gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on May 8, 2008 17:31:15 GMT 1
I am currently in the process of trying to find out when my ancestors - Frank and Anna Menzel and their daughter Anna - emigrated from Poland/Germany to the U.S. I am also hoping to find out when and where they were born.
So far I have found some U.S. documents (census records, cemetery records, U.S. born children's baptismal records). I have a copy of the Petition for Naturalization for Frank Menzel, but not the Declaration of Intent (which I am hoping will provide more immigration details).
I have some rough estimates for dates:
Frank (possibly Franz or Franciszek) - born around 1843 in Poland or Germany
Anna (mother) - born around 1850 in Poland or Germany
Anna (daughter) - born around 1878 in Poland or Germany
A child was born in the U.S. in November 1883, so the emigration timeframe I am researching is 1875-1883.
The information about the surname Kraiczek is a recent find. That may not be the "correct" spelling. Other possibilities include Krajczek and Kraczek.
I just wanted to put a post in the forum in the event that another member or a guest can offer any additional information on either surname.
gigi
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Aug 7, 2008 5:50:39 GMT 1
Bonobo/Loco, Can you please help me with this? I found some records with Zelow, Lodzkiego, Poland. Zelów = town Bełchatów would be the county Łódzkiego - another name for Łódź/Lódzkie province?? Also, does the surname Szwejdar sound Czech to you? Thanks for any help you can offer!  |
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 7, 2008 9:03:41 GMT 1
Bonobo/Loco, Can you please help me with this? I found some records with Zelow, Lodzkiego, Poland. Zelów = town Bełchatów would be the county Łódzkiego - another name for Łódź/Lódzkie province?? Ys, there is such a town. It is ver yinteresting because for about 100 years it was inhabited by Czech colonists who cultivated their culture in it. In the heart of Poland! Incredible... pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zel%C3%B3wZelów [ˈzɛluf] is a town in Bełchatów County, Łódź Voivodeship, Poland, with 8,307 inhabitants (2005).
Czechs are national minority. In nationwide census which was carried in the year 2002 declared Czech nationality 386 citizens of Poland. Representatives of Czechs minority resident in the: łódzkie province - 111, śląskie province - 61, dolnośląskie province - 47, mazowieckie province - 37. Mainly settled this minority there are in the area of the Kłodzka Valley and in Zelów (near Piotrków Trybunalski).
The first groups of Czechs came to Poland starting from the 16th through the 18th century. They were mainly Evangelists who had to flee their country on account of religious persecutions.
In Poland there is no public school where they could learn their mother tongue.When it is spelled Szwejdar, it doesn`t sound Czech too much. But try the original Czech spelling: Švejdar. Yes, it is a Czech surname indeed. Google provided many sites with references to it.... |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Aug 7, 2008 15:09:37 GMT 1
I found some records with Zelow, Lodzkiego, Poland. Zelów = town Bełchatów would be the county Łódzkiego - another name for Łódź/Lódzkie province?? Ys, there is such a town. It is ver yinteresting because for about 100 years it was inhabited by Czech colonists who cultivated their culture in it. In the heart of Poland! Incredible... Thank you for this! You are a gem! I really appreciate this!  I can't link all these pieces together at this point, but I have learned to research any and all possibilities. I found this link to the State Archive in Łódź: www.lodz.ap.gov.pl/e_mflusc.htmlThere are listings for Bełchatów and Bełchów. From what I have found, both are in the province of Łódź, but the regions are different (Piotrków and Łódź respectively). That's interesting, there is a Bełchatówek as well. I think I'm headed towards confustion. Time to find a good map of the area so I can visualize it better...so far I haven't found one with enough detail. |
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 7, 2008 23:17:37 GMT 1
