Poles to vote in parliamentary elections 2011

[pjotr]

Poles to vote in parliamentary elections

The vote will determine whether PM's Civic Platform party gets another term after four years of strong economic growth.


Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, centre, will likely turn to his current coalition partners if he wins[/img]

Poles will vote in parliamentary elections that will determine whether the country continues on its conciliatory course with Russia and Germany, or whether it returns to a more combative stance with those historic foes.

Before Sunday's voting, polls showed Prime Minister Donald Tusk's centrist and pro-EU party in the lead, but outspoken former premier Jaroslaw Kaczynski's conservative-nationalist Law and Justice party narrowed the gap in some polls at the end of campaigning.

No party is expected to be able to rule alone and Tusk is likely to turn to his current coalition partners, the Peasants' Party(PSL), if he wins.

But opinion polls show left-wing Palikot's Movement, a new party which supports gay rights, abortion and legalisation of soft drugs, could emerge as a potential partner.

Tusk, who steered the country of more than 38 million people safely through the 2008-09 global financial crisis, has portrayed himself as a guardian of stability and said he will continue his cautious approach to economic reforms if he wins.

"At stake in this election are security and the stable development of our country. In my view, only PO [Civic Platform] guarantees that," Tusk said on Friday.

To his supporters, Tusk is a moderate leader who has promoted stability and good relations with Germany, Russia and the EU. They point to the fact that the economy has grown steadily on his watch.

His opponents accuse him of lacking the courage to make ambitious reforms in a country with significant problems, like high unemployment at around 11 per cent and heavy state regulation that stifles businesses.

Law and Justice leaders have promised more state involvement in the economy, including a bank tax and higher taxes for the rich, and vowed to wind down large-scale privatisation carried out since Civic Platform took power in late 2007.

"If Poland becomes a strong, developed country, we won't have to privatise Polish companies, sell state firms for peanuts or privatise hospitals," Kaczynski told the Fakt tabloid.


Law and Justice partyleader Jaroslaw Kaczynski's at a party meeting

Immediate challenge

Poland's main immediate challenge is to curb the public debt and deficit, which ballooned during the financial crisis.

Ratings agencies have said they could downgrade Poland if it does not swiftly act to reduce the budget deficit, expected to reach 5.6 per cent of gross domestic product this year, and the public debt, expected to reach 53.8 per cent of GDP this year.

Economists doubt Law and Justice would be able to meet the challenge and a short-term sell-off would be likely on Polish financial markets if it won.

The current coalition, however, has failed to deliver on the far-reaching liberal market reforms Tusk originally promised.

The rise in support for Palikot's Movement came as a surprise. It was founded by a maverick lawmaker, Janusz Palikot, who is fighting the power of the Roman Catholic church and favors many liberal causes.

Palikot's party was in third place in some recent polls, ahead of some established parties, and appears to be benefiting from disillusionment with them and increasing secularism in this conservative, mainly Catholic country.

If Tusk's Civic Platform wins on Sunday, it would make history by becoming the first to ever win two consecutive terms since the fall of communism in 1989.

However, polls show it unlikely to win enough votes to have an outright majority in parliament, meaning it would likely need to find a coalition partner. And any prolonged uncertainty over the shape of the coalition could unsettle financial markets in Poland.

More than 30 million people are eligible to vote. They will elect 460 legislators in the lower house, the Sejm, and 100 to the upper chamber, the Senate.

Source: Agencies

[pjotr]

Kaczyński's Merkel comments 'harming' Polish German-relations



The Polish president has called on the opposition leader to apologize

Controversial excerpts from a book written by Poland's main opposition leader, Jarosław Kaczyński, concerning German Chancellor Angela Merkel are harming Polish-German relations and thus is detrimental to Poland's national interest, according to Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski.


German Chancellor Angela Merkel

Mr Tusk said Poland has no greater friend than Chancellor Merkel, reported the Associated Press.

The Law and Justice (PiS) leader should stop "stirring up bad blood against Poland's biggest trading partner," said Mr Sikorski.

President Bronisław Komorowski, meanwhile, has called on Mr Kaczyński to apologize to Ms Merkel for his comments, the Polish Press Agency reported.

The source of the discontent is Mr Kaczyński's new book: “The Poland of Our Dreams.” The following passages, cited by the AFP, are understood by many to be an attempt by the PiS leader to use anti-German sentiment to make political gains ahead of the October 9 parliamentary elections.

Chancellor Merkel "represents the generation of German politicians who want to rebuild German imperial power. A strategic axis with Moscow is part of that and Poland can only be an obstacle to it. Our country must be made to submit in one way or another. The critical thing is that Merkel wants Poland to submit, a soft submission, perhaps, but a submission nonetheless," wrote Mr Kaczyński.

He also spoke against German investments, writing: "I can't claim to be overjoyed about German investment in western Poland. We could wake up one day and find ourselves in a smaller Poland."

Another comment, which Mr Kaczyński has refused to explain despite repeated requests from journalists, seems to show his doubts about the legitimacy of Ms Merkel's election as German chancellor. "I don't think that the awarding of the post of chancellor to Angela Merkel was pure chance. But I won't elaborate on my belief, I'll leave that to the political scientists and historians," reads Mr Kaczyński's book.

