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Post by coco on Apr 11, 2010 21:50:42 GMT 1
<<<<Her body hasn`t been identified yet. Most bodies are in very bad condition. DNA testing will be used. >>>>
Thank you Bonobo for replying back to me. How sad?
Be Strong and Take Care!
By the ways, Polish People who are living in Chicago, IL are shocked and put their Polish Flags up with Black Ribbons. They all went to St. Adabert Cemetery in Niles, IL. to pray in front of Katyn Monument and place beautiful flowers over there. Some went to their churches. They are so sad.
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 12, 2010 10:45:09 GMT 1
<<<<Her body hasn`t been identified yet. Most bodies are in very bad condition. DNA testing will be used. >>>> Thank you Bonobo for replying back to me. How sad?  4 bodies have been identified by relatives who had arrived to Moscow this morning. Polish and Russian specialists are working together to help to identify the rest of victims. Some families refused to take part in the last stage of identification, i.e., looking at bodies. Russian authorities are giving all necessary help to Poles and even more than is necessary. Comments on Russian treatment of the accident and its aftermath are very positive, both Polish TV and media are extensively praising Russian reaction. Individual Russians express their deep sympathy with the Polish nation. Russian media are gentle and reserved when they comment on Kaczyñski`s death, who had made a few anti-Russian moves in the past. Yesterday the main channel of Russian TV showed the film Katyñ, it was a surprising move, suggests that Russians are very serious about the matter. Today there is a day of mourning in all Russia. It seems that both Slavic nations may get closer now. Despite all differences, we are so similar. |
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Post by justawoman on Apr 12, 2010 15:03:51 GMT 1
Hello All
I am Russian and I know only Bonobo on this forum
I came here to say that Russiansl feel a great regret about the death of Poles.
Though Polish government have been seen as strongly russophobe the news about the air crash aroused pity in mass, no signs of rejoice. It was really a shock for us too.
I have seen the photos of the crew - they were so young...
We had to celebrate a Day of Cosmonautics today.
We have a mourning day instead and only a few protested about it.
It is a good sign in a view of Russian-Polish relations.
It is also very sad that the tragedy happened in connection with Katyn ...
It is really a great pity
Elena
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Post by tufta on Apr 12, 2010 15:40:01 GMT 1
Hi Elena. I appreciated your words.
Large part of Poles is quite moved by the 'overstandard' reaction of Russian leadership, the friendliness and openess shown on the way to explain the reasons of the catastrophe, their true concern. On the other hand we are not surprised at all by the heart on the hand reactions of ordinary Russian people. Their words and deeds of empathy reach us here in Poland. They are of great help in our trauma and are truly appreciated.
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 12, 2010 21:39:28 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 12, 2010 21:49:05 GMT 1
Hello All I am Russian and I know only Bonobo on this forum I came here to say that Russiansl feel a great regret about the death of Poles. Though Polish government have been seen as strongly russophobe the news about the air crash aroused pity in mass, no signs of rejoice. It was really a shock for us too. I have seen the photos of the crew - they were so young... We had to celebrate a Day of Cosmonautics today. We have a mourning day instead and only a few protested about it. It is a good sign in a view of Russian-Polish relations. It is also very sad that the tragedy happened in connection with Katyn ... It is really a great pity Elena Thanks, Elena. Poles notice Russian sympathetic attitude and are grateful for it. PS. Good to hear from you. Whenever you vanish from both forums for a long time, I start worrying if you are OK.  PS2. Tomorrow Russian kids are coming to my eldest son`s primary school, some kind of exchange. He has just taken a bath and is going to wear formal clothes tomorrow. Respect! |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 12, 2010 23:27:11 GMT 1
Yesterday, the coffin was transported from Russia to Poland. Ceremonious farewell      From Warsaw airport to the Palace through the whole city. I try not to watch TV but yesterday I made an exception and was really touched.      Today, mourning continues in Poland.        Students paid tributes to the perished, especially in schools visited by the presidential couple.    A film made on the site just after the crash by a Polish reporter who had come to Smoleńsk earlier. He is walking around the site, not aware what he is filming, finally, to his horror, he discovers Polish signs on a broken part. www.fakt.pl/Wstrzasajacy-film-z-miejsca-katastrofy,artykuly,69072,1.html |
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Post by coco on Apr 13, 2010 0:43:08 GMT 1
Well Done! You have taken good pictures & best pictures for all of us.
