Polish character

[Bonobo]

Continual attempts of Kaczyński twins to stir Polish emotions against German neighbours seem to prove that they still find glad recepients of their anti-German attacks.

So, it is fair to add one more feature to the Polish character: suspicion of Germany, which is partly justified because Poles remember what Germans did here during the occupation, but on the whole are nonsensical because today`s Germans are peaceful people who by no means plan to invade Poland again.




Poland's Kaczynski bashes Germany in run-up to EU poll
The Local - Hamburg
28 May 09
Two weeks ahead of the European elections, Poland's right-wing opposition leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski is stirring up anti-German sentiment in an attempt to garner votes.

Kaczynski, leader of Poland's PiS Law and Justice party and twin brother of Polish Presidend Lech Kaczynski, this week called on Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk to address the EU election platform of Germany's conservative Christian Democrats (CDU/CSU) with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Merkel's party and its Bavarian allies have called for the outlawing of forced displacement internationally, and that rights to one's homeland are respected. Kaczynski claims the Germans will use these clauses to try to repopulate the Western areas of Poland that were part of Germany until the end of the Second World War. Tusk`s PO (Civic Platform) party, along with the CDU and CSU, belongs to the European People=E 2s Party in within the European Parliament.

The CSU Secretary General Alexander Dobrindt described Kaczynski's claims as the "unbearable interfering of a someone forever stuck in the past." He said that reconciliation and coming to terms with the injustices of displacement belonged together, and added that he hoped Prime Minster Tusk would not "rise to the bait."

The parliamentary head of Tusk's party, Zbigniew Chlebowski, said that the PiS was exploiting "anti-German phobia and the language of aggression" and said that Kaczynski should stop using rhetoric aimed at Poland's western neighbours.

But in resorting to stirring anti-German sentiments, the national conservatives are using a tried and tested method. In 2005, they secured victories in the parliamentary and presidential elections in part by defaming Tusk's grandfather as a volunteer for the German Wehrmacht during the war.

This time, however, Kaczynski's efforts don't look likely to be successful: in a poll published on Wednesday, Tusk's party held 47 percent of support against 25 percent for the national conservatives ahead of the EU vote on June 7.

[tufta]

May 31, 2009 12:39:28 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Continual attempts of Kaczyński twins to stir Polish emotions against German neighbours seem to prove that they still find glad recepients of their anti-German attacks.

So, it is fair to add one more feature to the Polish character: suspicion of Germany, which is partly justified because Poles remember what Germans did here during the occupation, but on the whole are nonsensical because today`s Germans are peaceful people who by no means plan to invade Poland again.

Well, I see it differently. First of all right now we are talking about Jarosław Kaczynski or rather PiS party only. Which is more to the left than the ruling PO, and thus cannot be 'right-wing opposition' as some media like to call them. We are not talking about both twins as luckily Mr. Presidents stopped to (oppenly) get involved in what he shouldn't be involved in.

I can't see any more anti-German attacks from PiS than anti-Polish attacks from CDU/CSU in their recent new manifesto. Both CDU/CSU and PiS are involved in a political INTERNAL game of power in their respective countries. And Jarosław Kaczyński is just cleverly using politically the gifts he received from CDU/CSU. No problem here.

The problem, and much deeper one than direct and short-term political games is the lack of appropriate answer to the extremely wise and smart game by the CDU/CSU played long-term to their Polish EU-coilaition partners from PO (which I am a voter for). PO fails to respond clearly to the CDU/CSU manifesto. Grave mistake as THIS is a real game. Poland's German partners and friends may of course build the new German identity the way they like. But they should be in a very friendly manner but clearly and assertively informed on matters relevant to us, that the displacement of Germans after WWII were both historically and morally justified and that we don't accept any rights of the displaced to the ' native lands' or whatever they call them. But this mistake will be soon cleared.

[Bonobo]

Jun 2, 2009 12:30:57 GMT 1 tufta said:

But they should be in a very friendly manner but clearly and assertively informed on matters relevant to us, that the displacement of Germans after WWII were both historically and morally justified and that we don't accept any rights of the displaced to the ' native lands' or whatever they call them. But this mistake will be soon cleared.

I thought they released a statement calling for the act of condemnation of atrocities committed during expulsion of Germans. Now I read they want to officially condemn expulsions themselves. So this is wrong, of course.

[Bonobo]

Poles quick to condemn yet excuse themselves
thenews.pl
12.06.2009

Poles condemn infidelity, divorce, child abuse and putting one's parents into a nursing home, according to a recent CBOS opinion poll.

The poll shows that sixty six percent of Poles do not approve of divorce and 31 percent think premarital sex is wrong. Every fifth Pole disapproves of living together in a relationship without being married, yet twenty percent of those polled claim to be in such a relationship.

Ninety-one percent of those who participated in the poll think there is no justification for cheating in a relationship yet 26 percent of men and every fifth female admits to having been unfaithful at some point or another in their relationship, according to research carried out by sexology professor Zbigniew Izdebski.

Poles similarly do not approve of putting their elderly parents in a nursing home. The CBOS poll shows that such an idea would not even cross 84 percent of Poles minds.

Ninety-five percent of Poles think that beating their child is bad and can never be justified.

