Polonia World - do they live in the past?

[pjotr]

Dear Polish friends,

Tufta and Bonobo, I wonder how you as Polish Poles, with a polish life in Poland, living in the Polish reality, view Polish-Americans and the other Polonia in the world. Do you hear about them in Poland, are there connections between Poland and the Expat Poles and Diaspora Poles. Is there criticism, humor or commentary about these Poles or people with a Polish heritage abroad? If I may share my thoughts with you, I look at it from some 'objective' distance from the outside viewer who looks at both Poland and the Polish diaspora with the look of a person with 50% Polish roots (or blood) and a life outside Poland and the Polish Diaspora. I see the Polish Diaspora or Polonia as a collective or group identity. In that sense I do not belong to the Polonia. On the other side I do have a personal connection with Poland, Poles and Polonia, due to the fact that relatives are Poles and Polish-Americans, and I have contact with you.

Some critical minds within the Polish expat communities have a feeling that people in organised Polonia organisations live in their own world which goes away. They want to preserve some traditions from their own generation, and there is nothing wrong with that. But will their children and grandchildren carry on that tradition? I have my doubts, because many people of the younger generations become Americanised or integrate and assimilate in the West-European countries they reside in. If you have two Polish parents and live abroad you have a chance that you learn the language, customs, traditions and culture of Poland, but if you have only one Polish parent, the chances drop dramatically, because you don't grow up hearing both your parents speaking Polish at home.

Many Polish-Americans and Polonia in other countries in the (Western-) world live in their own world of a romantic image and vision of a Poland which doesn't exist anymore. The modern, democratic, pragmatic, dynamic, free and progressive Poland of today (in the sense of liberal democracy, technological progression, new ideas and connection to the Western world and ideas) is different than their Pre-war or Post-war (Cold war times) vision of Poland. It's the same, exactly the same ofcourse with Dutch-Americans, German-Americans, Italian-Americans, Ukrainian-Americans and others with a European heritage, who have the view of the good old Europe of the fiftees, thirtees or twenties.


Daily life in Warsaw in the 1930ies

A fellow Forum member on the other Polish Forum told me that what I stated above here was exactly what the communist (Stalinist) Bierut-Golmuka regime told their subjugated citizens. He said: "There's just one problem with that: When there's no history, no tradition, then there's NO FUTURE." I agree with him on that, but ib the same time stand by my and Jaga's criticism of the Polonia as an artifact of old people with nostalgic and sentimental feelings.

My reply to him (Good old Polish-American Nicetoe) was:

Nicetoe,

I am not a representative of the former (communist) Polish Peoples Republic, the Polish United Workers' Party, PZPR, nor from the present Polish left (SLD). I have never been a communist nor a socialist. My only sin in the past is that I have voted for Dutch Labour, but they are Social-democrats. Ofcourse the Polish communist regime was critical about the Polish Diaspora, the Polonia, in Western-Europe and the USA. For the wrong, opportunistic, false and political reason that they believed in the truth of Marxism-Leninism, and their 'New Poland', a Socialist state. I explained that my word progressive has a different meaning. With progressive I mean the new, pluralistic, liberal democracy Poland. I criticize the sentimental, distorched, cliché image some Polish-Americans have about a Poland that does not exist any longer. History, tradition and a cultural connection to Poland is important for me as being a half Pole, and maybe being part of a Polish diaspora. My Polish diaspora is this Polish Culture Forum, and Bonobo's Polish culture Forum. My Diaspora idea is this freedom of expression and exchange of ideas on this Forum. That pluriform Polonia idea is the freedom and great fact that we can disagree on things, and that you can criticize me and I can defend myself. I stil believe that a lot of Polonia in the USA and also other parts of the world have an outdated view of Poland, due to a lack of understanding and connection to present day Poland.


The procession of school children to celebrate the Spring Festival, organized by the Folk School Society in Krakow.. Kraków, 1934-05-03.

