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Post by jeanne on Jul 2, 2008 2:10:42 GMT 1
Like Tufta, I was very happy to see a quote that I recognized... the book, of course, is 'Tom Sawyer'!! The most impressive part of the book was when the boys ran away from homes (except for Huck because he ran away from his barrel) and spend a few times on an island, far from all obnoxious people.... Wonderful adventure...... ;D ;D ;D And have you read 'Huckleberry Finn' which takes things to a deeper level? |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 2, 2008 2:14:46 GMT 1
I can`t. It isn`t thingyens, is it? What is thingyens? Don't tell me I have stumped you! ;D Think 20th century French author...does that help? |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 2, 2008 8:45:15 GMT 1
I can`t. It isn`t thingyens, is it? What is thingyens? Aaaaa, I am sorry, this is again the Forum`s electronic moderator. I wrote D i c k e n s. The only French author I read and value is Jules de Verne.  And have you read 'Huckleberry Finn' which takes things to a deeper level? I did, when I was a bit older. Read only once and never ca,e back to it. It was too deep ;D |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 2, 2008 11:48:08 GMT 1
Aaaaa, I am sorry, this is again the Forum`s electronic moderator. I wrote D i c k e n s. Oh, good guess...he does sound like D***ens. The quote is from Francois Mauriac's 'Woman of the Pharisees'. It's a lot less fun than 'Tom Sawyer'...that's for sure! Perhaps the race issues in it are more pertinent for Americans...for the time it was written, it was quite thought provoking. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 2, 2008 19:49:14 GMT 1
Oh, good guess...he does sound like D***ens. You don`t like D ickens?? You consider him a D...k? Oops, I vaguely remember the author`s name but this title is strange and completely unknown. Generally, I don`t read French authors except for Verne. Too much philosophy! Well, I forgot Alexander Dumas - about this magician, what was his name? I didn`t pay attention to racial issues. Reading it I was depressed at the relation of Huck with his father. |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 2, 2008 20:21:35 GMT 1
Oh, good guess...he does sound like D***ens. You don`t like D ickens?? You consider him a D...k? No, no, no, I like D...ens. He can tend to ramble because he was being paid by the page to write, but I like what he wrote... It's never to late to start! Give him a try! hmmm...I don't know! I think I remember starting 'The Three Muskateers' or 'The Count of Monte Cristo', but never really getting into them. Was the magician in one of them? You see, Twain is timeless...such problems still exist today. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 2, 2008 21:24:04 GMT 1
No, no, no, I like D...ens. He can tend to ramble because he was being paid by the page to write, but I like what he wrote... What for example? I liked the Pickwick Club.... No, thanks. Though France and Poland are European, I find French culture, especially literature, not too attractive. I prefer Anglosaxons! Now I remember, without googling it. Joseph Balsamo was the title, about a magician who made a careeer at the side of the last royals before the French Revolution. A very difficult book, I read it as a boy, got shocked when Balsamo`s mentor sucked blood from his girlfriend to produce a liquid of eternal life. I am more convinced every year that some people should be prohibited from having children. In case they have, the kids should be taken away and granted to foster families immediately upon their birth. |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 3, 2008 2:27:49 GMT 1
No, no, no, I like D...ens. He can tend to ramble because he was being paid by the page to write, but I like what he wrote... What for example? I liked the Pickwick Club.... It's been awhile since I've read anything by him, but back in my school days I remember reading 'A Tale of Two Cities', 'Great Expectations', and 'Oliver Twist', and I liked them all. I haven't read Pickwick Papers. And of course, there is 'A Christmas Carol' which I have read since my school days...I used to read it at Christmas time to my girls when they were young. Well then, you will be happy to hear that while my father's parents were born in Poland, my mother's father was born in England and her mother was born in Scotland. So that must be worth something towards keeping me in your good graces. ;D Uhgggg...glad I missed that one... I agree. There are some really sad cases out there... |
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Post by tufta on Jul 3, 2008 17:38:52 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 3, 2008 18:18:27 GMT 1
