|
|
Post by valpomike on Sept 25, 2010 15:03:30 GMT 1
It is good to see that Poland is still investigating this, and could, without the help of Russia, someday find the truth. Like I said, in the past, this is not over yet.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Oct 1, 2010 20:25:39 GMT 1
It is nothing serious, just Russian obsession with secrecy, the legacy of communist system.
Polish journalists detained in Smolensk
01.10.2010 15:35
Russian soldiers have detained three Polish journalists at the site where the wreck of the plane which crashed near Smolensk, western Russia is being kept.
The detained journalists are Arleta Bojke from TVP, Marek Osiecimski from TVN24 and Przemyslaw Marzec from RMF FM.
When spotted at the site, the Polish journalists say they were taken to a nearby military building by soldiers and asked for written statements explaining their presence.
“We wanted to approach the plane wreck to see whether Russians have started putting a shelter over it,” said Marek Osiecimski.
The journalists were at the site to see if Russia was keeping to its promise to protect the wreck after a video last month emerged on Youtube showing the uncovered remains of the plane which crashed on April 10 killing all 96 on board including President Lech Kaczynski.
The detained journalists say they had not seen any No Entry signs nor was the area fenced off.
The journalist claim that they had not even approached the place where TU-154 remains are being kept, which is isolated by a barbed wire.
“We asked two soldiers how we could film the wreck. They took us to a person who was supposed to tell us this but instead we were detained and our passports and accreditations were confiscated,” said Osiecimski.
photo - Włodzmierz Pac, Polskie Radio
Polish consul in Moscow has pleaded with Russian local authorities and Severny airport management for the release of the Polish journalists.
Polish opposition MPs are surprised and outraged at the news about the journalists’ detention.
“If it’s true that the journalists were detained while performing their duties, then this will be an international scandal,” said Marek Wiklinski from the Democratic Left Alliance.
The MP thinks that Poland’s foreign minister Radoslaw Sikorski should immediately ask the Russian ambassador to Poland for an explanation.
“We need to find out as soon as possible who ordered the arrest of the Polish journalists,” said Mariusz Kaminski, a Law and Justice MP and member of the parliamentary committee on foreign affairs.
“There’s no point adding fuel to the flames,” argued Stefan Niesiolowski, from the ruling Civic Platform party, however, adding that he is absolutely sure the Polish journalists will soon be released.     |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Oct 2, 2010 15:53:42 GMT 1
See, like I said, there can be more to the story, that Russia does not want us to know.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Oct 2, 2010 22:33:34 GMT 1
See, like I said, there can be more to the story, that Russia does not want us to know. Mike No, Mike, believe me. Russians weren`t involved. There was no need for it. It is sad but true. |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Oct 5, 2010 15:39:28 GMT 1
I still can't buy this story. In time, the truth will come out, I hope.
You can't ever trust the Russians, or Germans, they will turn on Poland, whenever it is good for them.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by tufta on Oct 6, 2010 6:39:49 GMT 1
I still can't buy this story. In time, the truth will come out, I hope. You can't ever trust the Russians, or Germans, they will turn on Poland, whenever it is good for them. Mike Every country will sooner or later 'turn on' any neighbour country if the latter is not able to prevent it ;D ;D Besides, look at that: You can't ever trust the Americans they will sell Poland, whenever it is good for them. |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Oct 6, 2010 16:50:52 GMT 1
Again, what makes you so upset with the Americans? Could it be that in WW II, we came to your aid? Or could it be that we, again, the good Polish-Americans, not our president, care that no one takes advantage of Poland? I am getting more upset, with your thinking, why do you think so bad towards the Americans? Please explain you thinking on this.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Oct 6, 2010 22:37:40 GMT 1
