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Post by Bonobo on May 12, 2010 21:02:45 GMT 1
Recent research in the genetic heritage of Poles and their neighbours has shown that Poles and Russians share about 50% of the same genes. It is more than Poles share with their another neighbour, Germans. It is justified to say that Poles and Russians stem from the same root and only silly twists of history made us opponents most of the time. Why? The main reason behind Polish Russian contest was, I believe, religion. Poles adopted Roman Catholicism, Russians had their Orthodox Church. In times when religion played a crucial role it was really hard to reach some compromise. Also disputes over Eastern lands and who should control them mattered. The competition to take control started as early as in 1018. In 1018, the Polish king, Boleslaw Braveheart, summoned by the ruler of Rus who has just lost his power, organizes a military campaign in the East and goes as far as Kiev. For today`s Russians the city was the place where Russian nation came into being. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiev_Expedition_%281018%29 The King Boleslaw Chrobry with the Rus ruler Swiatopelk at the Golden Gate in Kiev.At the request of his son-in-law Sviatopolk I of Kiev, the Polish duke intervened in Kievan affairs: not only did he expel Yaroslav the Wise from Kiev, but possibly he deployed his troops in Rus' capital for about half a year. During this campaign Poland re-annexed the Red Strongholds, later called Red Ruthenia, lost by Bolesław's father in 981. The king is holding a sword. It is Szczerbiec, the Notched Sword. The legend says the king hit the Golden Gate while leaving Kiev. It is not true because the Gate was constructed long after Chrobry`s arrival to the city.
****It is a sword that was traditionally used in the coronation ceremony of Polish kings. It is the last surviving part of the Polish Crown Jewels - the crowns and other items were lost during numerous wars in the past.
Although according to the legend it was used by Bolesław I Chrobry (Boleslaus the Brave, 992-1025), who notched it when hitting the Golden Gate of Kiev in 1018, it was most probably made in the 12th century, possibly for prince Konrad of Masovia. The Golden Gate was constructed in 1037, some time after Chrobry went to Kiev. Szczerbiec was used during coronations of Polish kings from the time of Władysław Łokietek to the time of partitions (around 1792).
After the partitions, it was first captured by Prussians, who in 1796 took it to Berlin. Sold by a private collector, the sword went to Ermitage Museum in Sankt Petersburg. Finally in 1928 the Soviet Union gave it back to Poland, in accordance with the Treaty of Riga. At the outbreak of the World War II in 1939 it was evacuated from Poland to France. Then in 1940 it was evacuated to Canada, together with the gold deposits of the Polish banks. It came back to Poland in 1959.
It is currently on display in the Wawel Royal Castle Museum, Kraków.**** Today, in our times, on 9 May, the anniversary of the end of WW2, reconstruction groups, dressed as Soviet soldiers, together with Polish Army representative company and Russian veterans, attend ceremonies at the Red Army cemeteries in Poland. Ordinary Poles light candle lanterns on Soviet/Russian graves. It has taken almost 1000 years to realise that it is high time to bury the hatchet. Both countries need each other. 9 MAy, Warsaw, Red Army cemetery          |
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Post by Bonobo on May 12, 2010 21:37:09 GMT 1
From 11 century, Poland, located in central Europe, expanded eastwards. From 15 century, Russia, located in eastern Europe, expanded westwards. The area which was divided by powers was today`s Ukraine and Belarus. See the maps:   polandsite.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=polishhistory&action=display&thread=602In fact, it was Lithuania which conquered most of Moscow Kingdom in 14 century. But Poland was allied with Lithuania which got weaker and weaker, forcing Poles to give extensive military aid. We can say that most of Polish Russian hostility at the time were instigated by Lithuanians, who wanted to keep their territorial gains but were unable to do it on their own so that is why they needed Poles who weree only to happy to lend a hand. Poland helped Lithuanians keep their independence from Russians for 300 years. Simply speaking, we saved their asses for 3 centuries. Without that, there wouldn`t be an independent Lithuanian state today. Historical background
[edit] 14th century: Lithuanian expansion
Expansion of the Lithuanian state in the 13–15th centuries
Russia and Lithuania had been involved in a series of conflicts since the reign of Gediminas, who defeated a coalition of Ruthenian princes in the Battle on the Irpen' River and seized Kiev, the former capital of Kievan Rus'. By the mid-14th century, an expanding Lithuania had absorbed Chernigov and Severia. Algirdas, the successor of Gediminas, forged an alliance with the Grand Duchy of Tver and undertook three expeditions against Moscow, attempting to take advantage of the youth of the Grand Prince of Moscow, Dmitry Ivanovich, who nevertheless succeeded in fending off these encroachments.
