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Post by Bonobo on May 20, 2016 22:52:19 GMT 1
To begin with - this article was published in the media controlled by Ivana Trump`s husband.  Bill Clinton Declares War on Poland
Who on Team Clinton thought offending a close American ally—and 10 million Polish Americans—was a good idea?
By John R. Schindler • 05/18/16 4:30pm
Former President Bill Clinton campaigns for his wife, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, as he speaks during the Howard County Democratic party��s pre-primary pancake breakfast at the United Auto Workers Local 685 Hall on April 30, 2016 in Kokomo, Indiana. Presidential candidates continue to campaign across the state leading up to Indiana's primary day on Tuesday.
However, even the pros drop the ball sometimes, and Mr. Clinton created a needless controversy last Friday at a campaign stop for his wife where he raked Poland and Hungary over the coals for their alleged lack of democracy. His comments were scathing, noting the countries, both NATO allies, owe their current freedom to the United States, which defeated their Soviet occupier in the Cold War. Mr. Clinton went further, however, alleging Poland and Hungary find “democracy is too much trouble” and “want Putin-like leadership, ‘just give me an authoritarian dictatorship and keep the foreigners out’…sound familiar?”
The exact role former President Bill Clinton plays in his wife’s presidential campaign is sometimes difficult to pin down. He has never excelled at keeping a low profile—it’s difficult to imagine Mr. Clinton as a retiring, camera-shy First Gentleman come January—and it’s long been obvious he’s a lot more popular with most of the Democratic base than his wife.
This explains why Hillary Clinton at times publicly offers her husband big jobs in her putative administration. Last weekend she indicated Bill would be in charge of getting our economy going again. “My husband, who I’m going to put in charge of revitalizing the economy, ’cause you know he knows how to do it,” Ms. Clinton told an audience in Kentucky. What exactly that means is subject to interpretation. Will Bill Clinton head up the new Department of the American Economy next year? How is that different from the existing Department of Commerce?
Details aside, Ms. Clinton needs all the help she can get on the campaign trail, as evidenced by her loss in Oregon and squeaker of a victory on Tuesday in Kentucky, where she beat out Senator Bernie Sanders by half a percent of Democratic voters, despite a big ad buy and a hard campaign push in the Bluegrass State, and despite the fact that she beat Barack Obama in the 2008 primary there by 35 percent. That Ms. Clinton is having considerable difficulty defeating a 74-year-old socialist who represents a state with two-tenths of a percent of the U.S. population does not bode well for her chances in November.
Therefore, Bill the political maestro is on call to help, and few can doubt that Hillary generally benefits from his public appearances, which recall for many voters a happier time—the Clinton era of the 1990s, when the economy was much better and the country overall seemed a happier and safer place than today. For the Democratic faithful, Bill Clinton is a big draw and his wife has no better one to call on.More: observer.com/2016/05/bill-clinton-declares-war-on-poland/     Many more: dziennikzwiazkowy.com/chicago/wizyta-hillary-clinton-w-chicago-w-cieniu-protestow-polonii-zobacz-zdjecia-wideo/How funny. |
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Post by jeanne on May 20, 2016 23:09:51 GMT 1
No more Clintons as President...one was enough!  |
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Post by Bonobo on May 20, 2016 23:49:00 GMT 1
No more Clintons as President...one was enough!
US Embassy in Warsaw distances itself from Clinton comments
20.05.2016 10:14
The US Embassy in Warsaw has distanced itself from earlier comments by former President Bill Clinton who recently commented on the “Putin-like dictatorship” in Poland.
“Please note, that only statements by representatives of the US administration represent the official position of the United States,” read a tweet by the US embassy in Warsaw issued on Thursday.
Talking to reporters after the ceremony at Monte Cassino in Italy earlier this week, Polish President Duda was asked to comment on former US President Bill Clinton’s remarks in which be expressed the view that “Poland and Hungary – two countries that would not be free but for the United States and the long Cold War – have now decided this democracy is too much trouble”.
