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Post by pjotr on Dec 5, 2015 0:34:34 GMT 1
Dear Eric and Bonobo,
My mother talked with an old Polish friend of her in Poland via phone and she was shocked about the climate in Poland and the language her friend used. The lady had a xenophobic mindset and talked about how different, dangerous, alien, weird, dangerous, filthy and dirty these people are in her eyes. My mother who is not political correct nor a multi-cutural liberal in the West-European (Dutch sense) said: "People in Poland aren't used to foreigners and muslim migrants in particular. We have a lot of moderate, good muslims over here. The extremists, the criminals and the terrorists are a tiny minority of the Muslim migrants. " It is true, we have a lot of integrated or better said Dutch Muslims. They have lived in the Netherlands and have a dual identity, in the sense that they come from Turkey and Morocco, and thus are ethnically and culturally Turkish and Moroccan Muslims, but in nationality, living, job and mentality they are Dutch and European. A lot of the second and third generation Turkish-Dutch and Moroccan Dutch people don't even speak Turkish or Moroccan any more. Turkey and Morocco for them are distant exotic holiday destinations and countries where distant family lives who speak another language and often have a different culture and mentality than they have. They have found a combination of the two cultures in theirselves. They carry Turkish and Moroccan names, and are looking Turkish and Moroccan, but they are Dutch citizens, Dutch people, people with a Dutch nationality.
It is the way it is, Poland is a democracy and the Poles have voted as they did. Part of their motivation in voting was their fear and resistance against foreign immigration to Poland, a presumed islamization of Poland and resistance against a dominance of Brussels in Polands internal affairs. And because they were fed up with the old PO government. Bonobo, is the new xenophobia and Islamophobia in Poland and other Central- and Eastern-European countries comparable to the old anti-semitism. In the sense that Muslim migrants are ethnic visible due to their ethnic Middle-eastern and North-African looks.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 5, 2015 17:55:48 GMT 1
1 " People in Poland aren't used to foreigners and muslim migrants in particular.
2
Bonobo, is the new xenophobia and Islamophobia in Poland and other Central- and Eastern-European countries comparable to the old anti-semitism. In the sense that Muslim migrants are ethnic visible due to their ethnic Middle-eastern and North-African looks.
1 Yes, exactly. 2 No, it is not, because old antisemitism was based on economic rivalry and cultural/religious differences between two groups who lived next to each other for centuries. Current Muslim migrants are not visible at all. I don`t even know if there is a mosque in Krakow, let alone smaller towns. |
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Post by pjotr on Dec 5, 2015 23:34:53 GMT 1
Mosques in Poland. Past and present— February 17, 2014 “ There are three purpose built mosques in Poland, with another mosque currently under construction.
However, many more buildings of this kind existed in Poland in the past, owing to the traditionally tolerant laws for religious minorities, including the Muslim faith. During the first half of the 20th century, however, there were cases when it was impossible for mosques to be built because of complexities outside the legal framework. The current legal situation permits construction of sacred buildings by officially recognized denominations, including Islam. Today there are few Muslims in
Poland, approximately 25–35 thousand people, which constitutes about 0.07–0.09%1
of the population." |
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Post by Bonobo on May 19, 2016 21:32:54 GMT 1
Poland should host refugees out of solidarity, compassion, empathy, christian charity, humanity, fraternity, love for fellow human beings in need and because Poland has experienced itself war, destruction, mass murder (genocide), and the killing of women, children, teenagers, fathers and mothers, and elderly people on a large scale. Because Poland experienced the horrors of the First World War and the Second World War it should help the Syrians. Some elements of the Syrian civil war are similar to the Warsaw Uprising or the Getto Uprising. Cheers, Pieter From time to time people are reminded about it. 3 female students went to a Sunday service clad in Muslim garb.     |
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Post by jeanne on May 19, 2016 22:20:36 GMT 1
From time to time people are reminded about it. 3 female students went to a Sunday service clad in Muslim garb. And what was the outcome....what happened? |
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Post by Bonobo on May 19, 2016 22:33:59 GMT 1
From time to time people are reminded about it. 3 female students went to a Sunday service clad in Muslim garb. And what was the outcome....what happened? Nothing during the service - other believers only cast surprised glances at 3 women who fully attended the mass, including Communion. Later, the local Church issued a declaration condemning such provocations. |
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Post by jeanne on May 19, 2016 22:41:09 GMT 1
And what was the outcome....what happened? Nothing during the service - other believers only cast surprised glances at 3 women who fully attended the mass, including Communion. Later, the local Church issued a declaration condemning such provocations. Were the girls Catholics? |