It's been awhile since I've read anything by him, but back in my school days I remember reading 'A Tale of Two Cities', 'Great Expectations', and 'Oliver Twist', and I liked them all. I haven't read Pickwick Papers. And of course, there is 'A Christmas Carol' which I have read since my school days...I used to read it at Christmas time to my girls when they were young. I had to read those novels at uni and wasn`t a happy eager reader. Generally, I don`t like reading sad stories, even if finally they finish with a happy end. I have experienced so many setbacks and failures in my own life that reading about somebody`s gives me serious depressions ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Wow! Yes, there are obviously some good ferromones between us! ;D ;D ;D Scotland? Those tribal barbarians from the north? Are they considered Anglo Saxons? ;D Yes, it was nasty, like vampires.. ;D But you know what happened? Balsamo`s mentor drains his girlfriend from blood because he thought she was a virgin. But she wasn`t because Balsamo took care of it. And he tells the old magician/wizard about it, that his endevours to produce spell of eternal life are futile. When the old man hears Balsamo`s vengeful explanation, he crumbles - the aging process gains rapid momentum and he dies. Very funny, don`t you think so?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Unfortunately, it is only possible in totalitarian systems.... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 3, 2008 18:24:25 GMT 1
I have looked through it, actually read a few chapters... But it is too philosophical for the current time. Now I have vacation and I need a lighter literature... I am reading Jewish anecdotes today.... But thanks, I will leave it for some future use.... |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 4, 2008 12:59:50 GMT 1
I had to read those novels at uni and wasn`t a happy eager reader. Generally, I don`t like reading sad stories, even if finally they finish with a happy end. I have experienced so many setbacks and failures in my own life that reading about somebody`s gives me serious depressions ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Setbacks, maybe, as we all have...but I find it hard to believe you have ever suffered failures! ;D ;D ;D "Ferromones"?? What does that mean? Where do you get these words??  Nope, Celtics...but I mentioned it just so you would not be wondering what the fourth quarter of my heritage was... ;D I'll say it again...UUUUUGH!!! Actually, I have heard of a few cases here where parents have been so derelict in the past that newly born children have been taken from them by Social Services and placed in foster care... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 5, 2008 21:07:55 GMT 1
Setbacks, maybe, as we all have...but I find it hard to believe you have ever suffered failures! ;D ;D ;D Yes, I have, like everybody.... oops, I meant pheromones: A pheromone (from Greek φέρω phero "to bear" + ‘ορμόνη "hormone") is a chemical that triggers a natural behavioral response in another member of the same species. There are alarm pheromones, food trail pheromones, sex pheromones, and many others that affect behavior or physiology. Their use among insects has been particularly well documented, although many vertebrates and plants also communicate using pheromones.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PheromoneI know. It`s Russian... ;D You say uuuggghhh to the most fascinating scenes of the book? ? Today the news reported that a few teenagers beat and then burnt a puppy. It died. They recorded a film on a cell phone and later boasted about their crime. I suppose the state neglected the necessity of taking them from their parents when they were babies.... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 5, 2008 21:29:07 GMT 1
What`s this?
"Hold your noise!" cried a terrible voice, as a man started up from
among the graves at the side of the church porch. "Keep still, you
little devil, or I'll cut your throat!"
A fearful man, all in coarse grey, with a great iron on his leg. A
man with no hat, and with broken shoes, and with an old rag tied
round his head. A man who had been soaked in water, and smothered in mud, and lamed by stones, and cut by flints, and stung by nettles, and torn by briars; who limped, and shivered, and glared and growled; and whose teeth chattered in his head as he seized me by the chin.
"O! Don't cut my throat, sir," I pleaded in terror. "Pray don't do
it, sir."
"Tell us your name!" said the man. "Quick!"
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Post by jeanne on Jul 6, 2008 13:08:14 GMT 1
What`s this? "Hold your noise!" cried a terrible voice, as a man started up from among the graves at the side of the church porch. "Keep still, you little devil, or I'll cut your throat!" A fearful man, all in coarse grey, with a great iron on his leg. A man with no hat, and with broken shoes, and with an old rag tied round his head. A man who had been soaked in water, and smothered in mud, and lamed by stones, and cut by flints, and stung by nettles, and torn by briars; who limped, and shivered, and glared and growled; and whose teeth chattered in his head as he seized me by the chin. "O! Don't cut my throat, sir," I pleaded in terror. "Pray don't do it, sir." "Tell us your name!" said the man. "Quick!" Treasure Island? |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 6, 2008 20:39:49 GMT 1
Nope.
"What do you want?" I asked, starting; "I don't know you"
"Well, sir," returned one of them, bending down and touching me on
the shoulder, "this is a matter that you'll soon arrange, I dare
say, but you're arrested."
"What is the debt?"
"Hundred and twenty-three pound, fifteen, six. Jeweller's account,
I think."
"What is to be done?"
"You had better come to my house," said the man. "I keep a very
nice house."
I made some attempt to get up and dress myself. When I next
attended to them, they were standing a little off from the bed,
looking at me. I still lay there.
"You see my state," said I. "I would come with you if I could; but
indeed I am quite unable. If you take me from here, I think I shall
die by the way."