German government spokesperson Georg Streiter declined to comment on Mr Kaczyński's comments, saying only that the chancellor “places extraordinarily high value on a friendly relationship with our Polish neighbors,” reported the Associated Press.

“Merkelgate,” as the Polish press have dubbed it, seems likely to have taken a toll on PiS's election hopes. A TNS OBOP poll released on Thursday shows Mr Kaczyński's party with 18 percent support – placing it far behind the ruling PO, which was backed by 31 percent of surveyed Poles.

Just last week, before Mr Kaczyński's book had gained much notoriety, PiS was almost neck-and-neck with PO in the polls.

From Warsaw Business Journal by Alice Trudelle

[pjotr]

Komorowski urges Poles to vote
7th October 2011
Abstention will 'will only hurt Poland,' the country's president said



Polish President Bronisław Komorowski is expected to deliver a speech on Friday evening when he will, for one last time, urge Poles to participate in Sunday's parliamentary election.

Midnight on Friday will mark the beginning of the official election silence, when official campaigning ends and a ban on political advertising will come into force.

President Komorowski, along with his wife Anna Komorowska, has been encouraging Poles to turn out and vote on Sunday. The President recently said that “while I understand the impatience and discouragement, abstention in the upcoming election will only hurt ourselves, Poland, and the Polish democracy.”

Singer Monika Brodka and actor Maciej Stuhr have joined the president in his get-out-the-vote campaign.

[pjotr]

Poland to vote in general election


Mr Tusk (left) is hoping to defeat Jaroslaw Kaczynski's Law and Justice party

People in Poland are set to vote in a parliamentary election which the governing centre-right hopes to win.

If successful, PM Donald Tusk's Civic Platform would become the first Polish party to win two consecutive terms since the fall of communism in 1989.

Mr Tusk has presided over four years of strong economic growth.

Analysts say turnout will determine the make-up of the governing coalition. Civic Platform is currently allied with the Peasants' Party (PSL).

Opinion polls suggest Civic Platform (PO) is likely to win Sunday's general election.

However low turnouts have traditionally favoured its main rival, Jaroslaw Kaczynski's conservative-nationalist Law and Justice (PiS) party, which has a more loyal core constituency.

"Nothing is prejudged yet, we will be fighting for our coalition to the very end," Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, also a deputy head of PO, said this week.

Analysts say a low turnout could force the party to seek a less natural partnership with the opposition Democratic Left Alliance (SLD).

'Aspirations'

Mr Tusk has campaigned on Poland's strong growth and has vowed to pursue a steady rapprochement with Russia, despite rows over missile defence and gas pipelines as well as the conduct of an inquiry into a plane crash that killed Poland's president last year.

Poland's relatively large domestic market, which reduces its dependence on exports and EU-funded public sector investments, helped it through the first wave of the financial crisis.

The country has been was the only EU member state to avoid recession and, this year, its economy is forecast to grow by about 4%, the highest rate among the EU's seven largest economies.

But, according to Andrzej Rychard, of the Polish Academy of Sciences, such economic success might not translate into votes at the ballot box.

"Poles are not comparing themselves continuously with other nations - they are comparing themselves with their aspirations and expectations," he told the BBC.

[pjotr]

Tufta/Bonobo,

I hope that Donald Tusk,s Citizens Platform (PO) wins and that he can go for a second term and continue his financial-economical policies, European integration, supporting the reinforcing of EU institutions and his privatisation measures in Poland. Less state intervention and more entrepreneurship has worked in Poland the last two decades.

That Poland was the only EU country to avoid recession is a great accomplishment. I wonder however what badly needed economic and social reforms the Citizens Platform government failed to carry out? A few years back I heard this criticism from PO supporter Tufta. You said that you was disappointed that the government did not fulfill its promise of further tax reforms and did not invest enough in Research & Development, which is important for the Polish competition with other markets and the Polish Information Communication Technology sector and Human Capital (the Polish labour market, entrepreneurial spirit and abilities of people) and education (good education creates opportunities for the future. Economical growth, new inventions, new products, new investments and etc.).

Personally I am not an expert in the field of the Polish economy, the Polish society, the Polish innermarket, Polish politics, the Polish government policies or measures and therefor I am dependant on the good news I sometimes hear from you Jaga, and from Tuftabis, Pawian (Bonobo) and sources like the Economist, Warsaw Business journal and Polish radio. It is very hard to translate Polish articles propperly into English or Dutch.

I wish mister Donald Tusk and his party Citizens Platform succes in the Polish elections this Sunday!

Cheers,
Pieter

[pjotr]

Jaga wrote on the other Forum that she like me hopes like you that PO would win although this time there is less enthusiasm towards Tusk as during the last elections, partly due to the crisis.

She thinks there is too much infighting and corruption and lack of prospects for young people, therefore in her opinion they leave Poland again...