Clinton added: “They [Poland and Hungary] want Putin-like dictatorships”. President Duda said that as a former president, Bill Clinton should be well-versed in current developments, adding that “he has probably let himself be carried away by emotions surrounding his wife’s election campaign”.- See more at: www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/253593,US-Embassy-in-Warsaw-distances-itself-from-Clinton-comments#sthash.pPUIyuNd.dpuf |
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Post by jeanne on May 21, 2016 0:13:03 GMT 1
Clinton added: “They [Poland and Hungary] want Putin-like dictatorships”. President Duda said that as a former president, Bill Clinton should be well-versed in current developments, adding that “he has probably let himself be carried away by emotions surrounding his wife’s election campaign”. [/i] - See more at: www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/253593,US-Embassy-in-Warsaw-distances-itself-from-Clinton-comments#sthash.pPUIyuNd.dpuf[/quote] President Duda is being too, too kind to Bill Clinton. |
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Post by Bonobo on May 21, 2016 21:45:32 GMT 1
President Duda is being too, too kind to Bill Clinton. But the Master of Puppets wasn`t - he suggested Clinton requires treatment. The man who procured blowjob dares to criticize Poland?  |
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2016 17:50:21 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2016 18:06:46 GMT 1
I hope that you can open this link of the Dutch National Broadcast corporation.
programma.vpro.nl/buitenhof/afleveringen/2016/buitenhof-22-mei---joodse-erfpachtgelden---ttip---clinton.html
Click at "De strijd van Hillary Clinton". It is an English language interview with Hillary-expert Kim Ghattas, BBC-reporter in Washington and author of the book ‘A Journey with Hillary Clinton’.
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2016 18:12:18 GMT 1
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Post by pjotr on May 22, 2016 18:14:43 GMT 1
Jaga wrote on the other Forum about this subject:
My family in Poland is very upset about how current Polish government is acting. Bill Clinton just wants to bring democracy back to Poland....
It is good that the US is concerned about the new Polish government that breaks the law.
"Declaring war on Poland" - it too big of the word....where is the war? Why is it bad to talk about problems which are concerning.
My (Pieter's) reply to her was:
Tactical and strategic the remarks of Bill Clinton were not that wise, but I agree with Jaga. I hear the same concern from Polish family members and friends in Poland Jaga. They share your families views. Maybe we are polarized amongst ourselves on this Forum and other Polish culture forums, between Polish government (PiS) supporters and opponents.
Bill Clinton should show some diplomatic, political, geo-political and ideological skills. You should know how and when to speak like that. First win the elections and than speak out. Now you can lose the conservative, rightwing vote of the Polish Americans who are traditional Democratic voters. That is all I want to say about it. Politics is a tactical, strategic game, like a game of chess, doing business on an advanced level and etc. He shouldn't endanger the campaign of his wife.
Finally I want to say that I hope that the person who has the best interest of the Americans, the USA and thus American interests in mind and who has pragmatic and realistic solutions for problems America is facing right now, may win the elections.
In my opinion, Hilary, despite her and Bills mistakes, will be a good president, because of her experiance in the White House, and as state secretary of the Obama administration. She will receive votes of Republicans who hate, dislike or distrust Donald Trump, the traditional support base of the Democratic party and maybe independent voters who believe that with Donald Trump America will go into the wrong direction.
It seems that Donald Trump is tuning down his tone and has reconcilled himself with Fox News and Megan Kelly. I don't know if that will gain him extra votes?
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Post by Bonobo on May 22, 2016 22:52:06 GMT 1
The PiS government has gone to war with everybody who doesn`t agree with them. They follow the rule: if you aren`t with us, you are against us.
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Post by pjotr on May 23, 2016 18:50:18 GMT 1
How far will this administration go Bonobo? Will they be able to cleanse all the national, regional and local authority bodies (institutions, ministries, muncipalities, province offices, universities, schools) from opposition people or persons who are critical and who do not 100% agrees with them? What kind of regime could you compare the present Polish government with? The USA during the time of McCarthyism from 1950 to 1956, Portugal and Spain during the fifties and sixties (Franco's era), some Southern-American states (Cuba, Venesuela or chile under Pinochet?), or South-Africa with it's one party ANC rule? (or the South-Africa of the Apartheid era. It doesn't allowed or liked black, colored or white opposition from anti-apartheid activists). Is Poland heading towards the Russian or Hungarian system and/or situation? Is Putin an example despite the official opposition and critique of Russia?
