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Post by Bonobo on Oct 20, 2015 19:41:12 GMT 1
Today I had a replacement class in vocational school unit. I tried to speak some English but those guys virtually know nothing at the age of 18. Only a few are able to ask basic questions like What`s your name? or How old are you? More complex structures are out of question. I even pitied those guys today because it was visibly the matter of low intellectual capabilities, so it is not their fault, actually. Learning a foreign language like English, alien to Polish in so many aspects, can be quite a challenge. I don`t teach in vocational units and I thank God for that. Those students not only lack intelligence but they can also be notorious troublemakers. Fellow teachers share stories from some of their lessons and most sound shocking. Once a bored student lit his mate`s hair with a lighter in class. Using tabboo words, disrespect towards teachers, skipping school and refusing to work in class are standard things, not worth mentioning. Unbelievable but true. I teach in more elite units called lyceum. Thanks God.  So, Polish high schools are divided into following types: lyceum - students with high amount of points from junior high school exams and certificate can join this type. The best lyceums in Krakow set the limit even at 180 points, very high, with a total average below 100. Their intention is to go to uni afterwards. vocational - students study basic subjects and are trained to become blue collar workers. Bakers, car mechanics, barbers, shop assistants, chefs etc etc. technical - 1 year longer than the above ones, more subjects and better training to become skilled professionals, e.g., accountants, hotel managers, dental technicians etc. As far as I know, there is no such division in US. All students go to the same type of school. Is it true? |
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Post by jeanne on Oct 20, 2015 23:39:33 GMT 1
No, Bonobo, it is not true that all American kids go to the same type of school. We also have vocational schools.
All students (unless they cannot learn in that setting because of severe learning or physical disabilities, or because they may be a danger to the other students) are entitled to go to their local high school. These schools offer college prep courses and business courses. They also, by law, are obligated to offer education to students with cognitive disabilities, and must offer them appropriate courses of study.
Other students may apply to attend vocational schools. In my state, standards have been raised over the course of the years to ensure that these vocational schools do not become "dumping grounds" for poorly performing students with no other options. Currently, students must meet certain standards to be accepted at these schools, and are expected to perform well in their academic subjects as well as their vocational subjects. Sure, some of the students may be on the "tough" side, but if their behavior is not up to par, they will be asked to leave the school.
In my state, vocational schools are regional, that is, they draw students from several surrounding school districts. [The vocational school near my home has a culinary course which operates a cafe open to the public, and it is a favorite place for people to go for lunch, receiving rave reviews!]
In addition to the above described high schools, there are also what are known as "alternative schools." These schools, serving small numbers of students, are for those kids who just cannot seem to perform in a traditional school. They may have trouble interacting socially, they may have been in trouble with the law, or they may just "hate school" and had absentee issues. They just need a setting different from the traditional one. Classes may consist of only a handful of students.
Of course, all these schools are public schools, that is, they are supported by the taxpayers' dollars. Private schools are a whole other story! Parents must pay a lot of money to send their kids to private schools and the schools are not under most of the state laws which dictate what and how they must teach.
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 21, 2015 20:57:22 GMT 1
Jeanne, thank you so much for clarifying the issue. My belief about US education was so stereotypical. I just cannot forget the Hollywood film "Christine" about a possessed car which kills people. The main character goes to a high school where he is bullied by schoolmates. Their behaviour has always reminded me of Polish vocational school students. My mother who was also a teacher in technical and vocational schools had a heart attack in class in 1970s and then went to a sanatorium for 2 months. That was a real trauma for us and I will never forget it. Christine 1983 Bullying and fighting at 10.15 It does look like a vocational school, indeed. |
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Post by jeanne on Oct 21, 2015 22:22:33 GMT 1
I'm sure bullying like that portrayed in "Christine" does occur in some places in the US. Keep in mind that the schools I am speaking about are located in semi-rural towns about 30 miles from Boston. Inner city schools around my area and in other areas of the US probably still do have this type of bullying.
