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Post by Bonobo on Feb 24, 2008 9:23:45 GMT 1
I started learning languages when I was 6 (mid 70s).
It wasn`t English, though, but German. It was our mother`s decision. She was obsessed with the thought of imminent war and surely the communist propaganda at the time contributed to it a lot. The times were of the Cold War, communists were only too happy to play the German threat card, they were constantly reminding Poles what Germans did to us during WW2.
Besides, mum lived through the war as a child, she saw German occupants` atrocities in Krakow, the annihilation of the Jewish population. The horror of war certainly stigmatised her way of thinking too. She claimed and repeated to us many times that knowing German was the only way to survive.
I was terrified. And I was an eager pupil. I had a nice old lady tutor who came to our house. She was very distinguished, with the so-called pre-war manners, but also gentle and forgiving. We played language games I still remember. I think, in my today`s work, I use a lot of her ways: gentleness and authentic positive attitude towards kids are a major key to success.
I never forget to say prayers for her soul.
Later the tutor changed. Probably my mother had thought that a gentle lady couldn`t cope with a naughty and lazy boy I was , so she hired a university student of German. He looked like a typical German: blond hair, blue eyes, nordic features. Now wonder that when we talked about him, we used to call him "The German." "Did the German come today?" hahahahahaha I wonder what he would have thought if he had learnt about it.
We used books. The problem was they were sooooo boring. Not funny colourful books for children like today, but some serious advanced publications with a lot of texts and grammar exercises. Such was the technique of teaching in 70s: reading bulky texts and doing grammar. There weren`t any recordings, either. The result was that I started disliking German and when in 1978 we went on a trip to East Germany, I wasn`t able to say a word in German in real life situations.
When my tutor gave me additional materials to read, it was a book about some semi-socialist revolution in Mexico, some guys were escaping through the mountains while others were chasing them. It was boring too because the chased guys were riding for days and nothing happened.
My private lessons lasted for a few years, meanwhile I was getting my German education in primary school too, later it went on at high school and university. I have managed to forget a lot till today, but if I had to rapidly revise to reach the advanced level, it would take me 2 months or so.
tbc
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livia
Just born
Posts: 121
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Post by livia on Feb 24, 2008 22:25:19 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 25, 2008 0:02:08 GMT 1
I learned English the nicest possible way ;D ;D ;D By talking with English speaking people during travel and in Poland. No sweat. I am lucky. But there's a price to pay for that. I speak English as a child speaks own language, I don't know grammar rules etc. etc etc. And I write in English much worse than I speak - that is the main reason I came to Jaga's forum... and learned a lot since then - thank you  Hmm, I seriously doubt your revelation. With such good written language skills as you are presenting, it is impossible that you learnt through mere conversations. No way!!! hahahahaha |
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livia
Just born
Posts: 121
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Post by livia on Feb 25, 2008 0:09:55 GMT 1
Just wait till you hear me talking, then !! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 5, 2008 11:09:37 GMT 1
Just wait till you hear me talking, then !! ;D ;D ;D Can you record yourself and put it on youtube so that we could listen? |
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 5, 2008 11:24:22 GMT 1
I started learning English when I was about 11. It was an afternoon course at school. There weren`t too many of us, about 15 studets in one group. So, one can say, learning languages wasn`t popular with youngsters. We had Russian and German on our normal timetable in the morning.
The course lasted for about 2 years, was run by ladies, first was mature and burly, the second was an attractive young lady. They weren`t very strict but we tried to do our homework anyway. Learnjng English we became sort of elite students and it imposed certain requirements on us.
Afternoon classes were also treated as nice social occasions. After each llesson we usually stayed on the school grounds and had fun till the evening. I recall those people I met at the course as good friends.
We used Mickunas books for children. They must be prehistory as I didn`t find any pictures of them in Google. Do you remember them? I still have one at home.
The English I learnt at the course was sufficient for me to avoid any problems when , in 1982, I went to No 1 High School in Krakow and we had English on regular basis.
tbc
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livia
Just born
Posts: 121
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Post by livia on Mar 5, 2008 15:00:26 GMT 1
We used Mickunas books for children. They must be prehistory as I didn`t find any pictures of them in Google. Do you remember them? I don't remember. I never used any English handbooks to learn English. |
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livia
Just born
Posts: 121
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Post by livia on Mar 5, 2008 15:04:06 GMT 1
Just wait till you hear me talking, then !! ;D ;D ;D Can you record yourself and put it on youtube so that we could listen? Perhaps I'll do it next year, when I come back from NYC ;D ;D ;D So, what do you want me to say in English? How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wodd? Or she sells sea shells on the sea-shore?? |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 6, 2008 20:05:24 GMT 1
Hey, I still have my college books too...it's not being sentimental, just practical. You never know when you might need to look back...as evidenced by your quote of Chaucer! It is sentimental. I keep all books at home, although there are a few dozen I ddin`t read and am not going to. I should have dumped them years ago but I can`t. What should I say about my mind then? I was only 18, we were doing it on the first year, because the English Literature course commenced with such antiquities. No. I am busy with the forum which seems much more interesting and I don`t have time for such literature. hahahahahaahha |
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Post by locopolaco on Apr 24, 2008 22:26:25 GMT 1
i learned english by total immersion. no one around me spoke any polish so i HAD TO learn.