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Post by Bonobo on May 19, 2016 23:08:22 GMT 1
Nothing during the service - other believers only cast surprised glances at 3 women who fully attended the mass, including Communion. Later, the local Church issued a declaration condemning such provocations. Were the girls Catholics? Every Pole is a Catholic for varius reasons.  |
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Post by jeanne on May 19, 2016 23:17:33 GMT 1
Were the girls Catholics? Every Pole is a Catholic for varius reasons. You know what I mean...were they Catholics trying to make a point for greater charity within their own Church? |
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Post by Bonobo on May 19, 2016 23:19:49 GMT 1
Every Pole is a Catholic for varius reasons. You know what I mean...were they Catholics trying to make a point for greater charity within their own Church? Nobody knows that for sure. Today people do so many strange things that it is impossible to find out the real reason. E.g., do you know the reason for running this forum/blog by me? |
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Post by jeanne on May 19, 2016 23:22:32 GMT 1
You know what I mean...were they Catholics trying to make a point for greater charity within their own Church? Nobody knows that for sure. What's up with the Polish press...don't they capture "the story behind the story"?  That's the job of the media...to let us all know what motivated these girls! |
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Post by Bonobo on May 19, 2016 23:23:52 GMT 1
Nobody knows that for sure. What's up with the Polish press...don't they capture "the story behind the story"? That's the job of the media...to let us all know what motivated these girls! The media call it a happening. |
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Post by jeanne on May 20, 2016 1:16:41 GMT 1
What's up with the Polish press...don't they capture "the story behind the story"? That's the job of the media...to let us all know what motivated these girls! The media call it a happening. Ah yes,...I should have known...a happening... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 25, 2016 20:47:00 GMT 1
abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/francis-poland-differ-migrants-ahead-popes-visit-40831326Francis and Poland Differ on Migrants Ahead of Pope's Visit VATICAN CITY — Jul 24, 2016, 8:05 AM ET Support for migrants is so central to Pope Francis' vision for the church that he has made welcoming them a potential test for those seeking entry to Heaven on Judgment Day. The pontiff's advocacy for refugee rights faces a diplomatic test Wednesday when he begins a five-day visit to Poland, where a populist government has slammed the door on most asylum-seekers. Francis is scheduled to meet Polish President Andrzej Duda in Krakow's millennium-old castle atop Wawel Hill where, in the neighboring cathedral, Polish national heroes for centuries have been laid to rest. He then will hold a question-and-answer session with Poland's bishops behind closed doors. [...]
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Post by Bonobo on Sept 17, 2016 19:44:57 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 10, 2016 21:57:35 GMT 1
I suppose one should conform to the idea that Poland will never accept refugees from the Middle East and Africa who undertake a daring voyage across the Mediteranean and enter Europe from the south. The EU expected its countries to share the migrants but a few said NO, including Poland. Reasons: - the former ruling party, PO, declared they were ready to host thousands of refugees, in order to enrich Poland culturally. In result, they lost the elections. - current ruling party, PiS, firmly declares they won`t take any alien migrants. Despite multiple blunders during their first year in power, the party enjoys a steady support of 30%. - any opposition party which wants to challenge PiS in next elections, must promise to keep migrants at bay, otherwise they won`t win. - every year thousands of Ukrainians storm Poland seeking better life. www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/ukraines-refugees-find-solace-in-poland-europes-most-homogenous-society |
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 25, 2016 20:24:56 GMT 1
Anti-immigrant activists from Western Europe praise Poles for their attitude and encourage to hold on, otherwise Poland will experience the same failure with multi-cultural integration as their own countries have.
From Sweden
Comments from viewers: the Vikings must be rolling over in their graves.
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 6, 2017 20:42:24 GMT 1
Majority of Poles do not want refugees in Poland: poll
03.01.2017 13:58
A total of 52 percent of Poles do not want Poland to accept refugees from war-torn countries, a poll by CBOS shows.
Meanwhile, 40 percent of those polled believe Poland should accept refugees, but only temporarily, until they are able to go back home. Only four percent claim the Polish government should allow refugees to settle in Poland.
Two thirds of those polled said Poland should not accept refugees coming to the EU from the Middle East and Africa, but 58 percent said Poland should accept refugees from the war-torn regions of eastern Ukraine.
The authors of the poll said that it was conducted in the first half of December, before a Polish driver was shot and killed in recent terror attack at a Christmas market in Berlin.
