Dutch and Polish music

[pjotr]

Tufta and Bonobo,

We earlier had a fairly good exchange about Polish culture, music and art. I really appreciate that. I like the exchange and the things I learn from it.

Later in my short life of 43 years I also got something like more interest in my own countries past. Ofcourse we got our highschool education and I made a start with my art history study in Amsterdam before I switched to art education. But except the basis or fundament I did not know a lot of details or the chronology of Dutch art history, like I didn't know the Polish one. Both countries histories merge with the larger European history.

Last years I found out that there were quite a few international known Dutch bands that gained succes due to the musical performance they gave with their music. I am from 1970 and I always liked the good music of the sixtees, seventees and some of the eightees. There were good bands in the ninetees and early this century, but not as many as those marvelous years of the sixtees and seventees, which were important for Pop music, rock music, rock 'n roll and new forms of electronic music.

We discussed New Wave music, Punk music and maybe some Polish folk music, rock 'n roll, pop music and such, but I wonder if in the Polish Peoples Republic there were bands and music which had a certain musical level, that crossed borders. (in the East-Block countries, or maybe over the Iron Curtain) In my life crossing borders is important, because I am of international stock, with a global family. (NL, PL, USA, SA) That is why I am attracted to the Pop culture and rock music of our generation, because it crossed borders, and the more musical parts of them had poetic, lyrical and thus literairy (Proze) meaning.

Did you had Polish versions of these (famous Dutch bands), in the sense of typical Polish Blues, Rythm 'n Blues, Beat, Rock 'n Roll, Folk and sixtees/seventees rockbands?:







The Outsiders were a Dutch band from Amsterdam. Their period of greatest popularity in the Netherlands was from 1965-67, but they released records until 1969.


60's band from The Hague, Holland, Netherlands



This was a very good Dutch Blues band

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuby_%2B_Blizzards









You as an old Polish hippy must love this song.






These old Blues, Rythm 'n Blues, Rock 'n Roll, Beat music, Folk and Singer Songwriter music interests me more now than the Punk, Hard rock and electronic music of my youth. I like the musical quality of this music. It has deeper roots, connection with the British and American music of the fourtees, fiftees and sixtees. It is an European interpretation of that.

Was there a vibrant Polish Beat music, Blues, Folk and rock 'n roll, central-European stile (continental shaped music) scene in Poland?

P.S.- Poland was and is larger than the Netherlands. I know and knew about the Great Polish Jazz tradition, the Polish classical music, and via the Polish Culture Forums I learned about Polish pop music too.

[pjotr]

Sixties



Polish popular music in the 60's was relatively tame compared to its Western contemporaries, mostly because the Communist government was rather skeptical about rock'n'roll and tried to limit its cultural influence on the young generation. In fact, to avoid trouble from association, a new term was coined - "big beat" and its Polish language equivalent, "mocne uderzenie". The big beat performers were mostly imitating British stars of the time, sometimes adding elements of Polish folk music. The first popularizator of rock'n'roll, or big beat, in Poland was Franciszek Walicki, who was the creative force behind the first Polish rock'n'roll bands: Rhythm And Blues and later Czerwono-Czarni, which started in 1960 and quickly became immensely popular across the country.

Among the more notable big beat acts were Niebiesko-Czarni (who later created the first Polish rock opera, "Naga"), the more folk-tinged Skaldowie and No To Co, the Animals-inspired Polanie, and last but not least, Czerwone Gitary (Red Guitars). This band, clearly borrowing its sound and image from early Beatles, surpassed all the others in popularity; its leaders, Seweryn Krajewski and Krzysztof Klenczon, would later have successful careers of their own.

The decade marked the beginning of the career of singer, guitarist and songwriter Tadeusz Nalepa, the father of Polish blues rock. Already in his first important band, Blackout (formed in 1965), he wrote songs with help of lyricist and poet Bogdan Loebl, marking sort of a beginning of Polish singer-songwriter tradition. Their cooperation was continued in Nalepa's next and most famous band, Breakout, whose first album "Na drugim brzegu tęczy" (released 1969) sent shock waves through the country - the first truly modern Polish rock album, in the vein of Cream and Jimi Hendrix, but with added folk flavour. Breakout would release seminal blues rock records in the 70's.