I am giving you A+ for best shot of pictures.
I appreciated it very much.
Take Care!
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Post by coco on Apr 13, 2010 18:23:49 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 13, 2010 21:28:09 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 13, 2010 23:09:43 GMT 1
It has been announced that President and his wife will be buried at Wawel Cathedral catacombs, next to Józef Piłsudski, and together with Polish kings. See Wawel Cathedral tombs |
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Post by valpomike on Apr 14, 2010 14:28:15 GMT 1
When will the funeral be for the Polish President? Who is going from the U.S.A.? Will the U.S. President or Vice President be there?
I can't find anything in our local area news on this.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 14, 2010 15:30:20 GMT 1
When will the funeral be for the Polish President? Who is going from the U.S.A.? Will the U.S. President or Vice President be there? I can't find anything in our local area news on this. Mike Obama will come to attend the funeral on Sunday. The decision of Church authorities to put Kaczyński in Wawel sparked objections and protests. Yesterday, a few hundred young people demonstrated in Krakow in protest against the decision. They shouted that Kaczynski didn`t deserve to be buried next to Polish kings. Today, some protests arised in Warsaw, too. Warsavians would like to have Kaczyński buried in Merit Alley in Powązki cemetery. After all, Kaczyński had been a mayor of Warsaw before he became the President. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 14, 2010 21:23:26 GMT 1
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Post by tufta on Apr 14, 2010 21:51:31 GMT 1
Warsavians would like to have Kaczyński buried in Merit Alley in Powązki cemetery. Not all Warsavians. I fully agree with the idad that Lech Kaczynski is buried in Wawel. He died in office, he was a patriot, and he TRIED to makew his vision of strong Poland come true. Wawel is not a place for angels without mistakes, this is a place for patriots who did fight for theiir vision. I seldom agreed with Lech Kaczynski as a president. Despite many grave mistakes I do adimire and accept his historic role as the one who 'awoke' many Poles in their pride and history. He has in a way made a"Warsovian intelligentsia' point of view , a countrywide phenomenon. More than enough to be there - in Wawel. |
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Post by tufta on Apr 14, 2010 21:53:40 GMT 1
30 coffins have arrived in Warsaw today. The pain of relatives is indescribable. Thank you for your excellent coverage, It is s good that I regret it is exlucisve to forum members. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 14, 2010 22:12:22 GMT 1
Thank you for your excellent coverage, We owe it to Him. I do not forbid people to register here. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 14, 2010 22:20:35 GMT 1
Warsavians would like to have Kaczyński buried in Merit Alley in Powązki cemetery. Not all Warsavians. I fully agree with the idad that Lech Kaczynski is buried in Wawel. He died in office, he was a patriot, and he TRIED to makew his vision of strong Poland come true. Wawel is not a place for angels without mistakes, this is a place for patriots who did fight for theiir vision. I seldom agreed with Lech Kaczynski as a president. Despite many grave mistakes I do adimire and accept his historic role as the one who 'awoke' many Poles in their pride and history. He has in a way made a"Warsovian intelligentsia' point of view , a countrywide phenomenon. More than enough to be there - in Wawel. As a Krakovian, I must say I have nothing against. I agree - people buried in Wawel crypts were not angels. E.g., Piłsudski - he also committed grave mistakes. And a few kings there were good-for-nothing spoilt kids. Kaczyński deserves to be buried there. The facts which are surfacing now prove that many people, including me, had a distorted view of him. Distorted in result of his twin brother`s influence. I read that the man who organised the protest in Krakow is a member of youth PO party. If it turns out to be true, I will stop voting for PO in local municipal elections. Crazy guys, really. |
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Post by tufta on Apr 15, 2010 7:37:08 GMT 1
Btw. there were protest before Piłsudski or Mickiewicz were to be burried in Wawel, too. Nothing extraordinary  |
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Post by tufta on Apr 15, 2010 7:41:44 GMT 1
Btw 2 Hat off to you, Bo for your integrity! |
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Post by coco on Apr 15, 2010 20:46:53 GMT 1
Btw 2 Hat off to you, Bo for your integrity! I wishes Bonobo is back on full time in here. I kinda miss him already. Maybel his children can help him posting messages for us. Best Polish Forum in here. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 15, 2010 22:21:49 GMT 1
I wishes Bonobo is back on full time in here. I kinda miss him already. Maybel his children can help him posting messages for us. You haven`t noticed that after the crash I have been a full-time admin again. My kids are too busy doing English homework which I assign to them and have no time to take part in forums.
