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Post by naukowiec on Dec 29, 2019 20:51:35 GMT 1
Not people were to blame but the state which wasn`t able to supply basic items to all citizens. Yes, of course. I can't imagine what it was like to grow up to see either nothing in the shops, or full displays of things that were completely unaffordable. Obviously in some cases occupation made a big difference to lifestyle! those dentists had lousy equipment and methods. My friend's mother told of her awful experience with a dentist from those times. No anaesthetic used at all. When she asked if her treatment would be painful, the dentist said to her," You have two children. The pain will not be so bad for you I think." Unbelievable! Having said that, he was the only dentist in about a 30 km radius too, so she can't have been the only person to suffer! One had to be really desperate to drink that. I can't imagine, but I can't stand coca-cola or pepsi either. |
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 30, 2019 0:09:47 GMT 1
Obviously in some cases occupation made a big difference to lifestyle! Having said that, he was the only dentist in about a 30 km radius too, so she can't have been the only person to suffer! Occupation has always made a difference in any country, communist or capitalist.  In a communist country, one didn`t need to be a party apparatchik to earn a lot. It was enough to be a skilled specialist with a rare job. Good dentists and doctors have always been rarer than other jobs like builders, for example. Long ago I remember reading in communist press that doctors prefered to work in big cities, leaving the countryside in neglect. A dental surgery was a rarity in villages in the outback. |
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Post by naukowiec on Dec 31, 2019 8:23:48 GMT 1
A dental surgery was a rarity in villages in the outback. Yes, my friend's mother lived ( still does ) in Bieszczady region, so not a great deal of dentists or doctors to go round. Understandable I suppose, that doctors etc prefer to work in big cities, but leaves many people in rural areas neglected as you say. My friend's mother is currently undergoing chemotherapy for ovarian cancer. She has to do a 5 hour round trip to Rzeszów for treatment. Unbelievable. |
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 31, 2019 16:15:50 GMT 1
My friend's mother is currently undergoing chemotherapy for ovarian cancer. She has to do a 5 hour round trip to Rzeszów for treatment. Unbelievable. Well, it could be worse - for example, not 5 but 7 hours. So, we need to be think positive coz it can always be worse. Of course, it would be great if Poland was so rich as to be able to afford sophisticated med care and equipment in small places in the countryside but now it is impossible with PiS spending so much money on benefits, instead of using it to invest in neglected areas. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 2, 2020 11:12:53 GMT 1
it could be worse - for example, not 5 but 7 hours. I suppose one must be grateful for small mercies  it would be great if Poland was so rich as to be able to afford sophisticated med care and equipment in small places in the countryside but now it is impossible with PiS spending so much money on benefits, instead of using it to invest in neglected areas. In that respect, I don't think it's much different elsewhere. When it comes to governments, self-interest is key. They fail to see the bigger picture, because those at the top will never have to wait for healthcare or anything else. Basically, PiS don't care about those people, but eventually they'll end up shooting themselves in the foot, because these people are their core voters. Poland was so rich as to be able to afford sophisticated med care and equipment I don't think it's a question of that. Call me cynical, but my country has the 5th largest economy in the world. Our healthcare system is in pieces. The care you get depends very much on your postcode and we are way behind many European countries in availability of certain drugs, and we have one of the lowest healthcare expenditure budgets per person than in many other countries. Cancer survival rates are falling behind other EU countries, we are on a par with Bulgaria for lung cancer survival rates for example. Not enough medical staff. People leaving the profession in droves. THis is what happens when the health service has been completely neglected for years. So where is the money going? My guess is that it's lining the pockets of the rich, and if a country as wealthy as the UK is in this state, what hope is there for Poland? The simple fact is that PiS could plough more money into healthcare but they choose not to. They won't pay the doctors or nurses enough, so there's no incentive to go into the profession, and they are handing out benefits to some, while others get nothing. If the EU dumped billions and billions more into Poland, my guess is that the healthcare system would stay excatly the same. Governments the world over are corrupt, just that some are more blatant about it than others Still, there must be hope, PiS cannot rule forever!! |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 3, 2020 22:14:58 GMT 1
