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Post by pjotr on May 25, 2017 3:20:37 GMT 1
Poznań in the seventiesDąbrowskiego w Poznaniu w 1986 r.I remember this Hotel "Orbis Polonez", Poznań - 1984. We had a large family reunion there of Polish family with Polish diaspora branches from the Netherlands (us), the USA (my cousins) and Denmark. It was great that the Poznań and Warsaw family branches were united there with their foreign relatives. These contacts mean a great deal for Polish diaspora members with 100% Polish roots who were born and raised in Poland. Memories and connection to Poland and Polish people never go away. May mother is 84 now and lived in the Netherlands since 1967. She still has Polish phone conversations with Polish friends in Poland and the USA.
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Post by pjotr on May 25, 2017 2:35:14 GMT 1
Images of Poznań I could find on the Internet which remind me of my childhood and teenage memories as a 5/6/7 and 14 and 17 year old. The small Stare Zoo in PoznańI remember this small Indian elephant from the Stare Zoo in PoznańSmall Indian elephant in the Stare Zoo in PoznańZwierzyniecka, Poznań - 1969Ulica Słowackiego w PoznaniuMost teatralny w PoznaniuAll these images I searched for and found are near Mickiewicza 24, the apartment of my dziadek and babcia. I walked around a lot in that neighborhood as a child with my one year younger sister Carine. I loved just walking around, and as a child you are little and don't get a lot of attention so you can see more. I remember, the streets, the boulevards, the charming cinema, the stare zoo, the bridge over the railway tracks, Fredry, and Stary Rynek. Twierdza Poznań - fort VIII remember a sinister story by my mother or Polish familymember that after the war the abandonned Twierdza Poznań (niem. Festung Posen) was a playground for children, but that it was also a playground or habitat of gigantic rats and that one Polish boy was killed by them. It was a scary story for a kid like me with a vivid imagination. I also remember the scary lynx like large dirty street cats that were outside in the little street behind Mickiewicza 24 where a lot of metal waste containers (Peoples republic era waste containers) stood. These cats were scary and probably dangerous> They did not look normal and didn't behave normal. Some of them looked like this, like if they had been in fights or were illThe were huge amounts of Polski Fiat 126p cars in the streets and also Polski Fiat 125p cars and to a lesser extend FSO Polonez cars. Probably the Poles drove in Skoda's, Trabants, Wartburgs and Lada's too? What do you remember Bonobo?Warszawa car, 1962, 1962Typical Polish seventies and eighties truck I saw a lot in Poznań in 1984 and 1987
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Post by pjotr on May 23, 2017 0:57:53 GMT 1
If they cancel such cultural events and keep preventing people from enjoying culture, free press, free speech and a Trias Politica (Separation of Powers) the protests will grow larger and larger. I hope that people who voted for PiS, maybe as a symbolic protest vote, will see whom they voted for power and will change sides and join the opposition!
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2017 23:57:08 GMT 1
Dear Jeanne, That was the most scarry part, but all encounter with the East-German border guards with their uniforms and peak caps, trousers and long black boots looked very much like Wehrmacht, Waffen-SS men. When we went by car through the West-German/East-German border the strict passportcontrol, car control, waiting and staring of the East-German border guards was annoying and scary. Inside the DDR you could be victim of the Volskpolizei (Peoples police) if they set up traps along the Highway. Suddenly in a few dozen meters they had suddenly signs 100 km per hour, 60 km/p/h, 40 km p/h and then 20 km p/h. That was called a Currency trap. We had to stop and the East-German Volkspolizei came to our car and asked a lot of Westmarks from my father for the traffic violation he couldn't avoid because the speed limitation came suddenly, unannounced and to late. The East-German Mark was worthless and the West German D Mark (Deutschmark) and the Dutch Guldens were worth more. This video shows excactly what I experienced back then with my car when we went inside East-Germany from the West-German side. Only it was more crowded when we were there and there were more borderguards in our case. Our experience was worse than in the movie below, because my father with some Second World war anti-German sentiments was tense and to hot blooded at that moment. You could feel the tension and my fathers dislike of these East-German ideological border guards in their uniforms. (My father saw in them the Wehrmacht and SS soldiers and officers of the war, the same arrogance, damn kraut [Mof in Dutch] mentality. Damn Krauts [Moffen] I heard him say. We were nervous that my father would get an argument with the East-Germans. This is excactly how the Grenztruppen Der DDR looked like. You felt it, you saw it, you heard it and experienced it as soon as you entered the West-German/East-German border zone, the feeling of a concentration camps, the Wall in Berlin or the Iron Curtain on the West-German/East-German border. A huge fortified fence with heavy concrete structures behind it, watchtowers, men in these typical Prussian Wehrmacht style, East-German version uniforms. Tall telescopes directed at you, guys in the watchtowers or one the wall watching you with Binoculars. Video camera's and you saw that the space between the various fortified fences and walls was nowmansland with landmines and East German Grenztruppen (border guard forces) with machine guns, rifles and probably other arms. Bonobo was right when he wrote somewhere that these East-German border guards shot about 300 or more East-German civilians who tried to escape to the West. Worse was when we had travelled over the East-German highway for maybe 200 or 250 miles (from the West-German/East-German border to the Polish border) and then arrived at that borders. More traffic, more border guards, East-German border troops. Tension, a lot of checks, cars that were dismantled in front of our eyes (we were sorry for the people, wether they were Germans, Poles, Czechs or had other nationalities). And you stood there for hours, sometimes 5 hours. A long row of miles of trucks, cars, mini busses, vans, motorbikes and etc. The East-German border guards were strict, blunt, agressive, and if you were not lucky, you could have the wrong kind of Polish border guards and customs officers on the other side (the strict, ideological, blunt, square faced, Communist apparatchiks). If we had the wrong kind of Poles there than we had a bad time entering Poland, and if we were lucky we had relaxed, easy and not so strict Polish border guards. With a sigh of relief we then entered Poland on the very bad old bumpy highway, but with wonderful woods and people who stood by the street with large baskets or plastic bags with mushrooms and Chanterelles. We always bough a lot of them and then my Polish babcia (grandmother) who was an excellent cook made a wonderful Polish dish with these Chanterelles, Polish meet, maybe with Pierogi, Kluski or other Polish dishes I forgot. The Chanterelles the Polish people picket in the forest along the highway near the East-German border and which they sold to usThis is a famous photo sequence of the East-German soldier Hans Conrad Schumann who escapes to the West. Hans Conrad Schumann (March 28, 1942 – June 20, 1998) was an East German soldier who famously defected to West Germany during the construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961.