In the same time the Polish-Americans and old Polish-Dutch are entitled and free to have their folkloristic, sentimental and romantic outdated (in my view) image of Poland with Folkdances, Diaspora Polish culture (which is different than Polish culture in Poland) and Polish nationalism. My proof of this is the fact that I have contacts with Diaspora Poles and Poles from Poland. They are different, and that is okay, and I think they enrich eachother in communication, contact and exchange of ideas, information and knowledge. And now some selfcriticism Nicetoe. I think that as being part of the Polish diaspora or half Pole I am part of the group I criticized overhere myself. I have my own sentimental memories about the Poland of the seventies and eighties, and the stories of my Polish family and Polish friends of my mother of the twenties, thirties, fourtees, fiftees, sixtees, seventies and eightees. I remember the stories of the family life in Prewar Poland, during the Nazi-Occupation, during the Bierut Stalinist period (the worst period of communist Poland: 1945-1956), the communist regime after that (1956-1989), and democratic free Poland (1989-1990). I have an idealistic or romantic image of the Poland of the Interbellum (1919-1939) and the Post-communist Poland (1989-2013) myself.


Poznan, 1937

But that Diaspora image of Poland held by me has been corrected or criticized by real Poles from Poland I met on the Internet and in real life. Aadam (probably from Warsaw), Bunjo (from Warsaw), Pawian (Bonobo) (from Krakow), Tufta (from Warsaw) and Piotr Gardecki (From Wrocław: whom I met and spoke with in the Netherlands twice), being in Krakow in April 2004 and Warsaw in August 2006 and friends of my mother from Poznan and Warsaw (I asked about her phone conversations with those people inside Poland). I was confronted with mild ironical remarks if I made sentimental or romantic statements about Poland or stated some outdated 'oldfashionate' ideas about for instance 'Old Varsovians' and 'New Varsovians' after the war. Varsovians themselves corrected me saying 'to distinghuish between Old- and New Varsovians is outdated today, because there are only Varsovians'. I was thinking the old way, like Poles who survived the Warsaw uprising in which large part of the Varsovian elite, intelligentsia and old Varsovian population was exterminated or removed from the Polish capital. After the war many people of other parts of Poland came to populate the Polish capital. People from other towns, cities and villages. Workingclass, farmers, middle class and etc. They were newcommers, they were the 'New Varsovians'. The 'New Varsovians' merged with the 'Old Varsovians' during the decades and in that development the New Warsaw developped and Varsovians became Varsovians, whether they were old or new Varsovians. My Polish family from my mother (my dziadek, babcia, mother and aunt -later Polish-American aunt from Chicago) were 'New Varsovians' in the twenties, thirties and fourties. My babcia's family came from Southern-Poland (near Krakow) and my dziadeks family came from North-East Poland (near Lithuania). I have a distorched, romantic, Polish Patriotic, colored view of their life in Pre-war Poland in a beautiful, modern, cosmopolitan, rich, Independent and Free Poland. But was it free? Was it prosporous for every (or most) Poles? It was the period of the Sanacja regime. First Pilsudski and after his death the colonels regime. My family had a good life back then. A family member was a christian-democratic parlaiment member (probably Pro-Sanacja or neutral), my dziadek had a good position as a teacher at a girls lyceum in Warsaw and inspector of a Warsaw school district. They had a good life, good contact with both families, work, school/education, vacations, friends and nice colleages. Everything changed due to the Second World War and the Communist years after that, which ruined their future, status, wealth, careers. I see a black and white image Nicetoe. Interbellum years (1919-1939) and Post-communist time (1989-2013) good and Second World War (1939-1945) and communist years (1945-1989) bad. That is my belief and that is what I heard from family members, my mother and Poles that I speak and spoke with. But is everything black and white. Did not love, marriages, work, study, life and hope continued during the war and in the time of the Polish peoples republic? Why do I have good memories about my vacations as a child and teenager in Socialist Poland during the seventies and eighties? The regime was bad an corrupt, I felt the tension in the air, the people were opressed, but they lived their lives with their friends, colleages, loved ones and did what they wanted to do with or without the approval of the authorities. The work and effort of the dissidents, the underground writers, poets, journalists, artists, workers and etc. (KOR/Solidarnosc).