"It is a paradox," explains social psychologist Janusz Czapinski. According to Czapinski, Poles do not recognize their `sins' and rather tend to find explanations for them. "Beating children is associated, for us, with dramatic violence, so we never think that we actually cross those barriers. […] Everything is a question of definition," adds the psychologist.

[Bonobo]

Poland crashes kill 65, hurt 801 in 3 days

WARSAW, Poland, June 15 (UPI) -- Polish police blamed reckless driving, often under the influence of alcohol, for 612 road accidents that killed 65 people and injured 801 during a long weekend.

Mariusz Sokolowski, inspector at the national police headquarters, told Polish Radio Monday road patrols intercepted 2,683 people driving under the influence of alcohol, a 30 percent increase in the number of intoxicated drivers during regular road checks.

Sokolowski condemned drivers for aggressive driving without respect for their own safety and that of others, contributing to the increased number of accidents and casualties.

[Bonobo]

Oct 16, 2009 22:17:20 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Oct 16, 2009 21:14:57 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Many people bought out their apartments in 1990s and recently. As a result, they feel completely at ease in the area, e.g., they ignore no parking signs.

And there they are...parking on the sidewalks again! Those Poles!!

Yes, one might think it is completely negative - people ignore law. And intrude on other people`s freedom by blocking the sidewalk.

However, I can discern a positive aspect of that too. In US or Germany such behaviour is rather impossible because people inform on each other to the police. One call and a police car arrives after a few minutes and deals with the parking offender or the car.

In Poland, especially in Krakow, people are not informers or moles. And they are able to forgive each other. Krakow is a claustrophobic place, there is a shortage of parking spaces, not only in the center with the Old Town inside, also those old communist block estates were designed for living only, not for parking. Communist architects hadn`t predicted that one day, under communist rule, people would be car owners on a mass scale.

I park in wrong places and know that on most occasions I won`t be informed on. I also don`t call the police on others though sometimes it is difficult to fit the pram between the car and the hedge or wall.

That is why I was so enraged when I got the ticket for parking in front of the Opera House this year. The municipal police told me they had been called by the opera security (cameras!).

What!??! Those opera bithches dared to inform on me!!!?? F..k! They can forget about seeing me in their lousy Opera! Never in my life will I sponsor moles and agents!!!!!

All in all, I prefer to live in law-ignorant Poland where people are friendly to each other, than in US where you must be always on guard against informers who report on you. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[jeanne]

Oct 18, 2009 7:56:57 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

That is why I was so enraged when I got the ticket for parking in front of the Opera House this year. The municipal police told me they had been called by the opera security (cameras!).

What!??! Those opera bithches dared to inform on me!!!?? F..k! They can forget about seeing me in their lousy Opera! Never in my life will I sponsor moles and agents!!!!!

All in all, I prefer to live in law-ignorant Poland where people are friendly to each other, than in US where you must be always on guard against informers who report on you. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Beware, though...western culture is creeping its way eastward...and you are directly in its path!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Bonobo]

Cheating rife, standards plunge in Poland's universities
thenews.pl
19.10.2009

Cheating at university in Poland is "not unusual" and many students say that they would be buy a masters thesis.

According to a survey by the PSB DGA pollsters, 54 per cent of students reveal that, in their group, cheating is not unusual, while 39 per cent of students claim that tutors do not mind cheating at exams.

Students do not refrain from buying a Master's thesis, either. Although 80 per cent of students assure that they would never ask someone to write a dissertation for them, 11 per cent would buy a thesis for over 500 zloty (119 euro) and 9 per cent for less than that.

Despite the generally held view that Polish universities have a good image abroad, standards have been falling rapidly as numbers rise but finances to not keep pace.

Lecturers frequently skip lectures due to having a job in more than one place of learning. In one of Poland's higher schools, students were taught by a deceased teacher who had been recorded on a video tape.

Meanwhile, intellectual potential of MA graduates has dramatically gone down because of the influx of universities, mainly private ones. Twenty years ago the number of students did not exceed 400,000, today it is almost 2 million.

However, it seems that neither university staff, nor students notice the inconvenience and the fall of teaching standards. Ninety one percent of university teachers and 84 per cent of students claim that they are satisfied with their performance and the university they work or study at. No one feels anger or shame and just a few students – 19 per cent - are bored (usually at private universities) .

University staff praise themselves for being wise, talented and always prepared for the classes (95 per cent). Students largely support this opinion (87 per cent).

The survey was conducted between 9-16 October among 1194 students and 367 university teachers.

[Bonobo]

Oct 28, 2009 17:34:09 GMT 1 tufta said:

Oct 28, 2009 0:03:21 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Only Poles are able to perform such a stunt. Should I be proud or condemn it on political correctness basis? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Secret teaching in Polish kindergarten preschool classes.

Proud, of course. This is a demonstration of exactly the inner type of freedom we have. This freedom serves as a buffer against foolishness of political class. But at the same type it make impossible such perfect organization of the country as in some of our fellow EU states So maybe, condemn? ;D ;D ;D

Good yoy are back online again! How was the celebration?

Perfect organization is an attractive notion yet nations who once tried to implement it in reality, Russians and Germans, paid a horrible price for it. German perfect organization of Holocaust will haunt this nation for ever.

I think I said it already - I prefer anarchically free Poland without perfectly organized gas chambers or Gulag camp system.