[pjotr]

Poland votes in parliamentary elections


President Komorowski votes in Warsaw; photo - PAP/Radek Pietruszka

We will be publishing exit polls and reactions from 21.00 CET when polling stations close until around midnight tonight, with a one-hour LIVE English language broadcast beginning at 21.30 CET, which will be streamed on the Polish Radio External Service audio player.
The National Election Commission has announced that at 18.00 CET, turnout was 39.6 percent, down on the same time, four years ago. Turnout during the 2007 election was officially 53.8 percent.
Over 30 million Poles have an opportunity to vote today until 21.00 CET when polling stations are scheduled to close.
President Bronislaw Komorowski voted in Warsaw at around 11.00 CET, while Donald Tusk, who has been prime minister in the centre-right coalition for the last four years, cast his vote, also in the capital, one hour later.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who led the largest opposition party in the lower house (Sejm) in the last parliament, will also be voting in Warsaw at around 14.15 CET.
The National Election Commission says that it expects around 156,000 Poles to cast votes abroad.
Polish-Americans in the US voted on Saturday – due to time differences – and around 20,000 cast votes there.
This page will be updated throughout Sunday to keep you up-to-date with all the election news until polling stations close. (pg)

[pjotr]

Exit polls favour Poland's ruling party

Civic Platform party likely to get another term after four years of strong economic growth.

The ruling centre-right Civic Platform (PO) party of Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, is comfortably ahead in parliamentary elections, an exit poll showed after voting stations closed.

The poll, conducted on Sunday for national television, showed the pro-business, pro-European Union party winning 39.6 per cent against 30.1 per cent for the nationalist-conservative Law and Justice party of Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

If the poll numbers remain as they are, Tusk's party would make history by becoming the first to win two consecutive terms since the fall of communism in 1989.

The PO, along with its coaltion partner, the Peasants' Party (PSL), will have enough seats to form a new government, the exit poll showed, projecting a total of 212 seats for PO in the 450-member Sejm, the lower house of parliament, and 27 seats for PSL.

The elections were predicted to determine whether the country would continue on its conciliatory course with Russia and Germany, or whether it would returns to a more combative stance with the historic foes.

Opinion polls had suggested the left-wing Palikot's Movement, a new party which supports gay rights, abortion and legalisation of soft drugs, could emerge as a potential partner for Tusk's party.

'Stable development'

Tusk, who steered the country of more than 38 million people safely through the 2008-2009 global financial crisis, has portrayed himself as a guardian of stability and has claimed he will continue a cautious approach to economic reforms if he wins.

"At stake in this election are security and the stable development of our country. In my view, only PO [Civic Platform] guarantees that," Tusk said on Friday.

His opponents accuse him of lacking the courage to make ambitious reforms in a country with significant problems, such as high unemployment at around 11 per cent and heavy state regulation that allegedly stifles businesses.

Law and Justice leaders had promised more state involvement in the economy, including a bank tax and higher taxes for the rich, and vowed to wind down large-scale privatisation carried out since the PO took power in late 2007.

"If Poland becomes a strong, developed country, we won't have to privatise Polish companies, sell state firms for peanuts or privatise hospitals," Kaczynski told the Fakt tabloid.

Immediate challenge

Analysts believe Poland's main immediate challenge is to curb the public debt and deficit, which ballooned during the financial crisis.

Ratings agencies have said they could downgrade Poland if it does not swiftly act to reduce the budget deficit, expected to reach 5.6 per cent of gross domestic product this year, and the public debt, expected to reach 53.8 per cent of GDP this year.

Economists doubt Law and Justice would be able to meet the challenge and a short-term sell-off would be likely on Polish financial markets if it won.

The current coalition, however, has failed to deliver on the far-reaching liberal market reforms Tusk originally promised.

The rise in support for Palikot's Movement came as a surprise. It was founded by a maverick lawmaker, Janusz Palikot, who is with Poland's powerful Roman Catholic clergy and favors many liberal causes.

Palikot's party was in third place in some recent polls, ahead of some established parties, and appeared to be benefiting from voters' disillusionment and increasing secularism.

More than 30 million people were eligible to vote in the election.

[pjotr]

Exit polls: Civic Platform wins historic second term
9th October 2011
Donald Tusk is Poland's first Prime Minister since 1989 to be re-elected



Exit polls released at 9 pm showed that Civic Platform (PO) has won Poland's 2011 parliamentary elections, albeit with a smaller portion of the vote than in 2007. Exit polls showed that Civic Platform won 39.6 percent of the vote, slightly less than the 41 percent it won in the previous elections.

The results mean Prime Minister Donald Tusk will look to form a second government, and is therefore likely to become the first prime minister in Poland's post-communist history to gain a second consecutive term.

With the Polish People's Party (PSL) taking about 8.2 percent of the vote, it's possible that the PO-PSL government could endure without any coalition partners.

If another coalition partner is needed, it could either be the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD), which won 7.7 percent of the vote, or from Palikot's Movement (RP) which won 10.1 percent, according to exit polls, and was the surprise of the election.

RP, headed by the flamboyant former PO member Janusz Palikot, had all been counted out until about a month ago, when it began polling strongly.

Poland Comes First (PJN), made up of disgruntled former PiS members, did not make it past the 5 percent threshold needed to enter parliament, gaining just 2.2 percent of the vote, according to the exit polls.

From Warsaw Business Journal by Andrew Kureth

[tufta]

The exit polls say PO of Donald Tusk won, and won firmly!