Again, what makes you so upset with the Americans? Could it be that in WW II, we came to your aid? Or could it be that we, again, the good Polish-Americans, not our president, care that no one takes advantage of Poland? I am getting more upset, with your thinking, why do you think so bad towards the Americans? Please explain you thinking on this. Mike Mike, there is a major difference between Polish Americans and Americans. If we talk about the former, we all know they are great patriots of Poland and they have always volunteered to fight for the old country. You are probably one of them. When we talk about other Americans, who constitute the majority of US, they don`t care about Poland. Example - Roosevelt, who sold Poland to Stalin for nothing. Be realistic and admit- which group of Americans has influenced the American politics in the last 60 years? Polish Americans or other Americans? When you get your answer, you will understand Tufta`s opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Oct 7, 2010 3:32:22 GMT 1
I just think he had a bad day, and I still don't understand his thinking on this. Could be I may never. Most of the USA is on the side of Poland.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Oct 7, 2010 7:52:44 GMT 1
I just think he had a bad day, and I still don't understand his thinking on this. No, he didn`t. He had a very good day. He was only realistic, not romantic. One day you may understand it..... Could be I may never. Most of the USA is on the side of Poland. Mike No, Mike, face the reality. Most of the USA don`t care about Poland. |
|
|
|
Post by tufta on Oct 7, 2010 9:16:29 GMT 1
I just think he had a bad day, and I still don't understand his thinking on this. Could be I may never. Most of the USA is on the side of Poland. Mike I hadn't a bad day ;D ;D I agree with you that USA is on the side of Poland, Mike. And Poland is on the side of USA. I am an example of stongly proamerican people in Poland. I have been to your country I am moderately interested in international politics and I know your country better than average Pole. And I repeat - your initial statement You can't ever trust the Russians, or Germans, they will turn on Poland, whenever it is good for themis true to exactly the same degree as my mirror one You can't ever trust the Americans they will sell Poland, whenever it is good for them. |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Oct 8, 2010 4:38:56 GMT 1
Like what and when. I still hear and read of people and groups who are sending things to help Poland. This congress, that will change after this election, next month, will again, as in the past care for Poland, I am sure. This leader only cares for his own. We have been there for Poland in the past, and will be again, I am sure. Now Poland things are doing better than here in the USA, but we don't ask of Poland, for anything.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Oct 8, 2010 21:30:16 GMT 1
Now Poland things are doing better than here in the USA, but we don't ask of Poland, for anything. Mike Mike, Poland can send sleeping bags to American homeless. |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Oct 8, 2010 23:41:51 GMT 1
If you can, and would, they can use them, and this is true.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by tufta on Oct 9, 2010 8:16:32 GMT 1
If you can, and would, they can use them, and this is true. Mike Mike - it was Jerzy Urban, the spokesman of communist government during martial law in Poland 1981-1984 who offered sleeping bags to the USA ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
|
|
Post by pjotr on Oct 9, 2010 14:39:20 GMT 1
Jerzy Urban looks like a frog, and it looks like he is better of today than as he was as the Communist party spokesperson in the eightees.  |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Oct 9, 2010 16:06:19 GMT 1
Again, Dam those Russians. Now they need the sleeping bags, and no one wants to help.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by tufta on Oct 10, 2010 14:18:19 GMT 1
Again, Dam those Russians. Now they need the sleeping bags, and no one wants to help. Mike If you say damn those.... (Russians, Germans, whatever) you agree that someone says Damn those Americans. |
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Oct 10, 2010 23:05:00 GMT 1
Ceremonies have been held in front of the Presidential Palace in Warsaw as well as in Smolensk, western Russia, in order to commemorate the victims of the presidential plane crash six months ago.
Large groups had gathered to pray, light candles and lay flowers in memory of President Lech Kaczynski, First Lady Maria, as well as 94 accompanying top politicians, chief military representatives and other members of veterans’ organisations who died in the crash.
Sunday’s memorial ceremonies in Warsaw were also attended by the late president’s brother, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the leader of Law and Justice (PiS), the major opposition party.
Meanwhile, some 200 members of the victims’ families have travelled to Smolensk to the site of the tragedy of six months ago. They are accompanied by First Lady Anna Komorowska. The group has been joined by the wife of the Russian president, Svetlana Medvedeva.