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Post by pjotr on May 23, 2016 19:10:28 GMT 1
I don't care about these Polish American demonstrators in Chicago. What do they know about Poland? They are Americans and have a distorted view about Poland. They have a simplistic, American conservative, black and white, nationalistic and chauvinist view of Poland. They are entitled to their views and opinions, but who in Europe cares about them. Yes, a majority can vote a political party to power. But that doesn't mean that the government of that party is right. The name Law and Justice is ironical today. Maybe some voters for PiS regret their voice. maybe Poland is as polarized as Austria? Maybe PiS has learned from it's mistakes in the past (2005-2006). Today it has more power, and isn't bothered by Coalition partners like the agrarian populist Self-Defense of the Republic of Poland and nationalist League of Polish Families. Solidarna Polska comes from PiS. I wonder how the relationship between PiS members of the cabinet and Solidarna Polska will be today? How is Civic Platform doing today Bo? What is the main opposition party or block (front of parties) today Bo?
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Post by pjotr on May 23, 2016 19:29:17 GMT 1
I respect Polish Americans, but only Poles in Poland have influence on the situation there. American politics are different than Polish politics and European politics in general. The system is different, the political parties and their ideologies are different, the people and the cultures are different. Polish Americans are Americanized and in general understand little about Poland. Jeanne and my American cousins are very informed due to these two forums ( in Jeanne's case) and because they speak Polish, have Polish family and regularly visit Poland in my cousins case. But even they have little knowledge about Poland, because they weren't born and raised there, do not live and work there, and don't follow Polish media and thus aren't part of the Polish society. It's the same with me and other (even 100% Polish) diaspora! We know about our own societies, democracies and nations and we are interested, (long distance) connected to Poland, but we are foreigners. We try to learn and absorb as much of Polish news, information and knowledge as we can, but it will be never enough to understand Poland. That's why I was irritated about these simplistic, Polish American demonstrators in Chicago! Go demonstrate for Donald Trump, that's your candidate! Poland is not your concern, nor your country.
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Post by pjotr on May 23, 2016 19:42:01 GMT 1
It's ofcourse their democratic right to demonstrate in Chicago with Polish and American flags. You saw it Bonobo, but we're they seen in Poland! Or did only the government consoled press showed them?
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Post by Bonobo on May 23, 2016 20:07:49 GMT 1
How far will this administration go Bonobo? Will they be able to cleanse all the national, regional and local authority bodies (institutions, ministries, muncipalities, province offices, universities, schools) from opposition people or persons who are critical and who do not 100% agrees with them? What kind of regime could you compare the present Polish government with? The USA during the time of McCarthyism from 1950 to 1956, Portugal and Spain during the fifties and sixties (Franco's era), some Southern-American states (Cuba, Venesuela or chile under Pinochet?), or South-Africa with it's one party ANC rule? (or the South-Africa of the Apartheid era. It doesn't allowed or liked black, colored or white opposition from anti-apartheid activists). Is Poland heading towards the Russian or Hungarian system and/or situation? Is Putin an example despite the official opposition and critique of Russia? Nobody knows how far they will go because they are unpredictable. Comparing is futile at this stage, historians warn against such attempts, first we have to live the history till the end (next elections when PiS loses, it might take some time) and then we can compare. |
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Post by Bonobo on May 23, 2016 20:14:33 GMT 1
I don't care about these Polish American demonstrators in Chicago. What do they know about Poland? They are Americans and have a distorted view about Poland. They have a simplistic, American conservative, black and white, nationalistic and chauvinist view of Poland. They are entitled to their views and opinions, but who in Europe cares about them. Yes, a majority can vote a political party to power. But that doesn't mean that the government of that party is right. The name Law and Justice is ironical today. Maybe some voters for PiS regret their voice. maybe Poland is as polarized as Austria? Maybe PiS has learned from it's mistakes in the past (2005-2006). Today it has more power, and isn't bothered by Coalition partners like the agrarian populist Self-Defense of the Republic of Poland and nationalist League of Polish Families. Solidarna Polska comes from PiS. I wonder how the relationship between PiS members of the cabinet and Solidarna Polska will be today? How is Civic Platform doing today Bo? What is the main opposition party or block (front of parties) today Bo? US Polonia doesn`t matter much, actually. They aren`t able to create strong groups of interest which might exert real influence on politicians. They are too much absorbed in petty fights between each other. That is why Clinton can tell them: Pocałujcie mnie w dupę!! and nothing will happen. Opposition parties aren`t doing well. They are in defence, don`t know how to regain voters` trust. Today`s poll gave PiS almost 40% support. |