Filipinki: Nie Ma Go (Muza, 1968)

The 60's also brought Poland one of its most original artists, Czesław Niemen. He started out performing Latin and big beat songs, but soon transformed into a superstar when his protest song 'Dziwny jest ten świat' (Strange Is This World) was applauded to no end at 1967 Opole festival. The key to his success was not only an extraordinary voice and image, but also very expressive, soul-influenced repertoire and poetic lyrics. He was not satisfied with that, though; he would move on to much greater things in the 70's. Following in Niemen's footsteps was Stan Borys, formerly lead vocalist of Blackout, with a taste for expressive, sometimes dramatic soul music.

One of the most critically acclaimed artists, although totally removed from mainstream entertainment, was Ewa Demarczyk. She sang mostly lyrics written by classical poets, with rather non-commercial arrangements, in a manner closer to drama than pop. Nevertheless, her interpretations continue to be recognized as masterpieces, also in the rock-related circles.


Ewa Demarczyk

At the end of the decade, big beat finally gave way to more evolved rock genres, which would dominate the Polish scene in the following years.

Some significant albums of this decade (excluding compilations):

Breakout - Na drugim brzegu tęczy (1969)
Czerwono-Czarni - Czerwono-Czarni (1966)
Czerwone Gitary - To właśnie my (1966), Czerwone Gitary 3 (1968)
Czesław Niemen - Dziwny jest ten świat (1967)
Ewa Demarczyk - Ewa Demarczyk śpiewa piosenki Zygmunta Koniecznego (1967)
Niebiesko-Czarni - Mamy dla was kwiaty (1968)
Polanie - Polanie (1968)
Skaldowie - Cała jesteś w skowronkach (1969)
Stan Borys i Bizony - To ziemia (1969)

(thanks to Alex Prządka for extending this chapter and adding the album list)

www.europopmusic.eu/Poland_pages/Poland_sixties.html
easternblocsongs.wordpress.com/category/poland/

My reply: is that all there is my friends?

[tufta]

Great thread you open, Pieter - and I liked your personal-linked introduction, too.
You are right - I liked the 'Earth and Fire", though I didn't know it earlier. What really 'opens a memory', brings the old days back in my mind and emotions, when I think "Dutch music" , are those absolutely great guys:



The Motions and Outsiders you've posted are very fine and could as well be very popular in Poland - as was Golden Earring. Yet they bear this 'sign' which was assigned to Dutch music by Polish musical journalists and I guess fans, too. They are hardly recognizable from the music from the other side of La Manche


Please understand me correctly, this is not a 'reproach' on the opposite, almost everybody tried to make it the British way, as they have found this fine mix of new 'electric' sound with old blues, jazz, popualr music from before the rock-era, and had the advantage of widely spoken English, their native tongue. On the other hand extreme popularity in Poland of the bands such as Skaldowie, Czerwone Gitary, Krzysztof Klenczon, No to Co, was conected with their taking something from the local music tradition and putting that into new form


or a 50 second pearl where in a guitar riff beats a distant echo of the music of Polish village


This was indeed very tame compared to already 'wild' music in the free world, the music we craved for and loved, though from today's perspective, sometimes simply due to the rule of the grass greener on the other of the fence (pun intended) in operation. And then came an outburst, a super-nova of 'first Solidarity' perdiod in 1980 and Polish music blossomed, no more taming and too often too much aping But that is another story. Back to 60ties-70ties and your question 'is that all there is my friends?' Of course not Here is something - I find thatDutch Outsiders and this piece resemble each other. No wonder

[pjotr]

Nederbeat

Nederbeat (also: Nederbiet) is the Dutch pop music influenced by the early 1960s Beat groups led by The Beatles.



Also the emergence of pirate station Radio Veronica stimulated the Dutch music community to produce truckloads of 'Nederbeat'. The Hague was the country's beat capital, along with neighbouring coastal town Scheveningen. The clubs on its boulevard, from where Veronica's pirate ship was constantly visible, proved instrumental as a breeding place for Dutch talent.