The first intrusions of the Lithuanian troops into the Moscow principality occurred in 1363. In 1368 Algirdas carried out the first major expedition against Moscow. Having devastated the Russian borderland, the Lithuanian prince routed the troops of the prince of Starodoub Simeon Dmitrievich Krapiva and prince of Obolensk Konstantin Yuryevich. On November 21 Algirdas put to rout the Moscow sentry troops on the river Trosna. However Algirdas could not seize the Moscow Kremlin. The troops of Algirdas ruined the area around the of city and captured significant amount of the Muscovite population. In 1370 Algirdas made another expedition against Moscow. He ruined the area around of Volok Lamskiy. On December 6 he besieged Moscow and started to devastate the surrounding area. Having received the message that the prince Vladimir Andreevich was coming to help Moscow, Algirdas returned to Lithuania. In 1372 Algirdas attacked the Moscow principality again and reached Lubutsk. However the Grand Prince of Moscow Dmitry Ivanovich routed the sentry troops of Algirdas and Lithuanians concluded with Moscow an armistice. In 1375 Algirdas devastated the Smolensk principality.[1]
Some elements in Muscovy wished to gain control of all territories that once were part of Kievan Rus, many of which were at that time under control of Lithuania (including today's territories of Belarus and Ukraine). Further, Moscow wished to expand its access to the Baltic Sea, an increasingly important trade route. Thus the conflict between Lithuania and Russia was only just beginning.More: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscovite%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Wars |
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Post by Bonobo on May 12, 2010 21:39:02 GMT 1
After Kiev expedition in 11 century, the first serious clash took place in early 16 century and wars continued till 20 century. At the beginning, Poles were better organised, so they used to win, even occupied Moscow for a while. Later, when Polish anarchy took over, Russians gained superiority and occupied Poland. Here, the list of major wars: Name Results 1 Kiev Expedition (1018) Polish victory 2 Livonian War (1558–1583) Polish victory 3 Polish-Muscovite War (1605–1618) Polish victory 4 Smolensk War (1632–1634) Status quo 5 Russo–Polish War (1654–1667) Russian victory 6 War of the Polish Succession (1733–1735) Indefinite 7 Bar Confederation (1768–1776) Russian victory 8 Polish–Russian War of 1792 Russian victory 9 Kościuszko Uprising (1794) Russian victory 10 November Uprising (1830–1831) Russian victory 11 January Uprising (1863) Russian victory 12 Polish–Soviet War (1919–1921) Polish victory 13 Soviet invasion of Poland (1939) Soviet Russian victory en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Russian_WarThe intervention in the Kievan succession crisis of 1015—19 by the Polish ruler Bolesław Chrobry was an episode in the struggle between Sviatopolk I Vladimirovich ("the Accursed") and his brother Yaroslav ("the Wise") for the rulership of Kiev and Kievan Rus'. It occurred when Sviatopolk's father-in-law Bolesław, ruler of Poland, intervened on Sviatopolk's behalf.
The intervention was initially successful as Bolesław defeated Yaroslav's armies, and temporarily secured the throne for Sviatopolk. But when Bolesław withdraw himself and his army from Kiev, Sviatopolk was unable to retain his position, being defeated by Yaroslav in the following year. Chronicles of the expedition include legendary accounts as well as factual history and have been subject to varied interpretations.
Fall and occupation of Kiev
Bolesław Chrobry and Svetopelk at Kiev, in a legendary (if ahistorical) moment of hitting the Golden Gate with the Szczerbiec sword. Painting by Jan Matejko.