I suppose one must be grateful for small mercies Exactly. That`s a good motto for a good life. Our healthcare system is in pieces. Some countries know how to deal with it, other not. and if a country as wealthy as the UK is in this state, what hope is there for Poland? Unfortunately, Poland seems to belong to the first group. That is why the popular wishes: "A lot of health to you" are becoming so valid. Not enough medical staff. Not too many native Brits want to study medicine and become doctors and the import of foreign doctors isn`t enough? |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 5, 2020 11:45:52 GMT 1
Some countries know how to deal with it, other not. It's not rocket science though. Not enough money has been put into it over here, it's really that simple. You cannot run the country's healthcare system on a shoestring. All in the name of austerity measures. The UK is in more debt than 10 years ago when the conservatives announced these austerity measures. Poland seems to belong to the first group The first group? Have i missed/misunderstood something? Not too many native Brits want to study medicine and become doctors and the import of foreign doctors isn`t enough? Pay and conditions for junior doctors put people off I think. More doctors here are leaving the UK to work abroad where pay and conditions are better. www.theguardian.com/society/live/2016/jan/12/junior-doctors-strike-in-england-live-updateswww.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/how-much-are-junior-doctors-paid-and-why-are-they-threatening-to/Unfortunately, though the UK is importing more foreign doctors than we currently train, it's still not enough to meet demand. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 5, 2020 16:16:38 GMT 1
In mid 1980s TV news was surprisingly sincere in pointing out to failures of the system.
In this report from 1986, they complained about the bad quality of Polish Post, the lack of copybooks in stationer shops, dirty kitchens at youth camps and chaos in institutions responsible for urban cleaning.
1987 - tragic quality of manufactered goods, of dairy, of soda drinks. A visit to a small town discovers dirty shops, dirty restaurants, dirty diary plant, dirty everything. Oh my God, Wild East.
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 5, 2020 16:21:22 GMT 1
The first group? Have i missed/misunderstood something? No, I meant the other group, of course. Unfortunately, though the UK is importing more foreign doctors than we currently train, it's still not enough to meet demand. I see. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 8, 2020 21:17:18 GMT 1
tragic quality of manufactered goods, of dairy, of soda drinks. A visit to a small town discovers dirty shops, dirty restaurants, dirty diary plant, dirty everything This reminds me of a something I read in an article. Tuberculosis water. I could not even guess at what it meant until I carried on reading. Apparently, the glasses in which soda water was served were so dirty, that the drink itself had the nickname ' gruźliczanka (tuberculosis water)'. This is the article it came from which I found really interesting: culture.pl/en/article/10-surprising-eating-habits-from-the-communist-regime-eraReading number 4 made me feel ill. I can't stand the skin on milk  Bonobo, have you ever tried lorneta z meduzą? I was reading about that in number 10...... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 10, 2020 12:24:09 GMT 1
Apparently, the glasses in which soda water was served were so dirty, that the drink itself had the nickname ' gruźliczanka (tuberculosis water)'. This is the article it came from which I found really interesting: culture.pl/en/article/10-surprising-eating-habits-from-the-communist-regime-eraReading number 4 made me feel ill. I can't stand the skin on milk Bonobo, have you ever tried lorneta z meduzą? I was reading about that in number 10...... They weren`t dirty, coz they were washed after each serving, the soda vending maching had a special tap and mini sink for that. The problem was that the washing wasn`t enough - it didn`t remove all malicious viruses. I hated the skin on milk as a child, today I wouldn`t mind it if I drank hot milk but I don`t. Well, I remember the funny slang name for that but actually I have never tried it coz jellied meat is out of question to me.  |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 11, 2020 9:57:15 GMT 1
The problem was that the washing wasn`t enough - it didn`t remove all malicious viruses. I see. I'm surprised people drank it in that case! jellied meat is out of question to me. I must admit I'm not a fan either. I had a dish in Poland served to me that had paes and carrots in jelly. Looked very pretty, but I struggled to eat it...... |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 11, 2020 21:52:29 GMT 1