Popular groups were The Outsiders, Q65, The Golden Earrings (the predecessor of Golden Earring), The Motions (with Robbie van Leeuwen who would later form The Shocking Blue), Ro-d-ys, Bumble Bees, The Shoes, Les Baroques, The Hunters (Jan Akkerman's first band), Ekseption, Sandy Coast and Cuby & the Blizzards.

[tufta]

Jan Akerman and Focus! I forgot Focus!
Golden Earring and Focus - those were the times

Don't be disappointed - we were behind the Iron Curtian, no-one - apart from music journalists I guess - had any idea about Nederbeat. English -singing groups were treated as... English or American, the differentiation came later, with time and growing-up.

[pjotr]

The Hunters was a Nederbeat group that emerged from the Amsterdam Johnny and his Cellar Rockers. The first formation was Jan Akkerman (guitar), Sidney Wachtel (drums), Wilfred Arends until 1966, then Ron Bijtelaar (bass) and Paul Hubert (rhythm guitar). The group initially devoted itself to the release of covers like If You Were On My Mind (an American hit of the We Five) and Mr.. Tambourine Man by The Byrds.

The biggest hit of the band was Russian spy and I, a composition of Jan Akkerman and producer Casper Koelman, however listed on many records and CDs as Jackie Javellin. The single appeared in early 1966 and reached number 10 in the Dutch Top 40. The song was especially notable for the virtuoso guitar playing of Akkerman, which seems inspired by the flamenco and the balalaika. The successor Janosh was much less successful and barely reached the Top 40.



With the rapidly changing musical preferences of the 60s the band tried to adabt tot that and released singles like I'm the king and Appear Strange things out. However, it was "not happening" for The Hunters and at the end of 1967 the band decided to stop. Jan Akkerman signed a solo contract Bovema and took (with Bijtelaar and Wachtel as counselors) in an instrumental lp titled Talent for sale. Akkerman founded the band Brainbox in 1968. Ron Bijtelaar appeared again on stage in the 21st century in De Maskers (the Masks).




(You clearly heat the influence of Jimmy Hendrix in this song in my opinion, and in the same time the singing technique of Janis Joplin)




This music is nearly funny.

And here three Dutch troubadours/singers of the sixtees:


A sort of 68 protest song about not adapting the conservative norms of that time, about wearing long hair (which rebellious in that time), this was a Dutch Hippie singer.

Am I not worthy

Herman George Loenhout (Eindhoven, April 10, 1946), better known as Armand, the Dutch protest singer known as the "Dutch Bob Dylan" called. His hit "Am I not worthy" is a classic in the Dutch speaking world. Armand is part of the hippie generation and is known as a fervent lover of cannabis.

Am I not worthy

Do you wan't to stay, okay
It did not make sense
If only you do not see me as the boy with roses
Because then the whole dream world will collapse
You were, as we called it 'the materialistic type'
But you not have not much of that left in you
You have become just as idealistic as I
But how the hell do you want it different than
Am I not worthy
Am I not worthy because your parents have more money than mine
Am I not worthy
Am I not worthy because your dad drives in a larger car than mine
And yet you want to stay your dad but who do not want that
I think you'd better go
And you hurt also your mother a lot
And when you come home, she will say "what are you doing to me '
I had to listen to your mother's stupid bullshiting
About the study of your brother
And your dad who was such a successful businessman
In other words, "what kind of peasent are you'
Am I not worthy
Am I not worthy because your parents have more money than mine
Am I not worthy
Am I not worthy because your dad drives in a larger car than mine
But watch out
You're not used to eating from the street
If you consider the physical being not so very important
Because that is not the most important thing in life
And if you can bare it, please come again
And if not you can sod off
Because it really is not that I have nothing to give you
But if you push your head in a noose
I am therefore not worthy enough
Am I not worthy because your parents have more money than mine
Am I not worthy
Am I not worthy because your dad drives in a larger car than mine
I am therefore more than

P.S.- You see I am not able to translate a Dutch lyric in English, nor in German, Polish or French. Dutch is a difficult language.

The main protestsong singer was Boudewijn de Groot, with his Anti-Vietnam protestsong Mister President.