[Bonobo]

In communist times public toilets were awful (contrary to private ones). I will never forget the view of toilets in the camping site in Kołobrzeg at the Baltic coast, the one frequented by foreigners, especially Germans and Swedes, in late 1970s. Grey wooden door with broken locks, walls smeared with shit and dirty graffiti. And queues to them.

Since 1989 the situation has greatly improved. Have you noticed that from time to time I post pictures of public toilets?? It is because I still can`t believe the improvement. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The truth is I always take a photo of the loo in places which I visit. You see only a fraction of what I see.

Botanical Gardens in Krakow

polandsite.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=krakw&action=display&thread=738

Hospital

polandsite.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=krakw&action=display&thread=86&page=1


Poznań Zoo:

polandsite.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cities&action=display&thread=839&page=2


ete etc etc etc

That is why I was a surprised to read this article. I think it is black propaganda.



Scary public loos in Poland need make-over for Euro 2012: survey
(AFP)
10/27/09

WARSAW — Public toilets in Polish railway and bus stations, on trains and in camp grounds need a major make-over for the UEFA Euro 2012 championships Poland will co-host with Ukraine, experts said Tuesday.

"Not every football fan or tourist will get to the stadium, but all will visit our public lavatories and their standard speaks about Poland as a nation," Arkadiusz Choczaj, leader of the so-called "Clean Patrol" campaign, told reporters in Warsaw.

"Clean Patrols", made up of volunteer inspectors dressed in white overalls, recently sniffed around 200 public toilets in six Polish cities slated as Euro 2012 venues or back-ups.

"We hope the impact of our campaign will mean that by next year we won't have to use this tissue to warn the public away from embarrassingly neglected toilets," fellow "Clean Patrol" co-ordinator Andrzej Smolko said, waving a roll of yellow-and-black striped toilet paper embossed with the phrase "Crime Scene - Do Not Cross" in black letters.

Public potties were rated on accessibility, hygiene, smell and whether toilet paper, soap and hand towels were available.

Just one toilet scored a perfect 100 points, while a three-quarters majority rated 65 points, the basic acceptable standard.

Loos in airports, hotels, restaurants and cafes were rated the highest by both the patrols and tourists surveyed by the independent TNS OBOP pollsters. Poland's tourist-magnet southern city of Krakow received the highest ratings.

"Our toilets there are better prepared for these championships than our football players," Choczaj joked of Poland's national side, eliminated from the 2010 World Cup qualifiers in September.

At the bottom of the rankings were a quarter of public restrooms -- in train and bus stations, on trains and in camp grounds -- rated as danger zones by the patrols and foreign tourists alike.

Tourists complained that public toilets were few and far between and nearly 60 percent of those surveyed said existing public facilities needed improvement.

"Regardless of the Euro finals, we have to improve standards because, let's face it, we want to live in a country that doesn't stink," Jan Orgelbrand, head of Poland's Chief Sanitary Inspectorate said.

The "Clean Patrol" project was co-sponsored by CWS-boco, a sanitary products supplier.

[Bonobo]

Polish inconsequence. After they had exchanged the pipes underground, they repaired the side-walk but only its dug-out part, leaving the old surface untouched. The result is pathetic.




Old socialist attitude to work - relaxed and easy going - is still present in Poland. Too often.

[Bonobo]

Dec 13, 2009 23:34:32 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Polish inconsequence. After they had exchanged the pipes underground, they repaired the side-walk but only its dug-out part, leaving the old surface untouched. The result is pathetic.

Another example:

We drove on this road while it was under-repair during summer vacation.


Now the repair has finished, but they left the rut in the middle. They say - no money. Drivers have to wait till spring.

www.tvn24.pl/-1,1633609,0,1,naprawili-droge-po-bokach,wiadomosc.html

[Bonobo]

I am a small businessman, apart from holding a position in a state school. I like being independent.

Poles more entrepreneurial than European neighbours?
05.06.2010 09:05

A new Eurobarometer survey shows that Poles are on average more entrepreneurial than other European nations.
49 percent of Poles would want to run their own business, the survey found, while the average for the European Union currently stands at 45 percent.
In Poland, 43 percent are in favour of working for a company, while that number amounts to 49 percent across Europe.
The latest figures show the reasoning behind Poland bucking the Europe-wide trend, with 71 percent saying that the deciding factor to set up a business is freedom and the opportunity of self-progression.
Other factors taken into account are better wages (32 percent of respondents) and flexible working hours and place of employment (31 percent).
However, those in favour of gainful employment in a company cite regular wages, employment stability and set working hours as the bonuses of working for a company.
European Commission Vice-President Antonio Tajani, Commissioner for Industry and Entrepreneurship, said on the poll’s release that “[…] only an average of 10% is […] self-employed today. If we could raise this percentage, we could have millions of new innovative and creative enterprises which would rejuvenate Europe’s economic basis […].”
The European Commission is concerned that the European average is still low compared to the United States, where 55 percent of citizens would prefer to run a business than work for a company.

[valpomike]

So what is your business? Is it something that we can buy? How long have you been doing this? Do you like it?

Mike

[Bonobo]

Jun 7, 2010 16:15:20 GMT 1 valpomike said:

So what is your business? Is it something that we can buy? How long have you been doing this? Do you like it?
Mike

It is private tutoring of excellent quality. Shortly speaking, I can teach you English. I am intelligent and first of all, extremely patient. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I have been doing it for 19 years.
I like it a lot.

