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Post by Bonobo on Apr 9, 2016 20:37:30 GMT 1
This is the first post on the topic of abortion in Poland in this forum ever. All has been quiet on the abortion front for decades but it seems it is going to change now. Protests in Poland against potential abortion ban
09.04.2016 20:32
Protesters demonstrated on Saturday outside the parliament in Warsaw and in several other Polish cities against possible legislation that could ban abortion outright.
The protest at the parliament buildings was held under the motto “Regaining Choice.” Organisers said some 8,000 people took part.
Protesters wielded banners with slogans such as “Right to abortion, human right.”
“The only aim of an abortion ban is to terrorise and torture women,” said Natalia Broniarczyk, one of the demonstrators.
Almost 3,000 people staged a similar protest in the western city of Poznań, according to police.
Poland’s current abortion laws, which have been in place since 1993, only allow the procedure if a woman's life or health is jeopardised by the continuation of a pregnancy, if the pregnancy is a result of a criminal act such as rape or incest, or if the foetus is seriously malformed.
However, the PRO Foundation (Fundacja Pro) group is gathering signatures for a total ban as part of a so-called citizen's bill. If 100,000 signatures are gathered, the draft legislation can be submitted to parliament.
Last week, the Catholic Church appealed to MPs to pass legislation that would bring about a total ban, and Prime Minister Beata Szydło stated that she favoured the ban.
Nevertheless, it appears that opinions in Poland's ruling conservative Law and Justice party are divided.- See more at: www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/248070,Protests-in-Poland-against-potential-abortion-ban#sthash.o84r3yHI.dpuf           |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 9, 2016 21:23:52 GMT 1
Protesters wielded banners with slogans such as “Right to abortion, human right.” Sadly, this thought does not take into consideration the human right of the unborn child to life. Many other people believe that the right to life is the primary right and should be protected. No, the aim of an abortion ban is to protect the lives of vulnerable unborn children who cannot defend themselves. |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 9, 2016 21:36:54 GMT 1
Polish MP: 'What difference is there if a child is conceived through rape?'
05.04.2016 10:22
As a row about a possible total ban on abortion in Poland continues, an MP from the ruling Law and Justice party has attempted to brush off arguments that abortion should be allowed after rape.
“What difference is there if a child is conceived through rape or not?” argued MP Arkadiusz Czartoryski [no relation to the princely family].
The MP theorised that “many children were born as a result of the mass rape of Polish women by Germans following the Warsaw Uprising,” referring to the doomed 1944 insurrection against the Nazi occupiers.
According to Czartoryski, these children went on to be “good Poles,” who strode forth and “built Poland.”
Prime Minister Beata Szydło said on Thursday that she favours a complete ban, after the Church appealed to parliamentarians to vote through legislation.
However, following pro-choice demonstrations in cities across Poland on Sunday, Deputy Prime Minister Jarosław Gowin admitted that a total ban on abortion could backfire and lead to “a rebellion.”
Poland currently has among the strictest abortion laws in Europe. The procedure is only permissible if a woman's life or health is jeopardised by the continuation of a pregnancy, if the pregnancy is a result of a criminal act such as rape or incest, or if the foetus is seriously malformed. The abortion must be carried out within the first 25 weeks of the pregnancy.
NGO the PRO Foundation (Fundacja Pro) is gathering signatures for a total ban as part of a so-called citizen's bill, under the slogan 'Stop Abortion'.
If 100,000 signatures are gathered, the draft legislation can be submitted to parliament.
Technically, the draft legislation can be dismissed at the first reading.