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 28, 2008 20:50:47 GMT 1
i learned english by total immersion. no one around me spoke any polish so i HAD TO learn. How long did it last to master the language so that you coul feel easy using it? |
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Post by Bonobo on May 9, 2008 11:46:09 GMT 1
I finished 8-grade primary school and went to a 4-grade high school, the oldest in Krakow, with great traditions, though a bit stale at the time. The English I had acquired at the course before high school proved very useful, though it sufficed for a year only. In the second class I stopped learning for a while and problems appeared. The teacher was strict. She seemed friendly at the beginning but later she became nitpicking, almost hostile, especially towards the boys, and we didn`t like her.
The student books we used contained a lot of texts with loads of vocabulary. There were a few grammar explanations and exercises too but rather poor. Recordings were non-existent. The traditional high school then took 4 years, so we did 4 parts of those books. They weren`t that bad, the vocabulary was really abundant and I was to realise later on it was very useful too. But the books were simply boring. I didn`t like them and the teacher either.
Nevertheless, in the last grade I decided to try to get to English Philology Department. The teacher was very surprised and declared I had no chances of passing the entrance exam. I knew it myself and got down to hard work. I went to private lessons to learn grammar and started cramming vocabulary from my books. My biggest problem was speaking. Both chatting fluently about petty things or elucidating on my opinion on serious matters was a problem. We weren`t taught to speak freely in class. We just read the texts and did the exercises.
My parents sent me to a private teacher, then another. I was gradually expanding my vocabulary and became the best student in my class. I still had problems with speaking, but it improved with the passage of time, too.
What made me choose English for studies? God`s finger? hahahahaha I don`t really know. It was implied at the time that the faculty was strictly connected with teaching, people usually took up positions at schools after getting a diploma. I didn`t want to be a teacher, it seemed so boring at the time.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 21, 2008 12:24:11 GMT 1
To get to uni one had to pass the written entrance exam, quite difficult. I got FAIR, or D, which wasn`t so bad after all, so as a result I was allowed to take the oral exam. It had two parts: Polish and English. In the first you talked about Polish literature, poets, writers etc.
In the other part I got a piece of paper with a question and a cartoon to describe and explain why it was humorous. I still remember there was a woman with a baby in the pram walking in the park. I didn`t know they word pram so I said trollley, and they corrected me.
Next it became even more interesting, because I had a question: Do you think that white collar workers should get better paid than blue collar workers? or sth like that. It was a tricky question then, mind it was 1986, communism was still an obligatory doctrine, the power was officially held by repsentatives of workers and peasants....
I didn`t hide my opinions and spoke openly it was unfair that a teacher and others got such a low salary compared to a miner who didn`t need to study hard to get proper education. Of course, I didn`t call for the overthrow of the system. I just mentioned certain injustice.
I was a bit afraid if I would pay for my sincerity, but after a few hours of waiting I learnt I had passed. I was so happy.
Later, being a student, I learnt that a lot of my English teachers at uni had once been members of Solidarity and had problems with the communist authorities after it was banned. They certainly didn`t like the system. Somehow it saved me during the exam.