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Post by Bonobo on May 23, 2016 20:16:46 GMT 1
It's ofcourse their democratic right to demonstrate in Chicago with Polish and American flags. You saw it Bonobo, but we're they seen in Poland! Or did only the government consoled press showed them? I don`t know about Poland, I ran into them accidentally while looking for pics. |
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Post by jeanne on May 23, 2016 20:52:53 GMT 1
I respect Polish Americans, but only Poles in Poland have influence on the situation there. American politics are different than Polish politics and European politics in general. The system is different, the political parties and their ideologies are different, the people and the cultures are different. Polish Americans are Americanized and in general understand little about Poland. Jeanne and my American cousins are very informed due to these two forums ( in Jeanne's case) and because they speak Polish, have Polish family and regularly visit Poland in my cousins case. But even they have little knowledge about Poland, because they weren't born and raised there, do not live and work there, and don't follow Polish media and thus aren't part of the Polish society. It's the same with me and other (even 100% Polish) diaspora! We know about our own societies, democracies and nations and we are interested, (long distance) connected to Poland, but we are foreigners. We try to learn and absorb as much of Polish news, information and knowledge as we can, but it will be never enough to understand Poland. That's why I was irritated about these simplistic, Polish American demonstrators in Chicago! Go demonstrate for Donald Trump, that's your candidate! Poland is not your concern, nor your country. Pieter, I think this demonstration in Chicago by Polish Americans is more about U.S. politics than Polish government/politics.We (U.S.)are in the midst of a very contentious presidential campaign here, and these demonstrators are using Bill Clinton's comments about Poland as an excuse to bash his wife, who expects to be the nominee of the Democratic Party. They are demonstrating to show their displeasure at Bill's comments as a caution to Hillary that involving her husband in her potential administration is not a welcome idea by many. There are many of these Americans of Polish descent in the mid-west, and many still have strong family ties to Poland and are quite knowledgeable about what is going on there, but the point of their demonstration, as I see it, is to focus on U.S. campaign issues, not primarily Polish government issues. Jeanne |
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Post by pjotr on May 24, 2016 0:06:06 GMT 1
There are many of these Americans of Polish descent in the mid-west, and many still have strong family ties to Poland and are quite knowledgeable about what is going on there, but the point of their demonstration, as I see it, is to focus on U.S. campaign issues, not primarily Polish government issues. Jeanne I have learned something today. That there are Polish-Americans with strong family ties to Poland and knowledge about Poland today. I am glad that you reacted. Maybe I look from the perspective from other diaspora or ethnic groups in the US with European heritage. I know that Dutch Americans have a distorted, romantic, folkloristic image of the Netherlands which looks like pre-war or the Netherlands in the fifties or sixties. Maybe there are more 20th century and even 21the century Polish Americans with direct Polish ties like Jaga, and my American cousins, of whom both parents were Polish immigrants, and who spoke Polish at home (English outside). The father of my cousins was very traditional conservative Roman-Catholic and Polish. So the Polish culture and language continued to exist in that Polish-American family, and they visited my Polish grandparents and Polish uncles and aunts a lot. Both cousins speak Polish, can read Polish and write Polish. But I think they are a minority within the Polish American community. Most of them must have Polish ancesters like Great grandparents, great great grandparents or grandparents. Many Polish Americans only speak American English and their only Polish connection is their Polish name and the Polonia (the organisations of Polish Americans). How about you Jeanne? Thank you for correcting me somewhat. Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by pjotr on May 24, 2016 0:09:51 GMT 1