Pieter, many Poles from intelligentsia who left free Poland (post-1989) or left earlier due to life danger from secret police, lack of meand fro survival, but did not come back when Poland became free - deep in their heart feel they have commited something arong. They were taught by parents and their whole millieu, that their duty is to serve Poland whatever happens. Thus they sometimes live in a peculiar state of the soul, trying to subconsciously perhaps, justify somehow their decision.

[pjotr]

Election night 2011 LIVE - Exit poll: second win predicted for Civic Platform


Tusk celebrates another victory: photo - PAP

If exit polls are correct then Prime Minister Donald Tusk's centre-right Civic Platform (PO) will be the largest party in parliament and will attempt to form another four-year coalition government in Poland.

23.40 CET: More details emerging from the TNS/OBOP exit poll. Forty two percent of female voters opted for Civic Platform, with 30 percent backing the more conservative Law and Justice.
23.30 CET: Dr. Anna Materska-Sosnowska, political scientist at Warsaw University, has told the PAP news agency she expects another four years of the status quo Civic Platform-Polish Peasant's Party (PSL) coalition.
She adds that the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD), on just 7.7 percent – and has again failed to win back support from a peak of 41 percent support in the 2001 elections - “needs to change its leader” if it is ever to become a serious player again. Grzegorz Napieralski's days need to be numbered, she says.
23.10 CET: The political map of Poland has become familiar and is confirmed by the exit poll for TVP and TVN television channels. Civic Platform won in 11 provinces, mainly in the north and west, and Law and Justice has won five provinces, mainly in the east of country.
23.00 CET: Janusz Palikot, who founded his new party only last year after he left the ruling Civic Platform because he thought they were too socially conservative, was overjoyed at getting 10 percent of the vote, nationwide, according to exit polls.
“This is phenomenal. Eighteen months ago, opinion polls gave the Palikot Movement from one to two percent [in support],” he said tonight.
Palikot has taken votes from socially liberal Civic Platform supporters and the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD), support for which has fallen to 7.7 percent from 13 percent in the last elections four years ago.
22.40 CET: The Economist foreign affairs editor Edward Lucas has told that, in the EU, there will be “sighs of relief [that Jaroslaw Kaczynski's party lost] particularly after Kaczynski's remarks about 'German imperialism'."
“Tusk has made Poland into a strong and reliable partner," thinks Edward.
Poland's six-month presidency has been “rather disappointing ” in setting agendas in the 27 nation bloc, however.
22.14: Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski (Civic Platform) has just said of possible coalition partners: "The prime minister has already ruled out cooperation with someone who champions the legalisation of narcotics."
22.10 CET: On the future of Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of the opposition Law and Justice party consigned to another deafeat, Marcin Sobczyk says: “He will fight on. He sees it as his duty to his dead brother [Lech, who died in the Smolensk air disaster last year]. He will be rampantly against gay rights [as Palikot has promised] and any change in the [strict] abortion laws.”
22.03 CET: Marcin Sobczyk, the Dow Jones Warsaw bureau chief told us tonight: “It looks like the current PO/PSL coalition can be in for another four years. The current parliament will have a more leftwing character [however] with the Palikot Movement getting 10 percent. The general mood will be far more leftist,” he said, referring to Palikot's promise to legalise soft drugs and his call for a clearer separation between church and state.
21.55: President Bronislaw Komorowski has said that: "I'd like to thank everyone who decided to cast their vote. The fight is now over. Now the difficult period of finding a coalition has started."
Official results will begin to trickle out later tonight and through the morning. If they resemble the exit polls then Donald Tusk will be casting around for coalition partners. Will he go again with PSL, or Palikot, or even SLD? No chance of forming a pact with arch-enemies Law and Justice.
21.45: Leader of PiS, Jaroslaw Kaczynski remained optimistic after what appears to be yet another defeat at the polls – he lost a presidential election last year, local and European elections, and the general election four years ago: "We will win [one day] because we are in the right. The day of victory is coming, because Poland needs change," he said at his party rally.
"I hope that they (the government) will fight with the finance crisis, and not with PiS."
21.38: Tusk has given his “thank you" speech at the Civic Platform party rally in Warsaw and has thanked all Poles for the vote of confidence.
"I remember the moment four years ago [on his first election win] with great happiness and enthusiasm when we received similar news. I want to thank all Poles who four years later confirmed that that vote made a profound sense – for Poland, for Poles, for us, Civic Platform."
"I'd like to thank all those who voted for us and those who didn't.... as for the next four years, we are going to work for everybody, regardless of how they voted."
21.10 CET - As polling stations closed at 9 pm, Sunday, in Poland's parliamentary elections, an exit poll for TVP public television by TNS/OBOP has given Civic Platform 39.9 percent to the conservative Law and Justice's (PiS) 30.1 percent of the vote.
In third place is the liberal Palikot Movement (RP) with 10.1 percent.
In fourth place comes the Polish Peasant's Party (PSL), the junior coalition partner in the outgoing government on 8.2 percent and in fifth is the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD) on 7.7 percent.
Under Poland's election rules, no other party would gain the five percent of the vote nationwide required to gain seats in Poland's lower house of parliament, the Sejm.
If correct then this is a historic result: Civic Platform will be the first ever party to win two consecutive terms in government since 1989 in Poland, though they must look once more for a coalition partner. (pg)

Online reporting by Peter Gentle

[pjotr]

Oct 9, 2011 22:48:11 GMT 1 tufta said:

The exit polls say PO of Donald Tusk won, and won firmly!