On 10 April, the presidential Tupolev-154 crashed on landing near Severny military airport in Smolensk, killing all passengers and crew. The delegation was on its way to Katyn for a remembrance mass in honour of the Polish POWs murdered in the surrounding forests by the Soviets in 1940Katyn, April 2010   Smoleńsk, October 2010      Russian president`s wife       Warsaw, October 2010, antigovernment demonstration. 
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Oct 21, 2010 19:07:05 GMT 1
Poland to be blamed for Smolensk air disaster?
21.10.2010 11:21
Pilot error and other factors on the Polish side are blamed for the Smolensk air disaster in the final report by the Russian Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK).
Gazeta Wyborcza is claiming that according to an undisclosed informant familiar with the Russian investigation, the 210-page long report by MAK suggests that mainly Poles, including the pilots, were to blame for the air disaster.
According to MAK, Russian air traffic controllers did not make any mistakes and therefore were not responsible for the crash on 10 April that killed 96 of Poland’s political elite and top brass.
The final report includes 72 conclusions concerning the circumstances and causes of the disaster and six recommendations on how to avoid such tragedies.
Poland can submit comments on the Russian report until 19 December.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Nov 6, 2010 23:20:46 GMT 1
Time for Smolensk mourning is over, says leftist candidate
04.11.2010 17:17
Wojciech Olejniczak; photo - PAP
Left wing candidate for mayoral elections in Warsaw, Wojciech Olejniczak, has said that it is “time to stop mourning the tragedy of Smolensk,” and start a serious debate about the future.
Olejniczak, a former leader of the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD) blew out a symbolic candle in front of the Presidential Palace on Thursday in front of assembled journalists.
“We all experienced that tragedy but let me say clearly […] that after All Saints Day, after a period of reflection, the time of mourning is now over. I propose an end to mourning and suggest a serious, substantive debate about the future, about what we need to change Poland,” said Olejniczak.
The SLD candidate for president of Warsaw said however that he will never forget those close to him who died in the plane crash which killed 96 politicians and military top brass.
“I will never forget [SLD politicians] Jerzy Szmajdzinski, Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka - people whom I knew who died near Smolensk. But above all I remember what they taught me - to work positively [for the future].” he said.
Local elections take place in Poland on 21 November and 5 December.
|
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Nov 7, 2010 15:09:03 GMT 1
We, all must never forget what happen, and why it happened. They will all be in our hearts forever.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Nov 10, 2010 23:59:12 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Dec 17, 2010 23:35:54 GMT 1
PM slams Russian Smolensk catastrophe report
17.12.2010 16:31
Polish PM Donald Tusk has slated the Interstate Aviation Committee’s report into the Smolensk catastrophe, saying that some of the Russian findings have been difficult to ascertain by Polish investigators.
Talking in Brussels during an ongoing EU summit, Tusk said that the Russian draft of the report was “unacceptable” and that some of the verdicts proclaimed by the Russians are not in line with Polish findings as well as the Chicago Convention.
However, asked by journalists on Friday morning, Tusk stressed that the Polish opinions drafted to the Smolensk findings do not constitute an alternative report into the catastrophe.
Donald Tusk’s statements come as Polish findings and opinions on the Interstate Aviation Committee’s report were sent by diplomatic bag to Moscow, Thursday.
The Polish document contains around 150 pages, and is to be taken into account by Russian investigators who are now billed to draw up a final report into April’s Smolensk catastrophe.
Poland received the first draft of the Russian-led Interstate Aviation Committee’s report on 20 October, and according to the Chicago Convention, had 60 days to annotate the report and draw up its own conclusions to the Russian findings.
The Interstate Aviation Committee is now billed to take the Polish findings into account before the release of the final report, although regulations do not stipulate when it will be released.
|
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Dec 18, 2010 15:58:34 GMT 1
I still think Russia was to blame. Could this be? What do you think?