Gowin said on Sunday night that any changes to current laws should only take place after “a very mature and calm discussion.”- See more at: www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/247379,Polish-MP-What-difference-is-there-if-a-child-is-conceived-through-rape#sthash.CY3hlsmo.dpuf |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 9, 2016 21:45:36 GMT 1
Gowin said on Sunday night that any changes to current laws should only take place after “a very mature and calm discussion.”Good luck to them on having a "calm discussion;" I've learned from experience here in the U.S. that it is very hard for both sides to maintain a calm discussion of this very controversial subject! |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 9, 2016 21:50:25 GMT 1
Gowin said on Sunday night that any changes to current laws should only take place after “a very mature and calm discussion.”Good luck to them on having a "calm discussion;" I've learned from experience here in the U.S. that it is very hard for both sides to maintain a calm discussion of this very controversial subject! I remember there were attacks on abortion doctors and clinics in US. Generally I am against abortion but in drastic cases I wouldn`t force women to bear a child they don`t want. I have no right to it because I am not a woman. |
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Post by Bonobo on Sept 18, 2016 20:41:34 GMT 1
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Post by jeanne on Sept 18, 2016 23:58:17 GMT 1
Generally I am against abortion but in drastic cases I wouldn`t force women to bear a child they don`t want. I have no right to it because I am not a woman. Who speaks for the rights of the child being aborted? |
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Post by Bonobo on Sept 19, 2016 20:21:09 GMT 1
Generally I am against abortion but in drastic cases I wouldn`t force women to bear a child they don`t want. I have no right to it because I am not a woman. Who speaks for the rights of the child being aborted? You mean which institutions etc? |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 2, 2016 22:43:18 GMT 1
It is getting hot. Another demonstration last Saturday, a female strike next Monday. UPDATE: Protest against bid to ban abortion in Poland 01.10.2016 13:34 Opponents of a bid to ban abortion in Poland staged a protest by the parliament buildings in Warsaw on Saturday. Police said around 5,000 people took part in the protest, many of them dressed in black. Women chanted: "My body, my affair!" Some brandished placards resembling an obituary notice which read: “We are saddened to inform you of the death of women’s rights.” The demonstration, backed by the Save Women group, was attended by members of the Razem party, the opposition Nowoczesna and Civic Platform parties, Greens, the Committee for the Defence of Democracy, feminist and women’s groups. The protest came after a controversial citizens’ initiative to tighten staunchly Catholic Poland’s already restrictive abortion laws cleared a key parliamentary hurdle last week. The bill was sent by MPs to the committee stage. That initiative, by the Stop Abortion group, is backed by some 450,000 signatures. It calls for a total ban on abortion - even in cases of rape and incest - and would make women who terminate pregnancies liable to jail time. At the same time, members of parliament rejected a rival bid to liberalise abortion laws. The pro-choice initiative by the Save Women coalition had been backed by over 215,000 signatures. It called for women to be allowed to terminate pregnancy on demand, up to the 12th week of pregnancy. Poland’s current law on abortion, passed in 1993, bans terminations unless there was rape or incest, the pregnancy poses a health risk to the mother or the foetus is severely deformed. Earlier this week, fraction leaders decided the European Parliament would hold a debate on Wednesday on the situation of women in Poland. Polish Prime Minister Beata Szydło slammed that decision, saying it showed that the European Parliament is losing its credibility, that the EU treaty needs to be changed and the bloc needs to be reformed. Women opposed to tightening the country’s abortion laws are planning to stage strikes in a number of Polish cities on Monday. (pk)                     |
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Post by jeanne on Oct 2, 2016 22:55:01 GMT 1
Who speaks for the rights of the child being aborted? You mean which institutions etc? No, I mean if you don't have a right to speak against abortion just because you are a man, and the unborn children cannot defend their right to live, then who will speak for the unborn's rights?? Let's also not forget that 50% of the aborted children are male and they all have fathers, so this is not an issue involving women only. Everyone has a right to speak against abortion because it goes against the most basic right, which is the right to life. |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 3, 2016 20:45:12 GMT 1