"Welterusten, meneer de president" (Sleep well, Mr. President) is a Dylanesque song from 1966, sung by Boudewijn de Groot. Like most of his other songs, this one was written with songwriter Lennaert Nijgh. The music was composed by Boudewijn de Groot himself. The song is a protest against the war in Vietnam and the president of the US by the time, Lyndon B. Johnson and made De Groot a name as a protest singer.
The song consists of six parts and is drenched in sarcasm. (P.S.- I don't approve of the message of Mr. Bush war criminal, because I have no judgement about the Iraq war. If it was just or not? It was clearly different from Vietnam, because I think that internal violence between Iraqi's and foreign Islamist fighters that came to Iraq costed more lives than the American lead invasion. I posted this video, despite that message and images, because it contained the translation, not because I agree with the political views of the Dutch fellow who posted it on the internet. It is very difficult to find good translation of Dutch lyrics. My poor translation of Armands song "Am I not worthy" proves that. Dutch is a very difficult language to translate, and therefor it is nice that there are a few nice Dutch songs, which stand on their own like "Sleep well, Mr. President". Dutch is not my favorite musical language for songs, but it is a fact that it is my language, so I am connected to Dutch language music too.)

Meester Prikkebeen was a real Dutch Hippiesong for the Dutch Hippie generation of the late sixtees.

De Groot and his lyricist, Lennaert Nijgh became influenced by the Flower Power movement during that time and created the album Picknick. The songs sounded a lot like a mix of George Harrison's work on The Beatles albums and their own work. The album was well received, and the single "Picknick" was a hit. The duet "Meester Prikkebeen" (together with the Dutch singer Elly Zuiderveld-Nieman (Hilversum, 7 april 1946)) entered the charts two months later. ( Elly Zuiderveld-Nieman later became knows for the christian songs she sang together with her husband, and their children songs: ellyenrikkert.nl/nieuws/ She was also a TV presenter.)

This is a good English language wikilink about Boudewijn de Groot's life and work.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudewijn_de_Groot

Live:

Ramses Shaffy and Liesbeth List


Ramses Shaffy (29 August 1933 – 1 December 2009) was a Dutch singer and actor. He became popular during the 1960s. His most famous songs include Zing, vecht, huil, bid, lach, werk en bewonder ("Sing, fight, cry, pray, laugh, work and admire"), We zullen doorgaan ("We will go on"), Pastorale, Sammy and Laat me ("Leave me be"). He frequently collaborated with Dutch chansonnière Liesbeth List.

Shaffy was born in Paris, in the suburb Neuilly-sur-Seine. His father was an Egyptian diplomat and his mother was a Polish-Russian countess. He grew up with his mother in Cannes. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramses_Shaffy )

It is silent in Amsterdam

(A very melancholic song of Shaffy, about the anonymous city, lonliness, and acceptance of that 'la Condition humaine'.)

A song about a party in a house in the city that ends 5 'o clock in the morning and she leaves without him and leaves him behind. Alone.

(A melancholic song too)

[pjotr]

Feb 22, 2013 11:28:32 GMT 1 tufta said:

Great thread you open, Pieter - and I liked your personal-linked introduction, too.
You are right - I liked the 'Earth and Fire", though I didn't know it earlier. What really 'opens a memory', brings the old days back in my mind and emotions, when I think "Dutch music" , are those absolutely great guys:

The Golden Earing are heroes of my youth. I liked some of their songs very much as a boy. Especially "When the lady smiles", but also the worldfamous "Radar love", their only hit in the USA.


(The redhead Angel in the videoclip -kissing scene- looks like a former girlfriend of mine. My taste is that I am fond of redheads. I like them!)

Feb 22, 2013 11:28:32 GMT 1 tufta said:

The Motions and Outsiders you've posted are very fine and could as well be very popular in Poland - as was Golden Earring. Yet they bear this 'sign' which was assigned to Dutch music by Polish musical journalists and I guess fans, too. They are hardly recognizable from the music from the other side of La Manche

That is very true Tufta, the Dutch music was very much influenced by both the British Beatmusic of the sixtees of the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and the rock 'n roll bands The Shadows, The Animals, The Kinks and The Yardbirds.










Mini-skirted mods, swinging London go-go scenes. Cool 1960s fashions. The Yardbirds with Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page.
Michelangelo Antonioni Masterpiece !