Studying at uni wasn`t a piece of cake. The requirements were high. It looked as if they tried to reduce the number of students, expected some would drop out. The policy of the English Department has always been to accept more students than they can and count on drop outs. But my year was very good and the competition to avoid dropping out became cutthroat. You couldn`t repeat the first year, you had to leave the uni and take the entrance exam once again.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Jan 21, 2009 15:42:07 GMT 1
I am still so amazed by all of the expressions and slang that both you and Tufta know (like 'ya catch my drift'... ) ;D Have you been using a site such as this one to impress us??? www.manythings.org/slang/slang1.html |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 21, 2009 17:53:37 GMT 1
I am still so amazed by all of the expressions and slang that both you and Tufta know (like 'ya catch my drift'... ) ;D Have you been using a site such as this one to impress us??? www.manythings.org/slang/slang1.htmlThanks, Gigi, but you are too kind. We only use a fraction of all slang expressions available. I have a few slang dictionaries, I especially like looking through the English Polish one as the Polish slang and taboo words sound funny if there are so many of them in an entry. From time to time I take a mini-sized slang dictionary to school and study phrases during breaks but I am too old to learn efficiently and there are so many of them..... It is too late to know them all, though once my ambition was to. |
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Post by jeanne on Jan 22, 2009 2:19:14 GMT 1
From time to time I take a mini-sized slang dictionary to school and study phrases during breaks but I am too old to learn efficiently and there are so many of them..... It is too late to know them all, though once my ambition was to. And the problem with slang dictionaries is that many of the expressions become out-dated very quickly. By the time they are published, the "hip" expressions have changed. How embarrassing to use an outdated expression and sound like a "dork"!!  |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 22, 2009 11:09:18 GMT 1
From time to time I take a mini-sized slang dictionary to school and study phrases during breaks but I am too old to learn efficiently and there are so many of them..... It is too late to know them all, though once my ambition was to. And the problem with slang dictionaries is that many of the expressions become out-dated very quickly. By the time they are published, the "hip" expressions have changed. How embarrassing to use an outdated expression and sound like a "dork"!! I have ones with fixed expressions which don`t change so often. All taboo words are such. Rooster will always be a rooster!!! ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 1, 2009 22:49:01 GMT 1
From time to time I take a mini-sized slang dictionary to school and study phrases during breaks but I am too old to learn efficiently and there are so many of them..... It is too late to know them all, though once my ambition was to. And the problem with slang dictionaries is that many of the expressions become out-dated very quickly. By the time they are published, the "hip" expressions have changed. How embarrassing to use an outdated expression and sound like a "dork"!! I heard it in American Pie 1 used by a French female student. I didn`t know it was out-dated. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 3, 2009 18:30:39 GMT 1
Postcard from... Warsaw
The Lawyer
19 June 2009
When I first accepted a posting to Poland, I had never once set foot in the country. My first visit took place on the occasion of the official inauguration of Garrigues' Warsaw office and my initial impression on arriving in the city was excellent - a well-ordered, modern and entirely European city. Without a doubt, it more than lived up to my expectations.
Following this first encounter, I was already familiar with the city and the next step was to get to grips with the language. Having studied German for eight years, I thought that learning Polish would not pose too many difficulties. More fool me. I came at it from every possible angle: an hour every day, two hours on Saturday mornings, an hour at lunch time - all my efforts were in vain. I only managed to learn enough of the language to scrape by, and this with some difficulty due to pronunciation problems because Spanish lacks many of the sounds of Polish.
However, before starting my classes, I had to get out and about. While I faced few problems professionally, as English was the lingua franca, daily life was another matter altogether. I shall never forget my first major shopping foray to a Polish supermarket. It took me about 20 minutes in front of the toiletries stand just to choose a shampoo and a hair conditioner. When I got home and used them I realised I had bought two shampoos. It was impossible to guess how the word conditioner was written in Polish and my instinct let me down completely. I then needed a further 10 minutes just to try to find out where the sugar was. Of course, buying cold cuts and cheese was easier when I resorted to sign language and pointed to what I wanted and how much.
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Post by Bonobo on Sept 25, 2010 19:20:21 GMT 1
Poles becoming more multilingual?
25.09.2010 11:54
New figures released by European pollster Eurostat reveal that 49 percent of Polish children aged 15 and above learn at least two foreign languages at school.
The number amounts to 10 percent more than the European average, with Polish children mainly learning English and German.
However, only 67 of primary school children in Poland learn one foreign language, and merely 10 percent learn two languages.
By contrast, 100 percent of primary schoolchildren in Sweden and Norway learn one foreign language, with Italy and Spain not far behind on 99 and 98 percent respectively.
In Ireland, Hungary, and the Netherlands, foreign language tuition among primary schoolchildren was well below the European average 79 percent, amounting to 3, 32 and 33 percent respectively.
43 percent of Polish adults claim to know a foreign language at a basic level, with only 6 percent claiming fluency in a language other than Polish. 37 percent have no knowledge at all of a foreign language.
The Eurostat numbers are for 2008, and were published ahead of the European Day of Languages on the 26 September.
Comments
Duncan Disorderly
25/09/2010 16:48:57
There is absolutely no room for complacency here. Poland is way behind her European partners in terms of second language acquisition. I have taught students from over thirty countries and I have to say that the average level of English among Poles is lamentable. The situation was improving with young new teachers graduating in English philology, but the good work has been undone by the monumentally stupid idea to have a lower level English Matura exam. This level is almost impossible to fail, so large numbers of students now opt for it, rather than study hard for the Cambridge FCE-type higher level Matura. The result will be a generation or more of young Poles who are unable to compete in the EU in terms of English. This should be a matter
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 9, 2010 20:58:19 GMT 1
Jeanne, We found, the ice cream, even better in Poland, and lots of it. And most of all Polish people speak English well, and want to. Yay! That settles it...when do I leave??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Mike, you are a romantic idealist!
