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Post by valpomike on May 25, 2008 18:07:16 GMT 1
Gays have a place, but they must keep to them selfs, not flaunt it in public.
Here we have, what are called, Gay Bashers, and I think it is wrong, but some action must be taken against them.
Gays are not born that way, it is a choice they made.
I don't buy the idea it comes from other things, it is not medical, as some think.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on May 25, 2008 18:57:06 GMT 1
Gays are not born that way, it is a choice they made. Sorry, but I disagree with you Mike. I don't think anyone would choose to be homosexual. Why would they? I cannot imagine it would be fun to feel confused about your sexuality, then have to face coming out to family and friends (or live a secret life if you don't), then be judged constantly by society and restricted in how you can express your personal feelings. That sounds pretty rotten to me. |
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Post by Bonobo on May 25, 2008 21:39:57 GMT 1
Gays are not born that way, it is a choice they made. Sorry, but I disagree with you Mike. I don't think anyone would choose to be homosexual. Why would they? I cannot imagine it would be fun to feel confused about your sexuality, then have to face coming out to family and friends (or live a secret life if you don't), then be judged constantly by society and restricted in how you can express your personal feelings. That sounds pretty rotten to me. Researchers has already found out it is mostly of genetic origin. |
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Post by valpomike on May 27, 2008 0:09:31 GMT 1
Most gays love there life style, and flaunt it in front of all. They just want to be different, than the rest. And most gays are happy.
Why not, they don't know better.
Saying it is medical, is like saying the earth is flat. This is old research.
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Post by locopolaco on May 27, 2008 0:29:14 GMT 1
mike, guys are made that way. doesn't seem a choice. like gigi already said, who would choose to be gay?
and what does that supposed to mean? sounds like gay bashing.
where are you getting your research from? the pope? hehe
besides, who cares.. why not just live and let live?
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Post by valpomike on May 27, 2008 17:13:47 GMT 1
If only to them selfs.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on May 27, 2008 20:52:41 GMT 1
Most gays love there life style, and flaunt it in front of all. They just want to be different, than the rest. And most gays are happy. I'm not sure that they want to be different, but they recognize and celebrate the fact that they are. By flaunting it I assume you mean some of the "exaggerated" dress, mannerisms, etc. that have become the stereotype for all homosexuals (though usually this is seen more with men than women). If you mean PDAs, there are plenty of heterosexuals who carry that a bit too far. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 5, 2008 20:34:27 GMT 1
Most gays love there life style, and flaunt it in front of all. They just want to be different, than the rest. And most gays are happy. I'm not sure that they want to be different, but they recognize and celebrate the fact that they are. By flaunting it I assume you mean some of the "exaggerated" dress, mannerisms, etc. that have become the stereotype for all homosexuals (though usually this is seen more with men than women). If you mean PDAs, there are plenty of heterosexuals who carry that a bit too far. I suppose Mike meant the oppennes and sincerity with which gay people talk about their preferences. That they are not afraid to reveal it to the world. |
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Post by valpomike on Jun 5, 2008 21:09:06 GMT 1
Yes, sir.
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Post by locopolaco on Jun 6, 2008 4:00:38 GMT 1
that's pretty much the only thing that bothers me with gay people.
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 6, 2008 22:20:02 GMT 1
that's pretty much the only thing that bothers me with gay people. Why do you feel bothered? Don`t people have the right to express themselves? |
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Post by valpomike on Jun 7, 2008 1:00:23 GMT 1
But don't try and force your life style on others, and put in there faces.
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Post by locopolaco on Jun 7, 2008 1:00:39 GMT 1
they can express themselves but not about sex, not in public anyway. do you go around telling everyone that you're straight? i don't give a .... what anyone does in their bedroom but that is not the first thing i need to know about someone.
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Post by valpomike on Jun 7, 2008 1:01:27 GMT 1
Are you gay?
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Post by locopolaco on Jun 7, 2008 19:17:37 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 7, 2008 20:27:15 GMT 1
No, I am not. I have never thought of changing my straight preferences which started to show up already at the age of 5 in my kindergarten. But I am only 40 and everything might happen. There is a saying: never say never. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D hahahahahahahahahahahaha |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 7, 2008 21:34:52 GMT 1
Warsaw saw Tolerance parade today. 3000 gay rights activists and 100 protesters. www.tvn24.pl/-1,1552910,wiadomosc.html  |
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Post by valpomike on Jun 7, 2008 22:56:47 GMT 1
I asked PL and he never answered.
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 7, 2008 23:28:35 GMT 1
I asked PL and he never answered. He did, with a link to a cartoon about quasi marriages. Look above. |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 24, 2008 22:00:12 GMT 1
Polish gays and lesbians stay in the closet at work
thenews.pl
22.06.2008
According to the Campaign Against Homophobia (KPH), 85 percent of Polish gays and lesbians do not reveal their sexual orientation at
work for fear of discrimination.
According to the organisation, labour unions should start taking
care of their problems.
The KPH organised an international conference in Warsaw on the role of trade unions in fighting discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. Representatives of Polish and foreign trade unions were present.