Perhaps they replied, or argued the point, or tried to encourage me
to believe that I was better than I thought. Forasmuch as they hang
in my memory by only this one slender thread, I don't know what
they did, except that they forbore to remove me.
That I had a fever and was avoided, that I suffered greatly, that I
often lost my reason, that the time seemed interminable, that I
confounded impossible existences with my own identity; that I was a
brick in the house wall, and yet entreating to be released from the
giddy place where the builders had set me; that I was a steel beam
of a vast engine, clashing and whirling over a gulf, and yet that I
implored in my own person to have the engine stopped, and my part
in it hammered off; that I passed through these phases of disease,
I know of my own remembrance, and did in some sort know at the
time. That I sometimes struggled with real people, in the belief
that they were murderers, and that I would all at once comprehend
that they meant to do me good, and would then sink exhausted in
their arms, and suffer them to lay me down, I also knew at the
time. But, above all, I knew that there was a constant tendency in
all these people - who, when I was very ill, would present all
kinds of extraordinary transformations of the human face, and would
be much dilated in size - above all, I say, I knew that there was
an extraordinary tendency in all these people, sooner or later to
settle down into the likeness of Joe.
After I had turned the worst point of my illness, I began to notice
that while all its other features changed, this one consistent
feature did not change. Whoever came about me, still settled down
into Joe. I opened my eyes in the night, and I saw in the great
chair at the bedside, Joe. I opened my eyes in the day, and,
sitting on the window-seat, smoking his pipe in the shaded open
window, still I saw Joe. I asked for cooling drink, and the dear
hand that gave it me was Joe's. I sank back on my pillow after
drinking, and the face that looked so hopefully and tenderly upon
me was the face of Joe.
At last, one day, I took courage, and said, "Is it Joe?"
And the dear old home-voice answered, "Which it air, old chap."
"O Joe, you break my heart! Look angry at me, Joe. Strike me, Joe.
Tell me of my ingratitude. Don't be so good to me!"
For, Joe had actually laid his head down on the pillow at my side
and put his arm round my neck, in his joy that I knew him.. |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 6, 2008 22:25:32 GMT 1
Okay, I'm stumped...but not ready to give up! Can I assume it is British? Could it be Kipling?
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 6, 2008 23:55:02 GMT 1
Okay, I'm stumped...but not ready to give up! Can I assume it is British? Could it be Kipling? Yes, it is British, not Kipling, he wasn`t so drastic, I suppose. This novel has already been mentioned here.. ;D ;D |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 16, 2008 21:50:53 GMT 1
Okay, I'm stumped...but not ready to give up! Can I assume it is British? Could it be Kipling? Yes, it is British, not Kipling, he wasn`t so drastic, I suppose. This novel has already been mentioned here.. ;D ;D OK, Bonobo, I cannot figure out what the quote comes from. During the time you were in Warsaw I tried to figure it out and I cannot. Either it is something I have not read, or my memory has failed me miserably! Even knowing that it was previously mentioned does not help me! Please do not go off to the seaside without revealing the answer! |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 16, 2008 23:13:45 GMT 1
Great Expectations.
"O! Don't cut my throat, sir," I pleaded in terror. "Pray don't do
it, sir."
"Tell us your name!" said the man. "Quick!"
"Pip, sir."
"Once more," said the man, staring at me. "Give it mouth!"
"Pip. Pip, sir."
"Show us where you live," said the man. "Pint out the place!"
I pointed to where our village lay, on the flat in-shore among the
alder-trees and pollards, a mile or more from the church.
The man, after looking at me for a moment, turned me upside down,
and emptied my pockets. There was nothing in them but a piece of
bread. When the church came to itself - for he was so sudden and
strong that he made it go head over heels before me, and I saw the
steeple under my feet - when the church came to itself, I say, I
was seated on a high tombstone, trembling, while he ate the bread
ravenously.
"You young dog," said the man, licking his lips, "what fat cheeks
you ha' got."
I believe they were fat, though I was at that time undersized for
my years, and not strong.
"Darn me if I couldn't eat em," said the man, with a threatening
shake of his head, "and if I han't half a mind to't!"
I earnestly expressed my hope that he wouldn't, and held tighter to
the tombstone on which he had put me; partly, to keep myself upon
it; partly, to keep myself from crying.
"Now lookee here!" said the man. "Where's your mother?"
"There, sir!" said I.
He started, made a short run, and stopped and looked over his
shoulder.
"There, sir!" I timidly explained. "Also Georgiana. That's my
mother."