You mean which institutions etc? No, I mean if you don't have a right to speak against abortion just because you are a man, and the unborn children cannot defend their right to live, then who will speak for the unborn's rights?? Let's also not forget that 50% of the aborted children are male and they all have fathers, so this is not an issue involving women only. Everyone has a right to speak against abortion because it goes against the most basic right, which is the right to life. Yes, you are right, but you probably don`t comprehend the whole cultural background behind my views. I just wouldn`t dare to force women to do things against their will because I am too respectful to them as I was born and raised in a country where certain female, namely God`s Mother, is worshipped like nowhere else.          Apart from the cult of Mary, there is another myth concerning women in Poland - symbolic Polish Mother. While Polish males went to and died in numerous wars and risings or were deported to distant outback, it was Polish women who cared for familes and kept up the Polishness in the nation. The cult of Polish Mother isn`t as strong as the cult of Mary but it is strong enough to influence your outlook if you live here as a male. No wonder that in result of decades of Polish upbringing and saturation with Polishness, I revere all women and I cannot help it. You should understand it. I would never encourage any female to have an abortion, quite the opposite, the unborn children have the right to live because they are not guilty of rape, incest or various defects, but the final decision belongs to a woman who has been raped by a mental lowlife or relative or she learns her child will never be able to live on its own. Bearing such a child is wonderful heroism, I fully support it, I would do my best to help such a woman and stand by her side but not all women are strong enough to carry such a burden. I understand them, I have no right to tell them what they should/have to do. I am sure Jesus would forgive them too if he lived in our times.Please don`t hold what I just said against me , do not bear a grudge, because it isn`t my fault, I cannot adopt another attitude since I am too Polish for that. I have stuck to my views for over 30 years now, I am too old to change. Let this issue not divide us or even make enemies of each other, like it happens here or in the US. Black Monday witnessed more demonstrations and strikes in cities and towns all over Poland. Also antiabortion activists demonstrated.           wyborcza.pl/56,140981,20781260,czarny-poniedzialek-na-ulicach-polskich-miast,,12.html                 
Protesters who demonstrated in front of PiS headquarters in Poznań were tear gassed and detained by police with dogs. Some taken to hospital. It is a very symbolic event because in 1956 protesting workers went to communist Party headquarters and were also attacked.  Anti abortion protests also took place.    www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37540139Black Monday: Polish women strike against abortion ban Thousands of women in Poland have gone on strike in protest against proposals for a total ban on abortions. They marched through the streets wearing black as a sign of mourning for their reproductive rights. Women who oppose the ban are staying away from work and school and refusing to do domestic chores, in a protest inspired by a women's strike in Iceland in 1975. Anti-abortion protests are being held around the country too. IVF curb Women took to the streets of the capital city, Warsaw, in a pro-choice march on what they are calling "Black Monday". It is unclear how many women are taking part in the action and how widespread it will be beyond big cities. Will Poland impose a total ban on abortion? If the law - which has cleared one parliamentary hurdle so far - goes through it will make Poland's abortion laws as restrictive as those in two other countries in Europe: Malta and the Vatican. Women found to have had abortions would be punished with a five-year prison term. Doctors found to have assisted in an abortion would also be liable for jail time. Abortion is already mostly banned in Poland. The current exceptions are: where the woman's life is in danger where there is a risk of serious and irreversible damage to the foetus where the pregnancy is as a result of rape or incest - this must be confirmed by a prosecutor Critics say the tightening of the law could mean women who have a miscarriage are also investigated, on suspicion of having had the pregnancy terminated deliberately. At early stages of pregnancy, miscarriages and abortions have indistinguishable symptoms. One protester said: "We are saying 'enough is enough' over what is happening, to what the government, the Church and the so-called pro-life organisations are planning for women. "They want to introduce an anti-abortion law which will mean in many cases, women will be sentenced to death. It will take away the sense of security they have, the treatment options available when pregnancy puts their lives or health in danger." One gynaecologist warned that the law as it is worded now could effectively lead to doctors being unwilling to do invasive prenatal tests and lifesaving operations. Image copyright EPA Prof Romuald Debski, who works at a hospital in Warsaw, told Polish media: "Whoever causes the death of the unborn child is punishable by imprisonment up to three years. If I have a patient with pre-eclampsia, who is 32 weeks pregnant, I will have to let her and her child die. "I have to, because if I perform a caesarean section and the child dies, I may go to prison for three years, because the child was