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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 14:18:40 GMT 1
Yesterday I was at the gathering and barbecue before the summer recess of the Arnhem Municipal council in the capital of my province Gelderland in the Netherlands. I made contact with the representatives of the local migrant party United Arnhem (Verenigd Arnhem), two Turkish migrant people from Arnhem and one Turkish journalist.
I have contacts with Turks, Turkish Kurds, Iraqi Kurds, Moroccans, Afghan people and Iranians. Ofcourse I live in a mainly native Dutch environment in which still the majority are secular European and christian. In Arnhem the largest group of the 30 procent of migrants of the population are Turkish people, ethnic Turks and Turkish Kurds.
In the cliché or stereotypical view of the Western Media and Press there is a Turkish-Kurd conflict going one. It is true that there is a conflict between the Turkish state and a political fraction of radical Marxist-Leninist and Leftwing Nationalist Kurds (PKK), but it is a fact that there are also Kurds who are Pro-Turkish and even have Great Ottoman ideas, because the Kurds were a special military force in the Ottoman army during the Ottoman empire.
Some Kurds are moderate and many Turks are moderate and in many parts of Turkey they live peacefully side by side. Ethnic Turks and Kurds also internarry. Turkey is much more ethnic diverse than many Westerners know, next to ethnic Turks you have Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Jews, a tiny ethnic Polish minority, Albanians, Arabs, Assyrians, Azeris, Bosniaks, Circassians, Lazs, Persians, Pomaks (Bulgarians), Yazidis and Roma (Gypsies).
I know that Poland has an ethnic minority of Polish Tartar Muslims, who are actually very Polish. They have surved in the Polish army since the Polish-Lithuanian Common Weatlh, they speak Polish and often have Polish slavic sounding names, and green wooden, Polish architecture mosques.
In the larger cities you have Arab, Persian, Turkish and Muslim African minorities since the Peoples Republic of Poland time, when Poland was allied with the Arab world and Marxist nations like Somalia back then. Do you know personally Polish or foreign Muslims in Poland? Bonobo, do you for instance have expats children of Muslim background on Krakow highschools or Muslim students on the Jagiellonian University?
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 14:27:57 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 14:49:44 GMT 1
Turkish army in Poland
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 15:06:45 GMT 1
Poland–Turkey relations Polish–Turkish relations are foreign relations between Poland and Turkey. Poland has an embassy in Ankara, and a general consulate in Istanbul. Turkey has an embassy in Warsaw. Both countries are full members of NATO and the Union for the Mediterranean. Polish-Turkish relations were historically strong, the official relations were established in the 15th century. The Ottoman Empire was the only major country in the world which did not recognize the Partitions of Poland. In the 19th century many Polish veterans of the November Uprising, January Uprising and Crimean War arrived in Turkey. Many Polish officers, like Michał Czajkowski, served in the Ottoman Army. Polish general Marian Langiewicz spent the last years of his life in Turkey, fought in the Ottoman Army and died in Istanbul, where he is buried at the Haydarpaşa Cemetery. Polish national poet Adam Mickiewicz spent the last months of his life in Istanbul and died there. The house where he lived was later transformed into the Adam Mickiewicz Museum.  Michał Czajkowski  Marian Langiewicz, full name Marian Antoni Melchior Langiewicz (Polish pronunciation: [ˈmarjan laŋˈɡʲɛvit͡ʂ]; 5 August 1827, Krotoschin – 11 May 1887, Istanbul), was a Polish patriot notable as a military leader of the January Uprising in 1863.There is also the Polish village of Polonezköy ( Adampol) in Turkey. It lies on the Anatolian side of Istanbul and was settled in 1842 by Polish veterans of the November Uprising. In the 19th and 20th centuries further Polish settlers arrived. As of 2009 there is still a Polish minority in the village. Famous Turks with partial Polish ancestry include the poet and playwright Nâzım Hikmet, and the soprano opera singer Leyla Gencer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%A2z%C4%B1m_Hikmet
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 15:26:27 GMT 1
Leyla Gencer Ayşe Leyla Gencer (Turkish pronunciation: [lejˈla ɟenˈdʒeɾ]) née Çeyrekgil (10 October 1928 – 10 May 2008) was a Turkish operatic soprano. Gencer was a notable bel canto soprano who spent most of her career in Italy, from the early 1950s through the mid-1980s, and had a repertoire encompassing more than seventy roles. She made very few commercial recordings; however, numerous bootleg recordings of her performances exist. She was particularly associated with the heroines of Donizetti.  Early life Leyla Gencer was born in Polonezköy (near Istanbul) to a Turkish father and a Polish mother. Her father, Hasanzade İbrahim Bey (who took the surname Çeyrekgil under the Surname Law of 1934), was a wealthy businessman, whose family was from the city of Safranbolu. Her mother, Lexanda Angela Minakovska, was from a Roman Catholic family of an Lithuanian aristocratic background (she later converted to Islam and chose the name Atiye after her husband's death.) Her father died when she was very young. She grew up in the Çubuklu neighbourhood of Istanbul, on the Anatolian side of the Bosphorus strait. At 16, she married İbrahim Gencer, a banker related to the influential İpekçi family. 
