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Post by valpomike on Nov 10, 2009 18:37:06 GMT 1
This week, is the week that the Berlin wall came down twenty years ago. Do you think this was good, if yes why, if not why? I know many people have there own side on this, and I wonder what you all, think on this. I myself am not sure, still checking on this, now since other sides have come up. Did this help, or hurt Poland, and why.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 11, 2009 9:56:25 GMT 1
Walesa starts the Berlin dominoes falling
09.11.2009 20:42
Former Solidarity leader Lech Walesa tipped the first large foam block in Berlin, Monday evening, unleashing a cascade of giant dominoes to symbolise the fall of the wall, twenty years ago.
The tumbling of thousands of foam slabs - stretching over a kilometre and a half of the old route of the wall, and decorated by German school children, artists and freedom rights activists - was part of the climax of events marking the ending of the separation of east and west Berlin and the fall of communism in central and eastern Europe.
Before, speeches had been given under the Brandenburg Gate by world leaders, including a video address by President Barack Obama.
Secretary of State Hilary Clinton told the crowd, who had gathered in the rain: “We remember the Poles, who led the struggle for freedom that started in the Gdansk shipyards. Remember about Pope John II, who was an inspiration. Remember the people of the Baltic states. Remember the students of the Czech Republic. Remember the Germans who demolished the wall.”
Earlier, Lech Walesa, Chancellor Angela Merkel and former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev ceremoniously crossed an old border in Berlin separating east and west.
The crossing of the bridge near the checkpoint at Bornholmer Strasse was one of several events, Monday, to celebrate the breaking down of the Berlin Wall, which snaked 155 kilometres through the centre and suburbs of the divided city.
Among the invited guests at the ceremonies were representatives of the four powers that carved up the city into sectors in the wake of WW II: Russia’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, British prime minister Gordon Brown and French president Nicolas Sarkozy. They were joined by European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso, and Jerzy Buzek, president of the European Parliament.
Lech Walesa told the TVN 24 news station that responsibility for the fall of the wall, reunification of German and end of communism was, “50 percent John Paul II‘s, 30 percent Solidarity and 20 percent the rest of the world. That‘s the truth about those days,” he said.    The first blcok was paintd by German and Polish children to symbolise Poland`s role in toppling communism and the Wall.  PS. Funny that at the same time Walęsa knocked over not only a domino block but also a cameraman who was standing behind. The broadcasting for German TV was broken.  Germans, I am so sorry but forgive us and Wałęsa. He is Great Destructor, he abolished communism in Poland, because it is such a type of man, he just abolishes everything. See the film: www.wiadomosci24.pl/artykul/padaly_wielkie_slowa_padal_mur_padl_i_kamerzysta_115403--1.html
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 11, 2009 10:03:02 GMT 1
This week, is the week that the Berlin wall came down twenty years ago. Do you think this was good, if yes why, if not why? I know many people have there own side on this, and I wonder what you all, think on this. I myself am not sure, still checking on this, now since other sides have come up. Did this help, or hurt Poland, and why. Mike I vaguely remember watching the TV footage of thrilled crowds dancing on the Wall. But I didn`t pay attention to it too much. It was sort of natural to me that freedom was spreading like a storm all over our part of Europe. And I was too preoccupied with Polish and my own matters. United Germany? Pros - the strongest country in the world after US. It is good to have it as a friend. Cons - the strongest country in the world after US. It is very bad to have it as an enemy. Which role Poland assumes, friend or enemy, depends much on us, Poles. |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 11, 2009 18:00:15 GMT 1
God Bless Lech, he is the man, or was the man.
Mike
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Post by tufta on Nov 11, 2009 19:54:12 GMT 1
United Germany? Pros - the strongest country in the world after US. It is good to have it as a friend. Cons - the strongest country in the world after US. It is very bad to have it as an enemy. Which role Poland assumes, friend or enemy, depends much on us, Poles. Bo, you know that I like you and usually very much share some of your opinions, don't you? ;D ;D ;D Unfortunately this is one of the occasions when I can't agree even in single point. But I do thank you for a very nice and comprehensive "Independance Day' """ service""". |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 11, 2009 21:27:35 GMT 1
United Germany? Pros - the strongest country in the world after US. It is good to have it as a friend. Cons - the strongest country in the world after US. It is very bad to have it as an enemy. Which role Poland assumes, friend or enemy, depends much on us, Poles. Bo, you know that I like you and usually very much share some of your opinions, don't you? ;D ;D ;D Yes, mostly, until we switch to Warsaw Rising. I am surprised you don`t share my views. Aren`t they obvious? Is it untrue that Germany is the strongest after US? Or that is is good to have it as a friend and bad as an enemy? And that Poles` role in establishing and keeping good relations is crucial? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 12, 2009 2:04:44 GMT 1
We must all get along, but don't and I think never will.
Mike
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Post by tufta on Nov 12, 2009 20:27:23 GMT 1
I am surprised you don`t share my views ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The way you put then right now they are acceptable ;D BUT: Germany is not the second power generally but a second power in NATO. Just an inch ahead of UK and Fra and two inches ahead of Poland. But this is of course changing as you know and in some 50 years Poland will be few inches ahead ;D ;D Here's not bad article about you favourite European country www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14859361&source=hptextfeature |
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Post by tufta on Nov 12, 2009 20:31:30 GMT 1
We must all get along, but don't and I think never will. Mike Mike, we, Poland and Germany, do get along quite well since some 20 years. Don't be misled by existing 'tactical' differences. We are rowing in the same boat again, for the first time since some 400 years. |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 13, 2009 1:31:47 GMT 1
When will they, the Germans and Russians turn on Poland again. We all know it will happen, but when. When they need something that Poland has.