premature." Pre-eclampsia is a potentially fatal condition that can develop in the second half of pregnancy and can only be cured by delivering the baby. A separate bill seeks to curb in-vitro fertilisation (IVF), allowing only one embryo to be fertilised at any one time, and banning the practice of freezing embryos. The city hall in Czestochowa in southern Poland allowed female staff to take the day off on Monday, while several businesses have closed for the protests. But the Catholic Church is among those who support the total ban. The Polish Bishops' Conference asked Catholics to pray for "the conscience and the light of the Holy Spirit on all Poles who protect human life from conception to natural death". The country's foreign minister was another high-profile critic of the protests. Witold Waszczykowski told Associated Press: "We expect serious debate on questions of life, death and birth. We do not expect happenings, dressing in costumes and creating artificial problems." While pro-choice activists marched in black and tweeted pictures of themselves wearing black, anti-abortion activists chose white for the colour of their counter-protests. Image copyright @madameclaudine1  Image caption 'If we agree that a mother can even kill her own child, how can we tell other people that they shouldn't kill each other?' wrote one woman People in Berlin, Brussels, Dusseldorf and Belfast held rallies supporting the Polish pro-choice movement, while protests were planned in Dublin and London for later in the day. Image caption One Polish pro-choice activist tweeted "gosh, how lovely this is" and included images of support messages from around the world  The only European countries with stricter laws than Poland has at present are: Ireland Andorra Liechtenstein San Marino Northern Ireland (a part of the UK whose abortion law differs from England, Scotland and Wales) Even by conservative estimates there are far more illegal abortions than legal ones in Poland - between 10,000 and 150,000, compared to about 1,000 or 2,000 legal terminations. Demonstrations took place in other European cities. Berlin:  |
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Post by jeanne on Oct 4, 2016 16:03:53 GMT 1
No, I mean if you don't have a right to speak against abortion just because you are a man, and the unborn children cannot defend their right to live, then who will speak for the unborn's rights?? Let's also not forget that 50% of the aborted children are male and they all have fathers, so this is not an issue involving women only. Everyone has a right to speak against abortion because it goes against the most basic right, which is the right to life. Yes, you are right, but you probably don`t comprehend the whole cultural background behind my views. I do to a certain degree understand the cultural background behind your views, and the photos you included do help expand my understanding. Hold on here a minute, Bonobo, I did not say anything about FORCING women to do anything. What I said involved only SPEAKING on behalf of the rights of the unborn. The way society's view on abortion has taken root, I do not think forcing women could help in any way, but would rather be counter-productive. What has to happen is a conversion of hearts. Young women today, because they have grown up with the free practice of abortion, probably do not think too much of it beyond its being a "medical procedure" to solve their problem pregnancy. If people are not speaking out about the rights of the unborn, if people are silent, then those supporting abortion think everyone agrees with the practice. By speaking out about the rights of the unborn, we hopefully can make those others aware of what is really at stake...a fetus is an unborn child...a child who has a right to live.This is what I was encouraging you to do (and actually you did now do it well, stating your beliefs). If someone like you who is respected as a teacher, husband, father, farmer  , resident of Krakow and citizen of Poland speaks for the rights of the unborn, others may be influenced by seeing/hearing someone they respect express their perspective on abortion. And this applies, of course, to all those who believe abortion is immoral, not just you! The best witness against abortion is people who daily live out moral, credible lives! And just an editorial comment: Please Bonobo, you have been a Catholic long enough and understand English well enough to know Catholics DO NOT worship Mary, they HONOR her!! Respect for women is one of the things I love about Polish culture...I do understand! As a way of respecting women, perhaps governments should choose to support women with crisis pregnancies, thereby eliminating a lot of the reasons women choose to abort rather than give birth. I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for Jesus, but being familiar with his teachings, I'm pretty sure of two things: 1.) He wouldn't want unborn children to be killed. 2.) He would expect us, his followers, to support women with crisis pregnancies financially, materially, emotionally, and spiritually (these are all corporal and spiritual works of mercy!) so that they may reconsider their decisions to end their pregnancies. Maybe countries could consider doing this instead of making so many bombs... Of course Jesus will and does forgive them in our times...but part of being forgiven is recognizing/admitting that one has done something in need of forgiveness...which is why we need to keep speaking for the rights of the unborn so people realize what is really at stake in abortion: a human life. Me? Bear a grudge? Sorry, I've never done that, so don't know how to do it...  Grudges serve no purpose except to make the one bearing it bitter and I prefer not to be! I defend your human right to hold whatever views are consonant with your conscience!! And these anti-abortion protesters are also exercising their rights to speak for the unborn! |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 4, 2016 20:46:20 GMT 1