According to KPH leader Robert Biedron, Polish homosexuals stay in
the closet, because they are afraid of losing their jobs and being
ridiculed by coworkers. He added that 85 percent of Polish gays and
lesbians do not disclose their sexual orientation at work. He also
said that the Polish society is against homosexuals displaying their
orientation.
I must say I don`t know personally any gays now. I used to when I was at university, but not now.
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Post by jeanne on Jun 25, 2008 12:02:22 GMT 1
Polish gays and lesbians stay in the closet at work
thenews.pl
22.06.2008
According to the Campaign Against Homophobia (KPH), 85 percent of Polish gays and lesbians do not reveal their sexual orientation at
work for fear of discrimination.
According to the organisation, labour unions should start taking
care of their problems.
The KPH organised an international conference in Warsaw on the role of trade unions in fighting discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. Representatives of Polish and foreign trade unions were present.
According to KPH leader Robert Biedron, Polish homosexuals stay in
the closet, because they are afraid of losing their jobs and being
ridiculed by coworkers. He added that 85 percent of Polish gays and
lesbians do not disclose their sexual orientation at work. He also
said that the Polish society is against homosexuals displaying their
orientation.
I must say I don`t know personally any gays now. I used to when I was at university, but not now. I certainly do not believe in discriminating against gays, but...just wondering...why on earth would it be necessary to disclose one's sexual preference at work? What would be the point? I work with a man who is gay, everyone knows he is, but I don't think he has ever come out and told anyone...Aren't we supposed to be focused on our work at work?? |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Jun 26, 2008 2:42:43 GMT 1
...just wondering...why on earth would it be necessary to disclose one's sexual preference at work? What would be the point? Social interactions are often common in the workplace, so I suppose if people have developed close personal relationships with co-workers they may share their sexual preference with them. Not necessarily as an announcement of "Hey, I'm gay", but maybe it comes up when someone asks if the person is dating anyone. |
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Post by jeanne on Jun 27, 2008 1:18:19 GMT 1
...just wondering...why on earth would it be necessary to disclose one's sexual preference at work? What would be the point? Social interactions are often common in the workplace, so I suppose if people have developed close personal relationships with co-workers they may share their sexual preference with them. Not necessarily as an announcement of "Hey, I'm gay", but maybe it comes up when someone asks if the person is dating anyone. I guess you're right, gigi. I think I've just been out of that dating loop too long to remember what it's like. Plus, I work in elementary education and there is a distinct shortage of men in that field, so my workplace is for the most part devoid of that social interaction drama....unless....some of the women are lesbians and aren't letting on...that could be too! |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Jun 27, 2008 16:08:40 GMT 1
I found this when running a search on news in Poland. It's from a CitizenSugar acticle from March 2008, but I have not seen it before. You're minding your own business, when all of a sudden you find out the president of Poland using your wedding footage to bolster his argument against gay marriage and saying that your life would be "against the universally accepted moral order in Poland and force our country to introduce an institution in conflict with the moral convictions of the decided majority of our country."
That's exactly what happened one New York man, Brendan Fay. Upon learning that Polish President Lech Kaczynski had interwoven the video of his wedding into a speech warning against the dangers of adopting the new EU constitutional treaty that could open the door to same-sex marriage in Poland, Fay fought back. Describing the experience he said, "I started getting translations of the phrase the president used as the image appeared... My reaction was just really... I thought, 'oh my God, what an insult.'"
An insult he wasn't going to accept...Fay has filed a complaint against the president with the Polish consulate. He said, "Our images clearly were being used in a campaign by the president of Poland against lesbian and gay persons, and fostering intolerance and fear among the people of Poland."
The story has brought to light some of Kaczynski's historical positions on homosexuality. For instance as mayor of Warsaw, he refused to grant parade permits for gay rights marches. Kaczynski's twin brother has also served as prime minister during which time he said, "it's not in the interest of any society to increase the number of homosexuals."
Can you imagine seeing your wedding video co-opted and used in a political speech? For those of you who live in Poland, did you ever see this? Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality and same-sex marriages, this is just not right.  |
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Post by Bonobo on Jun 28, 2008 2:27:01 GMT 1
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Jun 28, 2008 2:39:21 GMT 1
Gigi, I know you registered in May, but you told us you had caught up with all existing threads.... No, not all of them, and I have been reading through some of them quickly in an attempt to "catch up". Sorry for the redundancy...  |
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Post by valpomike on Jul 1, 2008 20:03:10 GMT 1
Why do Gays want and do, flaunt their lifestyle for all of us? I think if I were gay, I would keep it to myself and the others who cared, only.
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Post by Bonobo on Jul 1, 2008 23:15:54 GMT 1
Why do Gays want and do, flaunt their lifestyle for all of us? I think if I were gay, I would keep it to myself and the others who cared, only. Probably flaunting it as you say is gay reaction to being suppressed for so long... it took centuries to win the rights they have now, and in some countries, Iran, gays are punished with death. I certainly don`t approve of it...  Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad skirted a question about the treatment of homosexuals in Iran on Monday, saying in a speech at a top US university that there were no gays in Iran.