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2017 16:33:47 GMT 1
Dear Jeanne, Bonobo, Tomek, Tufta and Mike and others, There are strange things one can remember from childhood and teenage years. One can remember a place, an era, a decade, a year, a month, a week, a day, a particular moment in that day early morning, halfway the morning, late in the morning, the afternoon, late afternoon, beginning of the evening, half way the evening, late in the evening or at night. A certain hour, quarter of an hour or even a minute. One can have memories that read like a moment in a novel, a prozaic poem or a scene in a romantic high quality art house movie or documentary. Quintessence, quality of life and these essential moments when time seems to halt for a moment. I have these scenes which will stay forever with me from Poznań. 1975, 1976, 1977 (I don't remeber what years excactly, excuse me I was 5, 6 and 7 years old). There were no cell phones, no digital camera's, no internet, no e-mail, no Facebook, no Polish Culture Forums, no youtube chanals, no audio cd players and no DVD's back then. Few people had videorecorders and there were no Windows or Apple PC's, I-pads/talblets or drones who filmed everything. People still read paper books, still wrote letters and postcards on paper and postcards, and they still used the old fashionate wired telephone. Color tv started getting popular and replaced the black and white tv. The Berlin wall, the Iron curtain, the Comecon, Warsaw Pact still existed and the Polish United Workers' Party (PUWP; Polish: Polska Zjednoczona Partia Robotnicza, PZPR) still governed the Polish People's Republic and the Służba Bezpieczeństwa Ministerstwa Spraw Wewnętrznych (Security Service of the Ministry of Internal Affairs) was present in the society. Probably not visibly but they were present, also in Poznań. No doubt they would have been interested in that alien family from the Netherlands who came in that beige silver Ford Traunus Bravo with Dutch number plate, a quite unusual sight in Poland. I knew that the SB listened to my mothers and babcia's (grandmothers) phone conversations between Poznań and Vlissingen (in the Netherlands). We knew that they checked letters, postcards and packages with food or maybe medicines that came from the Netherlands. I remember in the late seventies and especially in 1984 that also in Poland (not only in the DDR, Czechoslovak- and Hungarian peoples republic) I saw uniforms everywhere in Poznań. Communism for us had a militarist element. We saw the blue grey uniforms of the Milicja Obywatelska with their blue grey peaked caps, and the equal shaped grey green uniforms of the soldiers and officers of the Polish Peoples army ( Siły Zbrojne Polskiej Rzeczypospolitej Ludowej ). The visibility of these uniforms on the streets of Poznań made it clear that it was not a normal Western democracy but a dictatorship in which the Milicja Obywatelska was present everywhere. I remember also vehicles, vans (FSC Żuk or ZSD Nysa 522), trucks and cars of the paramilitary-police formation ZOMO (Zmotoryzowane Odwody Milicji Obywatelskiej; Motorized Reserves of the Citizens' Militia in English) when there were tensions in the city. 1956 protests in Poznań, Polish People's RepublicI remember this impressive statue in Poznań to commemorate the events that took place in Poznań in 1956, but also the workers strikes and rebellions which were bloodly repressed by the communist regime in 1968, 1970, 1976, 1980 and 1981 (Marial Law). We took images there and laid some flowers there.The large ZOMO column of trucks, vans and cars must have been in 1984. I saw a large formation driving from Dąbrowskiego in the direction of the Adam Mickiewicz University, the Great Theatre and the Old townsquare (Stary Rynek) in Poznań. I didn't knew what was going on and there was no internet, blogs, news sites to get informed what was going on? Hooliganism didn't arrived in Poland yet. You had Solidarność ( NSZZ „S”), but it was after the Martial law of 1981. Poznań had the name of a rebellious city due to the rebellion of June 1956. I remember that there was some economical depression, some problems with alcoholism and I saw some disturbances due to that alcoholism during the day and evening. But to be honest that wasn't much different than in the Netherlands or any other European country with an alcohol (beer, vodka, genever, whiskey, wine, bacardi.screwdriver [=Vodka+jus de organge mix] culture.). This ZOMO force didn't felt good. They were scary, with to many, and somehow later I must have figured out that these must have been political hardliners (A police force of loyal communist party members, because they had to break dissident forces, anti-communist workers revolts, counter revolutionary activities, rebellion and etc.). I was young when I looked at them back in 1984 (the large column of ZOMO trucks, vans and cars, blue grey like the normal Milicja Obywatelska, but different in uniforms and seize). I was 14 years old and somewhat a late blossomer, not quite my age. A dreamer, a little bit childish for a 14 year old, but already very interested in history and culture. But I certainly didn't know exactly what communism (Marxism-Leninism), socialism and democracy ment. I knew the differences between East and West and that my grandparents, uncles and aunts and cousins in Poznań weren't free. We were there and it was a holiday for me, and so it was relaxed, cosy and thus pleasent. I never felt threatened by Milicja Obywatelska officers, even when they stopped my father once when he drove to fast over a wooden bridge with his Ford Taunus. But the police officer was friendly, nice and forgiving. I will never know where this ZOMO force was heading for? A riot, disturbances of drunken people going out or a large scale exercise? I felt a little bit what a communist dictatorship was at that moment, that was such kind of moment. Another moment was when we in the Netherlands had to go to the Communist Polish embassy in The Hague, where very unpleasent Polish Apparatchiks worked, blunt, rude, square faced, annoying, communist civil servants. It was a lot of stress for my mother to arrange our visa's due to the slow, bureaucratic and deliberate rude communication of this Polish embassy personel. Her Polish passport was taken away from her because she married my father in 1967 and left the great and socialist Poland to go to that Petit Bourgeois, Kulak, Fascist, Imperialist, Neo-colonialist, revisionist, Zionist, evil tiny Western country in Western-Europe, the Netherlands. That evil ally of America and the fascist, reactionairy, chauvinistic West-Germany. This fact was very humiliating for my mother who ofcouse was connected to her Polish roots. Her first 33 years she had lived, studied and worked in Poland. Her first 9 years in Warsaw, and after that probably 10 years in Poznań (pirmary school, highschool and some Polytechnic school) and after that back to Warsaw to work and live where her older sister and other familymembers were too. I told you before that I liked and like Poznań very much with it's layers of old Polish history, Prussian heritage and new Polish history. For me as a child and teenager ofcourse it was a very Polish city. For my mother, who is 100% Polish, rooted in Polish culture, language, traditions, customs, Polish Roman-Catholicism and her very Western Slavic Polish heritage, Poznań was too German in it's atmosphere and even people. The Poznanski dialect, spoken in Poznań and to some extent in the whole region of the former Prussian annexation (excluding upper Silesia), with characteristic high tone melody and notable influence of the German language was not my mothers Polish. I don't know if my mother spoke Standard Polish, the Warsaw dialect or the Masovian dialect of her fathers Eastern-Polish and Warsaw family members. I also don't know if the Poznań family branche of my grandmothers side of the family spoke the Poznanski dialect? Probably not, because most of them originally came from Southern Poland. Ulica Mickiewicza (street) in PoznańDąbrowskiego boulevard in PoznańSo while I understand my mothers favor for Warsaw, fondness of Kraków (the spiritual, original capital of Poland in her eyes, and the city of the Polish intelligentsia of artists, university professors, university students, theatrical playwrights, musicians, poets, writers, philosophers, intellectuals, journalists of quality newspapers and magazines and etc.) and apreciation of Poznań as the city where her parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews and nieces lived and some old friends of her primary and highschool years. But I can't say she was fond of Poznań. I remember how enlightened my mother was when we travelled by train from Poznań to Warsaw in 1984. She saw old friends and colleages back there. She saw her old apartment back, she had to leave behind in 1967, right next to the Palace of Culture in the heart of Warsaw in a modern apartment building (we stayed there for a few days). And how happy she was when she met old Varsovian familymembers in Warsaw again. To be frank, for me Warsaw wasn't beautiful back then in 1984, it was grey, large and not full of life like today. I longed back for Poznań, my babcia, my cousin to play with, the zoo, the cinema, the Poznan streets and boulevards, the Poznań atmosphere. Also the melancholic, romantic, multi-layered aspect of Poznań. If you are a sensitive, poetic, creative soul, Poznań will touch your heart, because that city has something. Maybe it is that mix of Old Polishness, Prussian Germanism and New Polishness (the polonization of Poznań after the expulsion and flight of German population in Post-war Poznań. Poznań was free of Germans, accept my Polish uncle with German roots) that appealed to me. Still for my mother Poznań was too German, due to the German influence on the original Polish population of Poznań. It is a proof that you can try to purify a