By speaking out about the rights of the unborn, we hopefully can make those others aware of what is really at stake...a fetus is an unborn child...a child who has a right to live.This is what I was encouraging you to do (and actually you did now do it well, stating your beliefs). If someone like you who is respected as a teacher, husband, father, farmer , resident of Krakow and citizen of Poland speaks for the rights of the unborn, others may be influenced by seeing/hearing someone they respect express their perspective on abortion.Aaa, if that`s the case, then I do my duty during high school upbringing form tutor classes when we talk about abortion. Then I openly admit I don`t support abortion because I protect life but if a woman decided so, I would accept her choice.
Please Bonobo, you have been a Catholic long enough and understand English well enough to know Catholics DO NOT worship Mary, they HONOR her!!
I thought such acts as kneeling down, saying prayers, lighting candles, carrying pictures and figures along streets, begging for good health and luck in life, feeling grateful for bestowed good health and luck etc are a bit higher than honouring and fully fulfill the requirements of worship.   These guys sing the Polish version of Ave Maria
Full Definition of worship
1 chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>
To honour sb
to show great respect for someone or something, especially in public:
He was honoured for his bravery.
But I could be wrong.... especially if you mean some intricate semantic differences between worship, honor, reverence, adoration, homage, etc etc then yes, I admit, I am poor at them because theology is too boring to me to peruse it in depth. Hey, I have got an idea! How about making a difference between Polish Catholics who worship Mary, and Am or the world catholics who honour Her? I am sure that if you told an average representative of the Polish RCC that catholics should only honour Mary instead of worshipping, he would eye you with disbelief.
As a way of respecting women, perhaps governments should choose to support women with crisis pregnancies, thereby eliminating a lot of the reasons women choose to abort rather than give birth.Yes, governments. The problem is that Poland isn`t rich enough yet to offer complex protection to women who bear special care children. In result, women feel the state forces them to have a child but then they are left alone with scanty benefits, insufficient medical care and have to fight for each little thing like wheelchair adopted stairs or lift in their three storey apartment block.
I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for Jesus, but being familiar with his teachings, I'm pretty sure of two things:
1.) He wouldn't want unborn children to be killed.
2.) He would expect us, his followers, to support women with crisis pregnancies
That might well be, that might well be.
Me? Bear a grudge? Sorry, I've never done that, so don't know how to do it... Grudges serve no purpose except to make the one bearing it bitter and I prefer not to be! I defend your human right to hold whatever views are consonant with your conscience!!
That`s a wonderful attitude.
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Post by jeanne on Oct 5, 2016 18:37:37 GMT 1
I see from news here in the U.S. that the government has backed off from their plans due to the protests!
Is that the real scoop?
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 5, 2016 20:27:17 GMT 1
I see from news here in the U.S. that the government has backed off from their plans due to the protests! Is that the real scoop? Yes, isn`t it pathetic? Those hypocrites first supported the proposition, then backed off after realising the scale of the protest. Even the most verbose defenders of the unborn children, the ones who violently slashed at protesting women, voted no to the bill, because their Chairman told them to do so after seeing the drop in opinion polls.  Today the voting took place in the Parliament commission under PiS control, tomorrow in the main hall, we`ll see how they vote - two options: reject it totally or send again to the commission. PiS is in a very uncomfortable situation, they are sitting on a barricade which is pressing into their groin, attacked from all sides. They would like to please pro-life groups and show gratitude to the Church for its support during elections last year, but they don`t want to lose centre supporters who oppose total ban. www.ft.com/content/a3cf9548-8b0e-11e6-8aa5-f79f5696c731 |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 5, 2016 22:32:54 GMT 1
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uncltim
Just born
I oppose most nonsense.