There are listings for Bełchatów and Bełchów. From what I have found, both are in the province of Łódź, but the regions are different (Piotrków and Łódź respectively). That's interesting, there is a Bełchatówek as well. I think I'm headed towards confustion. Time to find a good map of the area so I can visualize it better...so far I haven't found one with enough detail. If you want to find a place in Poland, you can use this site with GPS maps. mapa.szukacz.plZelów is here mapa.szukacz.pl/?x=515535.91&y=400460.31&zoom=3Move the mouse cursor on the pink ring and click on Zbliż - Zoom in, Oddal - Zoom out. Or bit different map mapy.eholiday.pl/mapa-zelow-zelow-belchatow.htmlAccording to maps, Zelów is in the east of Piotrków, in the south of Łódź and in the north-west of Bełchatów. |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Aug 7, 2008 23:46:53 GMT 1
Thanks again! And look what else I found via your link: forum.zelow.pl/I have no idea yet what all is on this forum. I recognized the words 'humor' and 'pizzeria' though ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 8, 2008 1:20:37 GMT 1
Thanks again! And look what else I found via your link: forum.zelow.pl/I have no idea yet what all is on this forum. I recognized the words 'humor' and 'pizzeria' though ;D ;D ;D Wow, it looks like a busy place, the forum there. If you want, I can join it and ask queations on your behalf. Or you can do it yourself, checking Zelowians` knowledge of English. ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:11:33 GMT 1
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Aug 8, 2008 13:14:45 GMT 1
Gigi, I have registered the forum in Zelów and asked a question on your behalf, and now you have to wait for results. Dziękuję Bonobo! I am grateful for your help. |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on Aug 19, 2008 20:50:17 GMT 1
Here was the response in the Zelów forum:
Kraiczek, Krajczek ani Kraczek nie znam, ale znam Kroczek. Mieszka na Złotej.
I think it translates as:
Kraiczek, Krajczek or Kraczek I do not know, but I know Kroczek. Lives on gold(?)
Not exactly sure what the part about "on gold" means. A street name? Anyone have any ideas?
**************************************************************
I did find something else interesting today on both Kraiczek and Szwejdar:
Příjmení českých exulantů - různe tvary (Forms of Czech emigrants's surname)
MUŽSKÝ TVAR (MALE FORM)
Krajíček
Švejdar
ŽENSKÝ TVAR (FEMALE FORM)
Krajíčková
Švejdarová
OSTATNÍ (OTHER FORM)
Krajček, Kraiczek
Szweidar, Szwejdar
So perhaps the reason that I have not found much on the surname Kraiczek is because I should also be researching Krajíček and Krajček?
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Post by Bonobo on Aug 23, 2008 23:29:01 GMT 1
Here was the response in the Zelów forum: Kraiczek, Krajczek ani Kraczek nie znam, ale znam Kroczek. Mieszka na Złotej.I think it translates as: Kraiczek, Krajczek or Kraczek I do not know, but I know Kroczek. Lives on gold(?)Not exactly sure what the part about "on gold" means. A street name? Anyone have any ideas? Yes, it is Gold Street. It is highly probable they are Czech surnames. I have just looked through Krakow directory, there are no Polish surnames like Kraiczek, Krajczek, Kraczek in it at all. |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on Oct 28, 2008 22:33:36 GMT 1
Wyrobnik used to mean a worker. It could be a land or city worker. Parobek had the meaning of a land labourer subservient to a master: either a rich peasant or a nobleman. ogrodnik - gardener pracownik - worker or laborer rolnik - farmer einleger with no second "i" means solicitor.. hmmm Thanks! This is in reference to an adult male listed as an Einlieger in Blazeowitz (which I believe would actually be Błażejowice in Polish, Blaschowitz in German) in 1848. Einlieger seems to be the German term for a peasant farmer or tenant farmer of Silesia. I have another related question, but I'll put it into the specific genealogy thread. My other question is this - does "kraj" mean "country" in Polish? If the ending -cyzk means "little" or "son of", wouldn't it follow that the surname Krajczyk could mean something along the lines of "son of the country" or perhaps even "son of the land"? I keep seeing the spellings Krajczyk, Krajczek, and Kraiczek. I found references to a few of these variants in the area of Błażejowice / Wiśnicz today. Many are listed as einliegers. I wonder if those surnames somehow evolved from their occupation? |
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Post by locopolaco on Oct 28, 2008 22:43:44 GMT 1