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 9, 2017 18:50:55 GMT 1
Polish media start reporting the latest case of a whistle blower from Sweden who is charged with revealing the truth. bluelivesmatter.blue/officer-peter-springare-sweden-migrant-crime/
Officer Peter Springare Under Criminal Investigation For Posting About Migrant Crime In Sweden
By Officer Blue On February 8, 2017 2 Comments
Swedish Police Officer Peter Springare is in trouble for discussing migrant crime.
Swedish Police Officer Peter Springare is in trouble for discussing migrant crime.
Officer Peter Springare Being Investigated For Inciting Racial Hatred After Posting About Migrant Crime Rate In Sweden
Örebro, Sweden – Swedish Police Officer Peter Springare is facing possible criminal charges for “incitement to racial hatred” after posting on Facebook about a majority of the crimes being committed by migrants.
Peter Springare posed that he’s been on the job for 47 years, and he just doesn’t care any more and is going to speak his mind:
“Here we go; this I’ve handled Monday-Friday this week: rape, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, rape-assault and rape, extortion, blackmail, off of, assault, violence against police, threats to police, drug crime, drugs, crime, felony, attempted murder, Rape again, extortion again and ill-treatment.
Suspected perpetrators; Ali Mohammed, mahmod, Mohammed, Mohammed Ali, again, again, again Christopher… what is it true. Yes a Swedish name snuck on the outskirts of a drug crime, Mohammed, Mahmod Ali, again and again.
Countries representing the weekly all crimes: Iraq, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Somalia, Syria again, Somalia, unknown, unknown country, Sweden. Half of the suspects, we can’t be sure because they don’t have any valid papers. Which in itself usually means that they’re lying about your nationality and identity.
Now we’re talking just örebro municipality. And these crimes occupies our utredningsförmåga to 100 %.
So it looks here and has been like for the past 10-15 years.”
After the Facebook post was made, it quickly went viral, drawing the attention of Swedish law enforcement.
According to SVT news, Springare is under investigation for the criminal charge of inciting racial hatred. The officer will continue working until it’s determined if his post amounted to a criminal violation.
“It is a crime in the Criminal Code and I have decided to initiate a preliminary investigation of the crime,” says Maria Sterup, Chief prosecutor of the Special Prosecution Office in Malmö.
While America allows people to openly incite violence against law enforcement on social media with no repercussions, talking about the migrant crime rate apparently constitutes a hate crime in Sweden.
Do you think that any country should prohibit people discussing their experiences like this? We’d like to hear from you. Please let us know on our Facebook page or in the comments below.www.express.co.uk/news/world/764574/Political-Sweden-chaos-police-officer-migrants-blame-serious-crime
In a Facebook post, the officer, who works as an investigator for the police in Örebro, a small city in southern Sweden, admitted what he was writing was not politically correct.
He said he did not care as he would soon be retiring after nearly 50 years of service.
The former deputy chief of the serious crimes division wrote: “I’m so f***** tired. What I’m writing here isn’t politically correct. But I don’t care.
“Our pensioners are on their knees, the schools are a mess, healthcare is an inferno, the police is completely destroyed. Everyone knows why, but no one dares or wants to say why.”
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 21, 2017 21:59:53 GMT 1
Videos about Polish anti-immigrant protests attract a lot of positive comments from abroad.
Landon Aaron
Go Poland ! greetings from America. Don't fall for tyranny !
Dr. Axel Stoll
Dear Poland, please stay in the EU! You can have all the agriculture subsidies you want, just save us from Merkel and the muslim hordes. We like you, Poland! Greetings from your Western neighbour.
Daniel Yanov
God bless the Poland and this people!
Боже, храни Польшу и этих людей!
With respect from Russia. С уважением из Росси.
Oliver Szabo
Great job Polish brothers!!
Respect from Hungary!!
Cody McGrath
Stand in solidarity with you my Polish brothers -A proud Irishman
DoppelgangerPlayer
I'm not even european but Keep it up Poland, Respect from Brazil
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 5, 2017 10:46:25 GMT 1
Even putting on innocent garb which has Muslim connotations might provoke a scandal. A Polish female chess player followed the organisers` request during a tournament in Iran and was heavily criticised on the net for "betraying the values."  |
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 12, 2017 21:28:41 GMT 1
A lot of Poles travel around Europe for work or pleasure. They see what is happening in old EU countries and are strongly against repeating the same scenario in Poland. Their families and friends in Poland follow the thinking. Any Polish government which accepts Muslim immigrants will be finished sooner or later.