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Post by jeanne on Jul 17, 2008 1:44:20 GMT 1
Thanks...it's been a long time since I was in high school...or maybe it was even jr. high when we read it...can't remember that either! ;D
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 17, 2008 13:23:14 GMT 1
Thanks...it's been a long time since I was in high school...or maybe it was even jr. high when we read it...can't remember that either! ;D I read it at uni, had to, and didnt` like it because it was sooo boring.... I am glad I didn`t live in those times when such books were written and considered masterpieces... ;D Although this piece from a book which I have always liked also comes from 19 century.
The reporter spoke the truth. It was evident that if the castaway had ever been a civilized being, solitude had made him a savage, or worse, perhaps a regular man of the woods. Hoarse sounds issued from his throat between his teeth, which were sharp as the teeth of a wild beast made to tear raw flesh.
Memory must have deserted him long before, and for a long time also he had forgotten how to use his gun and tools, and he no longer knew how to make a fire! It could be seen that he was active and powerful, but the physical qualities had been developed in him to the injury of the moral qualities. [...] spoke to him. He did not appear to understand or even to hear. And yet on looking into his eyes, the reporter thought he could see that all reason was
not extinguished in him. However, the prisoner did not struggle, nor even attempt to break his bonds. Was he overwhelmed by the presence of men whose fellow he had once been? Had he found in some corner of his brain a fleeting remembrance which recalled him to humanity? If free, would he attempt to fly, or would he remain? They could not tell, but they did not make the experiment; and
after gazing attentively at the miserable creature,-- |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 17, 2008 22:47:07 GMT 1
Thanks...it's been a long time since I was in high school...or maybe it was even jr. high when we read it...can't remember that either! ;D I read it at uni, had to, and didnt` like it because it was sooo boring.... I am glad I didn`t live in those times when such books were written and considered masterpieces... ;D Although this piece from a book which I have always liked also comes from 19 century.
The reporter spoke the truth. It was evident that if the castaway had ever been a civilized being, solitude had made him a savage, or worse, perhaps a regular man of the woods. Hoarse sounds issued from his throat between his teeth, which were sharp as the teeth of a wild beast made to tear raw flesh.
Memory must have deserted him long before, and for a long time also he had forgotten how to use his gun and tools, and he no longer knew how to make a fire! It could be seen that he was active and powerful, but the physical qualities had been developed in him to the injury of the moral qualities. [...] spoke to him. He did not appear to understand or even to hear. And yet on looking into his eyes, the reporter thought he could see that all reason was
not extinguished in him. However, the prisoner did not struggle, nor even attempt to break his bonds. Was he overwhelmed by the presence of men whose fellow he had once been? Had he found in some corner of his brain a fleeting remembrance which recalled him to humanity? If free, would he attempt to fly, or would he remain? They could not tell, but they did not make the experiment; and
after gazing attentively at the miserable creature,--Jules Verne, not someone I enjoy reading...too 'fantastic' for my liking...but I never read "The Mysterious Island", so I don't know about that one.  |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 17, 2008 23:00:06 GMT 1
Jules Verne, not someone I enjoy reading...too 'fantastic' for my liking...but I never read "The Mysterious Island", so I don't know about that one. That`s amusing. You have never read The Mysterious Island but you know it is Verne... Very interesting.... It is The M. Island, indeed. ;D I liked Verne`s Island and loved 20.000 Leages. One of my most favored books.. |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 19, 2008 12:53:27 GMT 1
Jules Verne, not someone I enjoy reading...too 'fantastic' for my liking...but I never read "The Mysterious Island", so I don't know about that one. That`s amusing. You have never read The Mysterious Island but you know it is Verne... Very interesting.... Not so interesting...I googled it. The fact that one can google almost anything makes this thread not-so-challenging, don't you think? Apparently you're not the only one, or Verne wouldn't be so famous! ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 19, 2008 21:20:20 GMT 1
Not so interesting...I googled it. Wow, did you copy a fragment and google it? I can`t agree. The Winds of War was challenging. I had to spend 30 minutes on it.... And you didn`t recognise Great Expectations... The idea of the thread is primarily to remind people of the most known books which we have read once. The challenge of guessing titles is a secondary aim. |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 20, 2008 12:29:52 GMT 1