Pieter, many Poles from intelligentsia who left free Poland (post-1989) or left earlier due to life danger from secret police, lack of means for survival, but did not come back when Poland became free - deep in their heart feel they have commited something wrong. They were taught by their parents and their whole millieu, that it is their duty is to serve Poland whatever happens. Thus they sometimes live in a peculiar state of the soul, trying to subconsciously perhaps, justify somehow their decision.

Tufta,

First of all congratulations with the winning of Donald Tusks Platforma Obywatelska (Civic Platform), secondly, how do you look today at your criticism on the lack of tax reform of the PO-PSL government two years ago? Does the present government invest enough in Research & Development (=advanced education and progress in science and technology)?

Pieter, many Poles from intelligentsia who left free Poland (post-1989) or left earlier due to life danger from secret police, lack of means for survival, but did not come back when Poland became free - deep in their heart feel they have commited something wrong. They were taught by their parents and their whole millieu, that it is their duty is to serve Poland whatever happens. Thus they sometimes live in a peculiar state of the soul, trying to subconsciously perhaps, justify somehow their decision.

Tufta,

Some of them choose a new fatherland, adobted the language and culture of the new fatherland, married to a man or woman from their new homeland, integrated and assimilated. They are lost for Poland and they have to live with their own conciousness, layers of adaption,
nostalgia and melancholia, dreams and lost connections with Poland. Others have a dual identity. They made their life in the country they live in but kept their Polishness and travel a lot to Poland. Some of them own or rent a house or appartment in Poland and live in two countries (like an old Polish friend of my mother who lives in Michigan, but has an appartment in Warsaw).

If someone was tortured or terrorised by the Urząd Bezpieczeństwa and the Służba Bezpieczeństwa, I can imagine that they have a hard time going back to Poland, because bad memories, streets, buildings, squares, parks, people and atmosphere can hunt them. The Hungarian father of a half-Hungarian friend of mine could never go back to Hungary, due to what the Hungarian Stalinists had done to him. He was a broken man in the Netherlands, very tragic. My friend had a difficult relationship with his (depressed) father. I am sure some Poles (not all dissident refugees were like that) had the same experiances as this Hungarian in the Netherlands.

Yes, you have opportunistic, unpatriotic Poles who left Poland for their own gain, who don't care about Poland and their Polishness, but you have many Poles in the Polish diaspora who remained Polish and in fact have an old fashionate Polishness and in some cases new Polishness, because they created their very Polish ethnic, cultural and religious (Polish Roman Catholic) communities.

Cheers,
Pieter

P.S.- My half Hungarian friend like me has something with Central- and Eastern-Europe due to his roots. Despite his difficult relationship with his father he has very good connections with his fathers Hungarian family in Budapest, and he loves Hungary and Romania.

[pjotr]

Poland’s ruling coalition gets re-elected

WARSAW—the center-right party of Prime Minister Donald Tusk has become the first pre-war and post-Soviet-era political grouping ever to win re-election in Poland which up till now has been functioning in a backlash mode. Right-wing rule has normally ended in victory by the left which in turn got swept away by a rightist group, only to be replaced by resurgent leftists and so on. What’s more, all previous coalition governments in the past 22-year post-communist period fell apart even before the end of their four-year- term.
With 39% voter support, Tusk’s pro-business, mildly conservative Civic Platform (Platforma Obywatelska = PO) party will be able to resume its tested and fairly tranquil coalition with its junior partner, the Polish Peasant Party (Polskie Stronnictwo Ludowe = PSL). The PSL won only 10% of the vote but together the two parties will have a slim majority in the 460-seat Sejm (lower house), enough to force government-backed legislation through parliament.



