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Post by Bonobo on Apr 26, 2008 23:30:57 GMT 1
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Post by locopolaco on Apr 27, 2008 3:48:16 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 27, 2008 8:17:04 GMT 1
As I said, most Poles don`t care about gay parades. If they are not against, then it means they accept. If they were against, there would be thousands of them coming to protest, not only 150 protesters from right wing organizations. Besides, the parades get the permission of city councils or mayors. They are representatives of the state. It means that in this case there is no repression of gay movement by the state. What is more, they receive the police protection which costs something too. I forgot to ask this question before: Who knows the history of gay movements in the West? I am sure there were anti-gay protests and riots too. When did they stop? |
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Post by valpomike on Apr 27, 2008 16:46:58 GMT 1
Did they stop, and should they?
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Post by jeanne on Apr 27, 2008 16:57:58 GMT 1
I forgot to ask this question before: Who knows the history of gay movements in the West? I am sure there were anti-gay protests and riots too. When did they stop? I am certainly not an expert on this, but I do remember a few things. I don't recall any actual riots, but protests, yes. I'm not sure that they have stopped. I live near Boston, which has a large population of Irish descent. St. Patrick's Day is a big deal there, with much celebrating. In the past there was a big controversy when Gays wanted to march in the St Patrick's Day parade. People protested that since the parade had a religious origin that this was not appropriate. Since the organizers/sponsors of the parade were from a private, not public, organization, (I believe) courts upheld that the Gays could be barred from the parade. There have also been protests on the part of the gay community against various groups, most notably the Catholic Church. I can remember that one spring, as guests were exiting the cathedral in Boston after celebrating the ordination of new priests, protesting gays spattered them with mustard... Then, there is the issue of Gay marriage. My state, Massachusetts, is the only state in US where Gay marriage is recognized. Some other states have what they call 'civil unions', but only Massachusetts gives it the actual name of 'marriage'. This, as you can imagine, is very controversial. State judges decided the case. The state has a law that if enough people sign a petition to get the issue on the ballot, then the people can vote to decide the issue. Opponants of gay marriage obtained thousands more signatures than needed to get the issue on the ballot, but the state legislature refused to confront the issue and move ahead with putting it on the ballot and letting the citizens decide because they did not want to aggravate the gay population. So they chose to disregard the law for this special interest group. So...gay marriage remains in this state. This has spawned a whole movement of trying to define what marriage actually is, so the controversy rages on. Many state governments and some people in federal government want to define marriage as being between one man and one woman. Some states have actually gone ahead and legislated this. Who knows where this will all end. Personally, I am against discrimination against people because of their sexual orientation, but I believe the issue of marriage is a different case. There are existing laws that certain relatives cannot marry, so it's not without precedent to require conditions for marriage. When you can show me a gay couple that can naturally conceive a child between them, then I'll reconsider, but until then, I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 28, 2008 18:36:38 GMT 1
I live near Boston, which has a large population of Irish descent. St. Patrick's Day is a big deal there, with much celebrating. In the past there was a big controversy when Gays wanted to march in the St Patrick's Day parade. People protested that since the parade had a religious origin that this was not appropriate. Since the organizers/sponsors of the parade were from a private, not public, organization, (I believe) courts upheld that the Gays could be barred from the parade. Very interesting. Hmm, I think gay guys could participate in the parade if they mingled in the crowd. It would be unthinkable in Poland. Polish gays know they have to behave in order to be accepted by the society which is mostly Catholic. Not only would some attackers be lynched by an angry mob of believers hahahaha rushing to the defence of priests, but also Poles` attitude would turn against gays definitely, from today`s neutral to outwardly hostile. But, the court`s decree allowing gay marriages had had to be introduced earlier, and it was also done by popular ballot, preceded by citizens` petition. It is senseless to vote for something first, then try to gather opposing faction together and vote against. It is a joke, not law. I agree that the rule was upheld. Some states will allow gay marriages, some not. Full pluralism. I agree with you on this. I have nothing against gays, I wouldn`t mind if my kids` teacher was gay (on condition he isn`t a pedophile), but gay marriages and resulting kid adoption is something too much. I am too traditional too accept it. I believe most Poles feel like that. There is no national approval for gay marriages in this country nowadays. If it changes in the future, I don`t know. But I certainly won`t advocate its introduction myself. See the posters warning about the parade. polandsite.proboards104.com/index.cgi?board=krakw&action=display&thread=98&page=1#1824 |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 28, 2008 20:36:36 GMT 1
hahahaha Hey, guys, have you seen this avertisement banner that our Forum provider is putting at the top of the page??? It is Real Jock - Gay Community center.
