Post by Bonobo on Jan 22, 2017 14:17:10 GMT 1
British doctors prefer to move to other countries so the situation in the public health care in Britain is alarming. Leaders are thinking of bringing doctors from other countries, including Poland.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/nhs-recruit-hundreds-gps-poland-lithuania-greece/
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/753146/NHS-england-poland-lithuania-greece-GPs-recruitment-scheme-doctors-crisis-A-E
Comments by angry Brits:
Ivan Ratnayake 13 Jan 2017 2:32AM
I'm a GP. Let me explain the problem. The population is going up: No surprises there. Any GCSE Student can see that trend over the past few years -and guess what - its set to continue. The funding is going down. 90% of all consultations with a Dr in the NHS are made with a GP. There are more GP consultations now compared to 5 years ago than there were new A&E consultations in the past 1 year.
I don't know how to say this, but I can only see 1 patient at a time. Since the time of Hippocrates, I'm not aware of any other way of doing it. A few years ago, my patients might wait a few days to see me, now they book in advance up to 3 weeks ahead. Really sorry. There's only one of me.
Here's a really radical thought: Call me biased, but if I was in charge, I would try looking after the work force - now there's a novel thought, eh? The Government + Hunt denies there's any problem with GP retention/recruitment. We are told to work harder because obviously that's the problem isn't it: So the Press and the Government denigrate the Medical workforce we have. Treated like they're waste matter on the proverbial shoe. And at the same time fuel hopelessly unrealistic expectations from the service that can't be delivered, which adds to the population's angst, because perish the thought, members of the public might possibly have to wait. Expecting a Rolls Royce service while paying Robin Reliant prices. Smart.
How about the pay and hours and Saturday working debacle, since Doctors clearly don't work weekends already do they? So lets continue to treat Doctors like dirt, watch as they vote with their feet and quit the country or the Profession and then spend more money recruiting Doctors from abroad (who are unfamiliar with the language, customs and people) than it would have cost to retain the Medical Staff you've driven out, because its a swear word to reward those people doing the work and make their conditions more bearable.
How many brain cells do you need to work that one out. You couldn't make it up. The Government could not manage to get out of a wet paper bag with a hole in and a sign saying this way. Oh and being led by a Health Secretary, which if the papers are to be believed, takes his own family to A&E instead of using the appropriate out of hours service but then tells the population that they shouldn't be doing what he's doing. Is this for real? Please tell me someone is making this up. Please? Because if I submitted this as a piece of creative writing it would be slung out for being too fanciful
So lets continue to lay the blame at the feet of Doctors. Don't train enough Doctors, then when they are qualified treat them like dirt and pay them an insult for their years of training and dedication. Then, change the pension system as well (although I appreciate this wasn't done with Doctors in mind, so I grant you that one), so as not to make it cost effective to work beyond a certain age - and so you lose the most experienced heads just when you need them most. Ensure that the stress and working conditions are so dire that no one who has a choice, will work full time or stay. Ensure that you introduce a "market economy" and then get surprised that many Doctors get attracted by better pay and working conditions in other countries. I'm a GP Trainer and 2 of our most recent Trainees have 1) gone to Australia and 2) joined the Pharmaceutical Industry.
I am an immigrant to this country and have now been here 47 years. I have had all my education here and benefited from everything this country has to offer and love my life here and love this country. But, how the Government (and I mean all the Governments in recent years) has got away with "investing" if you could call it that so little into the health of this nation in comparison with every other comparable Western country - Germany, France, USA, (you name practically all the others) etc is worse than disgraceful. This is tantamount to the most shocking abuse and manipulation of this nation's people whose fundamental culture essentially simply puts up with it in an uncomplaining and civilised manner, without creating too much of a fuss and just takes it on the chin, quite apart from the maltreatment and neglect of the generation that fought and died for this country is in my opinion a crime against humanity. The perpetrators of this shouldn't just be hanging their heads in shame, they should be hanging.
lucy smith 12 Jan 2017 6:38PM
Im a GP trainee in Lincolnshire, about to finish. I will be staying here as i like the area, but i know for a fact that i will not get offered a salary anywhere near this. 90k is more in line with a partnership, but with none of the partnership responsibilities. Why not offer this deal to locally trained doctors too? Why are we paying bigger salaries for only foreign trained doctors? As a UK trained doctor I will get paid less for the same job. Madness.