Daniel and Laura Schwarzwald, pictured on a beach in Zaleszczyki, Poland, shortly after they were married. Poland, 1935.

Again I am part of that Polish diaspora or Polonia without being an official member or having contact with that Diaspora (because I am a loner and individualist, I don't believe in the collective of a group). I admid that I am more interested in Poland than in the Polish Diaspora and in contact with Poles. But next to that the Polish diaspora is a source of interest and inspiration to me, if that Diaspora or Polonia is directly connected to Poland. My criticism was directed at the isolated Polonia, who have no realistic image of present day Poland. Ofcourse Polish history, Polish tradition, the special Polish version or flavor of Roman-Catholicsm, Polish culture, the Polish language, Polish customs, Polish peoples culture (Polish Folk) and Polish people outside Poland are important. I will never deny that. I also support or welcome the Polish diaspora culture of the Polonia, even if sometimes that has nothing to do with Poles or Poland. Polish-Americans and Poles are two different things (Like the jewish Diaspora in Europe and the USA on one side and the Israeli's on the other side are two different things). Polish-American culture and Polish culture are two different things too. But they are interrelated and connected. The 10 million Polish-Americans are important. They should travel to Poland more, stay in Poland for a while, connect to Poland and exchange ideas and knowledge with Poles. Polish-American business people could do business with Poland, Polish-American pupils, highschool and university students could go on Polish summer course in Poland. Poles from Poland could travel to the USA and teach Polish Americans Polish and etc, etc. And ofcourse this is happening right now. There are connections and there is exchange between Polish-Americans and Poles. But again Polish-Americans and Poles are two different people. Polish-Americans are Americans, they are Yankees!


Biala Podlaska, Poland, 1935.

Cheers,
Pieter

Link: jagahost.proboards.com/thread/15071/polonia-world-live-past?page=1&scrollTo=81480

[pjotr]

On December Dec 7, 2008 I wrote this about this subject:

Diaspora communities


Lithuanian Poles walk through the streets of Vilnius during “Polonia”-day ( remembrance of the Polish diaspora), May 2nd 2008

Sometimes Diaspora communities have an old fashionate, conservative and nostalgic view of their old country. For instance the Dutch diaspora communities in the USA, Southern-America, South-Africa and other places often cherish and maintain the Duth culture and mentality of the time they left Holland. They often have old fashionate Dutch households, are conservative Protestant Christians or Catholics, in America often the rightwing of the Republican party. Maybe the same thing is with the Polish diaspora the matter, that they have a 19th century, pre-war (before 1939) or Polish Peoples republic view on things. My mother told me about very Polish nationalist Polish-Americans in Chicago who couldn't speak a word of Polish, but twere the biggest fierce Polish Patriots you could imagine. My mother was suprised about that and made some ironical and critical comments about it. They are not Polish, but have a folklorist, sentimental, distorched view about Poland. At least my cousins in Chicago and Milwaukee were brought up by two Polish speaking Polish parents who moved to America from Poland after the war. They speak the language and visit Poland regulary, but they are Americans, English speaking people with English speaking kids, who get Polish culture lessons as well,
but who are American kids in an American family with Polish-Amerian roots.


Outside the Polish Embassy in London last April, Poles living in the United Kingdom paid tribute to President Lech Kaczynski, killed in a plane crash in Russia. (September 2010)

[tufta]

Hi Pieter,
It's all a bit complicated and ambiguous as all generalisations usually are. As a rule members of Polish diaspora are people, or descendants of people who most of all cared for their personal well-being. This can be said generally about the whole American society: personal success goes first. Yet, even to that rule there're so many exceptions - prosecution, extreme poverty as a root of emigration - that my initial 'as a rule' is probably greatly exaggerated. But you get my point.