city, to ethnically cleans a city of foreign influence, but that you can't get history, cultural and linguistic influences out of people. Poznań was to much Posen (the German name for Poznań) for my mother. For a long time dear Bonobo, Jeanne and other Forum members Poznań was in my mind and memory as a novel on your bookshelf (as Nikolai Gogol Saint Petersburg tails about the Nevski Prospect or Fyodor Dostoyevsky's haunting atmoshere in Crime and Punishment -ofcourse my Poznań experience being the positive of the Crime and Punishment negative-), because it was a place with a special atmosphere, special people, special light, special, streets, boulevards, alley's, pathways, courtyards, by-roads (short cuts), pavements (sidewalks), entries (hallways), lobbies, stairs, balconies, roofs, chimney-shafts, old walls drawn by time, natural city scape relief, empty spaces and crowded spaces, tramrails, the traces of trucks, buses and cars on roads, the tall, large, medium-sized and small city trees, plants and flowers. And without having a camera I loved to watch and observe pedestrians, the strangers, Poznań people on the streets, boulevards and squares. The diversity of people despite the limited choice in clothes in the peoples republic (probably many people made their own clothes or there must have been clothes makers). Men, women and children, teenagers, youngster, young adults, babies with their mothers. Standing still and talking with each other. A conversation on the street. People sitting on street benches or in the park. People walking very fast like in every large city, going to their job, to an appointment (meeting), shopping or meeting a loved one or relative. I loved to watch the street Mickiewicza from my grandparents apartment in Mickiewicza 24. And I loved to go outside and walk outside, not understanding what poeple were talking about or what words on signs, billboards or advertisements said. It fed my imagination. Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, experiencing things. I experienced Poland, the Peoples Republic Poland as a child and teenager. I experienced Poznań, and I liked the city, the people, the museums, the cinema, the zoo, the homes of my grandparents, uncles and aunts and friends of my mom. I liked Stary Rynek, the Opera House, the churches, Park Cytadela and the Wielkopolskie Muzeum Niepodległości and the Muzeum Armii Poznań, the Modern buildings next to the old ones, even if they were ugly Communist time grey, concrete buildings with some steal and glass. I remember that one of the large boulevards in the city near the Imperial Castle was called ulica Armii Czerwonej (the Red army street). Another street or boulevard was called after Stalin. The Stalin allee or boulevard or something. Maybe some old Poznań residents will remember that. Today the Royal Castle in Poznań (Polish: Zamek Królewski w Poznaniu) is an impressive sight very near to the Old Town. I haven't been in Poznań since 1987 so, there will probably be a lot of modern buildings built in the late eighties, nineties, the first 10 years of the 21th century and the last seven years. Bonobo posted a lot of images of the new buildings in a thread in this section. I loved watching them. There will be probably new sections of Poznań which are brand new, and next to that I hope that there are completely new sections of old streets, boulevards and squares due to new buildings, between, in, over and next to old buildings. The exiting thing about cities is that they change and that the charm of a city is the layer of building styles, historical architectures styles, combinations from old newer and Ultra-Modern buildings. That's what I like about Berlin, Warsaw, Rotterdam, London, and probably also Poznań. I remember this Modern building in the city center of Poznań from the eightiesModern hotel in Poznań Poznań was rebuilt after World War II and had become the administrative, industrial, and cultural centre of western Poland. As one of Poland’s largest industrial centres, Poznań had and has varied industry that includes metallurgical works; textile mills; clothing and food-, metal-, and rubber-processing plants; chemical facilities; and an automobile factory. Since 1921 it has been the site of a major international trade fair. Due to the expulsion and flight of German population Poznań's post-war population was almost uniformly Polish. The city again became a voivodeship capital; in 1950 the size of Poznań Voivodeship was reduced, and the city itself was given separate voivodeship status. This status was lost in the 1975 reforms, which also significantly reduced the size of Poznań Voivodeship. Wielkopolskie fotopolskaThe Poznań 1956 protests are seen as an early expression of resistance to communist rule. In June 1956, a protest by workers at the city's Cegielski locomotive factory developed into a series of strikes and popular protests against the policies of the government. After a protest march on 28 June was fired on, crowds attacked the communist party and secret police headquarters, where they were repulsed by gunfire. Riots continued for two days until being quelled by the army; 67 people were killed according to official figures. A monument to the victims was erected in 1981 at Plac Mickiewicza. Poznań's Cegielski locomotive factoryThe post-war years had seen much reconstruction work on buildings damaged in the fighting. From the 1960s onwards intensive housing development took place, consisting mainly of pre-fabricated concrete blocks of flats, especially in Rataje and Winogrady, and later (following its incorporation into the city in 1974) Piątkowo. Another infrastructural change (completed in 1968) was the rerouting of the river Warta to follow two straight branches either side of Ostrów Tumski. Communist style pre-fabricated concrete blocks of flats in in Rataje, Poznań. (P.S.- Ofcourse you had the same sort of constructions in Western-Europe. Today problematic neighbourhoods in the Netherlands, France (the balieu's), Germany and Belgium) Communist style pre-fabricated concrete blocks of flats in in Winogrady, Poznań.Poznań is home to several institutions of higher education, including Adam Mickiewicz University (University of Poznań), founded in 1919, and Poznań Technical University, founded in 1921; numerous scientific institutes sponsored by the Polish Academy of Sciences; operatic, orchestral, and dance centres; Poland’s oldest zoological garden; and a number of theatres. The cathedral (erected 968) was completely rebuilt in the Romanesque style following upheavals in the 11th century, though later additions gave it a predominantly Gothic appearance. The cathedral’s gilt-domed Golden Chapel is the tomb of Poland’s early rulers. Also of note is Poznań’s 16th-century town hall, featuring a clock tower from which two mechanical goats appear at noon to lock horns. In addition to the National Museum there are notable museums of archaeology and of musical instruments. Poznań has an international airport and excellent transportation connections to major cities in Poland and the remainder of Europe. Adam Mickiewicz University (University of Poznań)Students of the Adam Mickiewicz University (University of Poznań)Cheers, Pieter Sources: Pierter's memory, wikipedia and Britannica
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2017 3:34:21 GMT 1
Looks like my East-German/Polish border experience. Passport bite! Woher sind sie. Sie sind kein Amerikanerin? Raus, nach draußen.
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Post by pjotr on May 19, 2017 0:25:49 GMT 1
Dear Jeanne, Bonobo, Tomek, Tufta and Mike, Poznań has a special charm with Polish and German-Prussian elements. I remember the city as a child and teenager (14 and 17 years old, I visited the city in 1984 and 1987), and have very good, sentimental, romantic and thus sweet memories about the city, my Polish grandparents there, my Polish uncles and aunts there and my two Polish cousins. The Communist Peoples Republic of Poland Zloty was cheap and our Dutch Guilders were a tough currency, so going to the cinema as a child, going for lunch or dinner in a Bar Mlechny or a Polish restaurant in the Old town or in one of the Orbis state hotels was cheap for us. The same counted fro the little charming Zoo in Poznan, we visit a lot as children, my sister and I. I just loved walking along my grandparents Mickiewicza street and go to the state supermarket, Sam, on the Dąbrowskiego boulevard, and than to the city center over the bridge that went over the rialwaytracks along Teatr Wielki im. Stanisława Moniuszki (Great Theatre or Opera), and then towards the old city center passing some new era late 20th century Peoples Republic buildings, old churches and large buildings probably from the Prussian era. I loved the old Gothic, Baroc & Rocco churches, the museums, the parks and simply the atmosphere of Poznań. What my mother disliked about Poznań is what I loved about Poznań, it's layerd history, and the mix of Polish and Prussian (German( influences. I like Old German cities and towns and therefor also the Posen element of Poznań. My mother has a favor for Warsaw and Kraków, because the atmosphere there is more Polish. My mother considered the atmosphere in Poznań to be German, she disliked the Posen element of Poznań, being a 100% Western slavic Polish woman with no German roots. My Polish mother also dislikes Germany and Germans. She doesn't hates Germans or Germany, but simply dislikes the German atmosphere, the German language and German people in general. (That is a typical trait of the older Dutch and Polish generations.) The German element is the heavy tall buildings like the Imperial Castle in Poznań, popularly called Zamek (Polish: Zamek Cesarski w Poznaniu, German: Königliches Residenzschloss Posen), the classist and Jugendstil buildings (also the appartment building Mickiewicza 24 where my babcia and dziadek lived from 1945 until my babcia's death in 