Wow, did you copy a fragment and google it? Yes, just the second sentence beginning..."It was evident..." Do you mean you spent 30 minutes googling? and how did you eventually find it? And by the way, since we discussed it here, I decided to read "Winds..." again. I finished it the other day and am now also reading "War and Remembrance" again. It is interesting how my perspective has changed after reading all the various articles regarding WWII here and on the other forum. When reading "Winds..." I came upon the passage you referred to about the Polish soldiers going home at night, and I have to admit that without your comments I would have totally believed it, and I'm sure I did the first time(s) I read the book. I guess that's the problem with historical fiction...we still have to remember that it is FICTION. Okay, that's fine with me...what's next on your list? ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 20, 2008 22:31:00 GMT 1
And by the way, since we discussed it here, I decided to read "Winds..." again. I finished it the other day and am now also reading "War and Remembrance" again. It is interesting how my perspective has changed after reading all the various articles regarding WWII here and on the other forum. When reading "Winds..." I came upon the passage you referred to about the Polish soldiers going home at night, and I have to admit that without your comments I would have totally believed it, and I'm sure I did the first time(s) I read the book. I guess that's the problem with historical fiction...we still have to remember that it is FICTION. This historical ignorance of Herman Wouk wasn`t accidental. Were there other scenes in the book where his attitude to Poles could be seen as partial? Next is this:
‘Friends all, my poor brother that lays yonder has done generous by them that’s left behind in the vale of sorrers. He has done generous by these yer poor little lambs that he loved and sheltered, and that’s left fatherless and motherless. Yes, and we that knowed him knows that he would a done MORE generous by ‘em if he hadn’t ben afeard o’ woundin’ his dear William and me. Now, WOULDN’T he? Ther’ ain’t no question ‘bout it in MY mind. Well, then, what kind o’ brothers would it be that ‘d stand in his way at sech a time? And what kind o’ uncles would it be that ‘d rob — yes, ROB — sech poor sweet lambs as these ‘at he loved so at sech a time? If I know William — and I THINK I do — he — well, I’ll jest ask him.’ He turns around and begins to make a lot of signs to the duke with his hands, and the duke he looks at him stupid and leather- headed a while; then all of a sudden he seems to catch his meaning, and jumps for the king, goo-gooing with all his might for joy, and hugs him about fifteen times before he lets up. Then the king says, ‘I knowed it; I reckon THAT ‘ll convince anybody the way HE feels about it. |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 23, 2008 20:40:02 GMT 1
This historical ignorance of Herman Wouk wasn`t accidental. Were there other scenes in the book where his attitude to Poles could be seen as partial? It's hard for me to be certain as my knowledge of Polish history is not very extensive (evidenced by the fact that I totally believed the comment about the soldiers going home at night), but for the most part, I think Wouk was pretty fair in his presentation of the Poles. On the one hand, he portrayed the the ordinary Poles in Warsaw as brave, heroic, and persevering during the attack by the Germans. On the other hand, when the main characters (Natalie, Byron and Natalie's Polish-Jew relatives) were fleeing Krakow, heading for the American Embassy in Warsaw, their car was stopped by two Polish soldiers who attempted to steal the car. Natalie's relative explained to the Americans, "there are good Poles and there are bad Poles...and these are bad Poles." To me his characterization of Poles seemed balanced. The bit about the Polish soldiers returning home at night did not seem odd to me at all...I have lived all my life in the state where the American Revolution began and stories of the Battle of Lexington and Concord and "the shot heard 'round the world" are deeply engrained in our culture. Every American knows about the "Minutemen", farmers who comprised the American revolutionary army, who were ready to muster and fight "in a minute". These heroic legends returned to their homes at night for a good meal and a rest, and they got the job done, so it didn't appear to me to be insulting when Wouk said the Polish soldiers did the same... |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 25, 2008 2:11:05 GMT 1
Next is this:
‘Friends all, my poor brother that lays yonder has done generous by them that’s left behind in the vale of sorrers. He has done generous by these yer poor little lambs that he loved and sheltered, and that’s left fatherless and motherless. Yes, and we that knowed him knows that he would a done MORE generous by ‘em if he hadn’t ben afeard o’ woundin’ his dear William and me. Now, WOULDN’T he? Ther’ ain’t no question ‘bout it in MY mind. Well, then, what kind o’ brothers would it be that ‘d stand in his way at sech a time? And what kind o’ uncles would it be that ‘d rob — yes, ROB — sech poor sweet lambs as these ‘at he loved so at sech a time? If I know William — and I THINK I do — he — well, I’ll jest ask him.’ He turns around and begins to make a lot of signs to the duke with his hands, and the duke he looks at him stupid and leather- headed a while; then all of a sudden he seems to catch his meaning, and jumps for the king, goo-gooing with all his might for joy, and hugs him about fifteen times before he lets up. Then the king says, ‘I knowed it; I reckon THAT ‘ll convince anybody the way HE feels about it.That dialect is a dead give-away! I believe it is our friend Twain again, and this time 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'. Funny that we were just discussing Twain because TIME Magazine just had him on the cover of one of their issues. I borrowed it from my mother to see what it's about, and will report when I get a chance to read it. |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D