Part, stress on part, of Polish pre-1989 diaspora has a huge merit in helping Poland break away from real-communism. Post-1989 diaspora are generally just better-oportunity seekers.

I cannor speak for Bo or others but to me - the main discrepancy inside American Polania's attitude is in between two facts: Americans of Polish origin are among the most successful in USA, yet Poland as a country is among having the worst press, with prejudice, sometimes outward slander of Poland or Poles being allowed, 'allowable' in American society, media , and so on.

[pjotr]

Jul 2, 2013 17:32:43 GMT 1 tufta said:

Hi Pieter,
It's all a bit complicated and ambiguous as all generalisations usually are. As a rule members of Polish diaspora are people, or descendants of people who most of all cared for their personal well-being. This can be said generally about the whole American society: personal success goes first. Yet, even to that rule there're so many exceptions - prosecution, extreme poverty as a root of emigration - that my initial 'as a rule' is probably greatly exaggerated. But you get my point.

We agree on that facts. Extreme poverty as a root of emigration was a reason for many German, Dutch, Irish, Italian and Russians as well to move to the USA in the late 19th century and the first half of the 20th century. Next to the impoverished Ashkenazi Jewish masses in Central-European and Eastern-European countries a lot of Roman-Catholic and Eastern-orthodox Western- and Eastern slavs moved to America (Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Belarussians). There was even xenophobia in WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) North-West America agains these Jewish, Roman-Catholic and Orthodox christian immigrants from Poland and Russia.

Part, stress on part, of Polish pre-1989 diaspora has a huge merit in helping Poland break away from real-communism. Post-1989 diaspora are generally just better-oportunity seekers.

I heard about it. A few brave and rich Polish-American entepreneurs or influential people, who dared to stand up for Poland, defend it and offer financial or vocal support.

I cannor speak for Bo or others but to me - the main discrepancy inside American Polania's attitude is in between two facts: Americans of Polish origin are among the most successful in USA, yet Poland as a country is among having the worst press, with prejudice, sometimes outward slander of Poland or Poles being allowed, 'allowable' in American society, media , and so on.

Tufta, maybe that has to do with the fact that Polish-Americans are often not part or owners of the American Press and Media. I think that the American press and media for a great deal is owned by Jewish-Americans and Protestant Americans. And some of them are fair and produce, print and check facts (quality research journalism) and many are bad, like many other newspapers and magazines in the world. Polack bashing (verbal) is a fact in the USA, and unfortunately 'Polack jokes' are common in the USA. Anti-Polonism and mocking Poles, Poland and Polish-Amricans is deeply rooted in sections of the American society and fed by generations, decades old stereotypes, prejudices and bigotry.

Anti-Polonism

The Polish community was long the subject of anti-Polish sentiment in America. The word, Polack, has become a racial slur. Much of this prejudice was associated with anti-Catholicism and early 20th century worries, about being overrun by Central European immigrants.

[uncltim]

I don't think I hold any romantic notions about what Poland is or was. I don't even consider myself part of Polonia. I'm more of a Polonius.. I do have Polish ancestry, but I am completely an American. My elders didn't speak of Poland often or even fondly, much too busy living their lives here. I became interested in the country some time ago because there is a historical connection for me. I'm glad my ancestors left during the partition. However, If I were to decide to leave here, Poland would be a consideration. (Although not my first.)

Piojtr, As far as media goes, nobody here watches or listens to the news media anyway. It's generally ridiculed by anyone except the most dense. There are so many good web aggregators out there that we are simply waiting for the old media relics to collapse into the ether. My greatest joy will be seeing Katie Kouric selling diet pills on late-night television.