I suppose that our discussion attracted it.
Very amusing.
PS. If anyone checks it out, please tell us what it is about. hahahahahaha
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Post by locopolaco on Apr 29, 2008 2:54:30 GMT 1
This has spawned a whole movement of trying to define what marriage actually is, so the controversy rages on. Many state governments and some people in federal government want to define marriage as being between one man and one woman. Some states have actually gone ahead and legislated this. Who knows where this will all end. Some states will allow gay marriages, some not. Full pluralism. there was fervor about it here too but in the end the legislature decided to get out of people's pants and not define anything constitutionally which i find to be a good thing. marriage/union in gov. eyes is basically a contract. i see no reason why people shouldn't have a choice with whom they sign a piece of paper for whatever reason they may have. |
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Post by jkustelski on Apr 29, 2008 3:25:26 GMT 1
hahahaha Hey, guys, have you seen this avertisement banner that our Forum provider is putting at the top of the page??? It is Real Jock - Gay Community center. I suppose that our discussion attracted it. Very amusing. PS. If anyone checks it out, please tell us what it is about. hahahahahaha How about NO!  Jim |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 29, 2008 18:28:55 GMT 1
hahahaha Hey, guys, have you seen this avertisement banner that our Forum provider is putting at the top of the page??? I suppose that our discussion attracted it. Very amusing. PS. If anyone checks it out, please tell us what it is about. hahahahahaha How about NO! Jim What does no mean? No to checking it out, or no to sharing the information with us?   hahahahaha |
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Post by jkustelski on Apr 29, 2008 22:26:22 GMT 1
How about NO! Jim What does no mean? No to checking it out, or no to sharing the information with us? hahahahaha the first....  |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 29, 2008 23:21:31 GMT 1
Very interesting. Hmm, I think gay guys could participate in the parade if they mingled in the crowd. I don't think that they wanted to just mingle with the crowd. They wanted their own gay contingent marching in the parade, complete with their gay pride banners, etc. I think the issue was resolved by the gays starting their own St Patrick's Day parade separate from the original one. Well, here in the USA, the Catholic Church is frequently the recipient of hostility and ridicule, particularly by the media, and especially in Boston. The media doesn't like it when the Cardinal speaks out on what he feels is right or wrong... No, the decree was never introduced and put on the ballot. I don't remember exactly the details, but some gay couple found an official to 'marry' them, then when the state did not recognize the 'marriage', they took the case to the state supreme court, and the judges decided in favor of gay marriage. This is why denying the people the right to put it on the ballot was such a travesty! The people should have the right to decide, it is in the law, and we were denied that by our own legislature. Yes, unless the federal government decides to pass a law decreeing one way or the other. Then it would be the law of the land and states could not go their own way on the issue. |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 29, 2008 23:25:28 GMT 1
there was fervor about it here too but in the end the legislature decided to get out of people's pants and not define anything constitutionally which i find to be a good thing. loco, Do you think that your state will recognize gay marriage soon as a result? |
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Post by locopolaco on Apr 29, 2008 23:41:10 GMT 1
well, part of the problem with american justice system is the mob rule and the other is that the gov may be by majority but it is in place to protect the minorities; since Abe anyway. there was fervor about it here too but in the end the legislature decided to get out of people's pants and not define anything constitutionally which i find to be a good thing. loco, Do you think that your state will recognize gay marriage soon as a result? i highly doubt it as we are one of those red states.. have been for a long, long time. i am just glad to see that they didn't define marriage (man+woman) in the constitution as that shouldn't be in that document. personally, restricting anyone's rights seems un-american to me. |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 29, 2008 23:49:12 GMT 1
i highly doubt it as we are one of those red states.. have been for a long, long time. i am just glad to see that they didn't define marriage (man+woman) in the constitution as that shouldn't be in that document. personally, restricting anyone's rights seems un-american to me. I think that as this issue moves further along, eventually either the federal government or each individual state will end up having to define marriage one way or the other. That just seems the inevitable outcome somewhere down the line... |
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Post by locopolaco on Apr 29, 2008 23:58:52 GMT 1
you may be right but then we have 'don't ask, don't tell' as a notional 'policy' so i don't know when this will actually come to head. if it ever does. i really don't think this state will do anything else with this. of course we do have a few state reps that may try to push it every year but mandatory seat belts took 20y or something so it may be a while.