[Bonobo]

Jan 25, 2009 20:23:54 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Unfortunately, one of negative Polish traits is cheating. It is widespread in schools where students traditionally try to cheat during tests and nobody considers it blameworthy.
Polish teachers are accustomed and they take special steps to prevent it. However, foreign teachers who come to Poland to work are shocked.


Explanation is here: elt.britcoun.org.pl/elt/forum/code.htm

It is an admitted fact that people in Poland ‘cheat’ rather frequently and with regard to corruption was 45th out of 102 countries (rank one is the least corrupt) - see Corruption Perception Index for some details of the table. In order to understand this fact the author tried to discover why cheating is often tolerated and accepted.

There is a deeply grounded conviction among Polish people that our problems with honesty and cheating are of historical origin. One source of this behaviour might be seen, as presented by a Polish cultural sociologist Żygulski (1975: 221), in Catholic patterns of upbringing. By suggesting a disregard for all earthly property it has not promoted order in social life nor care for one’s rights, as opposed to the Protestant belief that individual development and care for earthly property is a way of promoting one’s future salvation.
Some Poles also think that it might be the famous right of liberum veto (allowing any member of the 17th century Polish Parliament to break a parliamentary discussion for no stated reason) which promoted bad, undemocratic habits among lawmakers. This unfortunate right was one of the reasons for the Polish partitions which lasted for 123 years. During this period people tried to avoid or break the various rules imposed by Russians, Austrians and Prussians who ruled Poland at that time. The same situation happened during communist times after World War II. The communists created laws for Polish people, who then broke them and in this way opposed the foreign power, the Soviet Union.

It seems that Poland isn`t alone. There are cheaters in the USA too. WOW! Nice company. ;D ;D ;D


FBI employees reportedly cheated on security test

FBI agents and several supervisors cheated on an exam about new rules for terrorism and criminal investigations and for collecting foreign intelligence, according to a U.S. Justice Department report released on Monday.

The report by inspector general Glenn Fine found that some FBI employees improperly consulted with others while taking the exam, and others used or distributed answer sheets or study guides that essentially provided the answers to the test.

A few FBI employees, including several supervisors and a legal adviser, exploited a programing flaw to reveal the answers on their computers, according to the investigation into four FBI offices around the country and several individuals.

The report found significant abuses and cheating involving at least 22 employees.

It marked the latest critical report of the federal law enforcement agency by the inspector general's office, which has questioned in the past whether the FBI has violated civil liberties as part of its terrorism investigations.

On September 20, the inspector general said the FBI improperly launched investigations of U.S. activists after the September 11 attacks, miscast peaceful protests as acts of terrorism and in one case prompted FBI Director Robert Mueller to provide inaccurate testimony to Congress.

Mueller and the FBI reacted to the latest report by saying they were disappointed by the misconduct, acknowledging some responsibility and saying nothing excused the conduct of those who cheated.

"In cases where misconduct has been determined, personnel actions were taken, and that process continues. We will follow-up in each of the 22 cases the (inspector general) has found for disciplinary action, as appropriate, as well as any other allegations of misconduct," Mueller said in a statement.

The exam involved guidelines adopted in December 2008 for domestic FBI investigations and operations, rules that have been criticized by civil liberties groups.

The FBI adopted classroom training on the rules and required that employees pass a computerized 51-question exam.

Employees could use notes and the guidelines, but were barred from consulting with others. The exam's last question required all employees to certify that they did not consult anyone while taking the test.

The report said almost all those who cheated had falsely certified that they had not consulted with anyone else.

The inspector general recommended that the FBI take action against those who cheated, consider other appropriate steps to determine whether others cheated and conduct a new exam.

At least one of the senior supervisors in the Washington, D.C., field office who was alleged to have cheated has left the FBI.

There have been other recent instances of alleged FBI misconduct. Earlier this month, three FBI special agents and one FBI intelligence analyst were charged with lying about their use of performance-enhancing drugs, including steroids and human growth hormones.

[Bonobo]

Young Poles stay in family nests
09.10.2010 14:38
A new report from Eurostat shows that 44 percent of Polish men aged 25-34 are reluctant to move out of their family home.
One in three young Polish women in this age bracket share the same inclinations to stay with their parents.
The figures place Poland’s young generation of adults considerably behind the EU average, which stands at one in three for men and one in five for women.
The quickest to leave family nests are Scandinavians. In Denmark only 1 percent of women up until the age of 34 and 3 percent of men continue to live with their parents. A similar situation can be observed in Sweden and Finland.
The most tardy to move out of family homesteads are young Bulgarians and Slovenians with roughly 60 and 40 percent figures for men and women, respectively.

[Bonobo]

Oops, Poles are considered rude.

Yes, as a Pole, I corroborate this. I myself can be rude if if I don`t like sth. ;D ;D ;D ;D


I feel I’m getting close to the central mystery of the Polish character. I’m probably completely wrong in this belief but it makes me feel better so humour me. I’ve written recently about the strange behaviour of Polish people on pavements and on the road. I’ve written that I’m very confused by the way that Polish people seem to wander around in a daze without any awareness of the people around them and about the way that they drive as if they were the only person on the road. I’m starting to get the feeling that both of these things point to a fundamental feature of the Polish psyche.