[jeanne]

Jul 4, 2013 1:02:19 GMT 1 uncltim said:

I don't think I hold any romantic notions about what Poland is or was. I don't even consider myself part of Polonia. I'm more of a Polonius.. I do have Polish ancestry, but I am completely an American. My elders didn't speak of Poland often or even fondly, much too busy living their lives here. I became interested in the country some time ago because there is a historical connection for me. I'm glad my ancestors left during the partition. However, If I were to decide to leave here, Poland would be a consideration. (Although not my first.)

Tim,

My father's parents were both born in Poland, and were interested in being Americans only. My father only wanted to fit in as an American also, so very little of their Polish culture was passed along to me. I became interested in Polish culture on my own, and I enjoy continuing to learn about it. Unfortunately, the more you learn about a culture, the more you see that it also has flaws like every other culture, so that has made me also appreciate my own American culture more (the valuable aspects of it, that is...)

[pjotr]

Jim and Jeanne,

I didn't react to your posts. Now I do much later. Uncletim's statement and historical narrative are clear, understandable, and the reality of America and his (your) life there. It's perfectly okay. And it is okay too that you became interested in Poland from your own inniative. It is the country of your ancesters and therefor partly your roots. You inheritaged your Polish sounding surname from them.

Is it true that you and your wife lived for a while in Poland a few years ago. You moved back to the USA after a while, because it was hard for your wife to adabt to the Polish way of life. Katie Kouric is a fine looking lady. She is unknown to us in Europe. So she must be a typical American phenomenon.

Cheers,
Pieter

[pjotr]

Dec 24, 2013 1:27:40 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Jul 4, 2013 1:02:19 GMT 1 uncltim said:

I don't think I hold any romantic notions about what Poland is or was. I don't even consider myself part of Polonia. I'm more of a Polonius.. I do have Polish ancestry, but I am completely an American. My elders didn't speak of Poland often or even fondly, much too busy living their lives here. I became interested in the country some time ago because there is a historical connection for me. I'm glad my ancestors left during the partition. However, If I were to decide to leave here, Poland would be a consideration. (Although not my first.)

Tim,

My father's parents were both born in Poland, and were interested in being Americans only. My father only wanted to fit in as an American also, so very little of their Polish culture was passed along to me. I became interested in Polish culture on my own, and I enjoy continuing to learn about it. Unfortunately, the more you learn about a culture, the more you see that it also has flaws like every other culture, so that has made me also appreciate my own American culture more (the valuable aspects of it, that is...)

Jeanne,

Good that you yourself did made the connection with Poland. It's like with some Jewish friends of mine in the Netherlands. A girlfriend of mine, her jewish mother didn't care about Judaism, Jewish culture or Jewish identity. It probably had to do with difficulties because of the war. So my girlfriend on her own became interested in Judaism and did something with it. Yiddish cuisine, Jewish philosophy and traditions (holidays).
You do that with your Polish heritage, despite the disinterest of your grandparents and father. That is admirable and very good. You are a positive example of Polishness in the Polish diaspora.

Cheers,
Pieter

[jeanne]

Aug 1, 2014 17:32:27 GMT 1 pjotr said:

Dec 24, 2013 1:27:40 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Tim,

My father's parents were both born in Poland, and were interested in being Americans only. My father only wanted to fit in as an American also, so very little of their Polish culture was passed along to me. I became interested in Polish culture on my own, and I enjoy continuing to learn about it. Unfortunately, the more you learn about a culture, the more you see that it also has flaws like every other culture, so that has made me also appreciate my own American culture more (the valuable aspects of it, that is...)

Jeanne,

Good that you yourself did made the connection with Poland. It's like with some Jewish friends of mine in the Netherlands. A girlfriend of mine, her jewish mother didn't care about Judaism, Jewish culture or Jewish identity. It probably had to do with difficulties because of the war. So my girlfriend on her own became interested in Judaism and did something with it. Yiddish cuisine, Jewish philosophy and traditions (holidays).
You do that with your Polish heritage, despite the disinterest of your grandparents and father. That is admirable and very good. You are a positive example of Polishness in the Polish diaspora.