The PO’s secret appears to lie largely in its cleverly worded propaganda which struck a respondent chord with many Polish voters. Relying heavily on political marketing experts, image consultants and makeup artists, Tusk’s party told people what they wanted to hear but was always willing to backtrack whenever support began to wane. Although Tusk had pledged no tax increases, his government raised the VAT sales tax, sending up the prices of most goods and services. And his government’s grandiose highway-construction program ahead of the 2012 European Soccer Finals, co-hosted by Poland and Ukraine, has fallen short of expectations.
But, as an unmatched expert in crisis management, the 58-year-old Tusk has been able to talk his way out of every failure, saying things like “We’re not perfect, but we’re doing our best!” After campaign posters bearing the portrait of his short and frumpy arch-rival Jaros³aw Kaczyñski appeared all over the country and the moderately handsome Tusk was asked whether he had similar plans, he coyly replied: “No, I’m not good-looking enough.”
A major theme of Tusks’ campaign was continuity. Taking credit for the fact that Poland was the only European country which did not slip into recession during the ongoing global crisis, the prime minister pledged continued stability and warned against changing horses in midstream. He also warned of the dire consequences of a return to power of Kaczyñski’s national-conservative Law and Justice (Prawo i Sprawiedliwoœæ = PiS) party which he repeatedly accused of advocating revenge, hatred and aggression.
The biggest surprise of the October 9th elections was the success of dark-horse Janusz Palikot, who broke off from Tusk’s PO last year to set up his own group immodestly called the Palikot Support Movement (Ruch Poparcia Palikota = RPP). Although early surveys had shown the RPP to be below the five percent threshold required to win parliamentary seats, it ultimately won nearly 10% of the vote. A millionaire businessman, Palikot ran on a libertine-leftist anti-Church platform supporting homosexual marriage, abortion on demand and legalizing marijuana.
It won the support of some younger voters disenchanted with the mainstream political stage and siphoned off quite a few votes from the post-communist Democratic Left Alliance (Sojusz Lewicy Demokratycznej = SLD). Palikot is known for his street happenings which include downing tiny airline-sized bottles of vodka in the street to ridicule the alleged drunkenness of former President Lech Kaczyñski. At present, RPP members pledge an oath to fight for “a modern, progressive, tolerant and friendly Poland”, while raising a Hitler-like salute.
Maybe Tusk’s politically marketed glibness and Palikot’s off-the-wall antics only shows that Poland has finally joined the “modern” age, where celebrity imaging and offbeat goings-on have been increasingly setting the tone for political campaigns the world over.


www.ruchpoparciapalikota.pl/

Source: Jaga (other Proboards Polish culture Forum)

[tufta]

Oct 9, 2011 23:22:26 GMT 1 pjotr said:

Does the present government invest enough in Research & Development (=advanced education and progress in science and technology)?

I have no present data, Pieter. I don't think so.

If someone was tortured or terrorised by the Urząd Bezpieczeństwa and the Służba Bezpieczeństwa, I can imagine that they have a hard time going back to Poland,

Such cases were more numerous in fifties, sixties. Bartoszewski, Niesio³owski, Michnik, Romaszewski and many many others are examples of ppl who nonetheless could do something good for Poland.

In the late 80-ties and later on, post-1989 in free Poland, there were no such cases.

Anyway, it is no problem 'no coming back to Poland', as anyone may choose where to live. That's what the whole fight was for, among other hallmarks of personal liberty. I was rather addressing the phenomenon of painting Poland black by some intelliigentsia families-derived Poles who left and justify their decision by exaggerated line of thought: I did a good thing, people are still leaving Poland, it can't be that good there.

[pjotr]

Oct 11, 2011 14:35:20 GMT 1 tufta said:

Such cases were more numerous in fifties, sixties. Bartoszewski, Niesio³owski, Michnik, Romaszewski and many many others are examples of ppl who nonetheless could do something good for Poland.

In the late 80-ties and later on, post-1989 in free Poland, there were no such cases.

Anyway, it is no problem 'no coming back to Poland', as anyone may choose where to live. That's what the whole fight was for, among other hallmarks of personal liberty. I was rather addressing the phenomenon of painting Poland black by some intelliigentsia families-derived Poles who left and justify their decision by exaggerated line of thought: I did a good thing, people are still leaving Poland, it can't be that good there.

Tufta,

You mentioned Bartoszewski, Niesiolowski, Michnik, Romaszewski as examples of people who could do something good for Poland despite the treatment they received of the Polish Communist authorities during the Peoples Republic of Poland. Do you also have examples of these intelliigentsia families-derived Poles who painted Poland black.
I am living in a Western-European country and don't know such Poles. Maybe they are more visible in Germany, Great-Britain and the USA. I know that my mother was and is critical of bad things done by Poles abroad and inside Poland. But she never painted a black image of Poland in public. *Her critical view or opinion of the Polish American Diaspora for instance was due her own roots and experiance with REAL Poland before she left Poland, when she went back to Communist Poland to visit her parents, family and friends regulary (in the sixtees, seventees, eightees) and democratic Poland in the ninetees. She gave me a realistic image of the country, people and culture of the country of her birth, family, upbringing and career.
Poland and Polish culture and history would not have been important to me if my mother would not have raised me with a positive image of Poland. My connection to Poland is through my mother, and she is a member of the Dutch Polish diaspora, eventhough she is not part of any Polish organisation or community. She is part of the Polish diaspora, because she is has Polish roots, the Polish language and is connected with Poland. Her father was a member of a Polish schlachtza intelligentsia family. He was a Polish patriot until his death in Poznan. She was raised Polish friendly, and her father told his daughters who went to America and the Netherlands to marry, "always stay a Polish patriot". And I think they did.

Cheers,
Pieter

* An artificial, folklorist, American version of the real, authentic Polish culture inside Poland, which in her and my view is maintained by the Poles who stayed in Poland. For instance fierce Polish nationalistic Polish-Americans who do not speak a word of Polish. My mother stil has Polish telephone conversations with relatives in Poland and America and stil writes and reads Polish books and her Polish encyclopedia. Ofcourse she does not know present day Poland that well, because she is older and has not the energy and ability to travel regulary to Poland. But the contacts with Poznan and Warsaw continue.

