or refused to shoot them. A few of them have their trees in Jerusalem. However, on the whole, the blue police activity smells of dirty collaboration. A few rightoeus ones are not enough to excuse this formation. What were their most hideous duties, among others?: 1. Guarding the exit gates of the ghetto, as well as the walls and fences encircling the Ghettos or Jewish districts. 2. Participating in the "resettlement actions" in the capacity of catchers, escorts, etc. 3. Participating in tracking down Jews who were in hiding after the "resettlement actions." 4. Shooting Jews sentenced to death by the Germans. Re 4: On 17 November, 1941, eight Warsaw Jews were executed for leaving the ghetto without permission. One witness reported: The execution squad was composed of Polish policemen. After carrying out their orders, they cried bitterly. Resettlement action  German and Polish policemen - a souvenir group photo  A policeman of Poland's "Blue Police" inspecting the documents of a Jew in Krakow.  www.eilatgordinlevitan.com/krakow/krakow.html |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2009 11:10:11 GMT 1
Jedwabne [jɛdˈvabnɛ] is a town in Poland, in the Podlaskie Voivodeship, in Łomża County, with 1,942 inhabitants (2002).
First mentioned in 1455, Jedwabne received its town rights in 1736. During the years 1939-1941 under Soviet occupation, some of local people were arrested or deported to Siberia, a priest Ryszard Marian Szumowski was killed by the Soviets in July 1941. The town was the site of Jedwabne pogrom during World War II.
The Jedwabne synagogue, built in 1770, was an especially fine example of the unique Polish Jewish architectural tradition of building large, domed, Wooden synagogues.[1]
Emigrants from Jedwabne built the synagogue Congregation Anshe Yedwabne at 242 Henry Street in the Lower East Side neighborhood of New York City. [2]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne
The Jedwabne pogrom (or Jedwabne massacre) (pronounced [jɛdˈvabnɛ]) was a massacre of Jewish people living in and near the town of Jedwabne in Poland that took place in July 1941 during World War II.
Although responsibility for the massacre had long been laid at the feet of the Nazi Einsatzgruppen (death squad), recent scholarship by historian Jan T. Gross has indicated that the murders were carried out by Polish neighbors of the victims. The Polish Institute of National Remembrance subsequently issued findings in support of Gross' claims.[1][2][3] Whether and how far the occupying German forces were involved remains the subject of dispute among historians.
Following their attack on the Soviet Union in June 1941, German forces quickly overran the territory of Poland that the Soviet Union had annexed as part of the 1939 Nazi-Soviet pact. The Nazis distributed propaganda in the area[4] claiming that Jews, having sided with the communist Soviet occupiers, were responsible for crimes committed by the Soviet Union in eastern Poland; and the SS organized special Einsatzgruppen ("task forces") to murder Jews in these areas. The small town of Wizna, for example, near Jedwabne in the northeast of Poland, saw several dozen Jewish men shot by the invading Germans under Hauptsturmfuehrer Schaper, as did other neighbouring towns.[5]
A number of people collaborating with the Soviets before Operation Barbarossa were killed by local people in the Jedwabne area during the first days of German occupation.
A month later, on the morning of July 10, 1941, by the order of mayor Karolak and German gendarmerie,[6] a group of non-Jewish Poles from Jedwabne and its neighborhood rounded up the local Jews as well as those seeking refuge from nearby towns and villages such as Wizna and Kolno. The Jews were taken to the square in the centre of Jedwabne, where they were ordered to pluck grass, attacked and beaten. A group of about 40 Jews were forced to demolish a statue of Lenin erected by NKWD and then carry it out of town while singing Soviet songs. The local rabbi was forced to lead this procession. The group was taken to a pre-emptied barn,[7] killed and buried along with fragments of the monument, while most of the remaining Jews, estimated at around 250[7] to 400, including many women and children, were led to the same barn later that day, locked inside and burned alive using kerosene from the former Soviet supplies (or German gasoline, by different accounts) in the presence of eight German gendarmes shooting those trying to escape.[7] The remains of both groups were buried in two mass graves in the barn.[7][8] Exhumations led to the discovery not only of the charred bodies of the victims in two mass graves, but also of the bust of Lenin (previously assumed to be buried at a Jewish cemetery) as well as bullets that according to a 2000 statement by Leon Kieres, the chief of the IPN could have been fired from a 1941 Walther P38 type pistols.[7] Two weapons analysis carried out by the IPN in 2001 and 2002, the second one with assistance from the German Federal Criminal Police Office in Wiesbaden came to the conclusion that "there is no evidence to support the thesis that the Jews had been fired upon at the scene of the pogrom"[9]
Controversy and investigation
It was generally assumed that the Jedwabne massacre was an atrocity committed by an Einsatzgruppe until 1997–2000, when Agnieszka Arnold's Where is my older brother, Cain? and Neighbours revisionist documentary films were produced.
These were followed by a detailed study of the event in the book Neighbors,[12] by Polish-Jewish-American sociologist and historian Jan T. Gross, who described the massacre not as a pogrom but as a deliberate, cold-blooded, mass-murder. Gross concluded that, contrary to the official accounts, the Jews in Jedwabne had been rounded up and killed by mobs of their own Polish neighbours, without any supervision or assistance from an Einsatzgruppe or other German force. He referred to the number of victims (1,600) presented on a memorial stone in Jedwabne.[13] Nevertheless Gross states that this massacre could be a provocation, considering that two main local leaders inspiring the mob to murder, Zygmunt Laudański and Karol Bardoń, were NKVD agents.[14]
The publication of Neighbors in Poland inspired a good deal of controversy on its release there in 2000. There was a basic agreement in the mainstream Polish press regarding the basic accuracy of Gross's findings, although specific details and questions about Gross's methodology were debated by Polish scholars.[15] Polish historians (such as Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski)[16], questioned its conclusions and its methodology.
Following an intensive investigation the Polish Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) released a report in 2002 in which it largely supported Gross's findings, although the IPN's estimated death toll of the massacre (a minimum of 340 Polish Jews murdered)[17][18] was significantly lower than the 1,600 reported by Gross. Since then other estimates have been presented, in the range of 200 to 1000.[19]
Another controversy is related to the extent of German involvement in the massacre.[20] The IPN found that there were 68 Gestapo as well as numerous German policemen present ariving from different local posts, as reported by witness Natalia Gąsiorowska providing a meal.[6] Yet some scholars note that the German involvement is not certain; while many witnesses claim to have seen German soldiers that day in Jedwabne, others had not witnessed Germans in the town at that time.[20] As contemporary court records show, the active involvement of gentile Poles is certain, but the question of extent and nature of possible German participation has not been settled.[20] The IPN concluded that the crime in a broader sense must be ascribed to the Germans, whilst in a stricter sense to gentile Poles, estimated at about 40 men from Jedwabne and a nearby settlements.[21] Jan T. Gross himself praised the conduct of the IPN investigation.[21]
In 2001 the President of Poland, Aleksander Kwaśniewski, officially apologized to the Jewish people for the crime on behalf of Poland.[22] This caused a certain criticism, as some considered Jedwabne to be a solely German crime, while others believed that the whole nation was not to bear responsibility for the crimes performed by some. At that time of the apology the IPN investigation was not yet completed. The commemoration service on the 60th anniversary of the pogrom was overshadowed by the boycott of the service by the majority of the citizens of Jedwabne. When the service began, the priest of Jedwabne started to chime the church bells as a sign of protest. The mayor of Jedwabne, Krzysztof Godlewski, emigrated to the USA due to these incidents.[23]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom
The Truth and the Remembrance
The truth about the participation of Poles in the anti-Jewish actions in the Lomza District and in the Bialystok Region had been for a long time forgotten, and only the recent discussion about "the case of Jedwabne" brought it back to the Polish national conscience, in a very painful way. But nobody can run away from the truth. The remembrance of these [tragic] events is going to face the present inhabitants of Jedwabne, but not only in that town, also in other localities, where Jews were murdered [by Poles] in the summer of 1941. For instance, in Radzilow. There, a mass murder of Jews on the 7th of July 1941 had been performed, on German initiative, by members of the local Citizens' Guard, with an active participation of a group of the inhabitants of the town and the nearby villages. This mass murder [of Jews] has been very well documented. But a commemorating plate on the obelisk erected to the victims of the mass murder [of Jews in Radzilow] still gives a falsified testimony. The inscription on the plate does not properly identify the perpetrators or even the time of the crime. The text reads like this: "In August 1941, the fascists murdered here 800 people of the Jewish nationality, and 500 of them were burned alive in a barn. Peace to their memory."
A note about the author:
Krzysztof Persak (born in 1968) - Historian and research fellow at the Office for Public Education of the Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) and of the Institute of the Political Studies of the Polish Academy of Science (PAN) in Warsaw, Poland. He is co-editor (together with Pawel Machcewicz) of a two-volume study book, entitled "Wokol Jedwabnego" [All Around Jedwabne].
Jedwabne wasn`t an isolated case. There were more pogroms, about 20, in the area.
Here is a translated article from Tygodnik Powszechny, Common Weekly, a Catholic weekly magazine, edited and printed in Krakow, Poland. It used to be the only legal opposition paper during the Communist period and its editors played an important part in the peaceful transformation of Poland in the 1980's: from the founding of Solidarity Trade Union in 1980 to the democratic change of the regime in 1989. This paper and its publishers and editors are also well-known for their positive relationship toward the Jews and Israel.
www.radzilow.com/tygodnik.htm
In the summer of 1941, after Nazi Germany had attacked the USSR, a wave of pogroms against Jews passed through, from Lithuania to Bessarabia, along the frontlines. Inhabitants of the territories which were occupied by the Soviets after 1939 (Lithuanians, Ukrainians and Romanians) took part in these pogroms. In the Lomza District and in the Bialystok Region, Polish people were also among the perpetrators of the crimes against the Jews. The best known [Polish] crimes against Jews, those in Jedwabne and in nearby Radzilow, were not the only ones, though the number of their victims was the greatest.