Posts: 73
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Post by uncltim on Oct 8, 2016 22:10:48 GMT 1
Looks like the the more traditional political entities in Poland have gotten themselves caught in the snare set for them. Too bad, this will be used against them forever. The real issue with reproductive rights is that the conversation was ended after half the people got what they wanted.
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 8, 2016 22:35:15 GMT 1
Too bad, this will be used against them forever. Radicals have already started slashing at them. But why too bad? |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 9, 2016 13:54:44 GMT 1
Polish MPs throw out bid to totally ban abortion
06.10.2016 12:11
Polish deputies on Thursday threw out a controversial bid to ban abortion that has triggered street protests and criticism in the European Parliament.
In total, 352 deputies voted to reject a bill which would have made women who terminate pregnancies liable to jail sentences. Meanwhile, 58 voted against throwing out the proposal and 18 abstained.
The bid to tighten staunchly Catholic Poland’s already restrictive abortion laws last week cleared a key hurdle in the Polish parliament, which is dominated by the ruling conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party.
But a parliamentary committee on Wednesday rejected the bill.
PiS leader Jarosław Kaczyński said ahead of the vote on Thursday: "Law and Justice will continue to be for the protection of life and will take appropriate measures in this direction, but these will be well-thought-out measures...”
Addressing the Stop Abortion group, he said its initiative calling for a total ban on terminations would be counterproductive, adding: "With all due respect, I am deeply convinced that what you are proposing is not the right action...”
On Monday, women dressed in sombre colours took to the streets of Polish cities in a so-called Black Protest against the bill to tighten abortion laws.
The initiative by the Stop Abortion group called for a total ban on abortion - even in cases of rape and incest.
Politicians from Poland’s conservative Law and Justice (PiS), which swept to power in elections last year, have stressed that the proposal to ban abortion was not an initiative by the party but by a group of citizens.
Poland already has one of the strictest laws on abortion in Europe, adopted in 1993 and allowing terminations only in the case of rape or incest, when the pregnancy endangers the mother, or the foetus is severely deformed.
After a meeting of the Conference of the Polish Episcopate, Polish Catholic bishops said on Wednesday they do not support measures that would see women facing punishment for having abortions.
 (pk)
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 15, 2016 21:33:38 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 15, 2016 23:26:52 GMT 1
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Post by Bonobo on Feb 10, 2017 17:36:50 GMT 1
10 female teachers dressed black to support the abortion protest and put the photo on Facebook. They were reported to a local Education Board by their male colleague. The board started investigation and demanded disciplinary commission to punish the teachers, for "public expression of their views in the workplace such as school." The problem is that it is not prohibited, more, right to your own views is guaranteed by the constitution. Besides, as critics suggested, expressing one`s views takes place in Polish schools everyday, e.g., during RCC religion classes. No wonder the commission acquited the first teacher today. Controvercial photo:  Commission meeting  Demonstration outside  |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 9, 2017 17:08:55 GMT 1
A march organised by pro-life activists was held in the Polish capital on Sunday, alongside a drive to collect nappies, baby formula and baby care goods for women's shelters. Participants in the march. Banner reads "Thank you God". Photo: PAP/Bartłomiej Zborowski.Participants in the march. Banner reads "Thank you God". Photo: PAP/Bartłomiej Zborowski.  "Our main aim is to highlight the role of life, marriage, and family," Robert Wielądek, a Catholic priest, said. The "Sanctity of Life" march followed morning Mass. The first "Sanctity of Life" march was held on 25 March 2006, marking Sanctity of Life Day, as observed by the Catholic Church in Poland. It coincides with the Feast of the Annunciation |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 9, 2017 22:56:44 GMT 1