HOWEVER, progress has been made controlling such bullying since the 1980's when the film was made. After many unfortunate incidents of students who were bullied taking their own lives, laws have been passed making bullying a crime. Bullies can be and indeed are being prosecuted for actions like those in the movie. Awareness of the problem has greatly increased in schools and society in general, and the seriousness of the crime recognized.
That being said, it is also true that now, especially in high schools, bullying has now become "cyber-bullying", taking place mostly on social media and via the internet. While also illegal, this form of bullying is harder to be detected by adults because it can't immediately be seen, but it's effects are no less devastating for those who are the object of it.
Cyber-bullying can consist of derogatory or slanderous comments posted on line, photo-shopped images, obscene images, and sexting.
Bonobo, are you telling us that your mother's heart attack was brought on by the behavior of her students? How awful! Was it bullying between students...or bullying against their teacher??
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 23, 2015 22:04:49 GMT 1
1 I'm sure bullying like that portrayed in "Christine" does occur in some places in the US. Keep in mind that the schools I am speaking about are located in semi-rural towns about 30 miles from Boston. Inner city schools around my area and in other areas of the US probably still do have this type of bullying. 2 HOWEVER, progress has been made controlling such bullying since the 1980's when the film was made. After many unfortunate incidents of students who were bullied taking their own lives, laws have been passed making bullying a crime. Bullies can be and indeed are being prosecuted for actions like those in the movie. Awareness of the problem has greatly increased in schools and society in general, and the seriousness of the crime recognized. 3 Bonobo, are you telling us that your mother's heart attack was brought on by the behavior of her students? How awful! Was it bullying between students...or bullying against their teacher?? 1 Yes, urban areas are always more patological than rural ones. What a shame, I live in Krakow..... 2 Good it is prosecuted as a crime. Some tough guys will think twice before they act. 3 I never learnt it. When we saw her again, it was a taboo topic for us, kids. Sorry. |
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Post by jeanne on Oct 25, 2015 22:06:03 GMT 1
3 I never learnt it. When we saw her again, it was a taboo topic for us, kids. Sorry. Back when you were a child, and certainly when I was a child, parents did not believe their children needed to know everything about what they were thinking or feeling as much as some seem to now-a-days. Just the fact that your mother would not speak about it indicates how horrible an experience it was for her. My parents, particularly my mother, felt she had to "protect" us kids from knowing certain things so that we wouldn't be worried/anxious about them. Of course, I always knew when she was hiding some element of life, or neglecting to be totally truthful with me, and that knowing caused me even greater anxiety! Not that I think parents should share all details with their children, but some degree of transparency is called for regarding occurrences that affect family life. I always tried to be forthright and truthful with my children about family matters that may not be pleasant, but which they needed to understand and see as part of the reality of our lives. |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 7, 2015 23:50:14 GMT 1
3 I never learnt it. When we saw her again, it was a taboo topic for us, kids. Sorry. 1 Back when you were a child, and certainly when I was a child, parents did not believe their children needed to know everything about what they were thinking or feeling as much as some seem to now-a-days. 2 Just the fact that your mother would not speak about it indicates how horrible an experience it was for her. 3 My parents, particularly my mother, felt she had to "protect" us kids from knowing certain things so that we wouldn't be worried/anxious about them. Of course, I always knew when she was hiding some element of life, or neglecting to be totally truthful with me, and that knowing caused me even greater anxiety! 4 Not that I think parents should share all details with their children, but some degree of transparency is called for regarding occurrences that affect family life. I always tried to be forthright and truthful with my children about family matters that may not be pleasant, but which they needed to understand and see as part of the reality of our lives. 1 Yes, my parents told us virtually nothing. We had to learn about life from books. 2 Yes, I suppose it was life or death issue. 3 The same with my parents. Strangely, this type of behaviour passed onto me and today I never tell my wife any bad news, unless she finds out and I have to. Once I had a crash and kept it to myself. But a stupid police officer called to get more details and my wife learnt everything. I got hell. 4 I try to change my character and am more open with kids. But never in my wife`s presence! |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 8, 2015 0:09:07 GMT 1
I love playing jokes on my Polish students. They seem to like it, too, when a crazy teacher tries to dissipate the usual boredom prevailing in a typical Polish school.