More Poles still speak Russian than English
08.10.2010 11:44
While almost the whole of Europe speaks English as their second language, in Poland, the best known foreign language remains Russian, although mostly among the older generations.
According to a new Europe-wide survey by the EU’s Eurostat statistical service, English is the most widely studied foreign language at schools and universities all over Europe, followed by French, German, Spanish and Russian.
For historical reasons knowledge of Russian is concentrated mainly in the Eastern European countries, which were under the Soviet Union’s influence.
In Poland, though the younger generations demonstrate proficiency in English - 87 percent of Polish students learn English, older generations would still rather speak Russian.
In general, knowledge of foreign languages in Poland is low, with one-in-five people between 25 and 64 years old unable to understand a language other than Polish - twice the number in in Germany, for instance.
But Poles are still ahead of Hungarians and Bulgarians in being able to understand foreign languages, however.
English is the most commonly required language by employees in Poland, fids the survey by Eurostat. Over 7,000 job offers out of 17,000 advertised on a popular job seeking site required proficiency in English and only 183 in Russian.
“Polish employees usually demand English even if an employee does not need it to perform their duties. On the other hand, if an employee looks for a person who speaks Russian, it means that they really need someone who is fluent,” Elzbieta Flasinska from a job site Pracuj.pl told the Rzeczpospolita daily.
Though English is becoming the default second language in Poland, Russian is making a comeback, after a decline in the 1990s.
“More and more Poles are taking up Russian for business reasons. The Russian-speaking market is huge and Russians don’t often speak English so it’s a great opportunity for Poles,” says Galina Tutaj from Katiusha language school. |
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Post by valpomike on Oct 9, 2010 21:05:09 GMT 1
I don't speak Polish, and I never had a problem, anyplace I went.
Mike
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Post by pjotr on Oct 10, 2010 1:20:48 GMT 1
My first English lessons were at my primary school, so I think I was 7 or 8. At high school I had a British lady as English teacher. That was very good. As a teenager I went to Oxoford in the late eightees for a sunmer course of two weeks. That improved my English a lot. It was also the start of my international connections and friendships. In Oxford I studied with French, Italian, Japanese and a lot of Spanish Summer course students. I kept contact with some of them in the ninetees. For my English highschool exam I had to read English literature and was questioned about it by the English teacher. After high school I kept reading English books occasionally and bought English language newspapers and magazines everty now and than. But ofcourse I lived a Dutch speaking and reading (writing) life back then and now. So 90% of my writing and reading is in Dutch.
Pieter
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Post by pjotr on Oct 10, 2010 1:35:11 GMT 1
In Poland I spoke English with the younger generation of Poles in the eightees and some of the uncles and aunts.
Many older Poznanians only spoke German as a foreign language, like my Dziadek and Babcia.
In my grandparents apartment building lived a very old fragile and very sophisticated Countess in the room next to my grandparents. Very distinguished and well mannered, cultivated and elegant, with the so-called pre-war manners (in Bonobo's words). For me the situation in my grandparents crowded apartment block was like an Italian movie. A lot of very differant people, of all social classes and walks of life. People who only spoke Polish, others spoke German, and again others English. You did not know who to trust in that communist era. For me Poznan was a great adveture, because I never had seen a larger city in that time as a kid. Poznan for me was a large strange, romantic and dynamic city due to the bussy streets, the 24 hours traffic in my memories. As a kid - when I did not spoke English propperly- communication in Poland was a big problem. There were many people back then who did not speak a foreign language.
Pieter
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Post by tufta on Oct 10, 2010 14:07:50 GMT 1
I don't speak Polish, and I never had a problem, anyplace I went. Mike Beacasue you probably visited touristic places only, like Warsaw or Gdansk or Poznan. |
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Post by valpomike on Oct 11, 2010 0:32:03 GMT 1
No I got into many small villages, and towns, and found the same thing. I have been over most of Poland in my visits, and love each part.
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 11, 2010 23:25:16 GMT 1
No I got into many small villages, and towns, and found the same thing. Namely, an English-speaking lady and her cow. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  |
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Post by valpomike on Oct 12, 2010 0:16:11 GMT 1
She talked to me, but not the cow, she was German.
Mike
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Post by tufta on Oct 12, 2010 4:51:50 GMT 1
No I got into many small villages, and towns, and found the same thing. So you were not in Poland but in some other country. England. Or perhaps USA. |
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Post by valpomike on Oct 12, 2010 16:40:39 GMT 1
This was, the great place of Poland, the land I love, and the great people who make her so great. I guess, I must have been lucky in finding people who spoke and wanted to speak English to me. I think this is great, because, here, in order to speak Polish, you have to go to parts of Chicago, where many still speak Polish. In my area, no one speaks Polish, or could. I wish I could, but glad that the Polish people want and do speak English so well.
Mike
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