The outbreak of the anti-Jewish violence caused by local Poles happened at an exceptional time and place. Due to a lack of the administrative power after the withdrawal of the Soviet forces, in many [Polish] towns and villages, people had organized temporary Polish authorities and so called Citizens' Guards, sometimes armed. In the first weeks of a new, German occupation, these local authorities were tolerated by the German Military Administration. Members of the [Polish] Citizens' Guards often initiated or performed the anti-Jewish pogroms. A good pretext to start them usually took the form of revenge against the real or presumed Soviet collaborators. And all Jews were treated as such.
The plunder of the Jewish property had been, seemingly, the main reason for the aggression against local Jews, apart from a purported "revenge for the Soviet occupation." In many testimonies about the mass murders of Jews, including those from Jedwabne, Jasionowka, Kolno or Suchowola, there is to be found information about peasants, who had been coming to these towns from the nearby villages, in order to plunder the property of the [Jewish] victims. Such participation of the villagers [in the pogroms of Jews] was observed as typical also before the war, in that part of Poland. During a pogrom in Radzilow, in the year 1933, four perpetrators, who had been killed by the rifle shots of the State Police, came from outside of town.
t was the District of Lomza, which occupied a special place on a "map" of the anti-Jewish excesses in Poland, in the second half of the 1930's. This fact should be linked to a high popularity of the National Party ["Stronnictwo Narodowe"]. and its ideology, exposing strong anti-Semitism. In the year 1930, in the communities of Wasosz and Jedwabne, over 70 percent of the voters cast their votes for the National Party. It is interesting to recall that the national leader and the chief ideologist of that party, Roman Dmowski, spent the last years of his life in Drozdowo, just about 10 miles from Jedwabne. The attitude of the local population toward the Jews had been formed by the widespread anti-Semitism [of the National Party]. But the anti-Jewish actions, organized in the summer of 1941, probably could fall short of genocidal murder if not for the permission, instigation or example shown by the Germans. Since the first day of their occupation, the Germans were indicating that the Jews were not protected by any law. The [Polish-organized] pogroms of the Jews were parallel to the executions of Jews, performed by the Germans. In a series of the orders, issued between the 29th of June and the 2nd of July in 1941, the Head of the Chief Security Office of the German "Reich," Reinhard Heydrich, ordered to the commanders of the Special Operations Units of the Security Police: "Make no obstacle to any self-purge activity by anti-communist or anti-Jewish circles on the new occupied territories. On the contrary: instigate this activity, without leaving any traces, and if necessary intensify them and push them into a proper direction."
There were also some cases of spontaneous pogroms, such as in Grajewo, Wasilkow or Rutki, where the arrival of a German military unit resulted in stopping of the violence. One of probably the bloodiest pogroms, that in Szczuczyn, was carried out [by Poles themselves] on the night of 27th June [1941], before Heydrich issued the above quoted orders. That pogrom, taking 300 victims [according to similar German and Jewish records], was organized in the absence of the Germans. Some of the mass murders had a purely criminal origin. One of the cruelest ones occurred in a village of Bzury, where some [Polish] men who had arrived from Szczuczyn murdered 20 Jewish women in a local forest. The Jewish women worked in a nearby farm. The bandits had raped some women, before killing them, and after that, robbed their garments.
More sites about pogroms with translated articles from the Polish press
www.radzilow.com/bbcmonitoring.htm
www.radzilow.com/rzeczpospolita.htm
Hey, there are so many of them, but you can find them all here:
www.radzilow.com/holocaust.htm
And the Institute site:
ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/19/194/Joint....ckob_Baker.html
On February 12th, 2001 the Polish Consulate General in New York hosted a meeting between the President of Poland's Institute of National Remembrance, Professor Leon Kieres and Rabbi Jackob Baker, accompanied by Morlan Ty Rogers, representing the Jedwabne Jews in America.
Professor Kieres disclosed the results of the outgoing investigation of the Jedwabne massacre, where in July 1941 an estimated 1600 Jews were brutally murdered. During the meeting Professor Kieres expressed his personal determination, and the determination of the Institute's investigators and historians to establish all existing documentation which would enable to unveil all facts, and in effects the truth, about Jedwabne.
Professor Kieres indicated that all available evidence undeniably confirms the fact the Jews of Jedwabne were murdered by Poles, their neighbors. There is no evidence proving otherwise.
Professor Kieres acknowledged that while the investigation is still underway, there is the need for contemporary Poland to face the historical truth, as difficult and painful as it may turn out, and to acknowledge that there did also exist dark pages in her past. This process also includes the need to replace the false and misleading inscription on the existing monument in Jedwabne, which places blame solely on the Nazi occupant.
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2009 11:10:35 GMT 1
The quote I fully agree with
The Polish debate about Jedwabne has been going on for several months. It is a serious debate, full of sadness and sometimes terror - as if the whole society was suddenly forced to carry the weight of this terrible 60-year-old crime; as if all Poles were made to admit their guilt collectively and ask for forgiveness.
I don't believe in collective guilt or collective responsibility or any other responsibility except the moral one. And therefore I ponder what exactly is my individual responsibility and my own guilt. Certainly I cannot be responsible for that crowd of murderers who set the barn in Jedwabne on fire. Similarly, today's citizens of Jedwabne cannot be blamed for that crime. When I hear a call to admit my Polish guilt, I feel hurt the same way the citizens of today's Jedwabne feel when they are interrogated by reporters from around the world.
But when I hear that Mr. Gross's book, which revealed the truth about the crime, is a lie that was concocted by the international Jewish conspiracy against Poland, that is when I feel guilty. Because these false excuses are in fact nothing else but a rationalization of that crime.
I do not feel guilty for those murdered, but I do feel responsible. Not that they were murdered - I could not have stopped that. I feel guilty that after they died they were murdered again, denied a decent burial, denied tears, denied truth about this hideous crime, and that for decades a lie was repeated.
Who then am I, as I write these words? Thanks to nature, I am a man, and I am responsible to other people for what I do and what I do not do. Thanks to my choice, I am a Pole, and I am responsible to the world for the evil inflicted by my countrymen. I do so out of my free will, by my own choice, and by the deep urging of my conscience.
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2009 11:13:35 GMT 1
One of the most sickening reports about Polish participation in Holocaust that I found comes from the diary of doctor Klukowski, born to a landlord`s family with strong Polish traditions (don`t be misled by his appearance - he wasn`t Jewish)     During the war he was a director of the local hospital in Szczebrzeszyn in eastern Poland, a member of the underground Home Army, a doctor of partisan units from the area (he treated partisans in his hospital). After the war he testified at Nurenberg trials. Later he was persecuted by communists, spent a few years in prison. His son was arrested, tried and sentenced to death for underground activity against the new system. A man of great merits. He witnessed the Holocaust in his town and described it in his diary. www.geocities.com/shebreshin/extermination.html"Diary from the Years of Occupation 1939-1944" Excerpts October 22, 1942 The action against Jews continues. The only difference is that the SS has moved out and the job is now in the hands of our own local gendarmes and the "blue police". They received orders to kill all the Jews, and they are obeying them.
In town some Jewish houses were sealed by the gendarmes, but others were left completly open, so robberies took place. It is a shame to say it but some Polish people took part in that crime. Some people even helped the gendarmes look for hidden Jews.
October 23, 1942
................. While I was gone, the gestapo, local gendarmes, "blue police", and some street people in Szczebrzeszyn again started the hunt for Jews. Particulary active was Matysiak, a policeman from Sulow, and Skorzak, a city janitor. Skorzak had no gun, only an ax, and with the ax he killed several Jews. The whole day people hunted and killed Jews, while others brought corps to the cemetery for burial.
October 24, 1942
In Szczebrzeszyn the hunt for Jews is still on. Additional gestapo agents came from Bilgoraj. With the help of gendarmes, "blue police", and some citizens they looked everywhere for Jews. All cellars, attics, and barns were searched. Most Jews were killed on the spot, but some were taken to the Jewish cemetery for public execution.
I witnessed a group of Jews being forced to march to the cemetery. On both sides of the prisoners marched gendarmes, "blue police", and so-called Polish guards dressed in black uniforms. To speed things up Jews were beaten on their heads and backs with wooden sticks. This was a terrible picture.
Among the bandits (partisans) are many Jews. The peasants, for fear of repressive measures, catch Jews in the villages and bring them into town, or sometimes simply kill them on the spot. Generally, a strange brutalization his taken place regarding the Jews. People have fallen into a kind of psychosis: following the German example, they often do not see in the Jew a human being but instead consider him a kind of obnoxious animal that must be annihilated with every possible means like rabid dogs, rats, etc.
I witnessed how Jews were removed from a hiding place in the rope maker Dym's house. I counted approximately fifty Jews as they were taken to the jail. A crowd looked on, laughing and even beating the Jews; others searched homes for more victims. (...) What happened to dr Bolotny I do not know. Dentist Bronsztajnowa, along with her two young daughters was transported to Belzec. Dr Sztrejcherowa was shot in her own house.
I feel it is correct to give some names of the German gendarmes and members of the "blue police" who were very active in the killing of the Jews. Commandant Frymer, gendarmes Pryczing and Schultz, Polish-speaking gendarmes Mendykowski, Bot, Prestlaw and Syring. "Blue police" - Muranowski, Tatulinski, Hajduczak and Jan Gall. The cruelest of all is Gall, who is even teaching his teenage son how to kill Jews.
All the local scum turned out in the streets of town. Many horse-driven carts from the countryside arrived, and they all waited almost the whole day long for the moment when they could start plundering. News about some Poles behaving shamefully and looting abandoned Jewish flats was heard from different sources. Our locality will not lag behind in this respect |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 22, 2009 11:32:42 GMT 1
About szmalcowniks, degenerates who backmailed Jews and gave them away into German hands. Relentless terror and anti-Semitic propaganda were also taking their toll. With an ideology that turned every civilized concept of morality upside down, the Germans not only threatened with death all those who defied them but also rewarded those who co-operated with them. The Gestapo had paid informers from all ethnic groups, including Volksdeutsche, Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Jews, on its payroll. Some were motivated by racist ideology, some by greed and still others by threats to themselves or their families. Organized crime, a kind of Mafia, also comprising elements from all ethnic groups, fed as it always does on the vulnerability of others. Then there were the marginal elements: the drunks, the punks and the moral and mental degenerates. All of them, collectively known as szmalcowniks-a derogatory term based on the Polish word szmalec meaning lard, were responsible for the deaths of many Jews and of their Polish protectors.