Cheers,
Pieter

[jeanne]

Pieter,

Thanks for your kind words. I do enjoy learning about Polish culture, and I also enjoy trying to find my grandparents' roots in Poland, especially exactly where they came from. It is a difficult process, but I guess if I put more time and effort into it, I would make more progress.

Something that I have been thinking about lately is how important written documents, like Birth Certificates, Baptismal Certificates, etc., plus hand-written letters are to the process of tracing one's ancestors. I worry that with the upcoming generations, they will not have these tangible sources to help them discover their ancestors, because all that information is somewhere in cyber-space. With the death of hand-written correspondence to email and texting, that very personality-revealing source that lets descendents have a "window" into their ancestors' souls has been eliminated. 'Just my thoughts...

Jeanne

[pjotr]

Dear Jeanne,

You're welcome. We are brothers and sisters of the Polish diaspora. Due to our heritage and parents (or one of our parents in my case) we feel connected to Poland, Polish history, Polish culture and the Polish branch of Roman-Catholicism (in my case). Like you I do enjoy learning about Polish culture, and I I like to ask my mother about her Polish past (she was born in Warsaw in November 2, 1934 and lived and worked in Poland until 1967)), my Polish family and Polish American family (in Chicago and Milwauke). I perfectly understand that it is a difficult process for you, and I hope it is worthwhile for you. It is also worthwhile (if you have the chance to visit Poland financially and practically). For me it was very good that I visited Warsaw for a week in August 2006 and Krakow before that for a week in April 2004.When you are there you feel the connection stronger and in the same time you will witness that you are an American, like I felt being a Dutchman over there. From the other side the feeling of connection was stronger for me in Warsaw and Krakow then in Prague and Budapest, two other Central-European cities I like very much.

You can't fade away 50% Polish blood, the influence a Polish mother had who spoke and speaks Dutch with a Slavic accent, and delete 'Polish memories' I had as a child in the Poland of the seventies and eighties.

Written documents, like Birth Certificates, Baptismal Certificates, school reports, diploma's, family letters, Wills and testaments and etc. indeed are important. Hand-written letters have also a personal, psychological and emotional value, because you can examin how ancesters thought, and a little bit about their lives -in the case when they are open in their letters; for me for instance the memores of my grandmother is of very great value and importance. They were translated from Polish into English by my Polish-American cousins -for which I am very greatful to them-). Letters indeed are very important in the process of tracing one's ancestors. They often give links to names, places, dates and occurances with which you can go to city or town archive of the place your ancesters lived. It is very important that this paper based sources are being digitalized, so that the information of old archives will be accesable for future generations. So again my answer to you is that the digitalized paper archives are very important today and in the future.

Cheers,
Pieter

[pjotr]

The influence of Poland is growing in Europe and the world. Thus the position of the Polonia worldwide will change too. The communities in England (GB) and Ireland are growing. So does the Polish community in the Netherlands. The Polish diaspora in the USA is huge and probably one of the most influential Polonia's in the world. With their political, religious and cultural representations, press, organizations and foundations (charity).

[Bonobo]

Jun 28, 2013 0:59:58 GMT 1 pjotr said:

Dear Polish friends,
Some critical minds within the Polish expat communities have a feeling that people in organised Polonia organisations live in their own world which goes away. They want to preserve some traditions from their own generation, and there is nothing wrong with that. But will their children and grandchildren carry on that tradition? I have my doubts, because many people of the younger generations become Americanised or integrate and assimilate in the West-European countries they reside in. If you have two Polish parents and live abroad you have a chance that you learn the language, customs, traditions and culture of Poland, but if you have only one Polish parent, the chances drop dramatically, because you don't grow up hearing both your parents speaking Polish at home.

