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Post by jeanne on Apr 14, 2017 21:36:30 GMT 1
I have just reread a novel which I read several times before in my 30's. It is a novel about the Holocaust, following a young Jewish woman from Vilno who eventually is sent to a camp, then escapes. Her entire family is wiped out by the Nazis except her young daughter whom she gave to a Christian family before she was sent to the camp.
Anyway, the main character's husband's first name was Stajoe. I cannot figure out how this name would be pronounced. The "j" really throws me off and also the vowels. Can you help me out?
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 22, 2017 20:22:22 GMT 1
Anyway, the main character's husband's first name was Stajoe. I cannot figure out how this name would be pronounced. The "j" really throws me off and also the vowels. Can you help me out? This isn`t a Polish name but if it is uttered according to Polish pronunciation, I can only guess that j is pronounced as y in such words as yellow yeti.  |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 23, 2017 12:01:21 GMT 1
Anyway, the main character's husband's first name was Stajoe. I cannot figure out how this name would be pronounced. The "j" really throws me off and also the vowels. Can you help me out? This isn`t a Polish name but if it is uttered according to Polish pronunciation, I can only guess that j is pronounced as y in such words as yellow yeti. Yes, that's what I thought, but what about the "oe" at the end? I keep wanting to say the long "o" sound like it would be in English, but that can't be right...or can it?? |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 23, 2017 12:15:56 GMT 1
This isn`t a Polish name but if it is uttered according to Polish pronunciation, I can only guess that j is pronounced as y in such words as yellow yeti. Yes, that's what I thought, but what about the "oe" at the end? I keep wanting to say the long "o" sound like it would be in English, but that can't be right...or can it?? Why long o ? In English it would be ou/eu like in toe. |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 24, 2017 1:11:50 GMT 1
Yes, that's what I thought, but what about the "oe" at the end? I keep wanting to say the long "o" sound like it would be in English, but that can't be right...or can it?? Why long o ? In English it would be ou/eu like in toe. Yes...and oe as in toe is the long o sound! But how would the oe sound in Polish?? |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 24, 2017 6:45:45 GMT 1
Yes...and oe as in toe is the long o sound! But how would the oe sound in Polish?? How come? bryt. (RP) IPA: /təʊ/, SAMPA: /t@U/ amer. IPA: /toʊ/, SAMPA: /toU/ In neither case there is long o. Normal. First you utter o, then e. |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 25, 2017 2:15:18 GMT 1
Yes...and oe as in toe is the long o sound! But how would the oe sound in Polish?? How come? bryt. (RP) IPA: /təʊ/, SAMPA: /t@U/ amer. IPA: /toʊ/, SAMPA: /toU/ In neither case there is long o. Normal. First you utter o, then e. This conversation is making my head spin... In English the o and the e together make the long o sound, that is, "o says its name." Have you not heard, "When two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking?" The vowel sound in the word "toe" is the long o sound. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 27, 2017 19:54:45 GMT 1
How come? bryt. (RP) IPA: /təʊ/, SAMPA: /t@U/ amer. IPA: /toʊ/, SAMPA: /toU/ In neither case there is long o. Normal. First you utter o, then e. This conversation is making my head spin... In English the o and the e together make the long o sound, that is, "o says its name." Have you not heard, "When two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking?" The vowel sound in the word "toe" is the long o sound. I am sorry for your poor head but I finally found out the reason for our misunderstanding. You refer to American phonetic transcription in which the sound in toe is called long o. I am accustomed to using the British system in which white is white and black is black  I mean that long o in the Br transcription appears in words like law, more, awe, while the sound in toe is a diphthong.
Long vowels
In the British English phonemic chart, long vowels are easy to recognise, because they have a colon (":") symbol after them. Some long vowels are basically longer versions of short vowels (like /ɪ/ and /i:/).
Long vowels in English:
/i:/ as in sheep
/u:/ as in boot
/ɜ:/ as in learn
/ɔ:/ as in door
/ɑ:/ as in car
Diphthongs
A diphthong is a two vowel sounds, one after the other. There is movement or "glide" between the two parts of the sound. For example, to say the /eɪ/ dipthong, like in the word "cake" (/keɪk/) first say /e/, then say /ɪ/ without stopping. Your mouth will move from the /e/ shape to the /ɪ/ shape. This is the "glide".