Thanks! This is in reference to an adult male listed as an Einlieger in Blazeowitz (which I believe would actually be Błażejowice in Polish, Blaschowitz in German) in 1848. Einlieger seems to be the German term for a peasant farmer or tenant farmer of Silesia. I have another related question, but I'll put it into the specific genealogy thread. My other question is this - does "kraj" mean "country" in Polish? If the ending -cyzk means "little" or "son of", wouldn't it follow that the surname Krajczyk could mean something along the lines of "son of the country" or perhaps even "son of the land"? I keep seeing the spellings Krajczyk, Krajczek, and Kraiczek. I found references to a few of these variants in the area of Błażejowice / Wiśnicz today. Many are listed as einliegers. I wonder if those surnames somehow evolved from their occupation? yes, 'kraj' = country -czyk means of... something.. of the country. i am guessing einlieger is peasant then. wiesniak in PL. village person. as to the background of these names, some are definitely from the occupation of their forefathers, some are becasue of th eplace they are from.. there may be a town called Kraj or kraina somewhere in the area your peeps are from. some of the names are also derived from, like you said, son of.. or something to that effect. and then there are names with no real way to find out their origin as some are just like here.. adopted and changed from other languages, cultures and the like. |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on Oct 29, 2008 0:59:43 GMT 1
yes, 'kraj' = country -czyk means of... something.. of the country. i am guessing einlieger is peasant then. wiesniak in PL. village person. as to the background of these names, some are definitely from the occupation of their forefathers, some are becasue of th eplace they are from.. there may be a town called Kraj or kraina somewhere in the area your peeps are from. some of the names are also derived from, like you said, son of.. or something to that effect. Interesting! Thanks for the info, Loco! It is very possible that the spelling 'Kraiczek' was not the original spelling. The surname was a fantastic surprise found on a church baptismal record. I have little to go on, but it is a lot more than I had a few months ago. I am including all possible spelling variants in my research. Can you please tell me if I am correct on the following: "czek" would be more of a Czech spelling, pronounced "check" "czyk" would be more of a Polish spelling, pronounced "chick" They seem close enough that if spoken - especially with an accent - that someone recording the surname could easily misspell it. One record had the spelling 'Krajezyk', the other three had 'Kraiczek'. |
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Post by locopolaco on Oct 29, 2008 4:49:27 GMT 1
yes, 'kraj' = country -czyk means of... something.. of the country. i am guessing einlieger is peasant then. wiesniak in PL. village person. as to the background of these names, some are definitely from the occupation of their forefathers, some are becasue of th eplace they are from.. there may be a town called Kraj or kraina somewhere in the area your peeps are from. some of the names are also derived from, like you said, son of.. or something to that effect. Interesting! Thanks for the info, Loco! It is very possible that the spelling 'Kraiczek' was not the original spelling. The surname was a fantastic surprise found on a church baptismal record. I have little to go on, but it is a lot more than I had a few months ago. I am including all possible spelling variants in my research. Can you please tell me if I am correct on the following: "czek" would be more of a Czech spelling, pronounced "check" "czyk" would be more of a Polish spelling, pronounced "chick" They seem close enough that if spoken - especially with an accent - that someone recording the surname could easily misspell it. One record had the spelling 'Krajezyk', the other three had 'Kraiczek'. i think in czech it would be more like '-cek' or a variant with the squiggly thing above the 'c'. to me, both of your versions can be all polish. the other name could also me 'Krajczek/yk'.. additionally the 'z' in the lone spelling could be the 'ż' or the 'ź'. your roots seem to be from where? eastern PL? |
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Post by locopolaco on Oct 29, 2008 5:32:41 GMT 1
oh i missed the first page. i think the czech influence is highly possible but "kraj" is a very wide slavic root word. it's used highly in the balkans too. not sure about slovakia.