Walking down an average Polish street I observe Polish people trying to walk through each other. It’s almost as if they literally cannot see the people around them, or if they can see them they treat them as ghosts of some kind. When people look into your eyes it’s with an expression of suspicion. For a long time I thought it was just me they were looking at this way, that my foreigness was somehow obvious from my appearance, but I don’t believe that any more. Polish people look at other Polish people with just the same latent suspicion they look at me with. Nobody trusts anybody. Everybody expects everybody else to be a bastard. I got a cold feeling down my spine when I finally saw this.

I remember some wise person making a comment on one of my posts somewhere that said something like “all Polish people believe that all other Polish people are idiots, anti-semites, drunks, thieves, or religious maniacs APART FROM the ones they know.” In other words the average Pole wouldn’t trust another Pole as far as he could throw him unless he was part of his extended family or clique of friends. If I meet an Englishman I’ve never met before my default position is positive; I’m expecting him to be a decent honest bloke. When a Pole meets a Pole he’s never met before it seems the default assumption is precisely the opposite. I find that kind of scary.

It explains a lot. People who work in shops are rude because they assume you’re an idiot or a thief. People fail to get out of each other’s way on the pavement because they assume the other person is a rude and uncivilized person and they are damned if they are going to give way to a rude and uncivilized person. People drive as if they were blind because they literally have no respect for the lives or limbs of the inferior people around them.

It can’t be that simple… can it?



Comments:


Sigismundo

I’m currently translating the memoirs of a 90-year-old Pole who was in Britain in 1940. One of his many interesting (to me as an Anglo-Pole) observations was his utter surprise that wartime Brits assumed a priori that everyone was good and decent and could be completely trusted, unless subsequent experience proved otherwise. Poles, on the other hand, assumed the worst of everyone, and distrusted them until proven otherwise.

Little has changed: I still never get so much as a good morning smile from the staff of my local cornershop in Warsaw, even though I’ve lived here for nearly seven years and go there almost daily, a situation completely inconceivable in the UK. Jesus, sometimes I really loathe this city…



scatts

I’m interested to know what a “dump asian” is. Is it a sexual thing?

Only joshing!

The film “Sami Swoj” largely revolves around the topic of Poles not trusting one another and that was made in 1967. The very time when, according to this post, they were all having a love-fest of Polishness. In other words, I don’t think this is by any means a recent phenomenon.

My theory is that Poland has been buggered around so much in the past, giving rise to so many significant opportunities for one Pole to either rip-off, kill, turn-in, or otherwise shaft his fellow Pole, that this mistrust has been slowly developing for centuries.

The UK has always been the UK. Nice and simple. Not really any possibilities for one Brit to be a true Brit and the other a n Austro-Hungarian, German, Jewish, Russian sympathiser. Those deep conflicts, often driven by the simple urge for survival or looking after your family before your country can be very strong forces.



Dorota

Heh,

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, island1. I’m a Polish girl living in the US with an English guy. I’m always amazed at his rose-colored glasses descriptions of people he’s just met. He puts strangers on a pedestal and trusts they’re all wonderful people. I scowl at strangers in suspicion and am always pleasantly surprised when people don’t turn out to be the assholes (sorry, American now) I was sure they would be. Must say, I’ve never thought about it as a cultural trait, so much as a deep-seated neurosis. Love your musings.




Yael

I cite you:

“I’ve written recently about the strange behaviour of Polish people on pavements and on the road. ”

“Walking down an average Polish street I observe Polish people trying to walk through each other. It’s almost as if they literally cannot see the people around them, or if they can see them they treat them as ghosts of some kind.”

—

This is so true – they don’t know how to walk in the street !!! This is irritating me so much. We have a myth in France that says: “the pole is polite and has good manners”… lol so shoked when I saw the reality… We have here some small traveller books (small format, 30 pages) that are supposed to tell us the truth about the country.
No later then 2 days ago, I just had a collision with an old Warsaw guy. Pathetic, he just expected only ME to get out of his path…

Anyway, the worst is the absurd underground passage “centrum” in Aleje Jerozolimskie in Warszawa. I’m going through there every damned day, and this is always the same. This is such a huge mess in so close place !!! It’s like a physics simulator of particles collision !!!

The excuse from my colleagues: “you know, this is Poland” like if, as the article says, fault is always from the others.

hum hum


Pres

I am an American of Polish descent having moved to Europe in the last decade. In the USA Polish are considered backwards idiots as all former East Bloc members are;but, with the Poles, there seems to be something more (they are considered at the bottom of the barrel). No matter what I achieved when my last name was brought up there would always be the “so you are Polish” smurk. I even thought about changing my last name; as all of my American Polish friends have done. When I came to Europe I suddenly came to a reason why the joke about being Polish is so prevalent in so many cultures (from Canada to Mexico to the UK to Europe to America to even parts of South America). Having for the first time met, experienced and lived with Polish born “Poles” I can only say they are “disgusting” in every way. Rude, arrogant, without common sense, void of concern for those around them, totally self-centric/obsessed, greedy, snobby, lazy (mentally) refusing to learn or read about the world around them, and just lacking in EQ and manners, they are shocking. In business, few have ever achieved positions of Fortune 500 leadership and for the previous Good Reasons.
It will take generations for them to change as a people (if ever); until then, be prepared for the continued self-generated negativity that this group of people seems destined to keep perpetuating.