Diphthongs of English:
/ɪə/ as in beer
/eɪ/ as in same
/ʊə/ as in tour
/ɔɪ/ as in coin
/əʊ/ as in nose
/eə/ as in hair
/aɪ/ as in fly
/aʊ/ as in house
Go to the next page to learn about consonants
phonemicchart.com/what/index2.htmlPS. At uni, even American professors warned us against using the American system which they admitted to be unnecessarily complicated. |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 27, 2017 20:17:51 GMT 1
I am sorry for your poor head but I finally found out the reason for our misunderstanding. You refer to American phonetic transcription in which the sound in toe is called long o. I am accustomed to using the British system in which white is white and black is black I mean that long o in the Br transcription appears in words like law, more, awe, while the sound in toe is a diphthong.
Long vowels
In the British English phonemic chart, long vowels are easy to recognise, because they have a colon (":") symbol after them. Some long vowels are basically longer versions of short vowels (like /ɪ/ and /i:/).
Long vowels in English:
/i:/ as in sheep
/u:/ as in boot
/ɜ:/ as in learn
/ɔ:/ as in door
/ɑ:/ as in car
Diphthongs
A diphthong is a two vowel sounds, one after the other. There is movement or "glide" between the two parts of the sound. For example, to say the /eɪ/ dipthong, like in the word "cake" (/keɪk/) first say /e/, then say /ɪ/ without stopping. Your mouth will move from the /e/ shape to the /ɪ/ shape. This is the "glide".
Diphthongs of English:
/ɪə/ as in beer
/eɪ/ as in same
/ʊə/ as in tour
/ɔɪ/ as in coin
/əʊ/ as in nose
/eə/ as in hair
/aɪ/ as in fly
/aʊ/ as in house
Go to the next page to learn about consonants
phonemicchart.com/what/index2.htmlPS. At uni, even American professors warned us against using the American system which they admitted to be unnecessarily complicated. I'm glad you figured out the reason for our miscommunication...but, no offense to you and the British, but their system seems 'way more complicated than the American system!!  But I still don't have a straightforward answer to my original question of how one would pronounce "Stajoe." It was a Jewish name, so perhaps someone out there in Forum Land could help me out... |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 27, 2017 20:24:11 GMT 1
But I still don't have a straightforward answer to my original question of how one would pronounce "Stajoe." It was a Jewish name, so perhaps someone out there in Forum Land could help me out... The Net offers many possibilities ...... www.howtopronounce.com/stajoe/ |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 27, 2017 20:28:43 GMT 1
but, no offense to you and the British, but their system seems 'way more complicated than the American system!! You have used it all your life so you know it well. For a beginner, it is illogical, let`s be frank. How can a combination of two different vowels be called a long o? This is crazy... |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 27, 2017 21:11:48 GMT 1
but, no offense to you and the British, but their system seems 'way more complicated than the American system!! You have used it all your life so you know it well. For a beginner, it is illogical, let`s be frank. How can a combination of two different vowels be called a long o? This is crazy... The SOUND is long o...very simple...  |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 29, 2017 23:22:39 GMT 1
You have used it all your life so you know it well. For a beginner, it is illogical, let`s be frank. How can a combination of two different vowels be called a long o? This is crazy... The SOUND is long o...very simple... We had a funny discussion. |
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Post by jeanne on May 4, 2017 21:33:30 GMT 1
The SOUND is long o...very simple... We had a funny discussion. Rather...I'd call it an exercise in frustration! |
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Post by Bonobo on May 6, 2017 19:09:52 GMT 1
We had a funny discussion. Rather...I'd call it an exercise in frustration! No, after some frustration, we reached understanding and that`s what counts most. We may differ in opinion about two systems, but understanding each other is crucial. |
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Post by jeanne on May 6, 2017 21:19:53 GMT 1
Rather...I'd call it an exercise in frustration! No, after some frustration, we reached understanding and that`s what counts most. We may differ in opinion about two systems, but understanding each other is crucial. Silly, rigid me...why did I think terms and rules would be uniform throughout the use of the English language? |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 3, 2017 0:09:55 GMT 1
No, after some frustration, we reached understanding and that`s what counts most. We may differ in opinion about two systems, but understanding each other is crucial. Silly, rigid me...why did I think terms and rules would be uniform throughout the use of the English language? Forget the rules, it was Chaos which gave rise to the world as we know it. |
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Post by jeanne on Jun 3, 2017 2:33:57 GMT 1
Silly, rigid me...why did I think terms and rules would be uniform throughout the use of the English language? Forget the rules, it was Chaos which gave rise to the world as we know it. Of course...that explains it! |
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