The Jews had to be helped to escape from the ghettos and the cer-tain death that awaited them. But just being on the Aryan side was a crime punishable by death, and the szmalcowniks were poised to exploit this situation for quick profits. Fighting this plague was one of Zegota's greatest challenges. Translated excerpts from the Polish article
Poles have planted the most trees in Yad Vashem. 5874 righteous ones.
However, if anyone tried to "commemorate" those who gave away Jews for certain death, the number of trees would be equal or higher.
German archives prove that szmalcowniks weren`t a marginal problem. The underground press was also full of warnings and revelations about the new group of extortion experts. It is estimated that in Warsaw alone there were about 3000-4000 szmalcowniks.
Jews who lived on the Aryan side were more afraid of szmalcowniks than Germans. The latter were not clever enough to distinguish Jewish facial features. Poles were such experts.
Poes were also experts in psychology. "You have sad eyes - you must be Jewish. You are in a hurry - you are Jewish. You are looking around - you are Jewish." Also people who wore too many clothes were suspicious.
In the beginning szmalcowniks were satisfied with a few hundred zlotys extortion. After the death penalty was introduced by Germans, the sums rose to several hundred thousands zlotys.
Historians used to believe that szmalcowniks were notorious criminals. However, pre-war criminal records prove that less than 10% of them had been law offenders. The vast majority of them became criminals during the war. Among them were blue-collar workers, students, artists, traders, even a count.
Paradoxically, Germans treated szmalcowniks as criminals and exerted punishments on them. The reason was that szmalcowniks bribed German officials and policemen - after the denunciation of a rich Jew, szmalcowniks and corrupted Germans shared the robbed money.
The Polish underground punished szmalcowniks too, but the resources were too scanty, so most executions were carried out on those criminals who posed a danger to the underground itself.
After the war there were very few trials because most witnesses had already been dead or left the country.
We can assume that the majority of szmalcowniks have peacefully lived with us till old age. .jpg) "I know this Jew!"Blackmailing of the Jews in Warsaw 1939-1945.The book is based on the records of German courts from the war-time Warsaw. The book deals with the phenomenon of blackmail and extortion targeting Jewish population of Warsaw From the introduction:
"(...) It is not a secret that in occupied Poland there were people who blackmailed their Jewish co-citizens. Contrary to frequent assertions, "szmalcownictwo" was not a marginal phenomenon but became a source of income to thousands of people. Scores of Warsaw citizens became direct (most often passive) witnesses of the process of extortion, and practically the entire society was aware of the on-going hunt for the hidden Jews. Although it is difficult to estimate the number of Jews betrayed and delivered to the Germans, the murderous activity of blackmailers and informers needs to be seen not only in terms of their immediate victims, but also in terms of deaths of all those who - fearing the "szmalcownicy" - decided to remain in the ghetto and shared the tragic fate of the majority of Warsaw's Jews". The blackmailers' crimes extend also to the victims of the widespread indifference and fear of the citizens of Warsaw. People who, in different circumstances, would have helped the desperate Jews, facing blackmailers and fearing denunciation, closed the door in fromt of those seeking refuge and shelter". |
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Post by jeanne on Feb 22, 2009 15:08:34 GMT 1
These articles have been quite an education for me. I think the education I received growing up concerning WWII was very black and white...very simple...evil vs good...Facists vs Allies. It is now obvious to me the very many and varied levels that made up the evil that took place during WWII. This is the dilemma of all mankind: how to prevent evil from begetting more evil and how to instigate good to beget more good. God help us.
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Post by tufta on Feb 23, 2009 17:09:57 GMT 1
The quote I fully agree with
The Polish debate about Jedwabne has been going on for several months. It is a serious debate, full of sadness and sometimes terror - as if the whole society was suddenly forced to carry the weight of this terrible 60-year-old crime; as if all Poles were made to admit their guilt collectively and ask for forgiveness.
I don't believe in collective guilt or collective responsibility or any other responsibility except the moral one. And therefore I ponder what exactly is my individual responsibility and my own guilt. Certainly I cannot be responsible for that crowd of murderers who set the barn in Jedwabne on fire. Similarly, today's citizens of Jedwabne cannot be blamed for that crime. When I hear a call to admit my Polish guilt, I feel hurt the same way the citizens of today's Jedwabne feel when they are interrogated by reporters from around the world.
But when I hear that Mr. Gross's book, which revealed the truth about the crime, is a lie that was concocted by the international Jewish conspiracy against Poland, that is when I feel guilty. Because these false excuses are in fact nothing else but a rationalization of that crime.
I do not feel guilty for those murdered, but I do feel responsible. Not that they were murdered - I could not have stopped that. I feel guilty that after they died they were murdered again, denied a decent burial, denied tears, denied truth about this hideous crime, and that for decades a lie was repeated.
Who then am I, as I write these words? Thanks to nature, I am a man, and I am responsible to other people for what I do and what I do not do. Thanks to my choice, I am a Pole, and I am responsible to the world for the evil inflicted by my countrymen. I do so out of my free will, by my own choice, and by the deep urging of my conscience.
I don't know where to place my commentary, as it is valid for both threads, Bo. The boundary between evil and good never runs along the lines of ethnical background. In my opinion your presentation is honest with yourself, well thought and done, and there are only very few disputable points in it. These are minor points - which doesn't change the truth that there were Poles who dishonoured themselves through collaboratiion with Germans, (Jan Grabowski in a book you cite estimates around 5 percent of Warsavians collaborated, 70 percent just lived their lifes, witout engagement in liberty movements, their aim was to survive only. And 25 percent were those heroic fighters for freedom.) One of those disputable point is the factual background of the poem ' Campo di Fiori'. You have cited a relations of a witness from Tomasz Szarota's article which excellently summarizes the controversy and you have privided a link to it (thank you!). In my awkward words - there were no joyful crowds in the meaning implicated in the poem. But there is something I found lacking in your presentations. You don't mention the guilts of non-Catholic Poles. Szmalcownicy usually worked in trios - Pole, German and a Jew. Jan Grabowski writes about that: "Na 240 osób oskarżonych o wymuszenia na Żydach /.../ 159 (66,3%) to Polacy (w dokumentach sądowych używa się określeń „Polacy, wyznania rzymskokatolickiego, aryjczycy”), 45 (18,7%) - Niemcy, 36 (15%) - Żydzi i inni. Granatowa Policja - part of the policemen obviously formed the 5 percent of collaboarators and have taken part in the Holocaust as the helpers to Germans. But there was also a Jewish Ghetto Police en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Ghetto_Policethere were Judenrat, there was Rumkowski in Lodz. And there was Calel Perechodnik academic.kellogg.edu/mandel/collins_rev.htmAnd there's a whole Ringelbaum's archive... they were all Poles as well, although Poles of Jewish descent... The boundary between evil and good never runs along the lines of ethnical background. ------------------ Links for Polish language readers www.opoka.org.pl/biblioteka/I/IH/calel_perechodnik.htmlwww.zydziwpolsce.edu.pl/biblioteka/co_nowego/r_k001.pdfwww.kruk.osdw.pl/ksiazka/Perechodnik-Calek/Spowiedz,44386602105KS wyborcza.pl/1,75515,6067299,_Archiwum_Ringelbluma__Dzien_po_dniu_Zaglady_.html |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 22, 2009 7:34:02 GMT 1
Granatowa Policja - part of the policemen obviously formed the 5 percent of collaboarators and have taken part in the Holocaust as the helpers to Germans. But there was also a Jewish Ghetto Police en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Ghetto_Policethere were Judenrat, there was Rumkowski in Lodz. And there was Calel Perechodnik academic.kellogg.edu/mandel/collins_rev.htmAnd there's a whole Ringelbaum's archive... they were all Poles as well, although Poles of Jewish descent... The boundary between evil and good never runs along the lines of ethnical background. I don`t think it is proper to excuse Poles by pointing to Jewish collaborators. Let`s leave Jews alone and let them settle this matter with each other. What I am interested in is Polish Jewish relations during the war and how Jews see Poles today. It seems a vicious circle of accusations and it is hard to distinguish the starting point. Poles accuse Jews of being collaborators to the Soviet regime which partitioned Poland together with Germany, Jews accuse Poles of indifference or even collaboration with Nazis in the Holocaust. A Jewish bitter opinion on Polish attitude today 4/17/09
To: Editor, Am-Pol Eagle
Re: Ed Wiater's "My critics missed the point" column
Dear Editor, Columnist Ed Wiater continues to pontificate on Polish-Jewish relations with a style of myopic reasoning that would not be allowed in any high school debate class.
In his "My critics missed the point" column ( 4/16/09 ), Mr. Wiater attempts to counter a statement alleging that Poland "has not come to grips with its role in the Holocaust" by pointing out that the German occupiers made it a criminal offense, punishable by death, for Poles to assist Jews. Mr. Wiater continues that, despite this threat, thousands of Poles came to the aid of Polish Jews. All quite true. Hence, Mr. Wiater extrapolates that from the demonstrated sacrifice of the 6066 Poles honored as Righteous Among Nations, Poland 's role in the Holocaust is beyond criticism or reproach.
But what Mr. Wiater purposely or ignorantly neglects to mention is that a sizable percentage of the Polish war-time population was indifferent to or even in favor of the elimination of the Jews from their country.
Mr. Wiater has repeatedly cited the efforts of Irena Sendlerowa and Zegota as examples of Polish charity while the largest affiliated political party of the Polish underground government (the Delegatura), the conservative and anti-Semitic National Party (Stronnictwo Narodowe), refused to support Zegota in any way.