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Dec 22, 2010 22:38:48 GMT 1
I still think Russia was to blame. Could this be? What do you think? Mike Rather not. I don`t support any conspiracy theories attached to the crash. |
|
|
|
Post by valpomike on Dec 23, 2010 14:47:03 GMT 1
I do, I support all the conspiracy theories, and this gives us a freedom of what we think. Someday you will see, we are correct. Never trust the Russians.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Dec 23, 2010 18:32:44 GMT 1
Someday you will see, we are correct. I don`t think so. Why not? They are our Slavic brothers..... |
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Jan 16, 2011 18:37:50 GMT 1
Pilot error cause of Smolensk crash, say Russian investigators
12.01.2011 10:55
Tatyana Anodina, head of the Russian investigative team into the Smolensk air disaster (Interstate Aviation Committee - MAK) has blamed pilot error in the resubmission of the report into the death of President Kaczynski and 95 others in Smolensk last April.
Anodina presented the conclusions of the report in Moscow, Wednesday morning.
The main conclusions to the revised, 210 page report – after Prime Minister Donald Tusk asked for clarifications and corrections to the original document handed over to Poland last October – are that:
* the crew failed to take the decision to land at another airport, as suggested by air traffic control despite information of unfavourable weather conditions.
* a dangerous drop in altitude despite poor visibility [heavy fog] and despite warnings from the control tower.
* a lack of correct reactions from the pilot despite warnings issued by the automatic Terrain Awareness and Warning System
* the crew repeatedly received information that meteorological conditions did not meet minimum requirements for landing.
* the crew did not make the decision to fly to a reserve airport – that is when the extraordinary circumstances ensued
* the crew attempted to land despite conditions below minimum requirements, thus taking on full responsibility for the consequences.
* using the autopilot while landing was not stipulated in aviation rules for landing in such conditions.
* the crew decreased altitude with speed exceeding the safe rate twofold
* the presence of the head of Poland’s Air Force in the cockpit and the predicted negative reaction of the main passenger {President Kaczynski] exerted pressure on the crew to land.
* collaboration between the crew was less than satisfactory.
* the deficiencies of the airport’s infrastructure and its equipment were not the reason behind the catastrophe.
* it was an international flight, where the main pilot had the right to decide independently on the landing or leaving the airport.
The 'second Katyn'
The report is being released in its entirety on the internet this morning in English and Russian and is sure to cause controversy in Poland among those who suspect a cover up by the Russian investigators as to the real causes of the disaster.
The original report was sent back by PM Tusk in December, saying some of the conclusions and methodology were “unacceptable” and not in keeping with the Chicago Convention on international aviation disaster investigations.
Suspicions as to the motives behind Russian conclusions as to the cause of the crash in western Russia - as President Kaczynski, First Lady Maria and 94 top politicians and military were on their way to an anniversary ceremony of the 1940 Katyn massacre – emerged almost immediately after the fatal crash on 10 April last year.
Artur Gorski from the Law and Justice party said three days after the crash that Russians have “come up with some dubious reasons” as to the cause of the disaster because they feared President Lech Kaczynski's presence would overshadow a similar event hosted by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, and attended by Prime Minister Tusk a few days before.
That theme has continued ever since.
Twin brother of the late president and leader of the Law and Justice party Jaroslaw Kaczynski has said that negligence and collusion between governments in Warsaw and Moscow has assured the real truth has not come out. (pg/ab)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Russian report ‘vilifies’ memory of Smolensk victims, says widow
13.01.2011 12:49
Ewa Blasik, widow of the late Air Force commander General Andrzej Blasik, says it was not possible that her husband had been drinking alcohol before the Smolensk air disaster, which killed him and 95 others last April, as was inferred by yesterday’s Russian report into the causes of the tragedy.
“The report […] is a shameful attempt to vilify the memory of my husband,” Ewa Blasik told reporters today.
“It is not possible that my husband consumed alcohol,” says an aggrieved Ewa Blasik, refuting the claim in the Russian Interstate Aviation Committee’s Smolensk disaster report that General Blasik had 0.6 per mille of alcohol in his blood when he died on 10 April in western Russia.
Last May it emerged that General Blasik was in the cockpit with the pilots at the time of the crash, something that Edmund Klich, Poland’s envoy to the Russian investigation, said at the time was “highly unusual”.