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 15:31:44 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 15:33:22 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 15:37:41 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 21, 2016 17:13:23 GMT 1
Do you know personally Polish or foreign Muslims in Poland? Bonobo, do you for instance have expats children of Muslim background on Krakow highschools or Muslim students on the Jagiellonian University? Read more: polandsite.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz4F3nGmlF8Cheers, Pieter I know a few Muslim people, mostly young teachers who once had lectures and workshops in my school. I don`t teach any Muslim children or uni students but they go to schools where my kids do. They come from mixed marriages. But these are rare cases. |
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 22:31:20 GMT 1
Do you know personally Polish or foreign Muslims in Poland? Bonobo, do you for instance have expats children of Muslim background on Krakow highschools or Muslim students on the Jagiellonian University? Read more: polandsite.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz4F3nGmlF8Cheers, Pieter I know a few Muslim people, mostly young teachers who once had lectures and workshops in my school. I don`t teach any Muslim children or uni students but they go to schools where my kids do. They come from mixed marriages. But these are rare cases. How were your experiences with these young teachers with a Muslim background who once had lectures and workshops in your school. Was it easy to communicate with them, did they come from the privilaged, well to do classes in the societies (countries) they came from? Could you talk about faith and religion with them. In the sense of a Polish Roman-Catholic who speaks with an Arab Sunni Muslim or an Iranian Shia Muslim in Poland? How are these Muslim children from Mixed marriages in your childrens class? Are they accepted or bullied? Are they simpy Polish kids with a muslim faith or are they clearly different due to their faith, ethnicity, culture and maybe mixed race? |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 21, 2016 22:52:13 GMT 1
I know a few Muslim people, mostly young teachers who once had lectures and workshops in my school. I don`t teach any Muslim children or uni students but they go to schools where my kids do. They come from mixed marriages. But these are rare cases. How were your experiences with these young teachers with a Muslim background who once had lectures and workshops in your school. Was it easy to communicate with them, did they come from the privilaged, well to do classes in the societies (countries) they came from? Could you talk about faith and religion with them. In the sense of a Polish Roman-Catholic who speaks with an Arab Sunni Muslim or an Iranian Shia Muslim in Poland? How are these Muslim children from Mixed marriages in your childrens class? Are they accepted or bullied? Are they simpy Polish kids with a muslim faith or are they clearly different due to their faith, ethnicity, culture and maybe mixed race? Those young teachers usually come from well-off families who can sponsor their trips and stay in Europe. They are always very open, friendly guys. I could talk with them about anything. I am not a religious fanatic and neither were they. Muslim children you are talking about are fully accepted because they were born here and have been going through all stages of education with Polish kids, that`s why they are treated as Poles as they speak perfect Polish. So, they are Polish kids of Muslim or Catholic or non-religious denomination depending on their parents` choice. |
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Post by pjotr on Jul 21, 2016 23:18:19 GMT 1
How were your experiences with these young teachers with a Muslim background who once had lectures and workshops in your school. Was it easy to communicate with them, did they come from the privilaged, well to do classes in the societies (countries) they came from? Could you talk about faith and religion with them. In the sense of a Polish Roman-Catholic who speaks with an Arab Sunni Muslim or an Iranian Shia Muslim in Poland? How are these Muslim children from Mixed marriages in your childrens class? Are they accepted or bullied? Are they simpy Polish kids with a muslim faith or are they clearly different due to their faith, ethnicity, culture and maybe mixed race? Those young teachers usually come from well-off families who can sponsor their trips and stay in Europe. They are always very open, friendly guys. I could talk with them about anything. I am not a religious fanatic and neither were they. Muslim children you are talking about are fully accepted because they were born here and have been going through all stages of education with Polish kids, that`s why they are treated as Poles as they speak perfect Polish. So, they are Polish kids of Muslim or Catholic or non-religious denomination depending on their parents` choice. This is very nice news and how it should be. Unfortunately the situation is not the same in many Western European nations. We in the Netherlands for instance have black migrant kids schools, white native Euroepan Dutch kids schools and mixed schools with both native Dutch and migrant kids schools. I heard from one Dutch teacher on a mixed school that in his class there is segregation between various groups. Turkish kids play and sit in class with Turkish kids, Moroccan kids stay in their Moroccan group and Dutch kids gather in Dutch groups of kids. And some kids mix and merge, but segregation exist. It is a fact that Dutch kids often speak excellent Dutch or in the heavy local dialect or regional language (an extra exlcusion mechanism), and migrant kids have their ethnic accent or slang. Moroccan Dutch or Turkish Dutch, a mix of Arabic and Dutch, Berber and Dutch or Turkish and Dutch. It is great that these kids of mixed parents are treated equally and as Polish kids. In other countries like France, Belgium, but also the Netherlands you had and have racial discrimination. Also the other way around. If migrant groups form a majority in certain neighborhoods or schools and Dutch pupils are the minority, they could be bullied or excluded. Cheers, Pieter |
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