I see. I'm surprised people drank it in that case! I must admit I'm not a fan either. I had a dish in Poland served to me that had paes and carrots in jelly. Looked very pretty, but I struggled to eat it...... Coz they had no choice. Besides, people still do crazy things today, believing they won`t fall ill. That hasn`t changed much. Of course, peas and carrots are a must in various meat jellies. I googled chicken jelly and this is the first photo on the image list:  |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 11, 2020 23:19:15 GMT 1
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 12, 2020 11:36:13 GMT 1
I googled chicken jelly and this is the first photo on the image list: That's exactly it, down to the sliced boiled egg on top! I'd forgotten about the egg till I saw that! Ice cream was fairly available in communist times. I find that quite strange. I would have thought ice-cream was more of a luxury item than a staple, and wouldn't be so easily available. What I find even stranger, is that in the last but one photo, there is a woman holding a bag that says Timpson on it, and below that in a circle, it says 'fine shoes'. Timpson is still in existence, but is a locksmiths and shoe repairers rather than a shoe manufacturer these days. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 12, 2020 16:30:10 GMT 1
I find that quite strange. I would have thought ice-cream was more of a luxury item than a staple, and wouldn't be so easily available. What I find even stranger, is that in the last but one photo, there is a woman holding a bag that says Timpson on it, and below that in a circle, it says 'fine shoes'. Timpson is still in existence, but is a locksmiths and shoe repairers rather than a shoe manufacturer these days. Well, I said fairly available by which I mean you could get ice cream after serving your time in a queue, as you can see in the photos. As for the Timpson bag, there are a few possible answers to it. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 15, 2020 19:48:59 GMT 1
you could get ice cream after serving your time in a queue, as you can see in the photos. At least there were some treats back then. I suppose I had the impression that people then had a grim existence almost. Potatoes, a bit of meat etc, when, even though things were in short supply, people had chocolate and sweets, alcohol etc. I don't mean to sound flippant, because I know that under communism, life was certainly no picnic, just a bit different to how I imagined it. As for the Timpson bag, there are a few possible answers to it. Timpson had stores in Poland, ot the person wasn't from Poland? A few answers really. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 18, 2020 23:12:13 GMT 1
I knew one dentist who bought a car from Pewex - it was a small Japanese car which cost about 3000 - 4000 $ - incredible sum of money for a typical Pole. When I posted that, I tried to recall the make and model but couldn`t. Yesterday I saw that car on the road. Daihatsu Charade  Charade, the smallest compact car at the time, cost 3800$ in early 1980s. Later, 4600. The story of Pewex cars. automobilownia.pl/konfrontacje-pewex-classics/ |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 18, 2020 23:32:54 GMT 1
I suppose I had the impression that people then had a grim existence almost. Potatoes, a bit of meat etc, when, even though things were in short supply, people had chocolate and sweets, alcohol etc. I don't mean to sound flippant, because I know that under communism, life was certainly no picnic, just a bit different to how I imagined it. Timpson had stores in Poland, ot the person wasn't from Poland? A few answers really. One certainly can`t look at Polish communism as a uniform system - it was very chaotic, in fact. Also, there was a big difference between the cities and countryside. There still is. In People`s Poland ice cream wasn`t considered a luxury item in cities while in remote villages it was. I suppose neither. That bag could have been made in Poland by local enterpreneurs who copied foreign designs onto cheap shopping bags. I remember buying and using such a bag in late 1970s - a copy of Marlboro ad. It had very ugly colours and the image was awfully blurred so my family told me to stop carrying it in their presence coz it was embarassing. hahaha |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 19, 2020 17:05:39 GMT 1