John Glasspool 12 Jan 2017 3:53PM
As a GP who left the NHS prematurely, 2 + years ago, I can only say "Ha, Ha, Ha" x 200million. The lies that were told about us in the (mainly Tory) press are now coming home to roost. A lot of younger ones left for Canada, Aus & NZ where the money is better and there is less regulation. Look at your own GP's website. (If you still have a GP) and it will say there what they earned in the last year. A long way off the £100,000 trumpeted here and elsewhere. So now, Hunt and chums hope to burgle GPs from other Eastern European countries. (Remember the 1960s and the Asian GPs who came here?) But note: this "fabulous deal" has still only attracted a 50% fill-up rate. Also, bear in mind that, unless a particular doctor in Poland, say, has a family reason for coming here, you are largely going to get the "also rans" who can't make a good living in their own countries. I'm really pleased that these people will be offered an annual increment for staying: British GPs haven't seen a pay rise for over ten years now. There used to be a thing called "seniority payments" which encouraged older and more experienced doctors to stay on,but the government in their wisdom decided to scrap them!
It's actually going to amuse me greatly, to watch the DT, the DM and their readers screaming as things get worse. We are past a tipping point. May of you will end up having to pay privately for GP care. My solicitor charges c £300 per hour. Enjoy!
Silent Bystander
Why doesn't the Government recruit properly qualified doctors who speak English from the first world at those prices? Young doctors from Canada, Sth Africa, Australia and New Zealand for starters, would welcome the opportunity to live and work in the UK.
12 weeks training? Some of those foreign doctors would need to re-sit exams all over again and you would have to wonder how many would qualify under British standards. This is a travesty and a further insult to our hard working, often poorly paid and exceptionally trained doctors and a disincentive for UK students to study medicine. Remember that currently, we are not permitted to look behind the qualifications of EU trained doctors unleashed upon our health system.
Note, the recruitment drive starting in Lincolnshire. Isn't that where the English language is under threat due to the influx of certain EU migrants?
It is indeed horrifying to think that UK doctor numbers will plummet by 10,000 by 2020 and that so many of them have gone to work in Australia and New Zealand. Why not try to entice them back instead with a "generous relocation package"?
Just another poorly thought, knee jerk reaction. This wonderful nation is just being run into the ground with these sorts of decisions which seem to aim at putting British people last.
Pity those of us who will need to see a doctor in a hurry let alone one who can communicate to you in English.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/nhs-recruit-hundreds-gps-poland-lithuania-greece/
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/753146/NHS-england-poland-lithuania-greece-GPs-recruitment-scheme-doctors-crisis-A-E
Comments by angry Brits:
Ivan Ratnayake 13 Jan 2017 2:32AM
I'm a GP. Let me explain the problem. The population is going up: No surprises there. Any GCSE Student can see that trend over the past few years -and guess what - its set to continue. The funding is going down. 90% of all consultations with a Dr in the NHS are made with a GP. There are more GP consultations now compared to 5 years ago than there were new A&E consultations in the past 1 year.
I don't know how to say this, but I can only see 1 patient at a time. Since the time of Hippocrates, I'm not aware of any other way of doing it. A few years ago, my patients might wait a few days to see me, now they book in advance up to 3 weeks ahead. Really sorry. There's only one of me.
Here's a really radical thought: Call me biased, but if I was in charge, I would try looking after the work force - now there's a novel thought, eh? The Government + Hunt denies there's any problem with GP retention/recruitment. We are told to work harder because obviously that's the problem isn't it: So the Press and the Government denigrate the Medical workforce we have. Treated like they're waste matter on the proverbial shoe. And at the same time fuel hopelessly unrealistic expectations from the service that can't be delivered, which adds to the population's angst, because perish the thought, members of the public might possibly have to wait. Expecting a Rolls Royce service while paying Robin Reliant prices. Smart.
How about the pay and hours and Saturday working debacle, since Doctors clearly don't work weekends already do they? So lets continue to treat Doctors like dirt, watch as they vote with their feet and quit the country or the Profession and then spend more money recruiting Doctors from abroad (who are unfamiliar with the language, customs and people) than it would have cost to retain the Medical Staff you've driven out, because its a swear word to reward those people doing the work and make their conditions more bearable.