Prior to the war, a large segment of the Polish population enthusiastically supported the National parties (Stronnictwo Narodowe and Narodowa Demokracja) with their programs of boycotting Jewish businesses, establishing ghetto benches and numerus clauses for Jewish students in the universities, limiting employment and advancement for Jews in government positions, and even exploring options for removing the Jews from Poland.
Anti-Semitic attitudes continued into the war. Jewish partisan groups were not allowed into Armia Krajowa. Jews in hiding were often betrayed by their Polish neighbors and handed over to the Polish Blue Police or Nazi Gestapo. Deadly, anti-Jewish outbursts broke out at Jedwabne and other towns in the Bialystok-Lomza region, as concluded by Poland 's Institute of National Memory and by historian par excellence, Dr. Norman Davies. During and after the war, Christians who took part in sheltering Jews often kept this information from their Polish neighbors, lest they became targets of anti-Semitism themselves.
Yes, thousands of Christian Poles did come to the aid of Polish Jews and they deserve every possible honor. But let us not draw all-encompassing conclusions from their sacrifice that fly completely in the face of reason and history.
Mr. Wiater's shortsighted apologetics do not advance Poland 's cause, but rather perpetuate the stereotype of Poland as an ignorant backwater.
Sincerely,
Jewish call to build bridges with Poland
Building bridges and mending fences with Poland
Lynda Kraar • Op-Ed
New Jersey Jewish Standard
17 April 2009
Although it was not been widely publicized outside Poland, a deadline has quietly passed for the Polish government's offer of compensation for property left outside its present borders in connection with World War II. This is not related to restitution for property confiscated in Poland by the German Nazi and post-war Communist regimes. Rather, it is compensation offered for property left behind when Poland's borders were shifted west after the war. Poland's eastern territories were taken over by the Soviet Union in exchange for new western territories taken from a vanquished Germany. I was part of a team that processed approximately 250 applications and I had the opportunity to talk to many elderly survivors — mainly Catholic — about their wartime experiences.
This little-known fact presents an opportunity for the Jewish community to build bridges and mend fences with the Polish community, which also finds itself in exile throughout the world, and frequently in close proximity to Eastern European Jewish neighborhoods. It is estimated that 1.7 million Poles were deported to Siberia. Among them were hundreds of thousands of Polish Jews, especially refugees from Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland, who were deported eastward by the Soviets in 1940-41. That we know from documentation that is widely and popularly available. What is less known is that tens of thousands of Polish allied soldiers and refugees passed through British-occupied Palestine during 1941-46, including 6,000 Jewish soldiers in the Polish Army — many of whom stayed behind to help create and defend Israel, including future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin. Nearly 1,000 Jewish orphans (the "Tehran children") also came to Israel in this process.
The stories that are emerging from those who lived in the eastern borderlands of Poland, mostly Catholic children in September of 1939, sound remarkably like those of the Jewish children whose testimonies many of us heard in Jewish schools when we were growing up.
Romuald Lipinski was a 14-year-old schoolboy when Nazi soldiers pounded on his door in the middle of the night, giving his family 10 minutes to clear out toward the Soviet border, never to return to their home. Like so many boys, Lipinski would join the army-in-exile of Gen. Wladyslaw Anders in Siberia, and would eventually be part of the Polish army, which, together with the British Army, fought decisively in the Battle of Monte Cassino. His regiment was instrumental in driving the Nazis out of Italy — a victory for which Lipinski would be decorated as a hero.
"It broke our hearts when our land was lost to the Soviets — we felt totally betrayed by our own allies. We helped win the war against Hitler but lost our homeland to Stalin. But even though we never could return home after the war, we never forgot our Polish homeland," says Lipinksi.
A deportation survivor and resident of Northport, Fla., Marie Gaffney recalls, "The Soviet troopers came with guns drawn in the dead of night and dragged us out into minus-40-degree [Fahrenheit] temperatures, with only a few small bundles of our belongings in my father's hands and me in my mother's arms. They deported us to harsh labor camps in Siberia and seized all our property. Our homes are gone forever, but at least this is a symbolic recognition of the injustice we suffered."
My own mother, who was the same age as Romuald Lipinksi at the time, fled to Siberia with her brother in the days before the Lodz Ghetto was established in the winter of 1939. They were arrested and thrown into the Soviet jails — the infamous gulags — where my mother's brother died and was buried in a potter's field. Mom never realized she was a "survivor" because she did not experience the Nazi concentration camps. It was only after the war, when Mom came to Toronto and became a speaker for the Toronto Holocaust Center, that she realized how significant her little-known story was. Only then did she feel clear of the guilt that she had felt her entire life over surviving when her older brother, whom she had so admired and had depended upon, died. Only then did she realize that she, too, was a survivor.
It is up to our generation to create the dialogue with the people with whom we coexisted for nearly 1,000 years. We share a history, geography, and culture. Now that we Anglo-Polish Jews (who ended up in the UK, USA/Canada, and Australia/New Zealand) and Kresy Poles (who come from the Kresy region of Poland — the eastern borderlands) have been exiled from our Polish home, we have a common "new" language and a perspective. We share the feeling that the clock is ticking and soon our eyewitnesses will be gone. We know that the time is now for the story that needs to be part of the complicated historical account of World War II.
Jews have always been "Na'aseh v'Nishmah" people (from the biblical reference at Mount Sinai: "We shall obey and we shall hear"). Merely knowing that the story is complicated is not enough. The time has come, before our children become too old to learn from us, for us to shape the future and help others who have not been officially recognized for their loss and grief.
Anyone can be an activist. Join a Polish-Jewish dialogue group, or start one. Examine the intrigue, twists, and turns that have been the trademark of relations between neighbors by reading a book like "Between the Pages" by Erin Einhorn, and seeing movies like Andrze Wajda's "Katyn," which was part of the Wajda retrospective presented by Lincoln Center. (See page 31.) It will be widely distributed sometime soon. A British-made documentary, "A Forgotten Odyssey," is another excellent source of information.
While many Jews belong to genealogy groups such as JewishGen.org, they may not know that they can also join the Kresy Siberia Group online, an international special-interest group of more than 750 survivors of the Soviet persecutions and their second- and third-generation descendants. Its objectives are to research, remember, and recognize the persecution of Polish citizens of all ethnic and religious backgrounds by the Soviet Union during World War II. Many volunteers on the list are helpful in translating Polish and Russian documents.
In short, it is not enough for us to visit the death camps and continue to teach our children the horrible fate suffered by our people there. We must also remember the country that was so beloved by the generations before us. It is so much harder to build the bridge than to cut ties. It is our turn to build a better tomorrow.
Lynda Kraar is a founding member of the international Kresy Siberia Virtual Museum project and president of Kraar Associates, a consulting firm specializing in the philanthropic sector. A Teaneck resident, she is the editor of her mother's memoir, "Be Decent: Album of My Life," which will be published in June by the Azrieli Foundation Holocaust Memoir Project in Canada.Polish voice Polish teens more tolerant Polish Radio 16.04.2009
Polish teens today are much more tolerant than those ten years ago, writes RZECZPOSPOLITA quoting results of a survey conducted by the Center For Holocaust Studies of the Jagiellonian University in Krakow. The study involved 1 thousand young people aged 17 and 18. Survey findings show that a large degree of bias and mistrust towards the Jewish community based on negative stereotypes in the past has given way to an open and candid approach towards reality. For example, asked whether Jews have excessive influence on developments in Poland, which is one of the key arguments behind anti-Semitic rhetoric, only 15 percent of the polled replied in the affirmative. Ten years ago such an opinion had been expressed by every third respondent. This is a natural consequence of abandoning anti-Semitic views by most media and what's equally important, by Polish families, comments a noted sociologist from Warsaw University. |
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Post by tufta on Apr 22, 2009 12:11:41 GMT 1
Granatowa Policja - part of the policemen obviously formed the 5 percent of collaboarators and have taken part in the Holocaust as the helpers to Germans. But there was also a Jewish Ghetto Police en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Ghetto_Policethere were Judenrat, there was Rumkowski in Lodz. And there was Calel Perechodnik academic.kellogg.edu/mandel/collins_rev.htmAnd there's a whole Ringelbaum's archive... they were all Poles as well, although Poles of Jewish descent... The boundary between evil and good never runs along the lines of ethnical background. I don`t think it is proper to excuse Poles by pointing to Jewish collaborators. Let`s leave Jews alone and let them settle this matter with each other. Bo, Bo, oh Bo, Bo. And what am I to do with you? I have personal and general remark. General remark will probably shock you a liitle bit. So before you read it, promise me you will take it as a remark from a friend, not something meant to be oppressive etc. Done? Ok, let's go on then. Bo, some Poles of Jewish origin or Jews of Polish one, would say you are going too far in defining who is Polish and who is not Polish. You are doing it in good faith, but it might be irritating when you say ' let's leave Jews alone, and concentrate only on Catholic Poles. Those Jews which you so generously wish to leave aside were, are, as Polish as Catholic Poles. Some will even say you demostrate anti-Semitism, and the ghosts of Endek full-blown anti-Semites of pre war Poland are rolling with laughter in their graves, looking at their ideas of 'apartheid' reborn so ironically.... Personal remark is that I don't find it extremely fascinating when you choose my - taken out of context - posting as an anti-thesis to demonstrate your thesis. I now know you long enough to know your capabilities and I am sure you can do much better. With ease and grace you are capable to promote your opinion without the thesis-antithesis prosthesis. |
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Post by valpomike on Apr 22, 2009 20:39:00 GMT 1
Can't we all, just get along.