1987. -My dziadek died in 1977-). The Prussian Imperial Castle in PoznańAs a child and teenager I loved the vibrant day and night life of this city with 551,627 citizens. I remembered in the evenings and nights hearing the trams driving over the tram tracks, busses, cars, nightcabs and truckdrivers with their trucks (It was a transport, commercial, trade and production Urban Agglomeration back then and today), and probably the trains that passed nearby. Ofcourse I had the luxery of visiting and staying in my grandparents apartment and visiting several aunts and uncles of my mothers family and probably some friends and acqaintances of them, which made these visits different than someone who was a tourist. What does remains are memories about people, pedestrians, architecture, infrastructure, atmosphere, the fact that the city had some Polishness despite the heavy German influence. The Polishness was in the people, in their humanity, in the spirituality of the Roman-Catholic churches and in the faith of the people themselves in their homes, in the streets where they walked, in their cars, in their gardens, in their parks and in the bars, restaurants and bar mlechny they visited. Like Bonobo described old Krakow or Poland during communism it is a fact that a lot of the buildings were old and grey and brown due to the pollution of coal and Lignite (brown coal), and the fact that a lot of old communist cars produced some air pollution too. The Old Warszawa's and FSO Syrena's that drove around next to the two-stroke straight-twin engines of the Polski Fiat 126p, and other East block cars. Nex to that you had the coal driven communist steam trains, and communist era trucks, vans (FSC Żuk and ZSD Nysa 522) and old busses. Maybe a lot of people also used wood next to coals to get some heating? But next tot the greyness there was a lot of city green in the forms of old city trees and the trees and plants in the city parks. I remember that due to the Western location of Poznań, the Polish family (of whom most originally came from Southern Poland - somewhere inbetween Krakow and Katowice -the Austrian occupied territories- ) weren't particulary fond of Germans despite of the half German heritage of one of the uncles. There was not so much personal hatred against people, but distrust about future intentions of Germans. In the case of Eastern-Germany that wasn't that strange at all, because these Prussian strict East-German communists with their Prussian militarist tradition in their East-German NVA (Nationale Volksarmee, National Peoples Army) army were not to be trusted. Twice large East-German military concentrations were near Poland. In 1968 when the East-Germans considered attacking Czechoslovakia to support the Sovjets and in 1981 when the East-Germans considered entering Poland. So, Poznań was great in the seventies, eighties and probably in the nineties and 21th century too. Poznan today will be cleaner and more modern. When I look at Mickiewicza 24 with Google maps I see that the building has changed completely and the street too. www.google.nl/search?q=poznan&oq=poznan+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2686j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=mickiewicza+24+pozna%C5%84+PolskaIf you look at this Google map link you see the building with Kobiet and materiały biurowe, the window in the corner where the lady is standing on the street under the Kobiet sign and the two windows under the materiały biurowe sign was the large one room apartment where my grandparents lived in Poznan. They shared the hall, the kitchen, the bathroom, the attic, and a cool room (they didn't had a refrigerator) with neighbours. As child you remember your grandparents, that my dziadek was a kind, humble and rather old fashionate man with a hat, suit, small moustache and his typical old generation Polish gentleman behavior and gentle sense of humor. They were rooted in prewar Poland, my dziadek was born in the late 19th century and my babcia in the early 20th century. They had to leave Warsaw in 1944/45 and start a new life in Poznań, the city of my babcia's familymembers. In the twenties my dziadek met my babcia in Poznań where they lived for a short time before leaving for Warsaw, where they lived during the twenties, thirties and early fourties. Due to the Uncle with German roots and connections they found out that the apartment in Mickiewicza 24 was vacant in late 1944 and early 1945, because the Volksdeutsche Nazi (Polish German) which had lived in that apartment was gone (fled or murdered, I don't know). They had some possessions of the Volksdeutscher, which he had left. Some furniture, some paintings, and some Tableware. My grandparents could take few possesions from Warsaw and a lot of their posessions were looted at the end of the war in the chaos of the war ending. My granmother had spend months in Austria in Mauthausen where she did slave work for Austrian farmers and my dziadek was wondering around in Poland after he had escaped from execution in Warsaw by the German/Austrian Waffen-SS. He switched sides from a group of young Warsaw Polish men to a group of Old Polish men. The young men were shot shortly afterwards. By miracle my grandmother escaped from Austria and my grandfather managed to come to Poznań (without means of transportation, income, or places to stay), and my mother and her sister (their daughters) traveled from town to town, being helped by connections, relatives, acqaintances and people who felt empathy for the small (little) girls. It is a miracle that both the Warsaw and the Poznań family survived the war, because the Nazi occupation was anti-Polish, and saw Poles as Slavic subhumans. My Dutch family on my fathers side had hard times in Rotterdam (the bombed Dutch city which was destroyed by bombing on 14 May 1940) too, but you can't compare the Polish suffering with the Dutch suffering. The Germans were irritated with the reluctance of the Dutch to join the Great Germanic Empire of the Nazi Third Reich and became disillusioned with the stubborn Dutch. You had Dutch Nazi's and collaboration with the Germans ( a whole lot more than in Poland, because many Dutch felt themselves to be fellow Germanic people), but not enough in the mindset of the German/Austrian Nazi authorities. To much Dutch people simpy refused to becoma hard line Nazi's. The Germans had hopped the Netherlands to be the same as Austria, but the majrotiy of the Dutch people was less enthousiast then the Austrians who cheerfully welcomed the German Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS forces. Adolf Hitler didn't came to the Netherlands for a victory parade or a speech for large crowds of Dutch people. The Reichskommissar for the Occupied Dutch Territories Arthur Seyss-Inquart was a notorious Austrian Nazi. Hans Frank and Arthur Seyss-Inquart at a parade in Kraków, 1941During World War II, he served the Third Reich in the General Government of Poland and as Reichskommissar in the Netherlands. He fully supported the heavy-handed policies put into effect by Hans Frank , including persecution of Jews. Following the invasion of Poland, Seyss-Inquart became administrative chief for Southern Poland, but did not take up that post before the General Government was created, in which he became a deputy to the Governor General Hans Frank. He was also aware of the Abwehr's murder of dozens of Polish intellectuals. I say that the persecuation of Roman-Catholic Poles and jews in the beginning was worse in Poland then in the Netherlands. The Germans didn't hunt down and murdered Dutch teachers, professors, journalists, scientists and other intellectuals. The persecution of Duch jews started later in the Netherlands, because first the Nazi authorities wanted to show a friendly, fellow Germanic face to the West-Germanic Duch, their so called Brudervolk and Bruderstaat. The Duch didn't felt that way and so soon the things would change to the worse, but they would never become as bad as in Poland. The persecuation of the Polish jews started right away in 1939 with the mass murder of Polish jews by the Einsatzgruppen der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD. The main culprits were members of the Sicherheitspolizei ( Sipo) – consisting of Geheimer Staats- (Gestapo) and Kriminalpolizei (Kripo) –, of the Sicherheitsdienstes ( SD), the Ordnungspolizei ( Orpo) and the Waffen-SS. But also units of the German Wehrmacht intelligence agency Abwehr and Wehrmacht army units took part. Bad elements of the German minirotity in Poland of Volksdeutsche took part in the Intelligenzaktion ( Intelligentsia action) which was a secret genocide conducted by Nazi Germany against the Polish élites ( the Polish intelligentsia, teachers, priests, physicians, et al.) early in the Second World War ( 1939– 45). The genocide operations were conducted to realise the Germanization of the western regions of occupied Poland, before territorial annexation to the German Reich. The executioners of the Einsatzgruppen death squads and the local Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz, the German-minority militia, pretended that their police-work was meant to eliminate politically dangerous people from Polish society. Members of the Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz in police uniformsThe Intelligenzaktion was a major step to implementing Sonderaktion Tannenberg ( Operation Tannenberg), the installation of Nazi policemen and functionaries — from the SiPo (composed of the Kripo and Gestapo), and the SD ( Sicherheitsdienst) — to manage the occupation and facilitate the realisation of Generalplan Ost, the German colonization of Poland. Among the 100,000 people killed in the Intelligenzaktion operations, approximately 61,000 were of the Polish intelligentsia, whom the Nazis identified as political targets in the Special Prosecution Book-Poland, compiled before the war began in September 1939. The Intelligenzaktion occurred