A march organised by pro-life activists was held in the Polish capital on Sunday, alongside a drive to collect nappies, baby formula and baby care goods for women's shelters. Participants in the march. Banner reads "Thank you God". "Our main aim is to highlight the role of life, marriage, and family," Robert Wielądek, a Catholic priest, said. The "Sanctity of Life" march followed morning Mass. The first "Sanctity of Life" march was held on 25 March 2006, marking Sanctity of Life Day, as observed by the Catholic Church in Poland. It coincides with the Feast of the Annunciation Thanks for posting... |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 10, 2017 19:52:12 GMT 1
Thanks for posting... The keep the balance, I should have added that a March of Atheists was held in Warsaw a day before. |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 10, 2017 20:41:16 GMT 1
Thanks for posting... The keep the balance, I should have added that a March of Atheists was held in Warsaw a day before. But what were the atheists protesting? It would only be balanced if they were protesting the pro-life position, not some other issue! |
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Post by Bonobo on Apr 10, 2017 20:50:20 GMT 1
The keep the balance, I should have added that a March of Atheists was held in Warsaw a day before. But what were the atheists protesting? It would only be balanced if they were protesting the pro-life position, not some other issue! If we desired to be extremely exact, you are right - there is no connection between those two. However, I meant sth more general - to retain some elements of objectivism, I should present the full spectrum of the Polish society. |
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Post by jeanne on Apr 10, 2017 20:58:59 GMT 1
But what were the atheists protesting? It would only be balanced if they were protesting the pro-life position, not some other issue! If we desired to be extremely exact, you are right - there is no connection between those two. However, I meant sth more general - to retain some elements of objectivism, I should present the full spectrum of the Polish society. Yes, exactly, which is what you did here, and which is why I thanked you! I felt you were simply updating the on-going abortion versus pro-life protests! And it does seem that the abortion supporters get more press (I mean in the media, not here)...just my opinion! |
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Post by Bonobo on Jan 26, 2018 22:26:04 GMT 1
Abortion issue again causes deep tensions in the Parliament. Even anti-right wing opposition is divided.
Polish opposition parties in turmoil after abortion vote
11.01.2018 17:30
Cracks have appeared in two of Poland’s opposition groups, threatening their unity, after MPs broke party lines in an abortion vote.
Joanna Scheuring-Wielgus, Krzysztof Mieszkowski and Joanna Schmidt, MPs with Poland's liberal opposition Nowoczesna (Modern) party, announce they are suspending their membership of the party's parliamentary caucus at a press conference in Warsaw on Thursday. Photo: PAP/Marcin ObaraJoanna Scheuring-Wielgus, Krzysztof Mieszkowski and Joanna Schmidt, MPs with Poland's liberal opposition Nowoczesna (Modern) party, announce they are suspending their membership of the party's parliamentary caucus at a press conference in Warsaw on Thursday. Photo: PAP/Marcin Obara
Poland’s largest opposition party, the Civic Platform (PO), on Thursday expelled three deputies who broke caucus discipline in the vote in the country’s parliament a day earlier.
MPs Joanna Fabisiak, Marek Biernacki and Jacek Tomczak unexpectedly voted against a citizens’ bill seeking to liberalise Poland’s strict abortion law on Wednesday. They helped reject the bill, which had been drafted by the so-called "Save the Women" initiative, at its first reading.
Party spokesman Jan Grabiec said on Thursday that the decision to exclude the MPs had been made by the party's executive board, which also called for measures to punish PO deputies who did not take part in Wednesday’s vote.
The lower house of Poland’s parliament on Wednesday voted to reject the "Save the Women" bill, while sending another bill that seeks to prohibit abortions in cases of serious damage to the foetus for further work by a parliamentary committee.
Polish pro-life activists are pushing for a ban on what is known as eugenic abortion, or a woman having her pregnancy terminated when the baby has been prenatally diagnosed with a genetic condition such as Down syndrome.