Play nice boys. You both can be correct.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 22, 2009 21:01:11 GMT 1
Bo, Bo, oh Bo, Bo. And what am I to do with you? Dump into the River Wisła in Krakow and develop me into a photo in a traditional way??? ;D ;D Whatever you say I take like from a friend, though you are from Warsaw. ;D Yes. I am all eyes. You are probably talking about assimilated Jews. How many in pre-war Poland? Generously estimating, 10%? What about the remaining part of Jews who wanted to keep their customs, faith, traditions etc? Sorry to say it but Nazis drew a clear division line between Jews and Poles during the war. All Jews had to die, even assimilated ones. Poles were spared for a while, unless they put up resistance. The seperation was complete - I am a Pole, I may live, you are a Jew, you must die. You said: The boundary between evil and good never runs along the lines of ethnical background. I am afraid, it did during the war. Unfortunately, the way you recommend to perceive Polish Jews wasn`t, isn`t shared by most Poles, I am afraid. And in forming my own opinion on Polish Jewish relations I take into consideration most Poles` attitude as it actually was during the occupation. The attitude that drives me crazy - indifference at best and hostility or collaboration at worst, with a few exceptions of the righteous. I didn`t impose that apartheid. Who did, who accepted it and who didn`t care? ;D ;D ;D ;D I am sorry if it sounded like that, I thought we are having a discussion.... and as we sometimes disagree and turn down each other`s arguments, I thought it wouldn`t affect you so much, that you are used to it. I am really sorry. Besides, I had to base my reply on some quote. They taught me it is wrong to produce an answer out of the blue. PS. Thank you very much for your brave stand and participation in a difficult discussion. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 22, 2009 21:18:00 GMT 1
Can't we all, just get along. Play nice boys. You both can be correct. Mike Hey, Mike, it struck me you have never expressed your view on the topic. |
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Post by tufta on Apr 23, 2009 8:11:27 GMT 1
I am a Pole, I may live, you are a Jew, you must die. Perhaps in Krakow... In Warsaw it was like that: if you are a Pole of Jewish faith, or your grand or greatgrandparents were - you die today, if you are a Pole of another 'typen' - you'll die tomorrow. Well, if you are educated you will yet die today.... Did I really say something that wise? I agree with that! There were Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish Poles indifferent to German atrocities, as long as they felt they will somehow go though this hell untouched. And there were those who wanted to make business out of the situation, there were collaborators, and there were brave fighters who opposes the logic of war, racism and lack of honour imposed by Germany. Those who oppossed the 'logic' of drawing lines. But you may not know what 'most' Poles think or share. I find much more truthful the first person perceptions. You don't share it. Also, the attitudes of Poles of different faiths, and related - yes, you are right, quite uncomparable situation - is much more complicated than you present. To the the degree that I don't agree with accepting as an axiom, which you seem to do, that in forming your opinion on Polish Jewish relations you take into consideration most Poles` attitude as it actually was during the occupation. I would say that, yes - in good faith and out of noble reasons, but nonetheless you have taken one side in this paramount, complicated problem. You are not a 'merciless' in your observing the truth as it was, you are not mercilessly logical in your drawing conclusions. You have left the intellectual (not moral!) neutrality stance, which in fact you are obliged to hold as an intellignetsia member. The irony of the situation is that in your philosemitic views you are repeating the Nazi logic of drawing lines between the ethinicities. Which, I am sorry, I will never agree with, especially that you are doing it in the name of the dead. Yes, I am with you here. That is why we are in fact on the same side of mental mountain. I agree the attitude of indifference to Jews disaappering from German -occupied Poland may drive crazy. I disagree with 'few exceptions of the righteous'. I think I have already posted here on how many people were needed to save one person from a ghetto etc etc. And, sorry to remind that, I really feel akward reminding it, there were also Jewish Poles equally indifferent, collaborating in the holocaust. And hostile.... This was war, awful war.... As to, difficult discussions. Bo, I like to discuss things with you. As I said -we are mental brothers (in arms  What I find less fascinating is coming back to the same subjects without new data. I know you amy want to discuss something again, and present it on the forum. But why call me? I have said more or less the same things in the past here. You, or anyone else, may agree or disagree or just read it, and... that's it. I haven;t changed my mind. Also I already know, even more,, I can already 'feel' your stance. So wht introduce me at the beginning? You mean what I know? No a poza tym to wszystkiego! ;D ;D |
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Post by valpomike on Apr 24, 2009 3:49:58 GMT 1
I my self, don't know what to think, I am not sure.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 26, 2009 23:03:15 GMT 1
In 1938 Poland annexed Zaolzie - a part of Czechoslovakia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZaolzieZaolzie [zaˈɔlʑɛ] ( listen) is the Polish name for an area now in the Czech Republic which was disputed between interwar Poland and Czechoslovakia. The name means "lands beyond the Olza River"; it is also called Śląsk zaolziański, meaning "trans-Olza Silesia". Equivalent terms in other languages include Zaolší (Zaolží) in Czech and Olsa-Gebiet in German. It is part of the historical region of Cieszyn Silesia, the region which was divided in 1920 between Czechoslovakia and Poland. Zaolzie forms the eastern part of the Czech portion of Cieszyn Silesia.
Historically, the largest ethnic group inhabiting this area was the Poles.
On 5 November 1918, the area was divided between Poland and Czechoslovakia by an interim agreement of two local self-government councils (Czech Národní výbor pro Slezsko and Polish Rada Narodowa Księstwa Cieszyńskiego).[17] Before that, the majority of the area was taken over by Polish local authorities. In 1919 both councils were absorbed by the newly created and independent central governments in Prague and Warsaw. The former was not satisfied with this compromise and on 23 January 1919 invaded the area[18][19] while Poland was engaged in its war against the West Ukrainian National Republic.
The reason for the Czech invasion in 1919 was primarily the organisation of elections to the Sejm (parliament) of Poland in the disputed area.[20] The elections were to be held in the whole of Cieszyn Silesia. The Czechs claimed that the polls must not be held in the disputed area as the delimitation was only interim and no sovereign rule should be executed there by any party. When the Czech demand was rejected by the Poles, the Czechs decided to resolve the issue by force.[15]
On 10 July both sides renounced the idea of a plebiscite and entrusted the Conference of Ambassadors with the decision.[24] Eventually, on 28 July 1920 , by a decision of the Spa Conference, Czechoslovakia received 58.1% of the area of Cieszyn Silesia, containing 67.9% of the population.[24] It was this territory that became known, originally from the Polish standpoint, as Zaolzie – the Olza River marked the boundary between the Polish and Czechoslovak parts of the territory.
On 1 October 1938 the area was annexed by Poland following the Munich Agreement.[35] The Polish Army, commanded by General Władysław Bortnowski, annexed an area of 801.5 km² with a population of 227,399 people. Within the region originally demanded by Nazi Germany was the important railway junction city of Bohumín. The Poles regarded the city as of crucial importance to the area and to Polish interests. On 28 Semptember, Beneš composed a note to the Polish administration offering to reopen the debate surrounding the territorial demarcation in Těšínsko in the interest of mutual relations, but he delayed in sending it in hopes of good news from London and Paris, which came only in a limited form. Beneš then turned to the Soviet leadership in Moscow, which begun a partial mobilisation in eastern Belarus and the Ukrainian SSR and threatened Poland with the dissolution of the Soviet-Polish non-aggression pact.[36] Nevertheless, the Polish leader, Colonel Józef Beck believed that Warsaw should act rapidly to forestall the German occupation of the city. At noon on 30 September, Poland gave an ultimatum to the Czechoslovak government. It demanded the immediate evacuation of Czech troops and police and gave Prague time until noon the following day. At 11:45 a.m. on 1 October the Czech foreign ministry called the Polish ambassador in Prague and told him that Poland could have what it wanted. The Germans were delighted with this outcome. They were happy to give up a provincial rail centre to Poland; it was a small sacrifice indeed. It spread the blame of the dissolution of Czechoslovakia, made Poland a seeming accomplice in the process and confused the issue as well as political expectations. Poland was accused of being an accomplice of Nazi Germany – a charge that Warsaw was hard put to deny.[37]
The Polish side argued that Poles in Zaolzie deserved the same ethnic rights and freedom as Sudeten Germans under the Munich Agreement. The vast majority of the local Polish population enthusiastically welcomed the change, seeing it as a liberation and a form of historical justice.[38] But they quickly changed their mood. The new Polish authorities appointed people from Poland to various key positions from which Czechs were fired.[39] The Polish language became the official language. Using Czech (or German) by Czechs (or ethnic Germans) in public was prohibited and Czechs and Germans were being forced to leave the annexed area or subject to Polonization.[39] Rapid Polonization indeed followed in all parts of public and private life. Czech organizations were dismantled and their activity was prohibited.[39] Czechoslovak education in the Czech language ceased to exist.[40] About 35,000 Czechs emigrated to core Czechoslovakia (the later Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia) by choice or forcibly.[41] The behaviour of the new Polish authorities was different but similar in nature to that of the Czech ones before 1938. Two political factions appeared: socialists (the opposition) and rightists (loyal to the new Polish national authorities). Leftist politicians and sympathizers were discriminated against and often fired from work.[42] The Polish political system was artificially implemented in Zaolzie. Local Polish people continued to feel like second-class citizens and a majority of them were dissatisfied with the situation after October 1938.[43] Zaolzie remained a part of Poland for only 11 months until the invasion of Poland started on September 1, 1939.