soon after the German invasion of Poland (1 September 1939), and lasted from the autumn of 1939 until the spring of 1940; the Nazi genocide of the Polish nation continued with the operations of German AB-Aktion operation in Poland. People in Poznań suffered terribly from the Germanisation policies of the Nazi's and the Intelligenzaktion too. In Poland in general you feel the heritage of the war more than in the Netherlands, because more people were massacred, tortured, murdered and hurt there than in the Netherlands. During the German occupation of 1939–1945, Poznań was incorporated into the Third Reich as the capital of Reichsgau Wartheland. Many Polish inhabitants were executed, arrested, expelled to the General Government (the territory of Warsaw, Radom, Kraków and Lublin) in which or used as forced labour; at the same time many Germans and Volksdeutsche ( Polish Germans) were settled in the city. The German population increased from around 5,000 in 1939 (some 2% of the inhabitants) to around 95,000 in 1944. One of these Volksdeutsche, was the Nazi who lived in my grandparents apartment in Mickiewicza 24. The man could have been a Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz member, or part of the administration of Reichsgau Wartheland, the Nazi German administration of Posen (the German name of Poznań). For some reason my Polish family from my babcia's side managed to survive (maybe due to the German family connections and German family of my Polish uncle with German family roots. He was not a collaborator nor a nazi, but used his connections pragmatically to help his Polish family and wife). Again it was a miracle that my Polish dziadek, Babcia, mother and aunt survived the war in Warsaw, Mauthausen and other places. It was a fifty fifty case, several times they could have died, but God had mercy on them and spared them and granted them a life in Post-War Poznań. I remember that we found Nazi lecture of that Volksdeutsche, my grandparents had put away on top of a shelf in the dark hall in the dark in brown paper that was covered by decades of dust. We found Jahrbücher des Dritten Reichs from 1933 until 1938, Nazi Art magazines with Adolf Hitler on the first page, and awful mean nazi stories inbetween the rather nice art images, beautiful drawn social realistic Waffen-SS books about heroic fighting handsome, tall, blond, blue German soldiers, who were ofcourse victorious towards the enemy. And books of the various army sections; Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine (Navy) and Luftwaffe. My father didn't want to take it with us to the Netherlands, being afraid that the East-German border guards or Vopo's (East-German police) would catch us with nazi lecture. That would have been embarrassing, awkward, and not so wise. We already smuggled that old Polish and German paintings, table ware and other antiques outside of Poland. So I have lot's of memories about Poznań. For a long time I also remembered the atmosphere, smell and sounds, but now I have grown older these memories sadly faded away. I only have memories about the images, people and experiences today. Polish Germans of the Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz Nazi militia in Western Poland during the Second World WarCheers, Pieter P.S.- I have to say that there were also Volksdeutscher who were anti-Nazi. Some of the German Poles also were active in the Polish resistance. Władysław Anders, Emil August Fieldorf, Adam Fastnacht, Wilhelm Orlik-Rückemann, Maximilian Kolbe (Kolbe had a German father), Józef Haller had German roots.
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Post by pjotr on May 15, 2017 17:37:15 GMT 1
LGBT rights in PolandLesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender ( LGBT) persons in Poland may face legal challenges not experienced by non- LGBT residents. Both male and female same-sex sexual activity are legal in Poland, but same-sex couples and households headed by same-sex couples are not eligible for the same legal protections available to opposite-sex couples. Homosexuality was never illegal under Polish law, and Poland was one of the first countries to avoid punishing homosexuality in early modern era. This was formally codified in 1932, and Poland introduced an equal age of consent for homosexuals and heterosexuals, which was set at 15. Poland is one of few countries where sexually active gay and bisexual men are not legally restricted from donating blood. However, there are incidents of discrimination against gay blood donors. Para kobiet uwieczniona na jednej z 30 fotografii kampanii społecznej „Niech nas zobaczą”Many left-wing political parties (Alliance of the Democratic Left, Labour Union, Social Democracy, Palikot's Movement and others) support the gay rights movement and are in favour of appropriate changes in legislation. Individual voices of support can also be heard from the liberal right in the Civic Platform ( Platforma Obywatelska). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Polandpl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sytuacja_prawna_i_spo%C5%82eczna_os%C3%B3b_LGBT_w_Polsce
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Post by pjotr on May 15, 2017 17:31:51 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on May 15, 2017 2:37:19 GMT 1
Dear Bonobo, I see this thread and am very concerned, Poland seems to be taken over by Nancy's, poof's, Queers, fairies, pansy's, queens, Muff Divers, Kiki's, Gillette Blade's, f*g**ts, fruits, Backgammon player's, Mary's, Shirt lifter's, Molly and tommy, Ginger beer, Camp, d**es, poofters, f*gs and bull d**es. Amsterdam must fear the competition from Warsaw, Tel Aviv, Cape town and Kraków. Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pjotr on May 10, 2017 17:39:53 GMT 1
Bonobo, I think that the policies about immigration and refugees should be different. One one side you have the extremely liberal radical left, left and some center right politicians like Angela Merkel, on the other side you have xenophobe, racist, dscriminatory and islamophobe people like Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, Filip de Winter in Belgium ( pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filip_Dewinter ), Heinz-Christian Strache in Austria ( pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz-Christian_Strache ), the guys of Alternatywa dla Niemiec, and the French, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Swiss, British, Hungarian and Polish national conservative rightwing Populists. One side is the lenient and the other side is to strict. I think a middle road is necessery. Real refugees yes, but also a policy, traject and organisation of immediate integration with language lessons from the first day they arrive. Why> Because that is fair to the refugees and migrants and fair to the native Europeans. Language, cultural, ethnic and religious problems are huge in Western Europe due to not integrated first generation Muslim migrants and their offspring. Racism and discrimination must be dealt with but also with identity fraud, lack of integration and getthoisation of European inner cities. You probably know the example of the banlieu's in France. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BanlieueCheers, Pieter
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Post by pjotr on May 1, 2017 20:47:45 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on May 1, 2017 16:35:37 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on Apr 29, 2017 0:48:08 GMT 1
Dear Bo,
I was extremely risky and dangerous what my father did with smuggling that old Polish paintings, porcelain and silver out of Poland. We are very nervous and tense at the border of the Polish Peoples Republic and the DDR (East-Germany) I can assure you. My father drove in a beige silver Ford Taunus Bravo 1600CC with a Popup camper, and the painting and the silver and porcelain were hidden in that Popup camper.
There were very strict controls at that border that day. In front of us and next to us cars were take apart by the Grenztruppen der DDR, Volkspolizisten or Deutsche Grenzpolizei. The East-German border police were scary chaps, because their uniforms were somewhere inbetween Nazi-Germany and Stalinist Sovjet NKVD-Red army uniforms. The contrast between the strict DDR and the somewhat less strict Polish peoples republic was huge for us. We were always releaved when we left East-Germany and drove into Poland. First the Polish uniforms and Polish border guards were less strict and less scarry and secondly they were Polish.
For us there was a clear difference between East-German communism (a sort of mix between Stalinism, Marxism-Leninism and Prussian militarism and discipline) and the Polish communism. Very bad and not democratic either, but a tiny little bit less bad than the East-German, Czech and Hungarians ones. The East-Germans weren't nice not the chaps that controlled our car when we went from West-Germany to East-Germany and from East-Germany to Poland and back, and not their colleagues, when we travelled by train from the Netherlands to Poznan. In East-Berlin alone we sometimes had 3 to 4 controls. They checked our compartment, our luggage, looked in the Vaulkt and they looked under the train with searchlights and German Shepherd dogs.
It was a miracle we weren't caught and left alone after brief checks that day on the border of the Polish peoples republic and the German Democratic Republic (DDR). East-Germany wasn't a pleasent place to travel through and stay for sure. A police state of Stasi and the Volkspolizei.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Apr 22, 2017 18:30:26 GMT 1
I hope Poland will stay part of the European Union, a Union it benefited so much from. Leaving the EU would be against the interest of the Polish people and the Polish economy. I agree with you that in the sense of freedom of expression and freedom of press it is a bad idea to ban an article.