Menzel is definitely a germanic name but it could also be jewish, but it sounds like everyone is catholic though. Lodz is kind of in the center where a lot of the outside influences mixed quite a bit. germans and russians and all the other.. it's kind of in the center of the baltic plains.
my roots reach there too. i am pretty sure my mom's peeps are from Piotrków (-Trybunalski?) or near there.
szwejdar- czech? most hits i got via gugle were czech. lol also svejdar etc..
also, the dates you have for birth.. all your people were born in POLAND but under occupation. i think it was german at that time but the russians were in the vicinity sometime around then too. i can't remember which direction Piotrków is from Lodz. S, SW?
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Oct 29, 2008 14:12:54 GMT 1
i think in czech it would be more like '-cek' or a variant with the squiggly thing above the 'c'. to me, both of your versions can be all polish. the other name could also me 'Krajczek/yk'.. additionally the 'z' in the lone spelling could be the 'ż' or the 'ź'. your roots seem to be from where? eastern PL? Alas, there is the mystery... My great-great grandparents (Menzel/Kraiczek) were both born in Poland, but I do not have any area info. My great-grandmother was listed as being born in Germany around 1878, though we do not know if she was actually born in Germany or in German-occupied Poland. oh i missed the first page. i think the czech influence is highly possible but "kraj" is a very wide slavic root word. it's used highly in the balkans too. not sure about slovakia. I think "kraj" means land, country, or something similar in several Slavic languages. I found this on wiki this morning: Some modern Ukrainian scholars such as H.P.Pivtorak believe that the name is derived from ukraina in the sense of ‘region, principality, country’ (an alternative etymology would be to derive this meaning from the previously mentioned one by generalization). As seen above in the History section, many medieval occurrences of the word can be interpreted as having that meaning. In this sense, the word can be associated with contemporary Ukrainian krajina, Belarusian kraina and Russian and Polish kraj, all meaning ‘country’.
Pivtorak starts from the meaning of kraj as "land parcel, territory" as attested in many Slavic languages and states that it acquired from early on the meaning "a tribe's territory"; *ukraj and *ukrajina would then mean "a separated land parcel, a separate part of a tribe's territory". Later, as the Kievan Rus disintegrated in the 12th century, its "ukrainas" would become independent principalities, hence the new (and earliest actually attested) meaning of "ukraina" as principality. Still later, lands that became part of Lithuania (Chernigov and Seversk Principalities , Kiev Principality, Pereyaslav Principality and the most part of the Volyn Principality) were sometimes called "Lithuanian ukraina", while lands that became part of Poland (Halych Principality and part of the Volyn Principality) were called "Polish Ukrayina".
In addition, some[who?] have derived the same meaning "region, principality, country" from another meaning of the word *kraj-, namely ‘to cut’ (as in Church Slavonic кроити, краяти), i.e. ‘the land someone carved out for themselves’. I have seen several Jewish records for Menzel, Mencel, and Mencil (plus some with -wicz or -witz endings). But I have ruled them out since all of the church records are from local Catholic churches, and my gggrandfather is buried in a Catholic cemetery. Interesting...are you doing genealogy research too? I'm still not sure if this is part of my family's line. I reviewed the film for the area, but it didn't have any info for either surname.  I have been using this map: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pollodz/My gggrandparents were born around the 1840s/early 1850's timeframe. My ggrandmother was born in the mid to late 1870's, immigration timeframe sometime after her birth and before November 1883 (recorded sibling birth in MN). |
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Post by locopolaco on Oct 29, 2008 16:05:28 GMT 1
i think in czech it would be more like '-cek' or a variant with the squiggly thing above the 'c'. to me, both of your versions can be all polish. the other name could also me 'Krajczek/yk'.. additionally the 'z' in the lone spelling could be the 'ż' or the 'ź'. your roots seem to be from where? eastern PL? Alas, there is the mystery... My great-great grandparents (Menzel/Kraiczek) were both born in Poland, but I do not have any area info. My great-grandmother was listed as being born in Germany around 1878, though we do not know if she was actually born in Germany or in German-occupied Poland. I think "kraj" means land, country, or something similar in several Slavic languages. I found this on wiki this morning: Some modern Ukrainian scholars such as H.P.Pivtorak believe that the name is derived from ukraina in the sense of ‘region, principality, country’ (an alternative etymology would be to derive this meaning from the previously mentioned one by generalization). As seen above in the History section, many medieval occurrences of the word can be interpreted as having that meaning. In this sense, the word can be associated with contemporary Ukrainian krajina, Belarusian kraina and Russian and Polish kraj, all meaning ‘country’.