cost 3800$ in early 1980s. Later, 4600. Unbelievable amount back then. Still trying to get my head round buying cars via a Pewex shop.... That's a whole lot out of a wage. In that link it was stating that a good wage at that time was not far off 8000 PLN, so that's like half a years wages for someone on a good income. it was very chaotic, in fact. Also, there was a big difference between the cities and countryside. The whole thing sounds so bizarre to me. I know there is a great deal of difference between cities and countryside. I think my friend's family didn't do too badly back then. They had land and a few farm animals, so they grew vegetables, had milk from their cow etc. copied foreign designs onto cheap shopping bags. I remember buying and using such a bag in late 1970s - a copy of Marlboro ad. It had very ugly colours and the image was awfully blurred so my family told me to stop carrying it in their presence coz it was embarassing. hahaha Must admit I hadn't thought of that. How could you embarass your poor parents like that! The shame |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 20, 2020 22:00:36 GMT 1
That's a whole lot out of a wage. In that link it was stating that a good wage at that time was not far off 8000 PLN, so that's like half a years wages for someone on a good income. The whole thing sounds so bizarre to me. Must admit I hadn't thought of that. How could you embarass your poor parents like that! The shame I am not sure what you mean by half a year`s. It would be more correct to say half a life. An average pay was 25-30$ monthly at a black market exchange rate. And only through the black market one could gain so much hard currency. That means that the dentist I mentioned earned not thousands but millions PLN. That was her due reward for the education she had gained. Why? Well, one just needs to realise that communism had its black, grey and white sides, nothing was purely one colour. Actually, not. I will be honest with you. It wasn`t my parents, who ignored the issue coz they had bigger problems on mind. It was my elder sister, extremely jealous of me as the apple of their eye, she never missed a chance to critisize and abuse me to show them she wasn`t so unimportant after all. I hated her at the time coz I didn`t understand her motives of a deeply hurt unappreciated girl, but after years I forgave her. My dad was fair towards us but my mum wasn`t. I couldn`t help it. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 23, 2020 0:14:41 GMT 1
I am not sure what you mean by half a year`s. It would be more correct to say half a life. Oops, I've obviously misread something! the dentist I mentioned earned not thousands but millions PLN. That was her due reward for the education she had gained. That much! Wow, hard work certainly did pay off! Well, one just needs to realise that communism had its black, grey and white sides, nothing was purely one colour. I think that for those with very little money it would have been a very dark shade of grey indeed..... It was my elder sister, extremely jealous of me as the apple of their eye, she never missed a chance to critisize and abuse me to show them she wasn`t so unimportant after all. I hated her at the time coz I didn`t understand her motives of a deeply hurt unappreciated girl, but after years I forgave her. My dad was fair towards us but my mum wasn`t. I couldn`t help it. Oh dear. Sibling rivalry has a lot to answer for, or maybe that's not strictly the correct term here. I hope you have a better relationship now. They say that blood is thicker than water, but I'm not sure if \I agree with that. Probably very difficult times for you all back then, the uncertainty that went with life under communism. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 24, 2020 12:08:43 GMT 1
I think that for those with very little money it would have been a very dark shade of grey indeed..... I hope you have a better relationship now. Probably very difficult times for you all back then, the uncertainty that went with life under communism. As everywhere, under any political ad economic system. It is always better to have more than less. But let`s not forget the working class, especially in important industries, was priviliged and pampered by the authorities. Also, communists subsidised a lot of items, e.g., food. So, nothing was only one colour. What I didn`t get from my sister, I got from parents. Today our relations are neutral, I would say leaning to warm from time to time. Not so difficult. My parents were educated and worked a lot so there were no financial problems. Besides, we didn`t feel the uncertainty coz communism tried to keep the society in a good mood. Even when there was no carp for Christmas and other goods throughout the year, it wasn`t the end of the world coz we enjoyed life as much as we could using such recources we had access to. Now I am saying it from the perspective of a young person who didn`t care much about crucial life matters.  |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 25, 2020 10:38:33 GMT 1