How many brain cells do you need to work that one out. You couldn't make it up. The Government could not manage to get out of a wet paper bag with a hole in and a sign saying this way. Oh and being led by a Health Secretary, which if the papers are to be believed, takes his own family to A&E instead of using the appropriate out of hours service but then tells the population that they shouldn't be doing what he's doing. Is this for real? Please tell me someone is making this up. Please? Because if I submitted this as a piece of creative writing it would be slung out for being too fanciful
So lets continue to lay the blame at the feet of Doctors. Don't train enough Doctors, then when they are qualified treat them like dirt and pay them an insult for their years of training and dedication. Then, change the pension system as well (although I appreciate this wasn't done with Doctors in mind, so I grant you that one), so as not to make it cost effective to work beyond a certain age - and so you lose the most experienced heads just when you need them most. Ensure that the stress and working conditions are so dire that no one who has a choice, will work full time or stay. Ensure that you introduce a "market economy" and then get surprised that many Doctors get attracted by better pay and working conditions in other countries. I'm a GP Trainer and 2 of our most recent Trainees have 1) gone to Australia and 2) joined the Pharmaceutical Industry.
I am an immigrant to this country and have now been here 47 years. I have had all my education here and benefited from everything this country has to offer and love my life here and love this country. But, how the Government (and I mean all the Governments in recent years) has got away with "investing" if you could call it that so little into the health of this nation in comparison with every other comparable Western country - Germany, France, USA, (you name practically all the others) etc is worse than disgraceful. This is tantamount to the most shocking abuse and manipulation of this nation's people whose fundamental culture essentially simply puts up with it in an uncomplaining and civilised manner, without creating too much of a fuss and just takes it on the chin, quite apart from the maltreatment and neglect of the generation that fought and died for this country is in my opinion a crime against humanity. The perpetrators of this shouldn't just be hanging their heads in shame, they should be hanging.
lucy smith 12 Jan 2017 6:38PM
Im a GP trainee in Lincolnshire, about to finish. I will be staying here as i like the area, but i know for a fact that i will not get offered a salary anywhere near this. 90k is more in line with a partnership, but with none of the partnership responsibilities. Why not offer this deal to locally trained doctors too? Why are we paying bigger salaries for only foreign trained doctors? As a UK trained doctor I will get paid less for the same job. Madness.
John Glasspool 12 Jan 2017 3:53PM
As a GP who left the NHS prematurely, 2 + years ago, I can only say "Ha, Ha, Ha" x 200million. The lies that were told about us in the (mainly Tory) press are now coming home to roost. A lot of younger ones left for Canada, Aus & NZ where the money is better and there is less regulation. Look at your own GP's website. (If you still have a GP) and it will say there what they earned in the last year. A long way off the £100,000 trumpeted here and elsewhere. So now, Hunt and chums hope to burgle GPs from other Eastern European countries. (Remember the 1960s and the Asian GPs who came here?) But note: this "fabulous deal" has still only attracted a 50% fill-up rate. Also, bear in mind that, unless a particular doctor in Poland, say, has a family reason for coming here, you are largely going to get the "also rans" who can't make a good living in their own countries. I'm really pleased that these people will be offered an annual increment for staying: British GPs haven't seen a pay rise for over ten years now. There used to be a thing called "seniority payments" which encouraged older and more experienced doctors to stay on,but the government in their wisdom decided to scrap them!
It's actually going to amuse me greatly, to watch the DT, the DM and their readers screaming as things get worse. We are past a tipping point. May of you will end up having to pay privately for GP care. My solicitor charges c £300 per hour. Enjoy!
Silent Bystander
Why doesn't the Government recruit properly qualified doctors who speak English from the first world at those prices? Young doctors from Canada, Sth Africa, Australia and New Zealand for starters, would welcome the opportunity to live and work in the UK.
12 weeks training? Some of those foreign doctors would need to re-sit exams all over again and you would have to wonder how many would qualify under British standards. This is a travesty and a further insult to our hard working, often poorly paid and exceptionally trained doctors and a disincentive for UK students to study medicine. Remember that currently, we are not permitted to look behind the qualifications of EU trained doctors unleashed upon our health system.
Note, the recruitment drive starting in Lincolnshire. Isn't that where the English language is under threat due to the influx of certain EU migrants?
It is indeed horrifying to think that UK doctor numbers will plummet by 10,000 by 2020 and that so many of them have gone to work in Australia and New Zealand. Why not try to entice them back instead with a "generous relocation package"?
Just another poorly thought, knee jerk reaction. This wonderful nation is just being run into the ground with these sorts of decisions which seem to aim at putting British people last.
Pity those of us who will need to see a doctor in a hurry let alone one who can communicate to you in English.