Thoughts about faith

[jeanne]

Dec 28, 2019 21:25:08 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

I gradually developed my private faith which is quite strong, I admit. I have a problem with the official Church, though.

Unfortunately, the "official" Church has had its problems since its beginning (read Acts of the Apostles), and over the centuries the problems and scandals have continued. Why? The answer is simple...the Church was founded by Jesus Christ, but his HUMAN followers are the ones entrusted with maintaining it. Humans are and always will be subject to faults and failings...otherwise known as sin...and so those having an official role in the Church are no exception.

The dilemma we face is that Christ established his Church and the sacraments as a means of conveying His grace to us, and since we know we are all weak and sinful, we need His grace to live a virtuous life and make it to Heaven. Once we accept the fact that when priests/bishops are conveying the sacraments, they are doing so "in personna Christi" or "in the person of Christ," we can understand that when they act in their official capacity, they do so outside of their human nature. God will judge them for their failings in their "human life," but their official role as conveyors of God's grace through the sacraments remains legitimate.

What is the alternative? The Church established by Christ remains to this day...over twenty centuries...despite the tough times that have come and gone. We have seen what has happened to those groups who attempted to separate from the Church of Rome: they have split, and split, and split again, and again, and again. The Protestant answer to the dilemma has been to establish their "own" churches which number now in the thousands...read Christ's sermon to his apostles at the Last Supper (chapter 17 in the Gospel of John) and see if you think this is what God desired.

Those of us who have faith must remain in the Church and insist our priests live holy lives. To leave the Church now is the worst thing we can do...it would be giving in to evil. The Church's problems and scandals today are due to the failure of many in the Church to live their lives the way Christ taught us to live and to live according to the doctrines the Catholic Church continues to teach.

[Bonobo]

Dec 28, 2019 23:41:32 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Humans are and always will be subject to faults and failings...otherwise known as sin...and so those having an official role in the Church are no exception.

Yes, true.

Dec 28, 2019 23:41:32 GMT 1 jeanne said:

God will judge them for their failings in their "human life," but their official role as conveyors of God's grace through the sacraments remains legitimate.

Sacraments are OK. But when a clergyman preaches to people to live decently and stick to certain Church`s doctrines/dogmas, but at the same time he is completely corrupt and vile, then it turns into parody. Believers have the right to reject such a "conveyor" and preaching.

Dec 28, 2019 23:41:32 GMT 1 jeanne said:

We have seen what has happened to those groups who attempted to separate from the Church of Rome: they have split. read Christ's sermon to his apostles at the Last Supper (chapter 17 in the Gospel of John) and see if you think this is what God desired.

The split of Churches took place when top clergy in the past couldn`t agree on sharing power and influence but wanted them only for themselves. It was their fault, not ordinary believers`. Later, protestantism originated to improve the corrupt Church`s of Rome practices.

Dec 28, 2019 23:41:32 GMT 1 jeanne said:

To leave the Church now is the worst thing we can do

I don`t want to leave it. But I can`t help takingh many things which the top Church officials claim with a pinch of salt. I simply don`t believe them - most are corrupt power and wealth seekers.

Dec 28, 2019 23:41:32 GMT 1 jeanne said:

The Church established by Christ remains to this day...over twenty centuries...despite the tough times that have come and gone.

Yes, it has remained, but has lost much of its influence in many countries and is still losing it. Fewer and fewer people want to be in it, including those who would like to become priests. Will Africa provide all priests to countries in the world? I doubt it. The reforms are necessary. The times when Christ lived were completely different than today and the Cburch has to take it into consideration, otherwise it will become another small religious group, like thousand other.