Beat music is a pop and rock music genre that developed in the United Kingdom in the early 1960s. Beat music is a fusion of rock and roll, doo-wop, skiffle and R&B. The beat movement provided most of the bands responsible for the British invasion of the American pop charts in the period after 1964, and provided the model for many important developments in pop and rock music, including the format of the rock group around lead, rhythm and bass guitars with drums.

I think that you are correct that the Dutch bands were very influenced by the British Beat bands and the American pop music of the fiftees and sixtees. American Rock 'n roll entered Europe and the Netherlands via Jimmy Preston, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Bill Haley and his Comets and Little Richard in the fiftees.

So you had a swing jazz/Bebop and rock 'n roll tradition and musical scene before the Nederbeat came. The Nederbeat was directly influenced by the British bands that were there before them, but they made their slightly different Dutch version of it, which was in the same time influence by American Blues, Folk, Rock 'n roll, sixtees rock and other musical influences (I think). And don't count out the French and other European influences of that time, like Spanish Flamenco and the various peoples music of the different countries. Music always has regional branches, but is always international. Musicians all over the world are influenced by foreign musicans that visit their country to play there, by the foreign music they hear over the radio and by the records (LP's) they bought.
My mother told me that she listened to Radio Luxemburg of that time, which played the modern music of the sixtees of that time. In that way my mother heared the Beatles and other beatbands in Warsaw via Radio Luxemburg. More Poles must have listened to that station. In the same time Poles must have heard music from musicians of other so called Socialist countries. Was it you Tufta, who told me about the close ties between Polish musicians and Yugoslavian musicians and bands and that Serb, Croatian, Slovenian, Bosnian, Montengronian and Macedonian music was popular in Poland. Anyway, Poles were connected to Serbs and Croats, they had a Slavic bond, because my mother felt at home in Yugoslavia (Serbia, Belgrade) back then. The Serbs were hospitable to the Poles, and they had good modern music. Poles for some reason were allowed to travel to Yugoslavia, despite the fact that 'Titoism' was considered as bad as "Trotskyism" in the Sovjet dominated Socialist states of the Comecon and the Warsaw Pact. You must have had Czech jazz musicians, Blues bands and Folk bands that visited Poland too and Russian singers and bands. I don't know about East-Germans, because there you had musicians like Karl Wolf Biermann (born 15 November 1936) ( pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Biermann )











There was a Dutch band that was inspired by this American Rock 'n roll. The band was called The Tielman Brothers. They were an Indo-European band, like so many The Hague and other Beat bands later in the sixtees. Both native Dutch boys and Indo boys created their bands. And there was rivalry between the colored Indo boys and the white Dutch guys, because the Indo boys were attractive to the girls and they played good. Both folks played good.

Feb 22, 2013 11:28:32 GMT 1 tufta said:

Please understand me correctly, this is not a 'reproach' on the opposite, almost everybody tried to make it the British way, as they have found this fine mix of new 'electric' sound with old blues, jazz, popualr music from before the rock-era, and had the advantage of widely spoken English, their native tongue. On the other hand extreme popularity in Poland of the bands such as Skaldowie, Czerwone Gitary, Krzysztof Klenczon, No to Co, was conected with their taking something from the local music tradition and putting that into new form.

Tufta, I totally understand you. My words above here show I do. We agree that the Dutch Nederbeat music of that time wouldn't have existed without the input and thus example and influence of Britsh Beatmusic and American Rock 'n roll, Blues and folk. Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, the Doors, Jimmy Hendrix, Jannis Joplin, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Leonard Cohen, Simon & Garfunkel, Joni Mitchell, The Beach Boys, and the R&B and Soul from musicians like James Brown and Otis Redding and the Funk of Sly & the Family Stone.

Exactly, almost everybody tried to make it the British way, mixing or merging (fusion) the new 'electric' sound with old blues, jazz, popualr music from before the rock-era. The popularity in Poland of the bands such as Skaldowie, Czerwone Gitary, Krzysztof Klenczon, No to Co, is comparable with the new popular music trend in the Netherlands that came after Nederbeat and that is called Nederpop. Nederpop is often Dutch language pop music with musically both Dutch local folk influences and the influence of British and American Rock- and Pop music. Everywhere music is in constant development and in constant fase of development and being influenced and being influencial on other music abroad also. Although Poland was a closed country due to the political situation, people from abroad knew that there was good Polish classical music, modern composers music, old school and new jazz, Polish folk music and Polish popular music as well. The authorities could not blok Radio Luxemburg, the BBC world service or Radio Free Europe.