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Post by jeanne on Apr 30, 2008 11:17:47 GMT 1
i really don't think this state will do anything else with this. of course we do have a few state reps that may try to push it every year but mandatory seat belts took 20y or something so it may be a while. Yes, I agree that the wheels of justice turn very slowly on things like this! |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 30, 2008 18:27:05 GMT 1
well, part of the problem with american justice system is the mob rule and the other is that the gov may be by majority but it is in place to protect the minorities; since Abe anyway. By mob you mean mafia? or just masses? What is Abe? Abraham Lincoln? What is a red state? Communist?  |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 30, 2008 21:49:15 GMT 1
well, part of the problem with american justice system is the mob rule and the other is that the gov may be by majority but it is in place to protect the minorities; since Abe anyway. By mob you mean mafia? or just masses? What is Abe? Abraham Lincoln? What is a red state? Communist? Yes, loco, please explain to Bonobo about red and blue states. I hate discussing politics...but it must sound really weird to someone unfamiliar with our terms. |
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Post by locopolaco on Apr 30, 2008 23:29:33 GMT 1
red = republican
blue = democrat in these cases here. lol
and yes. Lincoln and masses
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Post by Bonobo on May 23, 2008 17:12:01 GMT 1
wiadomosci.onet.pl/2700,1754613,student_wyrzucony_z_akademika_za_obcasy,wydarzenie_lokalne.html In one dormitory in Wrocław a student was told to check out because he was wearing high heeled shoes. When he refused, the police was called who made him leave. The argument of the dorm director: There are young people learning here and the sight could disturb them.
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Post by tufta on May 23, 2008 17:56:07 GMT 1
The dorm director must have listened too closely to his higness (!!) Our President's expose.
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Post by Bonobo on May 23, 2008 18:03:46 GMT 1
The dorm director must have listened too closely to his higness (!!) Our President's expose. Yes! hahahaha As men wearing high heels are called drag queens, she probably thought it was her duty to get rid of a possible threat to His Majesty Duck. |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
Posts: 1,470
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Post by gigi on May 23, 2008 18:20:44 GMT 1
...men wearing high heels are called drag queens... But not all "drag queens" are gay. For some men, cross-dressing is simply a fetish. Although why any man would willingly wear a pair of high heels is beyond me. |
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Post by valpomike on May 24, 2008 0:19:06 GMT 1
If drag Queens are not gay, what are? If nothing more than strange, they need to keep to them selfs. The action taken was good. They could have had other things done to them.
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Post by valpomike on May 24, 2008 22:58:46 GMT 1
I understand that Poland has another idea as far as Gays, than we here in the U.S.A., am I correct?
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Post by locopolaco on May 25, 2008 1:33:54 GMT 1
wiadomosci.onet.pl/2700,1754613,student_wyrzucony_z_akademika_za_obcasy,wydarzenie_lokalne.html In one dormitory in Wrocław a student was told to check out because he was wearing high heeled shoes. When he refused, the police was called who made him leave. The argument of the dorm director: There are young people learning here and the sight could disturb them. that's messed up. i thought schools were about learning and experiencing and expansion of mind in general. surely doesn't seem right. the drom dir. should be tossed. |
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Post by locopolaco on May 25, 2008 1:35:21 GMT 1
I understand that Poland has another idea as far as Gays, than we here in the U.S.A., am I correct? what do you mean and what is the idea in the USA? in Poland, gays seem to be tolerated and that's about it. kiind of lke here, no? |
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Post by Bonobo on May 25, 2008 15:35:31 GMT 1
But not all "drag queens" are gay. For some men, cross-dressing is simply a fetish. Yes, that was probably the case with that student. He isn`t gay but certainly likes shocking people and wants to widen the range of tolerance in Poland. In an interview he claimed he wants to feel like a liberated man not constrained by stereotypes. He admitted he sometimes wears a skirt too. The student took part in the happening event in Wrocław. Cross culture fans were wearing cross-culture clothes. miasta.gazeta.pl/wroclaw/1,35771,5241130.html that's messed up. i thought schools were about learning and experiencing and expansion of mind in general. surely doesn't seem right. the drom dir. should be tossed. You can see the student on the left while on the right is Marcin Boronowski, an academic teacher who comes to work at the university dressed in woman`s outfit and they accept him there.  Marcin in normal attire  and crossdressed  A Polish article about him www.e-lama.pl/artykuly/5419/polscy-faceci-w-szpilkach/?id=5419&page=1You don`t know??? Because it is so exciting! I sometimes fancy wearing them myself, the problem is my wife doesn`t have even one pair. I am fascinated with everything feminine!!! hahahahahahaahahha |
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Post by Bonobo on May 25, 2008 15:39:57 GMT 1
I understand that Poland has another idea as far as Gays, than we here in the U.S.A., am I correct? Yes, Mike, it is considered improper when two or more men kiss each other in public. |
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lol