Richard M. Watt describes the Polish capture of Teschen in these words: "Amid the general euphoria in Poland – the acquisition of Teschen was a very popular development – no one paid attention to the bitter comment of the Czech general who handed the region over to the incoming Poles. He predicted that it would not be long before the Poles would themselves be handing Teschen over to the Germans."[44]
Watt also writes that "The Polish 1938 ultimatum to Czechoslovakia and its acquisition of Teschen were gross tactical errors. Whatever justice there might have been to the Polish claim upon Teschen, its seizure in 1938 was an enormous mistake in terms of the damage done to Poland's reputation among the democratic powers of the world."Polish troops in Zaolzie, enthusiactically greeted by local Poles.    Long live Polish army.   We waited 600 years for you.              |
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Post by tufta on Apr 27, 2009 10:02:10 GMT 1
On 5 November 1918, the area was divided between Poland and Czechoslovakia by an interim agreement of two local self-government councils. ..... The Czech was not satisfied with this compromise and on 23 January 1919 invaded the area[18][19] while Poland was engaged in its war against the West Ukrainian National Republic. Yes, another controversy, which you love I have thought for a while why such a title for a thread? 'Poles were also invaders and oppressors'. Does anyone doubt the fact that Poles were invaders or oppressors in the past? And why 'also'? Well it's easier, also stands for ' just as Germans and Russians', the main invaders and oppressors of 20th century. Or maybe it stands as well for 'just as Turkey, Mongols, Swedes', all invading Poland in the past? Anyway. Yes, Poles, no matter what religion, language and culture, did opress other nations in the past. If Zaolzie 1938 was such an oppression is a matter of controversy since just 19 years earlier this tiny part of land was annexed by Czechs. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 27, 2009 22:32:55 GMT 1
Yes, another controversy, which you love Exactly!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I virtually feed on controversies. Thank you for taking part in the process..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You always meticulously pick on some details while I try to give a wider perspective.... ;D ;D ;D Are you German? ;D ;D ;D ;D Yes!!! Too many Poles believe that their ancestors, closer and more distant, were pure and innocent, that Poland always suffered unfairly by nasty neighbours. And whenever Poles are enlightened about their dubious actions in the past, they say it was the necessity of the time and they refuse to accept the blame. That is why I created such a thread, among others. To dissipate Polish complacent mood about their past, to arouse their sound historical reasoning, shatter those stinking Polish myths and awaken people`s conscience!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D Why not just as Germans and Russians? Didn`t Polish troops enter Zaolzie just like Russians or Germans did?  ? Oh, yes, there was a difference. Germans and Russians attacked without warning, while the Polish government issued an ultimatum to the Czechoslovakian one. Well, if you want, we can go back into a distant past and explain the Polish role in capturing Moscow in 1612 or Kiev in 1018. ;D ;D ;D ;D You are one of few who are able to admit it. The context of both annexations is a bit different. Taking Zaolzie by Poland meant practical dismembering of the Czechoslovakian state together with Nazi Germany which got a bigger share. Both actions were received with great disgust in Europe because Czechoslovakia was a democratic, well developed country with established political culture. Taking Zaolzie by Czechs in January 1919 didn`t mean the end of the Polish state and took place during the stormy times with new countries being created after centuries of foreign supremacy. |
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Post by tufta on Apr 28, 2009 9:43:17 GMT 1
Taking Zaolzie by Poland meant practical dismembering of the Czechoslovakian state together with Nazi Germany which got a bigger share. Both actions were received with great disgust in Europe because Czechoslovakia was a democratic, well developed country with established political culture. Taking Zaolzie by Czechs in January 1919 didn`t mean the end of the Polish state and took place during the stormy times with new countries being created after centuries of foreign supremacy. Bo, I agree the timing wasn't the best and certainly I am not 'proud' of Zaolzie. But Poland didn't take part in dismantling the Czechoslovakian state togrether or in concord with Germany. She has re-taken Zaolzie against political will and military plans of Germany. If Czech annexation of Zaolznie in 1919 was or wasn't a part of total dismantling of the Polish state was an open question in 1919. Poland fought a deadly fight with the Soviets when the Czechs annexed Zaolzie. Would Poland have lost teh war with Soviets that would be an end of Polish state for a considerable period of time. With all the sympathy and warm feelings I have for the Czech, I must say - that it is in a way not Poland's fault that Czechoslovakia didn't fight with the Germans. They had a modern, well equipped army. As to 'digust in Europe'. Please don't make me laugh, Bo ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 28, 2009 21:28:42 GMT 1
Bo, I agree the timing wasn't the best and certainly I am not 'proud' of Zaolzie. But Poland didn't take part in dismantling the Czechoslovakian state togrether or in concord with Germany. She has re-taken Zaolzie against political will and military plans of Germany. There was no official cooperation, but it looked like that. I am sorry Tufta but this is another Polish myth, invented to pacify Polish conscience. ;D ;D ;D ;D Let me shatter this myth a little ;D ;D ;D ;D
In 1919 both councils were absorbed by the newly created and independent central governments in Prague and Warsaw. The former was not satisfied with this compromise and on 23 January 1919 invaded the area[18][19] while Poland was engaged in its war against the West Ukrainian National Republic.As you can see, there was no deadly threat yet. Bolshevism was still gathering forces to spread revolution into Poland. In 1919 it was Ukrainians who tried to create their own state, but they were weak and soon were pushed out of Lvov by patriotic students and children, Lvov Eaglets. Let me put it another way. It was Poland `s fault not to lend a hand to Czechoslovakia in their fight againts Germans. Later, abandoned by powers, and having been backstabbed by Poles and then Hungarians, the Czech decided to give up any resistance in 1939. Polish politicians gained Zaolzie for a year but later on lost Poland and 6 million Poles. Fools. It wasn`t my intention. I am reporting you the true reception of Polish action in Europe - public opinion turned against Poland. The Munich Pact, sometimes called Munich betrayal. Poland is included as a force taking part in partitions of Czechoslovakia.  1. Germany occupies the Sudetenland (autumn 1938)
2. Hungary occupies border areas (southern third of Slovakia and southern Carpathian Ruthenia) with Hungarian majorities
3. Carpathian Ruthenia received autonomy (autumn 1938).
4. Poland occupies areas Cieszyn Silesia with Polish minority (autumn 1938).
5. In March 1939 the remaining Czech territories becomes the German satellite, Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.
6. From remainder Czechoslovakia Slovakia is created, becoming another German satellite. |
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Post by tufta on Apr 29, 2009 17:15:58 GMT 1
Bo, interesting, but untrue vision. I would say you present the facts to suit your pre-assumed thesis "Poles were also invaders". I understand you are doing this to shatter another pre-assumed thesis you don't like, which says "Poles were never opressors". The second one was used by out forefathers to white wash themselves from the mistakes which led to Poland being subdued. The first one - in the strengthened verison - Poles were mainly oppressors, was used by communists to smear the image of independent prewar or prepartitioned Poland. I disagree with both. Well, not I The history doesn't.... And I don't think you will ever succeed in shattering one myth with another. Besided Bo, I have an impression the whole subject is a little bit too advanced for a forum like this. If you are interested in my complete vision about Czech aggression in 1919 -1920 while Poland was fighting for life first with Ukrainians and then with Red Army, and also about Polish mistakes, bad timing of taking back Zaolzie and so on, please read the short article. It also well states why the phrase disgusted Europe (which badly deceved the Czech in 1938) made me laugh. www.polityka.pl/monachijska-pulapka/Lead30,1139,269455,18/ To close I will tell you that your attitude to Poland on Zaolzie and pre war Polish - Czech relations is by far worse then by my Czech friends |
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Post by locopolaco on Apr 29, 2009 17:25:07 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 29, 2009 20:26:07 GMT 1
Bo, interesting, but untrue vision. I would say you present the facts to suit your pre-assumed thesis "Poles were also invaders". I understand you are doing this to shatter another pre-assumed thesis you don't like, which says "Poles were never opressors". The second one was used by out forefathers to white wash themselves from the mistakes which led to Poland being subdued. The first one - in the strengthened verison - Poles were mainly oppressors, was used by communists to smear the image of independent prewar or prepartitioned Poland. I disagree with both. Well, not I The history doesn't.... And I don't think you will ever succeed in shattering one myth with another. Hmm, I don`t quite understand what you mean here. ;D ;D ;D ;D E.g., what untrue vision are you talking about? Whose vision? Mine? ;D ;D ;D You seem to have a problem with the sentence: Poles were also invaders, but I can`t see what`s wrong with it. It seems to me and I already said it: you focus on semantics while I try to grasp facts. Did Poles invade and partition Czechoslovakia? Yes. Were they also invaders and partitioners like others? Yes. Of course it was on a much smaller scale but not due to Polish sense of morals but limited capabilities. What the heck? ;D ;D ;D You think our members or guests can`t cope with it?? ;D ;D ;D Sorry, but no topic is too advanced for us here! ;D ;D ;D I read it with great interest. Well, the article fully supports my opinion. The author is very critical about Polish invasion and calls it a revengeful partition performed in cooperation with Hitler. ;D ;D ;D He also rebukes modern Polish historians for their approval of the Polish action. Thank you for providing the article. ;D ;D ;D In certain matters I am uncompromising and relentless. Sorry. ;D ;D ;D ;D I am a perfectionist and idealist when it comes to the Polish nation. I just hate when Poles turn out little nasty swine. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by tufta on Apr 30, 2009 5:51:13 GMT 1
You think our members or guests can`t cope with it?? ;D ;D ;D Sorry, but no topic is too advanced for us here! I rather meant the amount of time needed to discuss it properly with all the delicate shades which form the real meaning of a certain historical acts that are being lost. Are you sure? Here's an approximate translation of one of the paragraphs you must have missed....  Poles were a majority in Zaolzie, but the Czechs has occupied it in 1919 when Poland was fighting a war in the East and the allied arbitratory commision has approved Czech's pretences in the summer 1920 when the Soviets were already next to Warszawa (the allied arbitratory commision is the incarnation of 'Europe' that you say was later 'disgusted' at Poland taking the land back). Poles have memorized this act of Czech perfidy and their open sympathies to Russia, they have memorized the partiality of Europe – and they have promised themselves a retaliation in appropriate moment.
And such moment came. Endangered by Hitler and abandoned by Europe, the Czechs agreed to give the German minority in Czech country a broad autonomy, and later they have agreed to give Germany all the lands which Hitler claimed. Poles were closely observing this Sudety crisis and called for equal treatment of Polish minority in Czechoslovakia.