[tufta]

Yes, the guys I've mentioned are good examples that being tortured, imoprisoned in the 1950ties or 1960ties does not neccesarily means leaving Poland. In these particular cases those men -in spite of the terryfing experiences, not only did remain in Poland, but seved her well.
While what you ask is teh namess of those individual cases, almost every Poles who has contact with Polonia, real or virtual, is aware of. They are however - in cotnrast to those I have named, NOT public persons. So I don't think I would do teh right thing to name them in a public place, like this forum.
While if you, Pieter, did have in mind some public personae who did leave Poland due to secret police torture, and that is the reason of their stay abroad, I'd very much welcom such info -as I can'y think of any.

[pjotr]

Oct 12, 2011 10:58:27 GMT 1 tufta said:

Yes, the guys I've mentioned are good examples that being tortured, imoprisoned in the 1950ties or 1960ties does not neccesarily means leaving Poland. In these particular cases those men -in spite of the terryfing experiences, not only did remain in Poland, but seved her well.
While what you ask is teh namess of those individual cases, almost every Poles who has contact with Polonia, real or virtual, is aware of. They are however - in cotnrast to those I have named, NOT public persons. So I don't think I would do teh right thing to name them in a public place, like this forum.
While if you, Pieter, did have in mind some public personae who did leave Poland due to secret police torture, and that is the reason of their stay abroad, I'd very much welcom such info -as I can'y think of any.

Tufta,

A historical example of immigration of Polish intelligentsia. What remains of these Polish artisticrats, poets, artists and Patriots of the 19th century in the Polonia over the world and Poland?

Polish Romanticism

The Polish intelligentsia, along with leading members of its government, left Poland in the early 1830s, during what is referred to as the "Great Emigration," resettling in France, Germany, Great Britain, Turkey, and the United States. While the Polish émigrés were enthusiastically received in their new countries, they longed to return to Poland after what they hoped would be an all-European revolution that would restore the Romantic principles of liberty and individual as well as national rights. Since many foremost Polish emigrants relocated in Paris, that city emerged as the most important center for Polish Romantic literature in the period between 1830 and 1850. Characterized by its rich intellectual environment, the Polish émigré community carried on a lively political, philosophical, and literary tradition that nourished its writers and poets. Because these Polish artists could not conceive of a lost fatherland, their works were intensely patriotic, revolutionary, and enriched by elements from Polish history and folk tradition. As George Brandes has written, "It is as if the poets had felt that their mission was to give the people spiritual nourishment and a spiritual tonic to support them on their way." Adam Mickiewicz, with his expressive, nationalistic verse, emerged as the chief poetic voice of the Polish émigré community and exemplified the dominant traits of the movement. Besides his love for Poland, the other chief influences on his style were the spiritualism of the mystic Andrew Towiański and the notion of the poet as freedom fighter, at that time most closely identified with the English poet Lord Byron.

Cultural examples of Polish intelligent cultural presence in my environment (loca/regional/national) are these:

www.yordan.eu/ / www.myspace.com/yordanorchestra
www.miriammoczko.com/
www.stichtingplon.eu/Stichting_PLON/PLON_Polonia.html
www.tavpolen.nl/index_eng.html

[tufta]

Hi Pieter!
I will have to get more accustomed with Jordan Orchestra and Miriam Moczko, never heard of them.
However, I do sincerely hope, you don't compare directly the Great Emmigration of 19th century and its cultural and intellectual (also political) weight with - mostly - economic, 'petty' emmigration of the early 1990.

[pjotr]

Oct 13, 2011 7:57:00 GMT 1 tufta said:

Hi Pieter!
I will have to get more accustomed with Jordan Orchestra and Miriam Moczko, never heard of them.
However, I do sincerely hope, you don't compare directly the Great Emmigration of 19th century and its cultural and intellectual (also political) weight with - mostly - economic, 'petty' emmigration of the early 1990.

Tufta,

Yordan Orchestra and Miriam Moczko are cultural, creative and artistic phenomena in Arnhem, the Eastern part of the Netherlands, with Polish roots, soul and a crossover of Polish, German and Dutch influences. They are part of the Music community of musicians in Arnhem, because they are professional skilled musicians. Both Jacek from Yordan Orchestra and Miriam, are Poles raised in Germany who moved to the Netherlands (if I say it or get it correctly).
Yordan orchestra is made of a Dutch lady singer (with Fashion roots) and a Polish guy Jacek (who grew up in Germany and the Netherlands and has Polish parents)

They are a cosmopolitan, international offspring of the Polish diaspora or Polonia. They are part of the art and music scene of the city they live and work in. But they maintained a special Polishness. How they look, their names and their way of making music. Both international and very Polish.

Piotr Gardecki is a Polish painter and drawer I met in Arnhem when he had an exhibition two years ago. He lives and works in Wroclaw, but worked and exhibited in the Netherlands, Scotland, Germany and Poland (I presume). Therefor in the Netherlands and in Western-Europe we often get an immage of Poland though the experiance with the Polonia and temporary staying Polish Poles. There is a large differance between differant kinds of Poles in Western-Europe.

