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Post by Bonobo on Jun 23, 2011 14:54:24 GMT 1
Polish case 1:
20 years ago, they changed the scale of grading pupils from 2-5 to 1-6 scale. For 1 year the grade 2 was called mierny - poor/weak. In 1999 they changed it into dopuszczaj±cy - passing/acceptable.
I thought it was really funny.
What else?
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Post by pjotr on Jun 23, 2011 16:54:54 GMT 1
Bo,
My own country shows were a forced political correctness by a secular leftwing and liberal Protestant political, socially, and educational group of people can lead too. For decades affirmative action (positive discrimination they called it in the Netherlands), levelling (levelling down to the lower level in my opinion), destruction or elimination of the pillarisation (which in my opinion had also positive sides, but it wasn't political correct), the fast emancipation of minorities and domination of Equality in the line of the Free values of the Fench revolution;"Liberty, equality, fraternity (brotherhood)".
This dominance of Equality in the sense of the political correctness illness that everyone is equal, made values of quantity, proletarian culture, levelling, fear of discrimination and therfor of expressing ones opion (which sometimes is being critical of minority groups or excesses can be) the norm.
The reaction towards political correctness is a very harsh, agressive and rejectionist one. The people rejected the political elite, the influence of their education and media (for decades dominated by a progressive, liberal elite), and so the form of society they had lived in for decades.
The masses voted for rightwing populist movements, the domination of the traditional rightwing parties which (with some criticism of their followers and dissidents within their ranks) started to cooperate and take over the agenda of the Rightwing Populists. Culture, Fine arts, Development aid (for the Third World), social spending (investment in poor city neighbourhoods, reconstruction funds) were political correct subjects of the 'Leftist church' as they named the "Old elite", and the government programs and subsidies of them (the ancien regime; the former Democratic governments).
The present government economizes these subjects by cut backs, freezing social spending, and removing subjects and projects of previous governments from the present governments spending budget and planning. This is Laissez Faire time, time of no spending, time of small government, privatizations, closing down classical orchestra, theatres and art funds, less spending on third world countries (a lot of countries were simply removed from the development aid list, so a few countries remained; an easy way to cut back). And etc. etc.
We have less Private sector charity than in the US, and are a to small country to have enough mecenasses or philantropists to support, fund or finance art exhibitions, festivals or Museums.
A lot of artists and people who work in the culture sector will lose their job, a lot of artists will move abroad, to Berlin, London, Flanders, Paris, Central-Europe (Poland and the Czech republic are hot in the art world right now, and Hungary too), New York (ofcourse), LA and other places. The image of the tolerant and liberal Holland is outdated, and it will take time, but some day foreigners will realise that the old political correct image of Holland has gone!
Pieter
P.S.- The same thin with the "liberal" Denmark!
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Post by pjotr on Jun 23, 2011 17:17:38 GMT 1
Bo,
Rejection of the Political correct Political agenda of the "Old" and "New" Left is part of the ideology, goal and intention of the "New Right", which is the Populist right of the beginning of this century (it started in 2002), which introduced 'Patriotism', 'Nationalism', 'the Voice and the will of the Dutch People' (The silent majority of Dutch native working and middle class), 'Moderate isolationalism' (Rejection of the EU and the bureaucratic power of Brussels), the 'Stop Immigration' campaign (rejection of that what is seen as alien; from Muslim migrant to Polish and Bulgarian workers), 'No Turkey in the EU' (Islamophobia, Turkey in the EU in their eyes means the islamization of Europe), 'No Dutch -taxpayers money for Greece', 'No Islamization' (No new mosques, Burqa ban, a wish to ban headscarfs and other religious symbols from schools and government buildings), 'A Pro-Israeli and American stance' (but not pro Obama, more a kind of pro-former Bush government, Pro Neocon stance), but in the same time 'No Dutch troops to Afghanistan' (a contradiction to the Pro-American stance, but the reason behind it is, Afghanistan isn't Western, it is a difficult Islamic country, what is our interest in being there. It is a Muslim country, who cares about Muslims in a remote corner of the Eart?). To finish this story. Political correctness isn't trendy, isn't fashionable as an opinion, and is seen as weak, repulsive, as something of the old leftwing elite, which in the view of the Populist parties, media and masses should be removed. Their present policies, political stance and political activities and debating stile is based on revenge and on the attempt to remove or put away as much of the left, central-left and their centre-right collaborators agenda, achievements, programs, government measures, government spending and policies as they can. It feels like pay back time, like a mental 'an eye for an eye'.