I don't care about these Polish American demonstrators in Chicago. What do they know about Poland? They are Americans and have a distorted view about Poland. They have a simplistic, American conservative, black and white, nationalistic and chauvinist view of Poland. They are entitled to their views and opinions, but who in Europe cares about them. Yes, a majority can vote a political party to power. But that doesn't mean that the government of that party is right. The name Law and Justice is ironical today. Maybe some voters for PiS regret their voice. maybe Poland is as polarized as Austria? Maybe PiS has learned from it's mistakes in the past (2005-2006). Today it has more power, and isn't bothered by Coalition partners like the agrarian populist Self-Defense of the Republic of Poland and nationalist League of Polish Families. Solidarna Polska comes from PiS. I wonder how the relationship between PiS members of the cabinet and Solidarna Polska will be today? How is Civic Platform doing today Bo? What is the main opposition party or block (front of parties) today Bo? US Polonia doesn`t matter much, actually. They aren`t able to create strong groups of interest which might exert real influence on politicians. They are too much absorbed in petty fights between each other. That is why Clinton can tell them: Pocałujcie mnie w dupę!! and nothing will happen. Opposition parties aren`t doing well. They are in defence, don`t know how to regain voters` trust. Today`s poll gave PiS almost 40% support. That is sad news, the Polish democracy isn't balanced. I hope that the PiS regime will not built a strong propaganda machine and infiltrate all institutions with PiS militants, followers and thus loyalists. I hope that the Polish opposition will manage to reform and rebuilt itself and come out of it's downfall again as vibrant, modern, realistic and attractive political parties for the Polish voters. |
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Post by jeanne on May 24, 2016 0:49:01 GMT 1
I have learned something today. That there are Polish-Americans with strong family ties to Poland and knowledge about Poland today. I am glad that you reacted. Maybe I look from the perspective from other diaspora or ethnic groups in the US with European heritage. I know that Dutch Americans have a distorted, romantic, folkloristic image of the Netherlands which looks like pre-war or the Netherlands in the fifties or sixties. Maybe there are more 20th century and even 21the century Polish Americans with direct Polish ties like Jaga, and my American cousins, of whom both parents were Polish immigrants, and who spoke Polish at home (English outside). The father of my cousins was very traditional conservative Roman-Catholic and Polish. So the Polish culture and language continued to exist in that Polish-American family, and they visited my Polish grandparents and Polish uncles and aunts a lot. Both cousins speak Polish, can read Polish and write Polish. But I think they are a minority within the Polish American community. Most of them must have Polish ancesters like Great grandparents, great great grandparents or grandparents. Many Polish Americans only speak American English and their only Polish connection is their Polish name and the Polonia (the organisations of Polish Americans). How about you Jeanne? Thank you for correcting me somewhat. Cheers, Pieter Hi Pieter, I didn't mean to correct you, but rather just point out the presence of many Polish Americans with strong ties to Poland...I know that you are aware of Jaga's knowledge of Poland, and there are many more in the U.S. with similar knowledge. Plus, there are actually many Polish nationals here. In the early years of this 21st century, before the economy in Poland had progressed, many, many young Poles came here to work and make money to send/take home to their families in Poland. Many of them found ways to stay here and live more or less permanently, so they are also a factor. I do, of course, agree with your comments about many Polish Americans having a romanticized view of Poland and not really being aware of the situation there (I actually consider myself to be part of this group, but I am trying to learn more...), but that is certainly not the case with all. The U.S. has a huge population, and it's hard to generalize about any particular group! But really the main point of my comment was that I don't think we should be looking at the Chicago protestors as intending to comment on the state of the government in Poland, but their main purpose in demonstrating was to make a statement against Hillary Clinton as a presidential candidate by way of criticizing her husband and his comments about Poland.They saw Bill's comments as an opportunity to use their ethnicity to attack Hillary. Politics in the U.S. is a messy, complicated business! Jeanne |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 25, 2016 20:42:00 GMT 1
Apart from Am Poles, also native Russians are working hard to damage Hilary`s chances in order to promote Trump. With his vows about new isolationism, he seems a perfect President for Russians as they expect to have a free hand in the areas where they often clash with Americans. edition.cnn.com/2016/07/24/politics/robby-mook-russia-dnc-emails-trump/Philadelphia (CNN)Hillary Clinton's campaign manager is alleging that Russian hackers are leaking Democratic National Committee emails critical of Bernie Sanders in an effort to help Donald Trump win the election in November. [...] |
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Post by jeanne on Jul 25, 2016 20:58:12 GMT 1
This is only the beginning of the mud-slinging and dirty tricks that will happen on both sides in this campaign...stay tuned for much more happening until the election in November...
Have I mentioned before that I hate politics?
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 26, 2016 15:52:56 GMT 1
Have I mentioned before that I hate politics? Yes, many times. |
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