The Russian investigators confirm in their report that according to black box recorders, General Blasik was in the cockpit as the TU-154 approached Smolensk airport in thick fog.
The Russian report claims, however, that pressure was being put on the plane’s pilots to land in poor weather conditions by a possibly inebriated general.
The general’s widow says, however, that there is no evidence that her husband was intoxicated, nor that he put any pressure on the pilots to land in Smolensk so President Lech Kaczynski could be on time for a 1940 Katyn massacre anniversary ceremony.
Mrs Blasik’s anger reflects the reaction of many in Poland who took offense to the central claims of the Russian report, which put the blame for the crash on the Polish side and pilot error in particular.
Ewa Blasik says that her husband was a man of honor, and the Polish government should defend the dignity of its officers.
“I would like to protest against the passivity of the government of PM Donald Tusk,” she said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian Smolensk report – fact or fiction?
12.01.2011 15:26
Smolensk monument in Warsaw
We get reaction to the 210 page report released by Russia today on the causes of the Smolensk air crash.
Reporter Slawek Szefs gets initial Polish comment on the report released today by Russian investigators on the causes of the Smolensk air crash on 10 April last year which killed President Kaczynski and 95 others on board.
“Every reasonable person in Poland knows that the cause of the crash was a certain bravado showed by the Polish pilots, who felt under pressure, knowing how important the visit was going to be,” said former MEP and defence minister Janusz Onyszkiewicz, referring to the anniversary of the 1940 Katyn massacre which President Kaczynski was on his way to attending when the plane crashed in western Russia.
“I did not expect any opinions other than that expressed by [the Russian investigators] with close links to centres of power in Moscow,” says Andrzej Jonas, editor-in-chief of the Warsaw Voice.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Poland: Russia must take Smolensk crash responsibility, too
13.01.2011 12:39
The Polish government has indicated that the Russian claim that the air disaster in Smolensk last April was “pilot error” is not the whole story and that Russian air traffic controllers must take some of the blame, too.
Poland’s Interior Minister Jerzy Miller claims that Russian authorities put pressure on air controllers at Severny airport to allow the doomed presidential plane to land in spite of difficult weather conditions.
Prime Minister Tusk, now returned from his holiday in Italy, will be making a statement on the Russian report into the disaster, released yesterday, on Thursday.
The Polish government's claim is in direct contradiction to the Russian report into the Smolensk disaster released yesterday, which included the claim that the pilots of the TU-154 were under pressure to land so that President Lech Kaczynski could attend a 1940 Katyn anniversary memorial service in western Russia.
Minister Miller, head of the Polish committee investigating the cause of TU-154 crash, has revealed that next week the committee is going to publish transcripts of conversations between Russian air control centre at Severny airport and Moscow officials.
The transcripts, which Poles received from a source other than the Russian Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK) which wrote yesterday’s report, prove, claims the Polish government, that Russian air controllers were the ones under pressure.
Col. Nikolai Krasnokutsky, in charge of Severny airport at the time of catastrophe last April, made a phone call to an unidentified person and tried to persuade him that the air control centre should not agree for the landing of the plane because of thick fog.
The person, however, say Polish sources, forbid closing down the airport.
“Instead of allowing the Polish pilots to descend to 100 metres, they should have firmly forbidden it,” Miller says.
The interior minister did not outright reject Russian claims that the crash was caused by pilot error, but stressed that Russians were not well-prepared for Tu-154 flight to Smolensk either, and should also take responsibility for the disaster.
“As early as March [2010] we knew that Severny airport was not properly equipped to receive the presidential plane,” said Miller.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonobo on Jan 17, 2011 23:32:22 GMT 1
Now, the full truth will some day all come out. Than all will see what I was saying is correct. Mike You are very stubborn! ;D ;D ;D True Pole! But I am stubborn too, Mike, and I claim that Poles committed crucial mistakes while Russians only minor ones. It is sad but true. We can say that Poles are mainly responsible for the crash. |
|