Cheers,
Pieter
P.S.- We live in a democracy and soon the climate will change, opinions will change and ofcourse in the future like in the centry before the left will get their revenge and we will get a Leftwing or central-left government and parlaiment again. That's the logical of democracy! But in the same time the Left changed too. They know that political correctness, affirmative action and large spending (and a large state debt as result of that) is not the cure!
P.S.- I was talking about the Netherlands, but the same feelings, political developments and stance are taking place and are present in Denmark, Germany, Belgium, France, Sweden, Great-Britain and Italy with it's Neo-fascist and seperatist [Lega Nord] parties and movements.
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Post by pjotr on Jun 23, 2011 18:45:52 GMT 1
In the Netherlands, like lately the Homophobic leftwing SLD politician, there were and are people from the political correct leftwing and centre-left parties who privately or on party conferences say what the rightwing politicians or Populists say. I have witnessed irritation and frustration under leftwing activists and politicians who ran a pro-migration and tolerance agenda. Behind doors, in pubs, in private situations I sometimes have to chance to witness (being present as a local radio reporter) those political correct, tolerant, affirmative action preaching and migrant voters attracting politicians say completely differant things than in public on stages, to the press and media and on election campaigns. Their leftist ideas and agenda often clashes with the conservative and sometimes ethnic cultural Patriotic (Turkish Nationalist, Kurd Nationalist, Iranian nationalists - Persians are extemely Patriotic and proud of their heritage and culture and ofcourse Moroccan nationalist) and Islamist agenda's of the migrants. Their rejection of woman emancipation/feminism, Gay rights, Western culture and leftist democratic ideas irritates and frustrates Leftwing parties, activist and politicians. In some cases the migrant element in leftwing parties became to strong, and the native Dutch Leftwing base of militants and members pressed the migrant element out of power. You could say a sort of Coup'd etat within a party. The radical, leftist, liberal people, did not want the conservative, orthodox -puritinical- Muslim influence. They saw that these migrant groups inside their party were only interested in power from a Machiavellistic, tactical and strategic interest, not because of the ideals and principles of their party. The migrants could easily have chosen another party. The party was not that imporant, important was that they needed a platform, a political movement in which they can have influence. I have heard loads of criticism of leftist politicians and activists about migrants and the Dutch workers they are supposed to represent. What are their complaints? The Duthc workers and former progressive middle class has become primitive rightwing in their eyes, anti-elitist (they, the leftists are Pro-elitist; pro academic intelligentsia, pro culture, pro science, pro modern reform, and in favor of taking responsability (participating in governments in staid of opposition and actions). They loath the populism, xenophobia and rejection of reforms by the people.
In the same time they have as much difficulties with the influence and presense of non-integrated and non-assimilated migrants as the rightwing politicians do. In Arnhem the leftwing Socialist party was the main and largest opponent against the builiding of a new Turkish mosque, representing the Dutch workingclass and middle class of Arnhem, in staid of the large Turkish minority over here, 30%.
Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Jun 23, 2011 20:22:53 GMT 1
In a leftwing sense, if you think Marxist, socialist or leftwing social-liberal or social-democratic (labour) the mirgants and asylum seekers are the new working class, the new proletarians, the base fro future class struggle and revolution. ;D ;D ;D So comrade Pieter, Towarzysz Pjotr on this forum says; " Migrants and Asylumseekers of all countries, unite!", to use our 'Old comrades' Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels slogan " Workers of all lands, unite". ;D  |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 23, 2011 21:54:08 GMT 1
So, what is your personal opinion on political correctness?
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Post by pjotr on Jun 23, 2011 22:21:04 GMT 1
Bo,
My opinion about political correctness is that I was never a supporter or fan of it, because it hinders democracy in my opinion. You can't speak frank, you can't point your finger at things which are wrong with this issue, that group, or that fact which is vulnerable. I don't miss the political correctness of my country of the eightees or ninetees.
I don't miss the Political correctness which denoted language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts, and did so to an excessive extent.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 24, 2011 21:17:25 GMT 1
Bo, My opinion about political correctness is that I was never a supporter or fan of it, because it hinders democracy in my opinion. You can't speak frank, you can't point your finger at things which are wrong with this issue, that group, or that fact which is vulnerable. I don't miss the political correctness of my country of the eightees or ninetees. I don't miss the Political correctness which denoted language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts, and did so to an excessive extent. Cheers, Pieter hmm, I think political correctness, though irritating, has its pros too. Instead of saying Cygan ( gypsy), people are advised to say Roma which still sounds neutral, while cygan is highly derogative and combined with worst connotations of a thief, cheater and liar. |
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Post by pjotr on Jun 25, 2011 13:45:55 GMT 1
Bo, My opinion about political correctness is that I was never a supporter or fan of it, because it hinders democracy in my opinion. You can't speak frank, you can't point your finger at things which are wrong with this issue, that group, or that fact which is vulnerable. I don't miss the political correctness of my country of the eightees or ninetees. I don't miss the Political correctness which denoted language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts, and did so to an excessive extent. Cheers, Pieter hmm, I think political correctness, though irritating, has its pros too. Instead of saying Cygan ( gypsy), people are advised to say Roma which still sounds neutral, while cygan is highly derogative and combined with worst connotations of a thief, cheater and liar. Bonobo, I agree with you on this issue, but I think this is maybe or more or less a cultural, antropological, historical and social issue than a political issue. It has a political consequence, yes, that Gypsies, Cygan, are seen in a negative way, and that the more neutral and correct terms of the ethnic Gypsy groups in Europe ' Roma' and ' Sinti' is more correct. If used in political ways, in debates, measures, legislation and etc. it is ofcourse also 'Political correct' or incorrect if the word Cygan ( gypsy) is used. I think many Poles and Dutch are incorrect, because we stil use the word Gypsy, Cygan and Zigeuner (in Dutch). In general we don't say Roma or Sinti, we say Zigeuners (the Plural form of Gypsy). Ofcourse officials like polticians, civil servants and other public figures use the 'Political correct' form of 'Roma' and 'Sinti', but the people themselves and even some Gypsies themselves call Gypsies Cygan, it is simply deeply rooted in the European culture. It is like in America and Europe that ' Black' or ' Afro-American' or ' African-European', ' Caribbean', ' Southern-American', ' Surinamese', ' Antillean', ' Creole', ' Ebony' (meaning blackness), and ' African' (Black African migrants who live in Europe and America). But you stil hear whites in an exclusively white environment (amongst white people) in the Netherlands talking about Negro's, that negro, that negress (when there is no black person with African roots is around ofcourse, but sometimes even in the presence of such a person), and the degratory term ' n•gger'. Both black people and white people use that word. Political correctness is far away in this world my friend. |
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Post by Bonobo on Sept 17, 2016 18:03:47 GMT 1
Very recent case A famous war photographer who suffered from depressions and combat stress, committed suicide. However, the media only reported he died tragically. It lasted for a few days, nobody dared to state clearly that he killed himself, it was readers who suggested it in their comments under articles. link |
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