Mike
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Post by coco on Nov 13, 2009 15:44:34 GMT 1
When will they, the Germans and Russians turn on Poland again. We all know it will happen, but when. When they need something that Poland has. Mike Yes, German and Russian loves Polish Sausages and other foods. Don't forget they did built Warsaw and it is their village.. |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 13, 2009 16:24:42 GMT 1
They also burnt it, along with most of Poland, during the WWII.
And killed many, without good reason.
Mike
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Post by valpomike on Nov 13, 2009 22:35:57 GMT 1
Arlene,
Don't be mad at me, I still love you. I love everyone, some more than others, and some a few times a week.
Mike
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Post by coco on Nov 14, 2009 17:07:53 GMT 1
Arlene, Don't be mad at me, I still love you. I love everyone, some more than others, and some a few times a week. Mike Yes, Mike I do love you. I need to see your face not internet. |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 14, 2009 17:09:35 GMT 1
When and where?
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 22, 2009 16:56:30 GMT 1
Gorbachev and Walesa in row at German unification celebrationsDPA
2009-11-10
Berlin - Nobel Peace Prize winners Mikhail Gorbachev and Lech Walesa engaged in a round of tit-for-tat rebukes Tuesday as the pair celebrated the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Wall in Berlin.
After the Polish Solidarity union leader Walesa last week dubbed Gorbachev a "weak politician" in an interview, the former Soviet leader on Tuesday hit back, accusing Walesa of trying to claim the credit for the collapse of the communism.
The two - plus other world leaders from the time of the 1989, such as then West German chancellor Helmut Kohl - have been in the German capital to mark the November 9 breach of the wall.
At a meeting of Nobel Peace Prize laureates on Tuesday evening, Gorbachev hit back at Walesa, when asked for his comments on "weak president" jibe.
"Walesa wants a bigger piece of the slice of the pie, a larger amount of credit," Gorbachev told reporters on the margins of the conference.
"Could a 'weak' president have started such reforms?" he continued.
"After I stepped down, people said the era of Gorbachev is over. However, the era of Gorbachev is not over, it is only beginning."
Last week Walesa told Spiegel, the German weekly magazine, that "It was good that Gorbachev was a weak politician," suggesting that a stronger leader might have been tempted to "block the mass escape" from the former East Germany.
He also appeared to downplay the role of the East German protests against their communist rulers, saying: "The Germans, of course, tore down the literal wall in Berlin. The fall of the Berlin Wall makes for nice pictures. But it all started in the shipyards".
That is a reference to his own Solidarnosc union, which confronted the Polish communist regime at the Gdansk shipyards in the early 1980s.
The apparent rivalry between the two leaders has not overshadowed the larger celebrations taking place in the reunited German capital, which saw fireworks and 1,000 dominoes toppled on Monday to mark the exact anniversary of the first breach of the wall.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel - who herself grew up in East Germany - was accompanied by both Gorbachev and Walesa on Monday as she walked across the first border crossing to have opened on November 9, 1989.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 22, 2009 17:17:40 GMT 1
Walesa's Injuries from Berlin Collision Worse than First Thought
Der Spiegel
11/16/09
Lech Walesa helped Berlin celebrate the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall last week. But he was also involved in an unfortunate collision with a cameraman on a Segway. Now, it appears that his injuries were worse than first thought.
He put the first cracks in the Iron Curtain, fissures that spread until the Berlin Wall collapsed. Last week, Lech Walesa was in the German capital to reprise his role in the symbolic toppling of 1,000 outsized dominoes set up along the course of the once-feared Wall.
But when the former Polish president stepped forward last Monday evening to demolish the metaphorical barrier, he also managed to topple a cameraman riding by on a Segway in order to capture the chain of events. And, according to a Polish radio report on Sunday, he injured himself in the process.
The incident was caught on camera, and shows Walesa taking a step backward to admire the falling dominoes for himself. But the Segway-riding camerman tried to cut it too close and clipped Walesa's back. The Nobel Peace Prize laureate lost his balance and caught himself on the already toppled first domino, but the cameraman went flying.
At the time, it appeared Walesa was unharmed in the incident but over the weekend, Walesa told the Polish radio programme TOK FM that over the last week, his injuries have become more painful, making it difficult for him to walk or get off of the sofa without assistance. The difficulties prompted a trip to hospital, where doctors found he had a torn leg muscle and a spinal injury. According to Polish tabloid Fakt, he has been told to return to the hospital for a follow-up.
Walesa had been invited by Germany to knock over the first domino as a tribute to his efforts to organize Gdansk shipyard workers in the early 1980s. His Solidarnosc movement soon spread throughout the country, ultimately resulting in the fall of the communist government in Poland. Walesa became Poland's president soon after communism came to an end in the country. |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 22, 2009 19:39:30 GMT 1
This was due to the actions of Ronald Regan, one of the great leaders of the past.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 23, 2010 22:36:46 GMT 1
This was due to the actions of Ronald Regan, one of the great leaders of the past. Mike Yes. Reagan, Gorbachov, Walesa and the Pope - they all somehow contributed to the Fall. |
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