Seventy bodies identified
15.04.2010 12:22
So far bodies of seventy one out of 96 victims of Saturday’s crash have been identified.
According to the Russian news agency Interfax, thanks to analysis of documents, personal belongings, visual features and DNA tests morticians in Moscow managed to identify seventy bodies.
The body of President Kaczynski was identified in Smolensk at the crash site.
On Wednesday, thirty bodies of the crash victims arrived in Poland, including former defence minister and candidate in this year’s presidential elections Jerzy Szmajdzinski, Wladyslaw Stasiak and Pawel Wypych from the Chancellery of the President and Slawomir Skrzypek, president of the National Bank of Poland, Krzysztof Putra, deputy Speaker of the Parliament and Piotr Nurowski, chief of the Polish Olympic Committee.
Today, thirty more bodies are expected to arrive, including the body of the last president in exile Ryszard Kaczorowski, whose coffin will be displayed at the Belvedere Palace.
Twenty-six bodies still need to identified.
www.thenews.pl/national/artykul129589_seventy-bodies-identified-.html |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 15, 2010 22:32:37 GMT 1
Btw. there were protest before Piłsudski or Mickiewicz were to be burried in Wawel, too. Nothing extraordinary Yes, sth normal in democracy, but still such silly protests spoil the atmosphere. |
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Post by coco on Apr 16, 2010 0:33:16 GMT 1
Yes, Bonobo!
I have noticed how hard you have been working in here.
We all should bow to you for your wonderful pictures and news.
A+++++++
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Apr 16, 2010 5:00:28 GMT 1
I recently heard of the tragedy suffered by the Polish people and wished to express my condolences from the people of the United States. It is sad and even ironic that this would occur in relation to Katyn. I am also sure that if anyone could suffer such a loss and maintain their poise and dignity it would be the Polish people.
God bless you all.
-Tim
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Post by tufta on Apr 16, 2010 7:19:42 GMT 1
I recently heard of the tragedy suffered by the Polish people and wished to express my condolences from the people of the United States. It is sad and even ironic that this would occur in relation to Katyn. I am also sure that if anyone could suffer such a loss and maintain their poise and dignity it would be the Polish people. God bless you all. -Tim Thank you, Tim. It is appreciated! |
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Post by justawoman on Apr 16, 2010 10:45:19 GMT 1
This is the article that has been spread in Russian free media aiming to reach the Polish reader though. I thought I could post it here. "The tragedy in the Katyn forest spotlighted both the twists and turns of Russian-Polish relations and anomalies concealed in the human nature that have not been noticed yet, or that they have no desire to notice.
The strange circulation emerged: the Polish were terribly surprised with the sympathy of Russians, and Russians were astonished with the Polish acknowledgment.