At Munich conference Europe has ignored Poland's claims, which painfully hit Polish pride, interests and the dogma of Polish dimplomacy. Minister Józef Beck announced to president and other ministers that Poland cannot count on the allies and that Zaolzie will have to be retaken – parhaps by force – otherwise part of it will soon be taken by the Germans.Fine, I understand that, even if you exaggerate a bit. Poles are not little nasty swine, on the opposite. But politics is not a game for idealists. On the opposite! You seem to have a problem with the acts of aggression by a Polish state -thus a special thread. I disagree with the facts you choose to strengthen the thesis, not the thesis itself. In this example the main problem is the two sentences I have said why I diagree and later I have provided the article which presents Poland's mistakes, their background together with the mistakes of the Czech side and 'Europe'. I didn't want to first introduce Czechia in this forum with pointing their past mistakes, as this fine country and brave nation doesn't deserve it, Unfortunately even the ubiased article didn't help, as you seem to read only these parts which strengthen your thesis... Bo, my cordial opinion is as follows – with such an attitude to history (up-playing Polish mistakes and misdeeds, downplaying the mistakes and misdeeds of others) we wouldn;t get too far... Look at what the others are doing. Learn something from those old, 'disgusted' and effcient nations, and from the Varsovians! Do we have to perpetually defend you and your Krakow? ;D  Since I am leaving today, I have answered early as I didn't want to leave you suspended for too long. Please answer very, very nicely and friendly in order to make my comeback joyful! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on May 29, 2009 19:17:52 GMT 1
German expellees become election issue
Polish Radio
27.05.2009
Former PM Jaroslaw Kaczynski has demanded that the ruling Civic Platform leave the European People's Party (EPP) after German christian-democrats called for WW II expellees' rights be recognized.
Earlier this week, a joint proclamation by German christian- democrats from both Chancellor Angela Merkel's CDU party and the smaller Bavarian based CSU, said:
"The EU's freedom of movement and freedom to choose a place to live is a step towards the realization of the right to a homeland for Germans expellees, in a Europe where nations and national groups can live together without discrimination because of the past. Expulsion of any kind must be internationally condemned and violated rights have to be recognized."
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of the opposition Law and Justice (PiS) party says the CDU and CSU statement, "questions the result of the Second World War". He added that Civic Platform (PO), the senior coalition partner in the current government, should leave the European People's Party, the European parliamentary group which it shares with the German christian-democrats .
"If Civic Platform is a Polish party then we will hear them announcing that they will no longer stay in the EPP," Kaczynski added.
Speaker of the lower house of parliament and prominent member of Civic Platform, Bronislaw Komorowski, says, however, that Kaczynski is raising the issue to win votes in June's European Parliament elections.
"It has become an electoral campaign issue and will disappear from the limelight on June 8 [the day after the Euro elections]. There is no point in engaging in a problem which has been artificially inflated. However, we should not avoid difficult questions in [Polish-German] relations," Komorowski concluded.
No leaving EPP
Prime Minister, and leader of Civic Platform, Donald Tusk called Kaczynski's words "improper" but was careful to stress who the victims of WW II really were.
"All expulsions should be condemned," claimed Tusk. "However, Poles and the Polish government stress that people responsible for what happened after 1945 are known: they were Germans, Adolf Hitler, the Nazis, the German state, the Third Reich. They were responsible for the effects of the Second World War, including mass resettlements, " he said.
PM Tusk added that though phrases repeated in some German circles can raise disgust, he emphasized that Civic Platform is a Polish party but will stay in the EPP to, "defend Poland's interests".
Grzegorz Napieralski, head of the left wing SLD, said that Jarolsaw Kaczynski is trying to gain votes in the European parliamentary election on June 7 - Law and Justice currently trail Civic Platform by some 20 percentage points in opinion polls - by drumming up anti-German sentiments and phobia in Poland.
Between 13 to 16 million ethnic Germans were forcefully expelled from Poland and other countries in central and eastern Europe directly after WW II and issue remains a difficult one in Polish-German relations. In March this year, Poland's government raised objections to the canditure of Erika Steinbach – head of the German Expellees Union - to be in charge of a memorial to built in Berlin dedicated to those forced to leave their homes after the war.
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Post by Bonobo on May 31, 2009 12:22:58 GMT 1
PiS Clutching at (German) Straws
Pawel Wronski
2009-05-28
Unless the Civic Platform leaves the European People's Party and condemns the CDU/CSU resolution on German expellees, it will be disloyal towards the Polish people, opposition leader Jarosław Kaczyński has warned.
'This appeal is anti-Polish and anti-European, it is wrong to say such things in Europe, it is wrong to treat Poland like a rubbish bin,' the PiS leader said Wednesday. It was his second speech about the resolution adopted by the German CDU/CSU Monday, in which the Christian Democrats call for the post-war expulsions of ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe to be 'internationally condemned' and for the EU's freedom of residence to 'fulfil the expellees' right to their homeland.'
According to the PiS, the resolution is an open call for a revision of state borders.
'Europe must not return to territorial disputes,' Mr Kaczyński said yesterday.
The PiS leader said he had written a letter to prime minister Donald Tusk, suggesting the PO leaves the European People's Party, among whose members are the German conservatives, and joins instead a new group being created by the eurosceptics: Britain's Conservative Party, the French far right, the Czech ODS, and the PiS.
'Together we'd be the third largest group in the European Parliament and nothing could be done without us,' argued Mr Kaczyński.
The opposition leader also wants the PO to condemn the CDU/CSU resolution together with the PiS, possibly during chancellor Angela Merkel's visit to Poland on 4 June.
'It's the PO's duty to do it unless it wants its loyalty towards the Polish people to be called into question,' said the PiS leader.
He said the present crisis was a consequence of the PO's 'soft policy' towards Germany.
'If the Law and Justice were in power today, such a resolution would have never been passed,' said Mr Kaczyński.
The PiS has for a couple of weeks now been airing the message in its European Parliament election campaign that the PO is soft and pro-German. It has attacked Mr Tusk for being in the same parliamentary group as Erika Steinbach, the controversial head of the Federation of Expellees (BdV).
The CDU/CSU resolution has dismayed the PO. Its politicians explain that its actual purpose is to save the Bavarian CSU, whose chances of making it into the European Parliament are slim.
'The resolution didn't surprise us because such voices are frequent in German politics, what did surprise us was the PiS's violent reaction,' minister Rafał Grupiński, secretary of state in the Prime Minister's Office, told Gazeta.
He added that calling the PO to leave the EPP was as absurd as it would be to call the PiS to leave the European Democrat Group in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.
'There the PiS are together with Vladimir Putin's Our Russia party and somehow they don't see anything wrong in that,' said Mr Grupiński.
According to him, playing on anti-German phobias was a very dangerous thing to do.
'It's a foolish and crude tactic,' Sławomir Nowak, the prime minister's chief political aide, said on TVN24.
Mr Tusk stressed as early as Tuesday that Poland condemns all expulsions, including the post-WWII ones, but that it is Germans themselves who bear the responsibility for them.
Deputy prime minister Grzegorz Schetyna said on Radio ZET yesterday that Mr Tusk would discuss the CDU/CSU resolution with Ms Merkel during her visit on 4 June.
President Lech Kaczyński, meanwhile, called for a 'calm but firm reaction' from the government.
The brouhaha started by the PiS did not cause much of a reaction in Germany.
'We've grown accustomed,' an important CDU/CSU politician told Gazeta. The German Christian Democrats explain that what they meant in the resolution is that, now that Poland is an EU member, the children and grandchildren of the expellees can, for instance, study in Poland, overcoming the historical divisions in Europe.
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Polish-German War Under a PiS Flag
Pawel Wronski
2009-05-29
An exchange of fire continues between the PO and the PiS over the CDU/CSU resolution on expellees. The PiS wants to amend the constitution in order to defend 'Polish ownership in western and northern Poland' against the Germans. 'The PiS's insane actions can have unpredictable effects,' replies the PO.
For two days now Jaros³aw Kaczyñski has been accusing the PO of a lack of patriotism and loyalty towards the Polish people. The point of contention is a Monday resolution by the CDU/CSU in which the German party calls for an international condemnation of the post-WWII expulsions of Germans and for a 'right to a homeland also for the German expellees.'
According to Mr Kaczyñski, the resolution means that Germans are trying to revive territorial disputes. Wednesday he called the resolution 'anti-Polish and anti-European' and added that it was 'wrong to treat Poland as a rubbish bin.'
Mr Kaczyñski has presented the PO with an ultimatum: immediately following the European Parliament elections the PO should leave the European People's Party, whose member it is alongside, inter alia, the CDU/CSU, and together with the PiS condemn the resolution in front of chancellor Angela Merkel when she visits Poland on 4 June. If the PO fails to do that, it will 'demonstrate disloyalty to the Polish people.'
'No one is calling borders into question, quite to the contrary. But at the same time, all EU citizens enjoy the freedom to travel,' Elmar Brok (CDU), former long-time chairman of the European Parliament's Committee on Foreign Affairs, explained in a special communiqué issued yesterday. He protested the resolution's 'unfair interpretation. '
Although they have stressed their criticism of the CDU/CSU resolution throughout the whole affair, PO politicians called the PiS's anti-German campaign 'insane' at a press conference yesterday. The party's deputy president, Grzegorz Dolniak, said that the PO was 'disgusted by the PiS's attempts to improve its support ratings by stirring up conflicts in international relations.'
'This conflict has not solved anything in Polish-German relations. That is why we are calling for this argumentation, this warlike rhetoric to be ignored,' said Pawe³ Zalewski, former deputy president of the PiS, today the PO's candidate for the European Parliament.
'What Jaros³aw Kaczyñski is proposing for Poland today does damage to long-term efforts undertaken by the Polish diplomacy, to the Polish-German dialogue.'
Mr Zalewski added he was surprised by the PiS's personal attack against Chancellor Merkel, who had shown that Polish-German cooperation was important to her.
Polish foreign policy has become a 'hostage in Jaros³aw Kaczyñski's hands,' said Mr Zalewski.
'We have a principle of not responding to stupid taunts,' said Sejm speaker Bronis³aw Komorowski (PO). He remembered how the PiS had used the German bugaboo before the last elections, and how Jaros³aw Kaczyñski had claimed in the past that EU membership would deprive Poland of its identity. And then he went on to propose to Angela Merkel plans for a joint Polish-German armed force.
It seemed however that the PO politicians' comments only added fuel to the fire.
Speaking on TVP early yesterday, Jacek Kurski (PiS) accused the PO of being unpatriotic. He said that during the interwar period there also was a group of politicians and commentators who ignored Adolf Hitler's aggressive statements.