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Post by pjotr on Apr 17, 2017 13:58:40 GMT 1
Rafał PankowskiRafał Pankowski (ur. 1976) – polski socjolog i politolog, doktor habilitowany nauk humanistycznych, profesor Collegium Civitas w Warszawie, zastępca redaktora naczelnego magazynu „Nigdy Więcej”. Ukończył w 1999 studia z zakresu nauk politycznych na Uniwersytecie Warszawskim. Ponadto studiował politykę, filozofię i ekonomię na Uniwersytecie Oksfordzkim[1]. Doktoryzował się w 2005 na macierzystej uczelni w oparciu o rozprawę Rasizm a współczesna kultura popularna, której promotorem była Aldona Jawłowska-Konstanciak. Stopień doktora habilitowanego uzyskał na UW w 2012 na podstawie pracy pt. The Populist Radical Right in Poland[2]. Od 1996 pełni funkcję zastępcy redaktora naczelnego magazynu „Nigdy Więcej”. Jest koordynatorem Centrum Monitorowania Rasizmu w Europie Wschodniej, członkiem zarządu sieci UNITED for Intercultural Action (z siedzibą w Amsterdamie) oraz Futbol Przeciwko Rasizmowi w Europie (z siedzibą w Londynie). Zatrudniony był m.in. jako ekspert-konsultant w Departamencie Tolerancji i Niedyskryminacji OBWE, podjął również współpracę z Chatham House, Policy Network oraz Institute for Strategic Dialogue[3]. Jest autorem książek: Gdzie kończy się patriotyzm...: z dziejów polskich grup faszyzujących 1922–1992 (Bydgoszcz 1993), Neofaszyzm w Europie Zachodniej: zarys ideologii (Warszawa 1998), Rasizm a kultura popularna (Warszawa 2006) oraz The populist radical right in Poland: the patriots (Londyn 2010).
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Post by pjotr on Apr 17, 2017 13:58:19 GMT 1
Far-right Polish priest detained at Stansted airport Jacek Międlar held by UK authorities hours before he was supposed to address Britain First rally in ShropshireJacek Międlar has been accused of spreading antisemitism and Islamophobia.A notorious Polish priest accused of spreading antisemitism and Islamophobia has been detained in Frebruari by UK authorities hours before he was due to address a far-right rally in Shropshire. Jacek Międlar, a leading figure for rightwing extremists in Poland, was held by UK border officials after landing at Stansted airport, Essex, to prevent him attending the controversial event in Telford. The rally was organised by far-right group Britain First. Anti-racism campaigners described Międlar’s scheduled appearance as further proof of the growing links between British extremists and nationalists abroad. Branded a “ fanatical hate preacher” by anti-racism campaigners in Poland, the 28-year-old attacks his critics as “ leftists” opposed to “ Polish patriotism”. Telford was reportedly chosen for the anti-Islam march because of a 2016 Daily Mail report that insinuated the market town was “the new Rotherham” owing to alleged child sexual exploitation in the area. The deputy leader of Britain First, Jayda Fransen, last week tweeted: “Come and stand with us against Muslim grooming gangs!” The protest has been broadly condemned by the town’s residents, including the Conservative MP, Lucy Allan, who accused Międlar and Britain First of attempting to “hijack” the experiences of child sex abuse victims for political traction. Conservative MP Lucy AllanMiędlar, from Wrocław in west Poland, has cultivated a sizeable following in his country and despite being suspended by his local Catholic church for the content of his nationalist sermons, has addressed tens of thousands people at rightwing rallies. His speeches target the political left, “ Islamic aggression” and immigration and are often accompanied with calls for the “ warriors of great Poland” and chants of “ God, honour, fatherland”. Anti-racism campaigners have warned he could radicalise some of the 830,000 Poles living in the UK and called on the UK authorities to intervene before his arrival. UK Border Agency officials reportedly held Międlar shortly after his flight landed specifically to prevent him from travelling to Telford on the grounds of hate speech. Last year, Międlar was accused of calling Jews a “cancer” who had “swept Poland” during one address to a far-right rally in Białystok, north-eastern Poland, although prosecutors later absolved him of alleged hate-speech offences. Maciek has stated that he accepted Britain First’s invitation to speak in Shropshire in a move to “pool our strength to rebuild a Christian Europe”. Britain First, whose founder Jim Dowson has extensive contacts to far-right networks in eastern Europe, can count 1.4m Facebook followers. However, it struggles to attract significant crowds and is believed to have a membership of between 800 and 1,000 people. Międlar’s invitation to speak in Telford, where at least 2,000 Polish speakers in and around the town make it the most spoken language after English, follows a report by anti-rascist group Hope not Hate that a number of Polish far-right groups had become active in the UK. Hope Not Hate warned last week that Międlar’s visit to the UK would bring “ rabid extremism to Telford” and warned that Międlar had once claimed that the “ biggest enemies of the world are Jewish imperialists and masons”. The Home Office said: “ An individual was detained at Stansted airport at 8.40am this morning by Border Force officers working closely with Essex police." “ All passengers attempting to enter the UK are subject to checks by Border Force officers against police, security and immigration watch lists. Where we believe someone poses a risk, Border Force officers can – and do – refuse them entry.” Hope not Hate tweeted: “ Bad news for Britain First: Jew-hating priest Jacek Międlar has been held and prevented from entering the country.” Rafał Pankowski of Poland’s leading anti-racist organisation Never Again said Międlar was “ exceptionally” strident when delivering his hate-filled speeches and that news of his detention had triggered headlines throughout the country’s mainstream media. He said: “ He’s exceptional in terms of the intensity of his hatred, which is a core part of his message.” Rafał Pankowski of Poland’s leading anti-racist organisation Never AgainThe Ultra Nationalist Polish priest Jacek Międlar
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Post by pjotr on Apr 16, 2017 16:54:44 GMT 1
Happy Easter to all of you! Jeanne, Bonobo and the other Forum members.
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Post by pjotr on Apr 16, 2017 16:46:06 GMT 1
Einstellen or "Tuning In" to the Divine EnergyTo connect with and receive this energy, Gröning taught a technique he called " einstellen" (German for " tuning in".) He said that human beings were like batteries that used energy. To maintain health, one needed to daily renew themselves by tuning into the Healing Wave. The practice of einstellen consists of sitting in an upright position with arms and legs uncrossed, and palms facing upwards. He stated that it was very important for the back to be straight and to not have any kind of backrest if possible. Inwardly the practice consists of having the wish to receive the heilstrom, having faith that healing is possible, and then focusing on the body, observing the sensations and feelings thereof. He told people to " take on health" and that in this one regard, in regard to healing that it was permissible, even necessary to be selfish in a manner, that is, to focus on oneself. Gröning claimed that when one tunes into the healing stream, healings can occur spontaneously or slowly, depending on variables such as the quantity of life force flowing through the body, accelerated during "einstellen." Sometimes the symptoms may worsen or increased pain is experienced, before a healing occurs. Gröning called this occurrence " Regelungen" (German for " regulation",) and stated that it is sometimes a necessary part of the healing process.