Tufta I wouldn't call it tame compared to already 'wild' music in the free world, because Poles had their own musical development and underground musical scenes and parties (no doubt). The rule of the grass greener on the other of the fence was in operation everywhere. In the free spirit of the sixtees young poeple on both sides of the Iron Curtain longed for something new. Student Protests in Poland in 1968 and the Prague Spring in Czecholsovakia. World wide there was something going on. Culturally, politically and in the musical sense. Music was also a voice for rebellion, protest, rejection of the old and embracement of the new. The electronic development, the new concerts, the distribution of new kinds of music. The 'first Solidarity' perdiod in 1980 must have been a wonderful period of hope and mental strenght. That Polish music blossomed is not a surprise. Solidarnosc was a massmovement and there maybe was an underground paralel society emerging, of black market, freedom within the boundaries of intimate friends, fellow dissidents, strikers, cultural circles, and the coalition of Polish intelligentsia and workers that stood behind this proces and new culture (or mentality). Ofcourse I though that there was more than only the official approved, state sponsored and tames musical entertainment. A nation of 40 million people in Central-Europe with such a rich past, such a culture and history, such multi-cultural influences could not have no interesting musical scene. From the mainstream, majority Polish Roman-Catholic culture with it's peoples music, Polish Folk music, entertainment, party music, conservatory of various cities, and need of people to make, listen to and engage in music. Musicians will always have and audience and music will always survive and be universal or not. In Poland maybe not on the surface also the musical influence of the minorities played a role indirectly. The Klezmer music of the Polish jews, the Gypsy music, the peoples music of the Greek-Catholic Ukrainians, the Orthodox music of the Russians and Belarussians, and probably some inlfuences of minorities as Germans, Armenians, Georgians, Kashubians and Goral people.

Cheers,
Pieter

[pjotr]

Feb 22, 2013 21:40:37 GMT 1 tufta said:

Don't be disappointed - we were behind the Iron Curtian, no-one - apart from music journalists I guess - had any idea about Nederbeat. English -singing groups were treated as... English or American, the differentiation came later, with time and growing-up.

Tufta,

This is totally logic, understandable and a healthy way of thinking. Even some Dutch or Belgian people who heard the music of the English sounding band names and their songs, could not always destinghuis between Dutch and British beatbands, because like you so correctly said, their music was in the same line of musical quality, sound and expression. And there is nothing wrong with that. I even have or can call three German bands that are internationally know as English language bands: "The Scorpions, Propaganda and Nena"

For Dutch Beat-, Rock-, or Pop bands real succes meant when they performed on stage in the larger Eastern neighbour country Germany or when they scored hits in the USA or Great-Britain, which are dominated by their own American and English music scenes, famous bands and musical movements (Britpop, Sca, rock, Hard rock/metal, Funk, Blues, Soul and etc.)

Cheers,
Pieter

[pjotr]

Tufta,

I love the sound of Skaldowie, because it has in the same time a very Polish atmosphere and sound, but from the other side has the same British/American influences the Dutch bands had, like the Hamond organ like organ, the way the chords are played, the rifs, the rythm, melody, the bass player, the drums and the guitars. In Skaldowie from my Western-European mindset and musical influences I see the the influence for instance from Deep Purple.



And that does not makes Skaldowie less or a copier. Music always develops itself when artists learn from eachother and often when they make beautiful covers of other bands, and put something new in that cover, without deleting the crucial inlfuence of the original.

Here a fewexamples of that:

The Cover (beautiful)


The original (beautiful too)


Another example

Cover


Original


And the last example:

Cover


Original

[pjotr]

I simply love the song of Kzrystof Klenczon. The instrumental qualities of it. The beat/sound, the guitars, the bass, the exellent drummer and the fine end with the nice guitar sound fading away. And I like his voice, although I can't understand the content. Good music makes you believe the content without understanding it. It's like when I was a kid and I loved the British, American and French music I heard, but could not understand. Some of that early music (musical influences) is part of your subconciousness. We are connected to a European and Global musical tradition. I am a guy of drawing, painting, photography and filming. Don't play an instrument, don't know notes, but despite of that "handicap" I hold music in the highest regard. To me it is the most important art of the arts.