Bolesław's victory opened the road to Kiev, already under harassment from his Pecheneg allies.[1]
At Boleslav's instigation, the very strong city of Kiev was disturbed by the constant attacks of hostile Pechenegs and severely weakened by fire. It was defended by the inhabitants, but quickly surrendered to the foreign warriors, after its king [Yaroslav] fled and abandoned it.[23]
The city, which suffered from fires caused by the Pecheneg siege, surrendered upon seeing the main Polish army on August 14.[26] The entering forces, led by Bolesław, were ceremonially welcomed by the local archbishop and Vladimir's family:[26]
On 14 August, the city received Boleslav and Sventipolk [i.e. Sviatopolk], its long-absent lord. Thereafter, through his favour, and from fear of us, the whole region was brought into submission. When they arrived, the archbishop of that city received them, at the church of St Sophia, with relics of the saints and other kinds of ceremonial apparatus.[23]
A later popular Polish legend related to the history of the Polish coronation weapon, the Szczerbiec sword, is the tale of the Golden Gate of Kiev, upon which the Szczerbiec was supposedly notched when Bolesław's entered the city.[26] This legend has no historical basis, however, and the gate was only built approximately 20 years later, while the sword itself was not forged until 200 years later. It is of course possible, however unlikely, that Bolesław notched another gate with another sword, thus giving rise to the legend.[27]
Bolesław sent his German and Hungarian mercenaries home after Sviatopolk was re-established on the Kievan throne, "the populace" having "flocked to him" and having "appeared loyal".[20] It is not known how long Bolesław remained in and around Kiev. The 10 months given by the unreliable account of Gallus is fanciful.[28] Bolesław in fact departed within a few months and, as Thietmar died on December 1, 1018, Bolesław must have been back in Poland a good time before December.[28]
The Primary Chronicle alleges that as the result of Polish plunderings, Sviatopolk ordered "that any Lyakhs [i.e. Poles] found in the city should be killed".[25][29] The resulting unrest, according to the same source, forced Bolesław to leave Kiev, whereupon Sviatopolk was left to fend for himself.[2][24][25][29][30] This negative turn of events is omitted in the only contemporary source, Thietmar of Merseberg's Chronikon.[31] By contrast, his summary of the expedition, written in a part of the Chronikon not devoted to the expedition, recounts that:
Duke Boleslav invaded the Russian king's realm with his army. After placing his long-exiled brother-in-law, the Russian's brother, on the throne, he returned in high spirits.[32]
According to Thietmar, Bolesław asked Yaroslav to return his daughter, whom Yaroslav had taken prisoner.[26] As Yaroslav refused, Bolesław took members of Yaroslav's family to Poland as prisoners when he returned to his country in September. His captives included Vladimir's widow and Yaroslav's sister, Predslava, whose hand Bolesław had sought earlier. Having been rebuffed, Bolesław now took her as a concubine.[26] The Polish duke also took some commoners as well as much of the treasury of Kiev.[30] Among the notable commoners was the venerated Saint Moses the Hungarian.[2]
In the past some historians (such as Zhylenko and Kostomarov) have conjectured that Bolesław decided to rule Kievan lands himself, though Bolesław had no power base there and no Rurikid blood.[2][24][26] Bolesław's main motivation, according to the interpretations of modern historians, was to regain the Cherven towns for his patrimony, while at the same time aiding his kinsman, to whom he had an obligation.[33][34] The expedition also furnished an occasion to enrich his followers from Kiev's famous wealth. Bolesław, soon after his arrival, sent a significant force to quarter in Kiev and nearby towns, forcing Kievans to sustain them, and collected significant tributes that he divided among his allies.[26] It was related by Thietmar that before departing, Bolesław was shown an unspeakable amount of treasure, most of which he distributed among his friends and supporters.[20]
On many later occasions in the Kievan period the rulers of Poland, as well as Hungarians or Pechenegs, were paid to intervene in Rus succession disputes; in the case of Bolesław II, the Polish monarch took the money without making any expedition.
More: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiev_Expedition_%281018%29 |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 9, 2017 23:51:19 GMT 1
Today, in our times, on 9 May, the anniversary of the end of WW2, reconstruction groups, dressed as Soviet soldiers, together with Polish Army representative company and Russian veterans, attend ceremonies at the Red Army cemeteries in Poland. Ordinary Poles light candle lanterns on Soviet/Russian graves. It has taken almost 1000 years to realise that it is high time to bury the hatchet. Both countries need each other. 9 MAy, Warsaw, Red Army cemetery I wrote this text 7 years ago. Much has changed since that time. Russia invaded Ukraine and has revived its old imperial rhetoric. Poland which feels endangered invited US troops. Russians strengthen their army in Kaliningrad region. I thought warming was possible but I was naive. As usual.  |
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Post by jeanne on Feb 10, 2017 0:46:19 GMT 1
Today, in our times, on 9 May, the anniversary of the end of WW2, reconstruction groups, dressed as Soviet soldiers, together with Polish Army representative company and Russian veterans, attend ceremonies at the Red Army cemeteries in Poland. Ordinary Poles light candle lanterns on Soviet/Russian graves. It has taken almost 1000 years to realise that it is high time to bury the hatchet. Both countries need each other. 9 MAy, Warsaw, Red Army cemetery I wrote this text 7 years ago. Much has changed since that time. Russia invaded Ukraine and has revived its old imperial rhetoric. Poland which feels endangered invited US troops. Russians strengthen their army in Kaliningrad region. I thought warming was possible but I was naive. As usual. Perhaps it is not that you are naive, but that hope springs eternal... |
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