let`s not forget the working class, especially in important industries, was priviliged and pampered by the authorities. Also, communists subsidised a lot of items, e.g., food. So, nothing was only one colour. You see, it doesn't sound that bad at all when you write things like this, but obviously it was a grim time in Polish history. Not so difficult. My parents were educated and worked a lot so there were no financial problems. Besides, we didn`t feel the uncertainty coz communism tried to keep the society in a good mood. Even when there was no carp for Christmas and other goods throughout the year, it wasn`t the end of the world coz we enjoyed life as much as we could using such recources we had access to. Now I am saying it from the perspective of a young person who didn`t care much about crucial life matters. Your last sentence sounds about right! Your parents may well have been ok financially, but I remember you saying how happy they were to have a few months supply of potatoes. From your parents perspective, with a young family to bring up, it must have been a worrying time. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 25, 2020 22:31:20 GMT 1
You see, it doesn't sound that bad at all when you write things like this, Your parents may well have been ok financially, but I remember you saying how happy they were to have a few months supply of potatoes. From your parents perspective, with a young family to bring up, it must have been a worrying time. Communism had its advantages, that is why after it had collapsed, people voted ex-communists back to power in 1990s. I never voted communists in my life. If I am able to see certain positives today, I do it for the sake of remaining a neutral observer. Those potatoes happened in the hardest time around martial law 1981. It is obvious they were delighted while I didn`t care or even was a bit annoyed coz I had to carry that heavy and dirty sack to the cellar. Only a few years later did I realise the importance of that situation. |
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Post by naukowiec on Jan 26, 2020 9:08:00 GMT 1
I didn`t care or even was a bit annoyed coz I had to carry that heavy and dirty sack to the cellar. Only a few years later did I realise the importance of that situation. Well I don't suppose you were that old, no-one expected you to think like an adult in your youth. It is always with hindsight that one can see the bigger picture. |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 6, 2020 13:09:53 GMT 1
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Post by naukowiec on Feb 9, 2020 11:41:17 GMT 1
TV was always an expensive purchase in communist times. People had to save for months or even years for TVs which were also produced in Poland. I am not surprised. I think TV's were expensive anyway back then relative to today, but I don't doubt they were hard to get hold of unless you went to the Pewex shop of course. Did you have one growing up Bonobo? But most of them were kind and invited their friends and neighbours to come and watch together. That was a wonderful example of social integration, sth which people lack today. That is good to know. I think kindness and looking out for other people is sadly lacking in today's society. People have stopped caring. |
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 9, 2020 23:57:06 GMT 1
but I don't doubt they were hard to get hold of unless you went to the Pewex shop of course. Did you have one growing up Bonobo? But most of them were kind and invited their friends and neighbours to come and watch together. That was a wonderful example of social integration, sth which people lack today. That is good to know. I think kindness and looking out for other people is sadly lacking in today's society. People have stopped caring. No, the supply of TVs was always a priority for communists, how else would they spread their propaganda? haha But you could buy a TV and a TV - simple and bad quality or better ones. E.g., some TVs from the USSR were known for exploding after long using. Yes, Pewex was a good source. However, in mid 70s, when the supply of foreign goods from the West was still satisfactory, my parents managed to buy a Japanese TV which was very modern at the time coz it had touch sensors to change a channel. They paid in PLN, and it cost a fortune - as far as a remember, a few months` salary of both parents. All my classmates who visited me at home admired our TV and played with those sensors until I told them to stop coz they might damage the TV. hahaha |
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Post by naukowiec on Feb 12, 2020 21:26:10 GMT 1
how else would they spread their propaganda? haha Radio! some TVs from the USSR were known for exploding after long using. I shouldn't be surprised..... my parents managed to buy a Japanese TV which was very modern at the time coz it had touch sensors to change a channel. OMG! At that time we didn't have anything like that at home! You were doing better than we were! |
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In a communist country, one didn`t need to be a party apparatchik to earn a lot. It was enough to be a skilled specialist with a rare job. Good dentists and doctors have always been rarer than other jobs like builders, for example. 