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Post by pjotr on Apr 12, 2017 23:06:38 GMT 1
Dear Bo, A very good question. It is not my choice. The Ford Transit was bought for Radio live broadcasts with an antenna, large mixing consoles, loudspeakers, wires, cables, antenna's, equalizers, amplifiers, RTV-Arnhem banners, tables, chairs and other equipments. Here you see me at my job closing the door of the Ford Transit in Arnhem. In front of me a colleage of mine, a TV interview reporter and one of the seniors of Television, Jan.The advertisement on the van reads 'Radio & TV Arnhem'. I would prefer a smaller car due to parking possibilities, easier access to some places, but we have a limited budget and believe me or not this Van doesn't cost a lot. We use it for a lot of things, shopping for the company (batteries, new equipment every now and then, driving to destinations which are hard to reach). We often have appointments with accreditation -official allowance to enter an important meeting or special place- and it is nice that with the RTV-Arnhem car we are easily recognisable. I also act as a chauffeur sometimes, picking colleages and guest from home and bring them to a place where they have to interview somebody. I like driving the Ford Transit, love that Diesel Van. But you are right, it is obviously to big for just carrying my tv camera and TV tripod. I would prefer a small Peugeot, Volkswagen or Smart car. But we have the Ford and have to live with it. I am not from the financial department, the accounts (bookkeepers) have their reason for keeping the Ford. Because I drive this Ford for years now and don't have my own car (I have two bikes) I have become a van (Ford Transit) driver. Bo I like my present life style with limited drinking. For some reason my Polish mother has something against alcohol and excessive drinking. I wonder if it has to do with Poland. She hates and despises drunk people. She considers them people without etiquette, discipline, style, dignity and a focus in life. Probably she already disliked alcoholism in Poland during the fifties and sixties. My father loves Dutch genever and a good glass of wine with dinner. But there was never excessive drinking in my family. The disciplin of my mother kept alcohol out of our house. In fact today I like to drink beer without alcohol next to special beers with alcohol. I thank my mother for the way she raised me. I saw people struggling with alcoholism and how that ruined their lives. Alcoholism is present in our European societies and in the USA too. (Jeanne will be able to tell something about the USA). It is true that Vodka has a sweeter taste and is easier to drink, and therefor more risky. I like a screwdriver (vodka with orange jus mix) every now and then. I am a beer drinker, and limited whiskey and wine drinker. I only like good wines and good wines are often expensive. The Netherlands and Belgium have a lot of small breweries and special beers, so I like to drink these beers from small breweries. I don't like Heineken, Amstel, Grolsch or Brand beer. I prefer Jopen, Schelde beer, Hertog Jan or Palm. The Belgians have excellent beers too, also many good Roman-Catholic beer monks beer, abbey beers, like Trappist beer ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trappist_beer ) and the beers of 'my own favorite abbey, the abbey of Berne, in the Southern Netherlands'. Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Apr 10, 2017 23:24:32 GMT 1
Not only European troops Bonobo, but also American, Canadian, British, French (with their colonial heritage, knowledge, information and language/intelligence skills -due to the many Berber, Arab and African language speaking French people with Moroccan, Algerian and Tunesian heritage and people from Mauritania, Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Ivory Coast, Benin, Niger, Chad, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Gabon, the east African coastal enclave of Djibouti (French Somaliland) and the island of Madagascar), Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South-Korea, South-Africa. And with the support of Western allies in the Middle-east like Egypt, Jordan, Saoudi-Arabia, Turkey, Iraq, Tunesia, Morocco and others. In the form of United Nations troops, NATO troops, national armies, The African Standby Force (ASF) ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Standby_Force ) these armies and alliances could create safe heavens in which refugee camps could be built and no-fly zones could be created. If Poland and Hungary want to remain in the EU they should accept some migrants, because Germany and Sweden can't take them all. If you spread all these refugees over 28 European countries and some save heavens in the Middle east and Africa the refugees crisis could be dealt with in a propper manner.
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Post by pjotr on Apr 5, 2017 23:37:16 GMT 1
The Tower of BabelThe Babylonian language confusion caused by human megalomania created the linguistically divided world according to the bible. The Tower of Babel (Syriac: ܡܓܕܠܐ ܕܒܒܠ, Maḡdlā d-Bāḇēl; Hebrew: מִגְדַּל בָּבֶל, Migdal Bāḇēl) is a Near Eastern etiological myth that is recorded in the Jewish Tanakh's first book (Genesis); it is meant to explain the origin of different languages. According to the story, a united humanity of the generations following the Great Flood, speaking a single language and migrating eastward, came to the land of Shinar (Hebrew: שנער). There they agreed to build a city and a tower " tall enough to reach heaven"; seeing this, God confounded their speech so that they could no longer understand each other and scattered them around the world. The Tower of Babel by Pieter Bruegel the Elder (1563)StoryThe story of the city of Babel is recorded in Genesis 11:1–9. Everyone on earth spoke the same language. As people migrated east, they settled in the land of Shinar. People there sought to make bricks and build a city and a tower with its top in the sky, to make a name for themselves, so that they not be scattered over the world. God came down to look at the city and tower, and remarked that as one people with one language, nothing that they sought would be out of their reach. God went down and confounded their speech, so that they could not understand each other, and scattered them over the face of the earth, and they stopped building the city. Thus the city was called Babel. As it appears in the King James version of the Bible: - 1.Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. - 2.They said to each other, “ Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. - 3. And they said, “ Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” - 4. But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. - 5. And the Lord said, “ Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them." - 6. " Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” - 7. So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. 8 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth. — Genesis 11:4–9CompositionThemesThe story of the Tower of Babel explains the confusion of tongues: variation in human language. The story's theme of competition between God and humans appears elsewhere in Genesis, in the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. The 1st-century Jewish interpretation found in Flavius Josephus explains the construction of the tower as a hubristic act of defiance against God ordered by the arrogant tyrant Nimrod. There have, however, been some contemporary challenges to this classical interpretation, with emphasis placed on the explicit motive of cultural and linguistic homogeneity mentioned in the narrative (v. 1, 4, 6). This reading of the text sees God's actions not as a punishment for pride, but as an etiology of cultural differences, presenting Babel as the cradle of civilization. Source: Wikipedia
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Post by pjotr on Apr 5, 2017 23:29:53 GMT 1
Dear Bonobo,
Language is both something very personal and thus individual and subjective and in the same time very communal, collective and to a certain degree objective in the sense of Jurisdiction, law, regulations, rules, guidelines, customs, certain traditions which are described by language.
I find the history of linguistics, the heritage and roots of languages, language philosophy and Hermeneutics fascinating. The history of language goes back far. I wonder if the first speaking, writing and reading people had a common language, or if the division between languages was there since the beginning of time. Language can be a unifyer, but it can also be a cultural, religious, political and philosophical force for division, segregation, tension and conflict (war).
Europe is a continent of language and cultural borders, between various language groups and within these language groups between languages of the same group (Russian vs Ukrainian, Spanish vs French -in the sense of the dominant latin/romanesque world language, Standard Dutch vs Flemish in Belgium, Hochdeutsch vs Austrian/Bavarian/Schweitzerdeutsch), Polish vs Silsesian, Low Saxon vs Frisian).
Culture, tradition, customs, folklore, saga's, reiglious habits, Patriotism, Nationalism, and even Socialism and communism are related to language, and the way language is used by different kind of people, classes, generations and nationalities.
How closely are Polish, Czech and Slovak related. Do they have a shared West-Slavic history? What effect do the regional languages and dialects have on these languages? The language of the Goral people, the Silsesians, the Kashubians, the Sorbs (Lusetians), the Tartars, the Jewish minorities with their Yiddish, ladino and Hebrew languages.
What foreign languages doe most Poles speak? Or what foreign language should Poles be able to speak and they do not?
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Apr 5, 2017 23:09:10 GMT 1
The Polish language became far more homogeneous in the second half of the 20th century, in part due to the mass migration of several million Polish citizens from the eastern to the western part of the country after the Soviet annexation of the Kresy in 1939, and the acquisition of former German territory after World War II. This tendency toward a homogeneity also stems from the vertically integrated nature of the authoritarian Polish People's Republic. The inhabitants of different regions of Poland still speak "standard" Polish somewhat differently, although the differences between regional dialects appear slight. First-language speakers of Polish have no trouble understanding each other, and non-native speakers may have difficulty distinguishing regional variations. The following languages have the status of national minority's language; - Armenian - Belarusian - Czech - German - Hebrew - Lithuanian - Russian - Slovak - Ukrainian - Yiddish And Languages that have the status of ethnic minority's language are: - Karaim - Kashubian - Rusyn, called Lemko in Poland - in Polish: "Łemkowski" - Romani languages: official recognition is granted to the languages of two groups: Polska Roma and Bergitka Roma.[3] - Tatar, called Tartar by the Act Languages without officially recognised status: - Wymysorys - is an endangered language with very few speakers, native to Wilamowice, but contrary to Karaim language having a similar situation, it was practically unknown of in the time of preparation of the forementioned Act. - Silesian - status severely disputed, question whether a dialect of Polish or separate language considered a political issue. Ethnologue distinguishes two Silesian languages, Silesian and Upper Silesian. Languages of new diasporas and immigrant communities These languages are not recognised as minority languages, as the Act of 2005 defines minority as "a group of Polish citizens (...) striving to preserve its language, culture or tradition, (...) whose ancestors have been living on the present territory of the Republic of Poland for at least 100 years": Greek - language of the big Greek diaspora in Poland of 1950's. Vietnamese - the biggest immigrant community in Poland, since 1960's, having their own newspapers, schools, churches etc. History of Slavic languagesDifferentiationThe Proto-Slavic language existed until around AD 500. By the 7th century, it had broken apart into large dialectal zones. There are no reliable hypotheses about the nature of the subsequent breakups of West and South Slavic. East Slavic is generally thought to converge to one Old Russian or Old East Slavonic language, which existed until at least the 12th century. Linguistic differentiation was accelerated by the dispersion of the Slavic peoples over a large territory, which in Central Europe exceeded the current extent of Slavic-speaking majorities. Written documents of the 9th, 10th, and 11th centuries already display some local linguistic features. Division of the Slavic languagesThe tripartite division of the Slavic languages does not take into account the spoken dialects of each language. Of these, certain so-called transitional dialects and hybrid dialects often bridge the gaps between different languages, showing similarities that do not stand out when comparing Slavic literary (i.e. standard) languages. For example, Slovak (West Slavic) and Ukrainian (East Slavic) are bridged by the Rusyn of Eastern Slovakia and western Ukraine. Similarly, Polish shares transitional features with both western Ukrainian and Belarusian dialects. The Croatian Kajkavian dialect is more similar to Slovene than to the standard Croatian language. Although the Slavic languages diverged from a common proto-language later than any other group of the Indo-European language family, enough differences exist between the various Slavic dialects and languages to make communication between speakers of different Slavic languages difficult. Bilingual communes in PolandPolish/Kashubian street name sign in JastarniaThe bilingual status of gminas (communes) in Poland is regulated by the Act of 6 January 2005 on National and Ethnic Minorities and on the Regional Languages, which permits certain gminas with significant linguistic minorities to introduce a second, auxiliary language to be used in official contexts alongside Polish. So far 44 gminas have done this.