Pivtorak starts from the meaning of kraj as "land parcel, territory" as attested in many Slavic languages and states that it acquired from early on the meaning "a tribe's territory"; *ukraj and *ukrajina would then mean "a separated land parcel, a separate part of a tribe's territory". Later, as the Kievan Rus disintegrated in the 12th century, its "ukrainas" would become independent principalities, hence the new (and earliest actually attested) meaning of "ukraina" as principality. Still later, lands that became part of Lithuania (Chernigov and Seversk Principalities , Kiev Principality, Pereyaslav Principality and the most part of the Volyn Principality) were sometimes called "Lithuanian ukraina", while lands that became part of Poland (Halych Principality and part of the Volyn Principality) were called "Polish Ukrayina".
In addition, some[who?] have derived the same meaning "region, principality, country" from another meaning of the word *kraj-, namely ‘to cut’ (as in Church Slavonic кроити, краяти), i.e. ‘the land someone carved out for themselves’. I have seen several Jewish records for Menzel, Mencel, and Mencil (plus some with -wicz or -witz endings). But I have ruled them out since all of the church records are from local Catholic churches, and my gggrandfather is buried in a Catholic cemetery. Interesting...are you doing genealogy research too? I'm still not sure if this is part of my family's line. I reviewed the film for the area, but it didn't have any info for either surname. I have been using this map: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pollodz/My gggrandparents were born around the 1840s/early 1850's timeframe. My ggrandmother was born in the mid to late 1870's, immigration timeframe sometime after her birth and before November 1883 (recorded sibling birth in MN). no i am not doing research but that's where my mom's from. i was born in Lodz. looking at that map, Piotrkow is definitely closer to where the russians were but Lodz has always had a pretty heavy german and jewish influences. it has always been a textile centre. i checked out your link further and it sure seems like i may have some blood in MI. lol possibly gramp's siblings or even his parent's siblings came over here. |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Oct 30, 2008 15:23:18 GMT 1
i checked out your link further and it sure seems like i may have some blood in MI. lol possibly gramp's siblings or even his parent's siblings came over here. Loco, I'm going to post a link for you in the general genealogy thread. You might find it interesting. |
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Post by Wiacek on Apr 25, 2014 20:19:07 GMT 1
Thanks! This is in reference to an adult male listed as an Einlieger in Blazeowitz (which I believe would actually be Błażejowice in Polish, Blaschowitz in German) in 1848. Einlieger seems to be the German term for a peasant farmer or tenant farmer of Silesia. I have another related question, but I'll put it into the specific genealogy thread. My other question is this - does "kraj" mean "country" in Polish? If the ending -cyzk means "little" or "son of", wouldn't it follow that the surname Krajczyk could mean something along the lines of "son of the country" or perhaps even "son of the land"? I keep seeing the spellings Krajczyk, Krajczek, and Kraiczek. I found references to a few of these variants in the area of Błażejowice / Wiśnicz today. Many are listed as einliegers. I wonder if those surnames somehow evolved from their occupation? |
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Post by stephaniek on Mar 8, 2020 23:38:12 GMT 1
Hello, I was adopted and my birth mothers name is Helga Sigrid Kraiczek. I have not found much information on this surname, so I was excited to see someone else researching the name. I see that it was awhile since you were last on here. Hoping to research and help each other.
Stephanie
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