Many Polish-Americans and Polonia in other countries in the (Western-) world live in their own world of a romantic image and vision of a Poland which doesn't exist anymore. The modern, democratic, pragmatic, dynamic, free and progressive Poland of today (in the sense of liberal democracy, technological progression, new ideas and connection to the Western world and ideas) is different than their Pre-war or Post-war (Cold war times) vision of Poland. It's the same, exactly the same ofcourse with Dutch-Americans, German-Americans, Italian-Americans, Ukrainian-Americans and others with a European heritage, who have the view of the good old Europe of the fiftees, thirtees or twenties.

Peter, that is a very accurate observation. I have a contact with Am Polonia in another forum (Poles who emigrated to US in late years of 20th century and still feel strongly connected with Poland). I must say that no one is able to infuriate me with their crazy views as those Polonia guys are. They don`t even belong to the past, they belong to the Middle Ages. If Poland were ruled by them, I would seriously consider emmigration. Seldom could I see such narrow-mindedness which verges on madness.

[pjotr]

Dear Bonobo,

It is sad to hear this. But I have to be honest, I would have probably the same experience with people of the Dutch Diaspora in South-Africa, the USA, Canada, and other nations abroad. I saw some documentaries and news items about these people. They come from another world. Some of them are Protestant fundamentalist Tea Party supporters, others die hard American nationalists. They have little in common with Dutch people. They left the Netherlands and often settled in Midwestern or Southern farm communities or smaller towns with old WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) views, and probably merged with the anglo-saxon Amercans via mixed marriages.

Ofcourse there are good Polish-Americans and Dutch-Americans too. These people have kept in touch with reality. Followed Poland in how it developped and went back to see it. But probably the majority of Polish-Americans have lost contact with the present day Poland and cherish a folkloristic sort of old Poland via Polish-American cultural festivals and Polish-American community festivities. Both my American cousins parents were Poles who came from Poland. They spoke Polish at home. Could read and write Polish and often visited their Polish babcia and dziadek, uncles and aunts in Poznan and family and family friends in Warsaw too.

You could say that they stayed connected to Polish Poles in Poland and the country Poland. My mother in the Netherlands did not have contact with the Polish diaspora in the Netherlands, because she had nothing in common with these people on educational level, culture and interests. Her contact was by phone with family and friends in Poland and she visited family and friends in Poznan and Warsaw with us (her husband and children). That is how we connected to Poland directly, and did not became part of the Polish diaspora community. I have nothing against the Polish diaspora community, but don't know them. I don't have Polish contact over here. My contacts are with Polish Poles from Poland and some Polish-Americans who are more Polish than other Polish-Americans, because they were raised in a Polish speaking household (Polish at home and American English outside in the American society). They traveled to Poland dozens of times or more, and have Polish friends and family that visit them in the USA. They also have contacts with fresh Polish immigrants who know something about Poland today. That is different than the Polish-Americans you know who has lost contact and understanding of Modern day Poland. Narrow minded people with crazy views are terrible. I am glad that I am not dependent on them and that I know you and Piotr Gardecki from Wrocław. And I have stil a cousin in Poznan and a friend of my mother I can visit in Warsaw.

I am interested in Poland, Polish Poles, Polish contemporary art, Polish culture, Polish literature, Polish philosophy, Polish music and Polish politics. I am not interested in the Polish diaspora. I like Jeanne, because she is an interesting person, is interested in things and because she is dedicated to this Forum, not because she is a member of the American Polish-American Diaspora. Polish-Americans in my view are just Americans. Dutch-Americans are Americans too. They have very little in common with Dutch people from the Netherlands. Only genes, dna, and probably their Calvinist Dutch Reformed faith if they go to a Reformed Calvinist church. With Polish-Americans that will probably be the American Roman-Catholic church?

Cheers,
Pieter