And yes, my last name is “toast.”


Prasz

On the contrary, it is that simple. I went to get my polish visa at the embassy in dublin and the degree of rudeness is quite numbing. Nobody greets you at any of the counters, the woman who took my passport didnt even tell me how long I was supposed to wait, she just took my passport and wnet away. So I waited, and after what seemed like 15 min, I finally got my passport with visa stamped in it.
Woman at my college ( who is a pole) thinks she has right to shout at people in an unbelievable display of rudeness.

Oh, btw I am Indian


RmT

Hi everyone! I’ve found somewhere where there are some people who seem to have found that the Polish seem rude and inconsiderate (that’s my opnion!).
I’ve only recently come accross Polish people – mainly my housemates. I have been very polite, try to make conversation, have put myself out to make them feel welcome, and even try to warn them when they keep leaving the gas heating on permanently – in September!!! – not to do it because the landlord will put the rent up (I have no control over the heating as it’s in their room!). To this I had a bombardment of verbal aggression and abuse, accusations that I was horrible, and that I deserve to be on my own (They know nothing about my life or why I’m single).They treat me as if I don’t exist or matter. They never attempted to make conversation, and only gave me one answer replies when I did anyway. Is this just the way they are? I have been brought up to be respecful and tolerant of other cultures, so why don’t they adopt the same attitude? They wont even meet me half way. They treat me as if I’m nothing. I’m Welsh, speak Welsh, understand the feeling of being ruled and governed by another country – but I don’t hold it against anyone, its happened, and happened a long time ago. Also as I was growing up we had a Chinese student living with us – I learnt and enjoyed a lot! I was hoping they would teach me Polish cooking/recipes and likewise I would teach them to cook Cawl and rarebit.
This is how British people are essentially, and I feel disheartened and dissapointed that this has been my initial experience of Polish people. I hope that this unpleasant experience will not stay with me and that I do meet others who are more sociable and willing to understand and meet half way. Who are more respectful and willing to embrace other cultures and people like us in Britain where we embrace and enjoy and tolerate other cultures.

This is my opinion………and it makes me sad to say it as I have met so many people from all over the world.



kinga

I’m an Australian of Polish descent and have to agree with all the posts so far, because they’re all true. Poles vary, as do Germans or Brits. But if you’re speaking about generalities, then yes, generally Poles are much ruder and more lacking in social graces than, say, an American or Swede. I think Piotr, that it’s hard to see your culture objectively when you’re in it. I’ve had the good fortune of living both in it and outside it. Maybe that’s why I can see the general dispositions of Poles as a people, and unfortunately, yes, they’re pretty ugly to outsiders. As to why? (Takes a deep breath). Multitude of factors – hundreds of years of wars, deprivation, persecution and backstabbing does tend to make it a little difficult to whistle gaily down the street. A history of national literature focused on Poland being seen as the ‘martyr’ country (no one suffers quite like a Pole) also makes it hard to look at the world in a rosy light. The still present general poverty and inferior living conditions (yes, you’re spot on there, guest) would also certainly put a damper in your stride, particularly when you’re bombarded all the time by glossy images of all the things you can’t and probably never will have. There’s also the question of Poland only relatively recently being part of the western economic world, where plastic smiles and meaningless ‘how are you’s’ are branded about feverishly for no good reason at all (oh, hang on, there is the question of making money I suppose – what that has to do with real manners I don’t know, but it certainly gives you the false impression that everyone cares so much more than the grimacing, glowering old Polish till lady who works for a tenth of a comparative western wage and has three kids to support with almost no government assistance). Yes, it’s a wonder Poles are the way they are island1 Finally, I would just like to say (this point has been made earlier on Polandian) that while Poles generally are a dour lot publicly, privately they’re the soul of true hospitality, friendship and politeness. The moment you step over a Pole’s threshold, you’re welcomed not just into their home but into their heart (remember that old Polish line ‘Guest is in the house, God is in the house’). In all my travels I have never come across a culture more willing to bend over backwards for another (provided, of course, you know them personally). The rest of the western world seems to do it the other way round. I don’t know which you’d prefer, but I think I’d take the hand of a true friend over a stranger’s smile any day.




kinga

Just a quick little message for Na Prawda about befriending a difficult Pole.

Poles will not befriend easily – as I pointed out in my earlier post, friendship is a much more serious business to a Pole than it is to, say, an American or Australian, where a friend could be someone you hardly know. Friendship to Poles means responsibility. When a Pole lets you into their hearts, it’s like letting you into their family – with all that this entails (because of this Poles have various names for different stages and types of friendship, ranging from what you’d call an acquaintance in the west, to a bosom buddy).

So, firstly ask yourself, are you ready and willing to be a true friend in return, because that’s what will be expected of you. If not, and it may be that this is what this Pole is sensing, forget it. Why does it matter if they’re prickly – the world is not going to universally find you charming and delectable (sorry, that’s my Polish side shining through) and why should it? Poles are simply not interested in being nice to casual acquaintances (yes, I know this is a huge generalisation).

If you are willing to work at it though (and this is quite difficult to address because I don’t know how well you know this Pole) then a way of endearing yourself to a difficult Pole is a lot cheaper than the second suggestion below, but perhaps more difficult. And so we come to plan A – agree with them.