Mr Kaczyñski himself said on TVN24 that the PO 'cares nothing about Polish national interests' and that Mr Tusk 'causes damage to Poland.'
The PiS leader put forward another initiative yesterday. In a letter to prime minister Donald Tusk he suggested that the two parties should amend the constitution so as to 'prevent any attempts to challenge Polish ownership in western and northern Poland.'
Presidential minister W³adys³aw Stasiak said Wednesday president Lech Kaczyñski expected a 'calm but firm reaction' from the government on the CDU/CSU resolution. Yesterday, another presidential minister, Piotr Kownacki, said the resolution had the president 'seriously worried.
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 10, 2009 20:01:33 GMT 1
Kielce pogrom anniversary
thenews.pl
04.07.2009
Funeral procession for victims of Kielce Pogrom, 1946
Ceremonies are being held in Kielce, central Poland, commemorating Jewish victims of the pogrom that took place in the city 63 years ago.
At noon wreaths were laid by the mayor of Kilece and city representatives at a monument in memory of those killed in the communist orchestrated tragedy on 4 July 1946. The exact details of what happened in the city in the bloody first week in July, 63 years ago have been disputed ever since by historians.
Later, a March of Remembrance and Prayer is walking the route from the Menora � a monument recalling the liquidation of the local Jewish ghetto by the Nazis during World War Two - to the Jewish cemetery.
A large screen public showing of photographs depicting pre-war Jewish inhabitants of Kielce has also been organized as well as the publication of a history of Jews in the region, in Polish, Hebrew and English language versions by the Jan Karski Association.
The anti-Jewish riots in Kielce in 1946 and the ensuing pogrom claimed the lives of over 40 people, at least 37 of them Jewish inhabitants of the city.  www.radio.kielce.pl/page,,63-rocznica-pogromu-Zydow-w-Kielcach,9c48b26c7bd9bb8b7a65924125bdc403.html
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 16, 2009 22:40:02 GMT 1
Poles and Ukrainians..... Very painful topic. We are close by our race, genes, language, history. Yet, the cohabitation was often marred with tensions, or even worse, inhumane violence. www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612921/Ukraine/30063/Lithuanian-and-Polish-rule
By the middle of the 14th century, Ukrainian territories were under the rule of three external powers—the Golden Horde, the grand duchy of Lithuania, and the kingdom of Poland.
[...]
Elsewhere in Ukraine, Mongol rule was largely indirect, limited to exactions of taxes and tribute whose collection was delegated to the local princes. It was also relatively short-lived; northwestern and central Ukraine became an arena of expansion for a new power that had arisen in the 13th century, the grand duchy of Lithuania.
Having already over the course of a century incorporated all the lands of Belarus, Lithuania under Grand Duke Algirdas advanced rapidly into Ukraine. In the 1350s Chernihiv and adjacent areas—and in the 1360s the regions of Kiev and, to its south, Pereyaslav and Podolia (Podillya)—were occupied by Lithuania.
Competition with Poland over the former Galician-Volhynian principality ended in the 1380s in partition, by which Lithuania gained Volhynia and Poland was confirmed in its possession of Galicia. Thus, Lithuanian control extended over virtually all the Ukrainian lands as far as the open steppe and even, briefly, to the Black Sea.
Direct Polish rule in Ukraine in the 1340s and for two centuries thereafter was limited to Galicia. There, changes in such areas as administration, law, and land tenure proceeded more rapidly than in Ukrainian territories under Lithuania. However, Lithuania itself was soon drawn into the orbit of Poland following the dynastic linkage of the two states in 1385/86 and the baptism of the Lithuanians into the Latin (Roman Catholic) church. The spread of Catholicism among the Lithuanians and the attendant diffusion of the Polish language, culture, and notions of political and social order among the Lithuanian nobility eroded the position of the Orthodox Ruthenians, as had happened earlier in Galicia. In 1569, by the Union of Lublin, the dynastic link between Poland and Lithuania was transformed into a constitutional union of the two states as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. At the same time, the greater part of the Ukrainian territories was detached from Lithuania and annexed directly to Poland. This act hastened the differentiation of Ukrainians and Belarusians (the latter of whom remained within the grand duchy) and, by eliminating the political frontier between them, promoted the closer integration of Galicia and the eastern Ukrainian lands. For the next century, virtually all ethnically Ukrainian lands experienced in common the direct impact of Polish political and cultural predominance.
www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612921/Ukraine/30079/Western-Ukraine-under-Polish-rule
Ukraine in the interwar period » Western Ukraine under Polish rule
Important differences marked the two main regions that found themselves in the confines of reconstituted Poland. Galicia was the less ethnically homogeneous. From the Austrian period, however, the Galician Ukrainians brought a long history of self-organization and political participation and inherited a broad network of cultural and civic associations, educational establishments, and publishing enterprises. And in the Greek Catholic church they possessed an influential national, as well as religious, institution. The population of Volhynia was more heavily Ukrainian; nevertheless, as a consequence of imperial Russian rule since 1795, there was little tradition of organized national life, native education, or political experience. As a legacy of tsarist rule, the dominant Orthodox church was initially a bastion of Russian influence. Still, in the course of the two decades before World War II, considerable national integration between Galician and Volhynian Ukrainians took place, despite Polish efforts to forestall such a development.
As individuals, all citizens of Poland enjoyed equal rights under the 1921 constitution; in practice, discrimination on the basis of nationality and religion greatly limited the Ukrainians’ opportunities. Although the Allied powers in 1923 accepted the Polish annexation of Galicia on the basis of its regional autonomy, the government in the early 1920s proceeded to dismantle the institutions of local self-government inherited from Habsburg times. Ukrainian Galicia, officially termed “Eastern Little Poland,” was administered by governors and local prefects appointed by Warsaw. A special administrative frontier, the so-called Sokal border, was established between Galicia and Volhynia to prevent the spread of Ukrainian publications and institutions from Galicia to the northeast. In 1924 the Ukrainian language was eliminated from use in state institutions and government agencies. In the face of economic stagnation, scant industrial development, and vast rural overpopulation, the government promoted Polish agricultural settlement, further exacerbating ethnic tensions. As Ukrainian nationalist activities quickened toward the end of the 1920s and in the ’30s, the regime resorted to more repressive measures. Some organizations were banned, and in 1930 a military and police pacification campaign led to numerous arrests, widespread brutality and intimidation, and destruction of property.
Much of the Ukrainian-Polish conflict centred on the schools. Initially, the government concentrated on establishing a centralized educational system and expanding the network of Polish schools; however, by the 1930s, overt Polonization of education was being promoted. The number of Ukrainian schools declined drastically. In higher education the existing Ukrainian chairs at Lviv were abolished, and a promised separate Ukrainian university was never allowed to be established. An underground Ukrainian university functioned in Lviv from 1921 to 1925.
In a society where nationality and religion were almost inextricably bound, the church played an extraordinarily large role. In Galicia, under the leadership of the highly revered metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky, the Greek Catholic church conducted its religious mission through numerous clergy and monastic orders. The church also ran a network of seminaries, schools, charitable and social service institutions, museums, and publications. Although Catholicism of the Roman rite remained privileged, the Greek Catholic church was made relatively secure from overt state interference by the Vatican-Polish Concordat of 1925; however, it was not allowed to extend its activities beyond the Sokal border.
In the northwestern Ukrainian areas, Orthodoxy remained the dominant religion. A nationally conscious clergy and lay intelligentsia played an important role in Ukrainian life in Volhynia, although Russian influences continued at the level of ecclesiastical administration. In the 1930s Polish authorities promoted, sometimes by force, the conversion of the Orthodox to Roman Catholicism and, in a campaign that lasted until World War II, seized hundreds of Orthodox churches for closure, destruction, or transfer to the Roman Catholic Church.
Despite official obstruction and harassment, organized community life continued to develop on the foundations established in the Austrian period in Galicia. Cultural, scholarly, professional, women’s, and youth associations flourished. In circumstances of economic depression and discrimination in public employment, a large-scale development of the cooperative movement was highly successful. Much progress was also achieved in Volhynia; most difficult, however, was the situation in ethnically mixed border areas in the northwest, where by the 1930s all Ukrainian organizations were suppressed and schooling was conducted exclusively in Polish.
Ukrainian political life was dominated by conflict with the Poles. The first elections to the Polish Sejm (diet) and Senate, in 1922, were boycotted by the Galician Ukrainians. In Volhynia the Ukrainians participated and, in a bloc with the Jews and other minorities, won overwhelmingly against Polish candidates. Both Galician and Volhynian Ukrainians took part in subsequent elections, which, however, were increasingly marred by abuses, intimidation, and violence. Of the political parties, most influential in Galicia was the centrist Ukrainian National Democratic Alliance, which tried to extract concessions from the Polish government and to inform public opinion. Left-wing parties (socialists and communist front organizations) had considerably more strength in Volhynia.
Revolutionary nationalism became an influential current under Polish rule. In 1920 the clandestine Ukrainian Military Organization was founded by veterans of the independence struggle, headed by Yevhen Konovalets. In 1929 this was transformed into a broader underground movement, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). Authoritarian in structure, conspiratorial in its methods, and influenced by political theories that stressed the primacy of the nation over the individual and will over reason, the OUN carried out acts of sabotage and assassinations of Polish officials. Although these activities were opposed by the Ukrainian democratic parties as politically counterproductive and by the Greek Catholic hierarchy on moral grounds, the OUN gained a wide following in the 1930s among students and peasant youth, more in Galicia than in Volhynia.
More about Polish Policy of Polonization: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonization |
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What I find less fascinating is coming back to the same subjects without new data. I know you amy want to discuss something again, and present it on the forum. But why call me? I have said more or less the same things in the past here. You, or anyone else, may agree or disagree or just read it, and... that's it. I haven;t changed my mind. Also I already know, even more,, I can already 'feel' your stance. So wht introduce me at the beginning? You mean what I know?
? Oh, yes, there was a difference. Germans and Russians attacked without warning, while the Polish government issued an ultimatum to the Czechoslovakian one. 