Cheers,
Pieter

[pjotr]

Oct 13, 2011 7:57:00 GMT 1 tufta said:

Hi Pieter!
I will have to get more accustomed with Jordan Orchestra and Miriam Moczko, never heard of them.
However, I do sincerely hope, you don't compare directly the Great Emmigration of 19th century and its cultural and intellectual (also political) weight with - mostly - economic, 'petty' emmigration of the early 1990.

Tufta,

Ofcourse I don't compare directly the Great Emmigration of 19th century and its cultural and intellectual (also political) weight with the - mostly - economic, 'petty' emigration of the early 1990. The cultural and intellectual element in the modern Polish emigration of the late 20th century and early 21th century is a tiny, small percentage if you compare it with the Great Emigration of the 19th century of the Polish revolutionairies, poets, writers, scientists, philosophers and thinkers. Today I think the best Poles are in Poland or stayed in Poland. Because these people knew that Poland is free and that they had to stay and built up Poland. I some times hope that the best elements of the Polish Diaspora will remigrate to Poland to deliver their contribution. But I know that most Polonia people stay abroad.

Cheers,
Pieter

[valpomike]

Will the election outcome be good or bad for Poland and why?


Mike

[pjotr]

Oct 13, 2011 17:16:15 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Will the election outcome be good or bad for Poland and why?

Mike

Good question! What is your own opinion Mike?

[valpomike]

Pjotr,

I myself, don't know, since I don't live in Poland, and the only news I get is slanted.
In asking others, they don't know either. I hoped that the people of Poland, who live there, will help me on this.

Mike

[pjotr]

Fair answer, I agree with you that people of Poland can help you with this!

I asked the same question. Bonobo and Tufta know the answer!

[tufta]

PJotr and Valpomike,
to answer your question - I think it would be best if you work out your own point of view. Bonobo and Tufta, the people of Poland, know their own answers not some objective truth.

My personal opinion is - yes. Out of all the possibilities available at this election Poles did choose the best.

If you'd like to follow the news from Poland on your own, there are several portals, information outlets in English, so you can understand easily (i.e. without on-line translating). For instance:

www.thenews.pl/

www.wbj.pl/

wiadomosci.radiozet.pl/Poland-in-English/

[tufta]

News outlets (in fact the portals of major paper weekly magazines). Using them will be more difficult, as wil require effort to translate i.e with translate.google.pl/#. This translator is getting better and additional reward would be - having own opinion. Those four links provide - cover the whole spectrum of interpretations, visions of Poland.

www.wprost.pl/

www.polityka.pl/

www.newsweek.pl/

tygodnik.onet.pl/

[valpomike]

Thank you, I trust your judgement on this, since you are a smart man of the world.

Mike

[pjotr]

Oct 15, 2011 16:59:51 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Thank you, I trust your judgement on this, since you are a smart man of the world.

Mike

I share the same view, so my answer is the same as Mike.

Yes, I know Tufta, that your opinion and the of Bonobo are subjective, but even though that is the fact I am interested in your subjective opinions (thoughts), answers to our questions and personal ideas, because they show the variety of Polish views next to the Polish news sources you mentioned. I take your and Bonobo's (Pawians) views serious, because they are opinions from a interesting Varsovian and Krakovian from Poland. A real Polish view from Poland and not just a distant opinion from a diaspora Pole from abroad from some kind of Polonia, who distantiated himself from Poland by emigrating.

Cheers,
Pieter

[pjotr]

Oct 15, 2011 5:19:44 GMT 1 tufta said:

PJotr and Valpomike,
to answer your question - I think it would be best if you work out your own point of view. Bonobo and Tufta, the people of Poland, know their own answers not some objective truth.

My personal opinion is - yes. Out of all the possibilities available at this election Poles did choose the best.

If you'd like to follow the news from Poland on your own, there are several portals, information outlets in English, so you can understand easily (i.e. without on-line translating). For instance:

www.thenews.pl/

www.wbj.pl/

wiadomosci.radiozet.pl/Poland-in-English/

Tufta,

I have learned a great deal from you about Poland in our open Forum and private discussions. I know your view is a Central-Polish view from a capital citizen, but in the same time you are a traveled man who can compare places, countries and cities.

Cheers,
Pieter

[tufta]

From another site:

""Do expatriates who have left the UK or in fact expatriates of any other country of which they are natives have the right to then criticize and give advice to their native country fallen on hard times and so justifying their timely exit? The analogy of rats leaving the sinking ship comes to mind. Of course, they have the right to speak their mind BUT those expatriates should not be surprised if readers of their comments are tempted to read something else into their sentiments expressed, i.e. self-justification for their departure from a feeling of guilt perhaps or nostalgia for the mother country after realizing perhaps that, warts and all, it is providing a feeling of belonging, the creature comforts of being amongst people of one's own kind, of sharing their happy times and difficult times as should be, like in a family. A feeling of belonging which no amount of sunshine can make up for. I know what I am talking about, having been, as a German, an expatriate in the Far East for many years, whilst my prolonged sojourns in the UK and France never felt like being ex patria, rather more like being with the extended family. The Far East, however, always felt alien and despite not wanting to have missed the mostly pleasant experience of living and working there, I was always deeply nostalgic for Europe in general and Germany in particular and would never have thought of criticizing it much.""