When getting to know a Pole, it’s not whether you’re right or wrong, it’s whether you like them enough to be willing to overlook differences, because essentially you care about the person, not their irritating foibles or outrageous viewpoints (you might not always agree with, or even like, your brother, but you’ll love him nonetheless – it’s in that sort of area). Honest discussion, like food, hospitality and kindness, is a precious commodity that is shared only with people you respect (at the end of the day I don’t give a shit what my hairdresser thinks of socialism, though it might make for an interesting chat, but I do truly care what my friend thinks because I truly care about them) – as such, it has to be earned.

Incidentally, this is what a lot of people mean when they say Poles argue with no reference to the truth or common sense. It’s because when you’re close to someone, you’re never really arguing about the thing you think you’re arguing about; you know them too well for that. And Poles often tap into this when they talk – the emotion beneath the words, with no regard for how preposterous their statements may actually sound like when uttered (and no, Freud was not Polish). I love arguing this way; it keeps my Australian boyfriend on his toes too.

So if your Polish acquaintance is to be convinced that you’re a person worth caring about, then show them you care first and, how do they put it – humour them

If this doesn’t work, go to plan B – food. Never uderestimate the power of food when it comes to Poles – once again, it’s never really about the food (though that’s a delightful side-effect I grant you). Poles see food and hospitality as an important aspect of social bonding – if you care about someone, you feed them. So, invite them round formally for dinner. Make them feel it’s a special occasion and that you sincerely wish their company. Then go home and cook up the biggest spread you’ve ever cooked up so the table groans with food (even if you’ll have to eat left-overs for a week). To a Pole, the measure of your hospitality equals the measure of your heart. Make sure there is alcohol (unless they’re teetotallers, God forbid). And, this is important, serve them. That’s right, none of the western ‘beer’s in the fridge mate’. Play the host properly so that they don’t have to lift a finger.

Of course, a winning combination, and one which no Pole could possibly deny, would be a combination of the two above mentioned methods. After all, who could resist being fawned over and told they’re incredibly clever and witty whilst being offered profiteroles and glazed ham?


Tomek

Well I live in the United States in Chicago. I am Polish myself and have been here since 5 years.

Everything what you described you can find the same attitude in many people here who are not only Poles or of Polish decent. You will see this attitude like that in many cities. I think you just simply overgeneralize.

You can’t expect people to be just ready to chat and smile at strangers on streets when they rush to work or school. Not everyone is just so simply happy, especially in Poland where many people struggle with living from paycheck to paycheck (well in europe its actually wire transfer to bank) but you know my meaning.

Go out on Friday night to night clubs or bars or college party’s (if you’re at that young age) and you’ll notice people relaxed and ready to socialize with you.

More

[tufta]

I think Tomek is a wise and observant guy

[pjotr]

Jun 5, 2008 19:56:03 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Another important Polish trait I would like to write about is traditional Polish individualism . Poles like doing things on their own, they tend to minimalise the influence of the state on their life, sometimes even reject it, preferring to remain self-reliant and independent.

Individualism is a noble trait but it can also create problems. E.g., cooperation is our weak point. There is a saying: when 3 Poles meet, they have 5 points of view. It means each Pole has his/her own opinion and it is hard to persuade people they should ease up on sticking to them so stubbornly. SO, giving up one`s opinion is hard for a Pole ( but sometimes it does take place in order to combine effort and achieve a mutual goal, especially in times of troubles, like anti-communist Solidarity movement in 1980s).

Where did it all originate from? Norman Davies suggests it was created by the Polish settlement system at the start of the second millenium. Polish settlements were quite far from each other, isolated by forests, independent, self-governing, self-sufficient units which could provide for themselves on their own and didn`t need anybody`s aid. Thus, medieval Poles started doubting and then rejecting the power of the highest authorities like kings and princes because they didn`t need it at all.

It was different in Western Europe where settlements where close to each other which forced the cooperation and close ties between people. On the other hand, settlements in Russia were of such nature and so far from each other they were unable to maintain or defend themselves on their own and thus a typical Russian submission to higher authority was born. The tsar was the almighty ruler who provided for all citizens of the country and their dependance was very deep.

Then Poles have something in common with jews! ;D

"The Jewish community does not exist", says the Jewish theologian René Süss. "When you have two Jews there are three opinions. That is the way it always was. We are a people. But a people with a lot of different views."

[Bonobo]

Dec 11, 2010 0:00:16 GMT 1 pjotr said:

Then Poles have something in common with jews! ;D
"The Jewish community does not exist", says the Jewish theologian René Süss. "When you have two Jews there are three opinions. That is the way it always was. We are a people. But a people with a lot of different views."

I became convinced about it many years ago. We lived together long enough to start sharing national traits.

[pjotr]

Dec 11, 2010 22:09:30 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Dec 11, 2010 0:00:16 GMT 1 pjotr said:

Then Poles have something in common with jews! ;D
"The Jewish community does not exist", says the Jewish theologian René Süss. "When you have two Jews there are three opinions. That is the way it always was. We are a people. But a people with a lot of different views."

I became convinced about it many years ago. We lived together long enough to start sharing national traits.

Also in sense of humor (irony, briliant jokes, selfmockery and putting things into perspective -also the survival humor in both cultures exist-), mentality, family life (in both cultures both individualism, the family and discussion is important. Debate and cosyness in the family and in the community. Social life, school, work and etc.), intellectualism (Jewish and Polish Catholic intellectuals have something in common), sciences, culture and etc. Yes, you lived together for hundreds of years. A lot of Israeli's and American jews have Polish roots (their ancesters were Polish jews).