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country," Ahmadinejad said to howls and boos among the Columbia University audience.
"In Iran we do not have this phenomenon, I don't know who has told you that we have it," he said.
Ahmadinejad was challenged during his appearance on Amnesty International figures that suggested that 200 people had been executed in Iran so far this year, among them homosexuals.
"Don't you have capital punishment in the United States? You do too. In Iran there is capital punishment," he said.
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Jul 2, 2008 16:25:49 GMT 1
Probably flaunting it as you say is gay reaction to being suppressed for so long... Interesting point. History is filled with examples of people "flaunting their rights" - especially after years of repression - but when when you add conflicting religious beliefs into the mix it really gets everyone stirred up. I respect people who have very strong religious beliefs, but I have always struggled with the idea that the rest of us are "wrong" if we don't share them. Sorry, I'm kind of getting off of the topic here, it is just something that has bothered me for a long time... |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on Sept 17, 2008 16:49:27 GMT 1
First Same-Sex Humanistic Marriage in Poland Monday, September 1, 2008 Wojciech Zaluski On the second of August the first humanistic marriage ceremony of two people of the same sex was held in Poland. Under the auspices of the Polish Association of Rationalists, two women living together as long-time partners, with the company of family and friends, succeeded in showing their devotion and love to the public. The two women also had a second ceremony which took place in the Reformed Catholic Church, which does not require partners to be of different sexes. During the humanistic ceremony one of the partners, Katarzyna Formela, stated: "Since the beginning of our relationship we were seeking to formalise our relations, to show through marriage that we are a family. Through the marriage, we wanted to underline a change that happened when we decided to be together. It is a very important change in our lives, and we would like to show this to others, so we are perceived as a family and not only ? like earlier ? as separate persons. The humanistic marriage, preceding the religious one, gave us such an opportunity today. Our will is that we are treated as a regular married couple."
The first humanistic marriage was taken in 2007. Mariusz Agnosiewicz, the president of the Polish Association of Rationalists, states that the idea was to bring the possibility of a marriage ceremony to atheists and non-religious people who feel the need for it. In his opinion, ?the strength of Catholicism lies amongst other things, but people need ceremonies, not Catholic beliefs.? The candidates first meet with the representatives of the association so they can figure it out what values and ideas are at stake. The Humanist Manifesto 2000, available on the website of the association, among many things, stresses the importance of individual ethical growth based on tolerance and respect. Asked about the feelings that he had leading his first marriage ceremony, Agnosiewicz said: "It was beautiful, some people had tears in their eyes. Even sceptics where charmed. From later ceremonies, I especially recall the 'bicycle marriage' in the university gardens. The young couple came to know each other while biking, and their marriage ceremony was preceded by a bicycle trip around Warsaw to places important to them. Instead of a traditional suit, the bridegroom wore a bicycle outfit, and the bribe was gliding on her bike in a wedding gown."
According to article 18 of the Polish constitution, marriage is defined as a relationship between a man and a woman, which is under the protection of the Polish state. In addition, the Civil Code of Family and Care also defines marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman. Samuel Nowak, the Culture for Tolerance Foundation president and organiser of the Krakow Gay and Lesbian Culture Festival, supports the idea of legalisation of homosexual relationships: "We don't see the reason why same-sex relationships can't have the same rights as heterosexual relationships. It is in the Polish state?s interest to raise the quality of life of its citizens, but it is not the job of the administration to say with whom adults should unite. The state is obliged to take care of heterosexual as well as homosexual couples. Otherwise we have the privilege of the former, although there is no justification for such."
The point that Nowak makes about the administration not interfering with the private affairs of its citizens finds a bitter conclusion in recent news from Gazeta Wyborcza. On the 25th of August the newspaper wrote about the Polish Registry Office, which lost a court case with Marzena K., who asked to receive a certificate stating that she is single, and which the office workers refused to provide.
In order to get married in Poland, a person has to present a document stating that he or she is single, which can be acquired in the Polish Registry Office. Such documents can be provided if a person intends to get married to a person of the opposite sex, in accordance with Polish law. But if a person from Poland wants to enter a civil partnership, not marriage, with a German citizen of the same sex in Germany, where such partnerships are legal, that person is also obliged to present a document stating that he or she is single, based on a German law from 2001.
That is why Marzena K. applied for the certificate from the Polish Registry Office, which she needed in order to conclude her civil relationship with another woman in Germany. But because it was a partnership and not a marriage, the office workers refused to issue such a certificate.
Gazeta Wyborcza informs that in reference to the law in Germany from 2001, in 2002 the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland gave a special disposition that in mentioned cases the Polish Registry Office should give a certificate which states that a person is single, not adding that the certificate is for marriage purposes.
For unknown reasons the office workers would not do so. Wyborcza quotes Robert Biedron, chief of the Campaign Against Homophobia, who speculates about the hypothetical reasons why the office workers kept refusing: "They are afraid that someone may lay a claim against them. Or maybe they don't accept such relationships personally and try not to allow them."
Surely the case shows that the debate and struggle between different attitudes to homosexual relationships will continue in Poland. www.krakowpost.com/articles/2008/09/01/1154.html |
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