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Post by pjotr on Mar 13, 2017 0:07:59 GMT 1
Dear Bonobo,
Unfortunately the favorite solution would be to spread migrants over all European nations and immediately start language lessons the day they arrive in the various nations. Due to the fact that the European solidarity in the EU doesn't work the refugees are mainly flocked into Germany and Sweden. Because the Netherlands, Denmark and Austria are more strict and the Central- and Eastern-European countries refuse to take in any refugees, you get a huge concentration in Germany and Sweden. And Norways already has large ethnic minorities and Finland too. The situation in these Scandinavian countries is tense.
The European Union failed totally in the refugee crisis. Imagine that all these refugees were spread over 28 EU members. In that case Germany and Sweden wouldn't have these problems and all these nations would receive smaller groups of refugees. I wonder how these new refugees will integrate. Maybe they will be more succesful than our Turkish and Moroccan migrants, because thy are more motivated to learn the language to be able to study, get a diploma and get a job and house.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 13, 2017 22:59:12 GMT 1
Dear Bonobo, Unfortunately the favorite solution would be to spread migrants over all European nations and immediately start language lessons the day they arrive in the various nations. Due to the fact that the European solidarity in the EU doesn't work the refugees are mainly flocked into Germany and Sweden. Because the Netherlands, Denmark and Austria are more strict and the Central- and Eastern-European countries refuse to take in any refugees, you get a huge concentration in Germany and Sweden. And Norways already has large ethnic minorities and Finland too. The situation in these Scandinavian countries is tense. The European Union failed totally in the refugee crisis. Imagine that all these refugees were spread over 28 EU members. In that case Germany and Sweden wouldn't have these problems and all these nations would receive smaller groups of refugees. I wonder how these new refugees will integrate. Maybe they will be more succesful than our Turkish and Moroccan migrants, because thy are more motivated to learn the language to be able to study, get a diploma and get a job and house. Cheers, Pieter The problem is that migrants who were relocated to Poland and neighbouring countries have already made it to Germany. We are still not rich enough to satisfy their needs. European solidarity is questioned by Eastern European nations on the basis of Angela Merkel`s invitation issued 2 years ago. Easterners say that Germans invited migrants so let them deal with them now. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/12193876/Angela-Merkels-historic-error-on-immigration.html
In welcoming refugees, Mrs Merkel encouraged a movement of people into Europe that her own country is unwilling to absorb. Now she insists that other member states, who had no choice in the matter, accept immigrants they don’t want. |
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Post by pjotr on Mar 14, 2017 3:01:05 GMT 1
I agree with you with that. I am humanitarian. But the West, NATO, EU, the USA, and the United Nations should create save havens with no fly zones for hostile entities, regimes and countries to settle refugees there. I think we have enough migrants in Western-Europe, and first have to integrate and assimilate them.
The world has to do everything to stop wars, civil wars and terrorism in the Middle-East, North-Africa, Black Central Africa, West-Africa and East-Africa and the terrorism in Asia (the rebel Muslim islands in Thailand, the Phillipines, and the Muslim extremists in Indonesia and Malaysia). Moderate Sunni-muslims should reject the fanatic Salafist and Wahabi Sunni Islam of Saoudi Arabia and Shia Muslims should reject the extremist version of Shia Islam of the terrorist Lebanese Hezbollah (founded and funded by the Islamic Republic of Iran), the Fundamentalist Islamist theocracy Iran, the Houti rebels in Jemen and the extremist Shia militia in Iraq -with their Death squads who systematically murdered Sunni Muslims in Iraq after the US invasion of 2003.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 9, 2017 0:22:31 GMT 1
I agree with you with that. I am humanitarian. But the West, NATO, EU, the USA, and the United Nations should create save havens with no fly zones for hostile entities, regimes and countries to settle refugees there. I think we have enough migrants in Western-Europe, and first have to integrate and assimilate them. Cheers, Pieter Peter, it means you agree that European troops must land in northern Africa and create there refugee and migration camps, instead of the current situation with Italian ships rescuing all migrants, even those close to African shores, and transporting them to Europe. A few thousand every day.
EU to give Poland and Hungary ultimatum to accept migrants: report
04.04.2017 14:52
Poland and Hungary could be forced out of the EU if they do not accept migrants as the bloc plans to issue an ultimatum to the countries, the UK’s The Times daily has said.
The Times said that “Germany, France and up to 21 other countries” are set to issue the ultimatum to Hungary and Poland in 2017 demanding that the two countries “accept their quota of migrants or get out of the EU”.
Neither Poland nor Hungary have accepted any migrants from the Middle East and Africa through an EU programme to relocate some 160,000 of asylum seekers currently residing in camps in Italy and Greece.