[Bonobo]

From Polish Forums, on Polish family life:

I am a Polish, no one in my family had been from anywhere else really (eventually now one is ... ) ... and we didn't have such issues. My grandparents were the best of people, and the warmth they shared was legendary. My grandmother was a strong lady of great wisdom, who held her family on the highest priority on the most difficult days for us, and Poland.

My grandfather had a brother who died in the WW2. He wept for him till his last day. That is how much love he had for him, and his father aswell. He loved my grandmother so much, that it is a lesson for our family - its men and women, even today.

My father, my mother ... are two people who I had only the good fortune to see while growing up. Two very balanced and cooperative people, who loved each other regardless of the economy, hardships - and never faltered in our best of days from their simple ways of living.

My cousins (children of my grandfather's brothers and even one from his cousin!), my sisters (and their husbands and children), my parents, the inlaws of my cousins and sisters, my inlaws, my wife ... we still are very very VERY much in contact, and Christmasses are nothing but a packed house always

I am not saying these things to boast or anything. All I am trying to put to you is that your concept of Poland is not necessarily correct about all the families. We still have many warm and traditional families with value and family far far MUCH above ... than any other thing such as income or consumption or luxuries or any other materialistic thing. We could preserve it by a priority basis, and through passing on values from HOME (a very important foundation for any society).

Such families are many (e.g. the family of one of my sister got married to). But unfortunately the bad influence of western lifestyle (which I personally believe comes from television and some hollywood movies) puts a very negative impact.

Again, in weak moments some people falter ... and they attempt to ruin the fabric of a family. Such people need to be quarantined till the time they realize and want to come back! When they wish to join in - the doors are always lovingly open, and we should support them. However, with our values intact. This is how families survive, this is what I have learnt.

Don't let yourself down due to the bad record of some of your ancestors. You can actually start your own family in a very traditional Polish way ... and enjoy the benefits! LOADS of benefits (eventually economically too ... wonderful support!). But, economy can never be the first priority before VALUES AND FAMILY!

[jeanne]

Amen to that!

[Bonobo]

Feb 8, 2011 22:09:34 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Amen to that!

Does it reflect your everlasting hidden desire to be a priest?

[jeanne]

Feb 9, 2011 19:30:53 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Feb 8, 2011 22:09:34 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Amen to that!

Does it reflect your everlasting hidden desire to be a priest?

No, I have no hidden desire to be a priest. It reflects my agreement with the values of loyalty to and love of family on which the article expounds!

[Bonobo]

In Vacation 2010 thread there are a few pics which show our character:

Nobody seems bothered by signs prohibiting walking on a risky path through the forest.






No-parking signs are also ignored


And speed limits too



During minor mishaps, most Poles manage to stay cool, instead of throwing a tantrum like Italians or other southerners.




Most of us are still family-oriented people who retained inclinations to multi-generation bonds.






Poles love dogs - nobody bothers when somebody`s dog takes a bath with people. Yuk!!!




When toilets are unavailable, we do it in the bushes, in hiding, and not in the public eye like the French.
Do not take a pee in the alley

[jeanne]

Mar 13, 2011 9:59:29 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Poles love dogs - nobody bothers when somebody`s dog takes a bath with people. Yuk!!!

How did you end up without the Polish dog-loving gene?

[Bonobo]

Mar 13, 2011 16:54:03 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Mar 13, 2011 9:59:29 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Poles love dogs - nobody bothers when somebody`s dog takes a bath with people. Yuk!!!

How did you end up without the Polish dog-loving gene?

I was infected with the feline gene.

[Bonobo]

Poles aren`t too modest when it comes to self-appraisal.

Guardian Europe poll: which country is best looking, the best drivers and the best at holding their drink?



Some of the key findings are:

• 61% of Poles think they can hold their drink better than other Europeans – compared with just 15% of Britons and 14% of Spaniards
• 87% of Spaniards think they have Europe's best cuisine. 80% of the French make the same claim, but only 23% of Britons
• 34 % of Germans think they are excellent at driving, compared with only 11% of the French
• 13% of French people think their country is Europe's friendliest, the lowest in any of the countries surveyed. In Spain the figure is 66%

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/30/guardian-europe-poll-best-looking-drinking?commentpage=last#end-of-comments


Poles most attractive in Europe, say Poles
31.03.2011 11:06

Poles think they are most attractive in Europe and hold their drink better than other nations, finds a survey conducted by the UK’s Guardian newspaper.

Fifty seven percent of Poles told opinion pollsters ICM that they thought they were the most attractive in Europe, compared to 41 percent of Spaniards. Only one-in-five Brits think they are the continent’s most alluring.

In fact, Poles have quite a high opinion of themselves in general.

Sixty one percent think they can hold their drink better than other Europeans, compared to 15 percent of Brits and 14 percent of Spaniards.

Seventy percent of Poles think they have the best cuisine in Europe, just 10 percent less than the French, who, of course, have a rather high opinion of their own cooking.

The poll was taken from a sample of 5,000 in five different countries – Poland, Spain, France, Germany and UK.

Only 17 percent of Poles think they are the best drivers in Europe, however.