[pjotr]

I loved the energetic and optimistic song of Klan, and their sound surely is comparable to the Outsiders. Exellent band, good swing, good beat, good singing, good harmony of the unstruments which merge together in the song with the voice. It has that typical sixtees upbeat sound! I like the role the paino plays in the song too and that the singer starts using his voice as an instrument at the end. Thanks for posting. It's nice to learn something about the Polish musical history in general and these bands in particular. In the eigjhtees I did not know much more about Polish pop music than the Polish hard rock band Turbo, because I had their Long Play record "Dorosłe Dzieci".



That for me represented Polish Pop Music. I did not know that Czesław Niemen existed for instance. I have learned a great deal thank to the Polish culture Forums and people like you, Bonobo, Bunjo and Aadam of the old (Jaga) Forum. And ofcourse also from other Poles. I found out that there was another cultural, musical, poetic and literary music behind the Iron Curtain. I knew the writers, the poets, the composers and the dissident movement, but the musicians came later.

[tufta]

Interesting! I will play your music during the day, most probably during my post-obiad newspapers-reading session

[pjotr]

In one of the main Dutch Beat music towns Scheveningen the Rolling Stones played. It was the first concert of the Rolling Stones in the Netherlands. The Rolling Stones were considered a wild band with wild and tough fans and the Beatles the more relaxed and civilized band. That polarisation or anti-thesis between the two bands was of course ridiculous, because both bands were good and they exchanged lyrics and knew eachother. Real musicians I know find the separation of both bands and the Beatles and Stones fans an artificial thing, also created by the media of that time. The Dutch audience was so exitedat that the concert in Scheveningen that they had to be stopped by the Police. You can't imagine such scene's today.





You have to understand that the Netherlands was a very tame society back then. They just came out of the absolutely boring and very quiet fiftees. People worked hard, were descent, there were no large criminal problems, no drugs, not a complicated multi-cultural society. Those were the post-war rebuilding years. This are not my words, but the words of older Dutch people I know, who are in their eightees, seventees and some in their sixtees. The Dutch were very clean, descent and hard working, law abiding citizens. In 1964 it was stil a pillarised society. The new time was coming, but the changes started in the late sixtees.

The wild Rolling Stones were a comet entering this tame, descent and rather conservative society. The rebellious youth of the Hague (and probably some from Amsterdam and Rotterdam too) went wild. I don't understand why they played in the Kurhaus, which was a rather exclusive theater for Cabaret and theatre.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurhaus_of_Scheveningen

[pjotr]

The Beatles in that same year





And in 1969 John Lennon came back with Yoko Ono

[pjotr]

This is the important radio station that my mother (living and working in Warsaw in that time) and other Poles listened to during the late fiftees and sixtees.





And not only the Poles and other Central-Europeans. In the 1950's and 1960's - teenagers in the UK loved Radio Luxembourg simply because it played the music we really wanted to hear - rather than what the BBC or the Government thought we should hear. Without realising it, they also created a wonderful memory for millions when they closed down in the wee small hours. - This is that memory.

P.S.- Radio Luxemburg must have influenced many young musicians and music students too in that period.

[pjotr]

After Nederbeat came Nederpop: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederpop

Thanks to the Polish culture Forums I was able to listen to exellent Polishbeat and Polishpop or Polopop. Thank you.

A few from the Dutch Nederpop bands or singers that I like.




This is a Dutch band who sings in the Southern Limburg dialect (which is close to Flemish and has some Southern German influences)



An Amsterdam band - When she isn't there.