Why is it bad? Because nobody was amazed at the very fact that this normal behavior was astonishing. To tell the truth, when I learnt about the jet crash I didn’t think either about the Polish people or about the innocent. My first thought was: “It’s getting really tough”. I had no doubt who would be blamed for “Katyn-2”– Moskals and Putin, who had worked in FSB, the successor of KGB. This very fact explains everything ranging from the crop failure and to the earthquake in Haiti. A good many of people even started to criticize the Russian authority for sables for the Polish President and “excessive” attention paid to his death. I couldn’t bring myself to tell this. God is my witness that I have never respected Kachinsky and considered him responsible for anti-Russian policy – for the attempt to deploy ABM elements, implicitly violating the nuclear equilibrium and provoking the start of the nuclear war, for the support of risk-taker Saakashvili, for the disruption of talks on energy issues with Europe…the list is long. But Kachinsky is legitimately elected president of Poland. Together with him there were people representing Poland in the jet. To express disrespect for them would mean to express lack of dignity to Poland and the Polish people, to descent to level of squabble and to continue it near the graves. It would have been an extreme meanness.
But I hopelessly watched out leaders’ efforts. I thought that these efforts looked like rather wonderful but pointless display of generosity: in any case we would be blamed in what had happened.
But then a strange thing happened: Poland accepted our compassion. Poland accepted it with astonishment: it couldn’t be so that Russians are humans.
This reaction affected me but I had already been gripped by another performance to pay attention to this small scratch. I watched Poland being reassured, reminded, reasoned into recollecting itself and coming to its senses.
“What are you doing? They are Moskals! They are KGB”- they were saying.
Information agencies in Romania, Israel, the USA and Georgia, not paying attention to investigation results, to the flight recorder data, set out conspirologic leads. Romania even spoke about the beam weapon.
But Poland didn’t listen to them. Poland wanted to believe us. Poland thanks Russia for meaning well by Poland. Only Arthur Gursky continued to state the he blamed Moscow. By the reaction of the Polish was immediate and decisive so that Mr. Gursky had to apologize.
Now it was our turn to be surprised. Does it mean that we are no longer “Moskals”?
Then astonishment was replaced by gratitude. It was somewhat like the gratefulness of the charged after the declaration of the non-guilty verdict.
But this gratitude was followed by serious and unpleasant thoughts.
I dislike the very fact that each of the parties was astonished to see the other party acting correctly. This reaction is based on the presumption of ferocity. A Pole thinks that “a Moskal is not able to sympathize with the Polish”, a Russian is sure that “a Pole would never believe Russians”. It turned out to be wrong. And we were puzzled.
The words and deeds seemed to break the distorting mirror and we saw each other.
What had been the way of looking at each other before the tragedy? Who provoked this vision?
One may think that people, who are not interested in the very existing of Russian-Polish relations, are involved in forming them. We have been living listening to bad advisers. They tend to be mediators though we don’t need them. They try to persuade the Polish that they are the only people who are able to understand Russians and vice versa.
They always remind us about Katyn and Tuchola not to let us live in the current day. They try to forbid us see a human in each other. They avoid reminding us that there were two flags on the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin - a Polish one and a Soviet one. For them there is no more devastating remembrance than this. I don’t mean Germans, by the way. I’m speaking about those people who are proponents of the millenary predominance and the end of history ideas that could be achieved only by means of “divide and rule” principle.
Why not to tell them that we don’t need such mediators anymore! Let’s at last tell them that they are fired!"
Roman Nosikov
www.eastwest-review.com/article/nature-astonishment
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Post by tufta on Apr 16, 2010 19:56:12 GMT 1
How well I understand the author's uneasiness while realizing all of a sudden that both sides acted... normally, humanly, and are... astonished about that. Thanks for posting and I regret I can't answer more broadly at the moment.
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Post by valpomike on Apr 17, 2010 16:13:06 GMT 1
We here in the USA, the Polish-Americans, want to send all our support and love to those of you in Poland, for you loss, and want to help you through the next few days of this bad thing.
All our prayers go out to you all. They are now with God.
Mike
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Post by tufta on Apr 17, 2010 20:36:30 GMT 1
Thank you Mike.
Today the funeral ceremonies have been concluded in Warsaw.
Tomorrow the final ceremony will take place in Krakow.
Through all those days of the collective mourning a lot of solemn music was played. I'd like to share with all of you one song which I found has some magical trait of actuallu depicting the atmosphere here. No need to undertand the Polish words, just listen.
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