In the article published on Tuesday, The Times said that “Hungary has led a rebellion against the quota sheme with a challenge in the EU courts,” while “Poland has ignored the European Commission’s criticism”.
A diplomatic source told the daily: “They will have to make a choice: are they in the European system or not? You cannot blackmail the EU, unity has a price.”
In the coming weeks, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) will hold a hearing on the legality of migrant quotas. A verdict is likely by the end of the year. Experts say that the ECJ will likely rule in favour of the scheme.
“We are confident that the ECJ will confirm validation,” the source told The Times.
“Then they [Hungary and Poland] must abide by the decision. If they don’t then they will face consequences, both financial and political. No more opt-outs. There is no more ‘one foot in and one foot out’. We are going to be very tough on this.” (rg/pk) |
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Post by pjotr on Apr 10, 2017 23:24:32 GMT 1
Not only European troops Bonobo, but also American, Canadian, British, French (with their colonial heritage, knowledge, information and language/intelligence skills -due to the many Berber, Arab and African language speaking French people with Moroccan, Algerian and Tunesian heritage and people from Mauritania, Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Ivory Coast, Benin, Niger, Chad, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Gabon, the east African coastal enclave of Djibouti (French Somaliland) and the island of Madagascar), Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South-Korea, South-Africa. And with the support of Western allies in the Middle-east like Egypt, Jordan, Saoudi-Arabia, Turkey, Iraq, Tunesia, Morocco and others. In the form of United Nations troops, NATO troops, national armies, The African Standby Force (ASF) ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Standby_Force ) these armies and alliances could create safe heavens in which refugee camps could be built and no-fly zones could be created. If Poland and Hungary want to remain in the EU they should accept some migrants, because Germany and Sweden can't take them all. If you spread all these refugees over 28 European countries and some save heavens in the Middle east and Africa the refugees crisis could be dealt with in a propper manner. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 11, 2017 21:18:48 GMT 1
- Not only European troops Bonobo, but also American, - If you spread all these refugees over 28 European countries and some save heavens in the Middle east and Africa the refugees crisis could be dealt with in a propper manner. - Trump said during the campaign that it was high time Europe dealt with her problems on her own. - I don`t think the problem will be dealt with in a proper manner. Millions are planning to relocate to Europe from Africa. www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/22/leaked-report-six-million-migrants-want-to-enter-europe/ |
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Post by Bonobo on May 7, 2017 11:40:11 GMT 1
This story is nearly two years old but it is still pointed at by net users in comments under various refugee issue articles. A Christian family of 5 from Syria was offered extensive aid by local parishioners in Śrem led by their priest - they got an apartment, full board, jobs for parents and schools for 3 kids plus benefits. After some time they secrectly escaped to Germany, at night, without saying a word. That and a dozen cases like that are used by critics as an example showing that those people are not real refugees who try to find a safe heaven from bombardment and even chemical warfare but simple benefit hunters who want to milk the hosting country as much as possible. If Poland and Hungary want to remain in the EU they should accept some migrants, because Germany and Sweden can't take them all. If you spread all these refugees over 28 European countries and some save heavens in the Middle east and Africa the refugees crisis could be dealt with in a propper manner. Yes, but the EU will have to impose the regualtion of compulsory stay in the host country. If not, true and fake refugeees will all escape to Germany and the Netherlands. It will take a long time before Poland reaches similar level of benefits as a better developed West. BTW, the town of Śrem:     |
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Post by pjotr on May 10, 2017 17:39:53 GMT 1
Bonobo, I think that the policies about immigration and refugees should be different. One one side you have the extremely liberal radical left, left and some center right politicians like Angela Merkel, on the other side you have xenophobe, racist, dscriminatory and islamophobe people like Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, Filip de Winter in Belgium ( pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filip_Dewinter ), Heinz-Christian Strache in Austria ( pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz-Christian_Strache ), the guys of Alternatywa dla Niemiec, and the French, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Swiss, British, Hungarian and Polish national conservative rightwing Populists. One side is the lenient and the other side is to strict. I think a middle road is necessery. Real refugees yes, but also a policy, traject and organisation of immediate integration with language lessons from the first day they arrive. Why> Because that is fair to the refugees and migrants and fair to the native Europeans. Language, cultural, ethnic and religious problems are huge in Western Europe due to not integrated first generation Muslim migrants and their offspring. Racism and discrimination must be dealt with but also with identity fraud, lack of integration and getthoisation of European inner cities. You probably know the example of the banlieu's in France. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BanlieueCheers, Pieter |
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That's the job of the media...to let us all know what motivated these girls!