A Dutch love song for Belgium by the band Goede Doel (Good Cause)


Kadanz (band) - In the Darkness


Kadanz - Intimiteit: (A song about intimacy within a love relationship)

[tufta]

Hello!
It was a very nice meeting with Dutch music, Pieter. Thanks! And you are right that almost every band has it's analogue in Poland. For instance if I take the first 'Johnny and his cellar' with its beautifully simple beat in the front, typical way of singing in the middle and 'extremely electric' and as simple guitar riffs in between, Czerwone Gitary or Czerwono-Czarni, or Trzy Korony come to mind, enough to change the language -


and that all those Polish groups were under deep influence of The Beatles. Some of them however did just just 'ape' but added something from their Polish background. This more ambitious situation somehow resembles the case of Chopin. He used a new instrument, then-recently constructed, used a western Europe's invented stylistics to convey a totally local i.e. Polish content. While for instance Penderecki or Lutos³awski conveyed something 'locally-born' using their own, new stylistics. I think Skaldowie are among the groups which were able to do 'Penderecki's' way in the above meaning. They have created something new. Of course they used the newly-constructed instruments - Hammond organ, but I personally find the content and stylistics fresh and new. The more so with Czes³aw Niemen - who was btw the most lucky guy financially and managed to use (buy with hard currency) Hammonds as the first in Poland. Pieter my point is - if we turn it around -Deep Purple and their Child in Town, is created behind the Iron Curtain, and in a language of some 60-70 million people, while Skaldowie do their job in the free world and Polish is spoken by 500 miliion people - we would say that Child in Time was inspired by Mateusz IV or another Polish suite I am of course exaggerating a bit,joking maybe, to make my point clearer, since child in Time was released a few months befiore Mateusz. Since I went that path, look here Pieter:

[tufta]

Hello!
It was a very nice meeting with Dutch music, Pieter. Thanks! And you are right that almost every band has it's analogue in Poland. For instance if I take the first 'Johnny and his cellar' with its beautifully simple beat in the front, typical way of singing in the middle and 'extremely electric' and as simple guitar riffs in between, Czerwone Gitary or Czerwono-Czarni, or Trzy Korony come to mind, enough to change the language -


and that all those Polish groups were under deep influence of The Beatles. Some of them however did just just 'ape' but added something from their Polish background. This more ambitious situation somehow resembles the case of Chopin. He used a new instrument, then-recently constructed, used a western Europe's invented stylistics to convey a totally local i.e. Polish content. While for instance Penderecki or Lutos³awski conveyed something 'locally-born' using their own, new stylistics. I think Skaldowie are among the groups which were able to do 'Penderecki's' way in the above meaning. They have created something new. Of course they used the newly-constructed instruments - Hammond organ, but I personally find the content and stylistics fresh and new. The more so with Czes³aw Niemen - who was btw the most lucky guy financially and managed to use (buy with hard currency) Hammonds as the first in Poland. Pieter my point is - if we turn it around -Deep Purple and their Child in Town, is created behind the Iron Curtain, and in a language of some 60-70 million people, while Skaldowie do their job in the free world and Polish is spoken by 500 miliion people - we would say that Child in Time was inspired by Mateusz IV or another Polish suite I am of course exaggerating a bit,joking maybe, to make my point clearer, since child in Time was released a few months befiore Mateusz. Since I went that path, look here Pieter - and take it with a grain of salt pls



Hear that flute? It was ages before Jethro Tull.

Lookie here:


see that framing? It was eons before more famous version



;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

What say you, Pieter?

Anyway, if you allow me to fund my private Best Dutch Music Cup, basing on what you presented, the silver cup goes to
































Boudewijn de Groot!

while the golden cup to:




































Earth and Fire!


Thanks Pieter, it was a pleasure!

[tufta]

It is very hard to find something about Polish pop of 60/70ties, which you don't know Pieter. Yet I think I remembered something which may be - or maybe not?- new to you. Quite a grand phenomenon in fact! It's name is
Wojciech Korda and Ada Rusowicz. Known also as a group 'Niebiesko-Czarni'. They have recorded a two-LP rock-opera entitled "Naga". Means 'naked'. By naked they ment 'truth' and 'liberty'. Such a code-word in Poland Anno Domini 1971. Most probably inspired by Hair







Some of their earlier stuff, directly taken from folk music

[tufta]

Finally, something extra super special.

Here's Ada Rusowicz's daughter, in 2011, recording a retro song a la her mum.

[pjotr]

Gold



Silver



Bronze


Their music has a resemblance with Frank Zappa