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Post by pjotr on Apr 5, 2017 16:15:29 GMT 1
How about Standard Polish, Standard Czech, Standard Slovak, and the Sorbian (Lustetian), Kashubian, Goral, Silesian, Ruthenian, Wend, Russyn, Baltic (Lithunanian), Gypsy (Sinti language), Yiddish, and German and Dutch settler (Mennonites in Poland) and Polish Tartar infuences on the West-Slavic languages. (In that context Sorbian-Lusetian seen as a fellow Western-slav minority language close to Polish and Czech languages)
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Post by pjotr on Apr 4, 2017 22:02:22 GMT 1
This is something in the middle between Dutch and German
It is also close to some Dutch and German Frisian dialects
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Post by pjotr on Apr 4, 2017 21:58:43 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on Apr 2, 2017 15:11:19 GMT 1
This stupid Dutch grocery store owner talks in a very primitive fake Dutch Turkish migrant slang to this guestworker, who speaks back with a Turkish accent, but with an exellent Dutch vocabulary. It shows the habit of Dutch people to take over a conversation of migrant or foreigners with a heavy accent. This Turkish fellow is an example of a perfect integrated Turkish-Dutch person. He has a Turkish accent, but speaks Dutch perfectly with clear Dutch words and sentences. Maybe a little bit old fasionate and perfect, but clearly. The funny thing is that the Duch chap speaks very primitively!
At the end the Turkish fellow says: "I consider the Netherlands to be one of the most civilized countries of Western-Europe, but one thing keeps getting my attention, and that is that Dutch people increasingly use their language inaccurately, with pleasure, dear gentlemen, cheers!"
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Post by pjotr on Apr 2, 2017 14:32:47 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on Apr 2, 2017 13:28:08 GMT 1
In the Netherland the West Germanic language Duch gets some influence from English and German, we for instance speak about Germanisms in the Dutch language. I love to use them but sometimes receive criticism of Dutch compatriots such as " Why do you use that Germanism or German expression, can't you find a Dutch word for that?" Germanism in the Dutch language, German words used in Dutch sentences: - Überhaupt (anyway, generally, absolutely, ever, altogether, after all) - Fingerspitzengefühl (= is a German term, literally meaning "finger tips feeling" and meaning intuitive flair or instinct, which has been appropriated by the English and Dutch languages as a loanword. It describes a great situational awareness, and the ability to respond most appropriately and tactfully. It can also be applied to diplomats, bearers of bad news, or to describe a superior ability to respond to an escalated situation. The term is sometimes used to describe the instinctive play of certain football players. In social context, fingerspitzengefuhl suggests a combination of "tact, diplomacy and a certain amount of sensitivity to the feelings of others". It is a quality that can enable a person to " negotiate tricky social situations".) Some Dutch words clearly have a German background: - beduidend (German bedeutend) for " signifficant; - begeestering ( Begeisterung) voor " enthousiasm"; - meerdere ( mehrere) for " several or various"; - eenduidig ( eindeutig) for " unambiguous or unequivocal". Other words with a clear German infuence: - autobaan - Autobahn for highway - bemerking - Bemerkung for a remark - beroepsmatig - berufsmäßig for professional - de zestiger jaren - die sechziger Jahre for the sixties - eerstens - erstens for First - geëigend - geeignet for appropriate, decent, suited - hij leve hoog! - er lebe hoch for he lives high (long)! - inschatten - einschätzen for judging - instelling - Einsteillung for attitude, mentality, outlook - keelkop - Kehlkopf for larynx - maatgevend - maßgeblich for decisive ; determinant ; normative - middels - mittels for by means or through ; by way of - omkleden - umkleiden for to change ; to put other clothes on ; to cover ; to sheathe - onderbouwen - unterbauen for to found, to build, substantiate, to base ; to ground ; to lay foundatios of; to corroborate - steekwoord - Stichwort for keyword; the entry; the headword; reference word heading; descriptor; subject heading; subject word - steenrijk - steinreich for wealthy; very rich; immensely rich; opulent; rolling in money - technieker - Techniker for technician; technical expert; technicist; technical engineer; engineer; laboratory technician - zich vertypen - vertippen for to make a typing error; to make a typo; to make an error type; to make a typographical error Do you have in Poland something like Slavicism, Rusicism or Protoslavic influences in Polish. Are there Eastern-Slav and Southern-Slav (Yugoslavian) influences in Poland or influences of other Western slav languages like Czech ( Bohemian), Slovak, Lechitic, Silesian, Pomeranian language (Polish: Grupa pomorska języków lechickich, German: Pomoranische Sprache), Kashubian, Sorbian ((Lusatian), Lower Sorbian and Upper Sorbian? LusatiaLusatia (German: Lausitz, Upper Sorbian: Łužica, Lower Sorbian: Łužyca, Polish: Łużyce, Czech: Lužice) is a region in Central Europe. The region is the home of the ethnic group of Lusatian Sorbs, a small Western Slavic nation. It stretches from the Bóbr and Kwisa rivers in the east to the Pulsnitz and Black Elster in the west, today located within the German states of Saxony and Brandenburg as well as in the Lower Silesian and Lubusz voivodeships of western Poland. Historically, Lusatia belonged to several different countries. Being part of the Lands of the Bohemian Crown (the so-called Czech Lands) for three hundred years, alongside them it passed to the Habsburg Monarchy and from it to the Electorate of Saxony. The greater part passed to the Kingdom of Prussia in 1815 and the whole region merged into Germany in 1871. After the conquest of Eastern Germany (the later DDR) by the Soviet Red Army and the partition in 1945, the eastern part of Lusatia along the Lusatian Neisse river was given to Poland where the boundary is called the Oder–Neisse line. In the Polish part today Polish is spoken, and in the German part German, Upper- and Lower Sorbian. The biggest Lusatian town is Cottbus (Lower Sorbian: Chóśebuz). Bonobo, have you ever heard of Lusatian Sorbs in Polish Silesia? Have you ever heard their language. They are a very tiny, small minority in both Germany and Poland, but still hold their traditions, customs, folklore (dress, markets, festivals) and language. This is procession of Easter Riders in Upper Lusatia, April 2011. They belong to the autochthonous Slavic minority in Germany, the Lusatian Sorbs), and the ride is one of their most important folk traditions. You can hear them singing in the Upper Lusatian Sorbian language. The filmed event took place in Radwor (Radibor) in Saxony, Germany.Mass in the Sorbian languageCan you understand any of it Bonobo?
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