E.g., when they ask me about their test results, I allow them to guess their marks (A-F). If they guess correctly, I confirm. If not, I tell them to wait till the next day.
I am also quite open with my students. As a form teacher, I am required to run one lesson on "upbringing" issues per week. At the beginning of each school year, I ask my students to write down topics they would like to discuss in class. So, so far we have discussed death penalty, abortion, in vitro, gay marriages, pedophilia, sexual preferences, teenage sex, addictions, war in Ukraine, Polish politics, especially elections, happinness in life, violence and aggression, emigration from Poland, immigration to Poland, Islam in Europe, best jobs, university choices, occultism, life after death, God, faith, 10 things which you will never accept in your partner, 10 things which you will barely accept in your partner,Chopin competition, etc etc.
Can American high school teachers discuss some of these issues with students?
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Nov 10, 2015 23:07:53 GMT 1
You can talk about anything you want until someone feels "uncomfortable" and decides to report you to the administrators. This video sums it up nicely.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 10, 2015 23:56:57 GMT 1
1 You can talk about anything you want until someone feels "uncomfortable" and decides to report you to the administrators. 2 This video sums it up nicely. 1. Then what happens? One week suspension? 2. Political correctness can be detrimental, indeed, if it is pushed to such absurd levels. However, the basic principle once underlying it was "nobody is left behind," I suppose. I think it was/is a good one. You are a better life fighter if you know that others don`t flush you down the toilet because of things which you have no real influence on. |
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Post by jeanne on Nov 11, 2015 0:18:08 GMT 1
I am also quite open with my students. As a form teacher, I am required to run one lesson on "upbringing" issues per week. At the beginning of each school year, I ask my students to write down topics they would like to discuss in class. So, so far we have discussed death penalty, abortion, in vitro, gay marriages, pedophilia, sexual preferences, teenage sex, addictions, war in Ukraine, Polish politics, especially elections, happinness in life, violence and aggression, emigration from Poland, immigration to Poland, Islam in Europe, best jobs, university choices, occultism, life after death, God, faith, 10 things which you will never accept in your partner, 10 things which you will barely accept in your partner,Chopin competition, etc etc. Can American high school teachers discuss some of these issues with students? Most of these topics can be discussed from a factual perspective (what is it? What do the students think are the implications?). Teachers are not allowed to voice opinions on them, exceptions would be violence and aggression. Discussing the topics of qualities acceptable or not acceptable in a partner would be something that could possibly be covered in a Health class or some similar setting. |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 11, 2015 1:32:47 GMT 1
Teachers are not allowed to voice opinions on them, As Poland is 25 years behind US, I may still voice my opinion on discussed subjects. I do it at the end of discussion, after my students. Luckily, my typical stance is centre, so my opinion usually doesn`t clash with my students`. There was one exception though. We discussed Smolensk air crash and most of my students stated in the poll that they believed it had been an assassination. I was so surprised that I even took a photo of the poll result. |
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Post by jeanne on Nov 11, 2015 1:39:26 GMT 1
Teachers are not allowed to voice opinions on them, As Poland is 25 years behind US, I may still voice my opinion on discussed subjects. I do it at the end of discussion, after my students. Yes, probably Am teachers could voice their opinions 25 years ago. In fact I remember some of my high school teachers being VERY opinionated! There was a man (history teacher) who was adamant that women should NOT be paid the same as men for doing the same job because he said, "Women don't have a family to support like men do."  |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 11, 2015 1:57:13 GMT 1
As Poland is 25 years behind US, I may still voice my opinion on discussed subjects. I do it at the end of discussion, after my students. 1 Yes, probably Am teachers could voice their opinions 25 years ago. 2 In fact I remember some of my high school teachers being VERY opinionated! There was a man (history teacher) who was adamant that women should NOT be paid the same as men for doing the same job because he said, "Women don't have a family to support like men do." 1 Nice. 2 He was completely wrong. It is not about supporting the family, but about taking a maternity leave which costs the employer a lot of money. It is natural he/she must deduct those losses from woman`s earnings. |
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