A total of 29 PO deputies did not take part in the vote on the “Save the Women” bill, while another three voted to reject the bill, which, among other provisions, sought to give women a right to abortion until the end of the 12th week of a pregnancy.
MPs suspend caucus membership
Meanwhile, three prominent MPs for another Polish opposition group, the liberal Nowoczesna (Modern), have suspended their membership of the party’s parliamentary caucus after some of their colleagues failed to take part in the vote on the "Save the Women" bill.
Joanna Scheuring-Wielgus, Joanna Schmidt and Krzysztof Mieszkowski said they were suspending their membership of the caucus “for a month,” a period to be spent on talks to sort out divisive issues within the party.
An irate Mieszkowski said: "It turns out that my colleagues do not want to defend women's rights, they do not want women to have freedom, do not want to live in a democratic country.”
In a move that surprised some observers, 58 deputies from the ruling conservative (PiS) party, which is otherwise against initiatives to relax abortion law in Poland, voted in favour of the "Save the Women” bill being sent for further work in committee.
Unending abortion debate
In October 2016, Poland’s parliament threw out a controversial citizens' bill proposing a total ban on abortion and jail time for women who had terminations.
Deputies voted against the bill after women in cities throughout Poland took to the streets in a so-called Black Protest.
Demonstrators returned to the streets exactly a year later.
Poland's President Andrzej Duda has declared he would support a bill introducing tighter restrictions on abortions of foetuses with disabilities if one was passed in parliament.
Poland’s abortion laws have been in place since 1993 and are among the strictest in the European Union.
They allow for pregnancies to be terminated in only three cases: when the life or health of the mother is in danger; when the pregnancy is the result of incest or rape; and when the foetus is severely and untreatably damaged. |
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Post by Bonobo on Mar 24, 2018 0:02:08 GMT 1
PiS ruling party has a serious problem. After previous mass protests, they tried to delay the new law on abortion as long as possible but last week it was the bishops who protested against lingering and PiS had to get back to the legislation process. The result is today`s new mass demonstrations with thousands of participants in cities and towns all over Poland. PiS is afraid that after passing the new law, they might lose support from centre or leftist voters. On the other hand, if they don`t do it, the Church and conservative voters will get annoyed, too. A nice cleft stick situation. Black Friday         wyborcza.pl/56,140981,23182160,czarny-piatek-w-warszawie,,6.html
‘Black Friday’ protestors oppose bid to tighten Poland’s abortion law
23.03.2018 16:51
Crowds of women on Friday demonstrated against plans to tighten Poland’s already-strict abortion laws.
'Black Friday' protest outside parliament in Warsaw. Photo: PAP/Radek Pietruszka'Black Friday' protest outside parliament in Warsaw. Photo: PAP/Radek Pietruszka
In what was dubbed the “Black Friday” protest, women gathered in central Warsaw chanting "Freedom, equality, abortion on demand."
The demonstrators, many dressed in black, marched to the Polish parliament carrying banners with slogans such as “Independent Polish women.”
At the same time, prayer meetings were held in towns across staunchly Catholic Poland in a "White Friday" pro-life campaign.
Under Poland's existing laws, abortions are allowed only if the pregnancy is the result of a crime such as incest or rape, threatens the life or health of the woman, or if the foetus is severely deformed or ill.
Citizens’ bill
Anti-abortion activists have claimed that the last case allows for termination of children with Down Syndrome as well as other children who could otherwise live happy lives.
In January, the lower house of Poland's parliament sent a citizens’ bill to outlaw termination of disfigured and disabled foetuses to a parliamentary committee for review. The committee on Monday backed the bill, called “Stop Abortion.”
Last October, thousands of women wearing black took to the streets in cities across Poland demanding more liberal abortion laws and marking the original “Black Protest” of October 3, 2016, which made international headlines.
Poland’s abortion laws have been in place since 1993 and are among the strictest in the European Union.
Turnout figures for the “Black Friday” protest and the "White Friday" campaign were not immediately available. |
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, resident of Krakow and citizen of Poland speaks for the rights of the unborn, others may be influenced by seeing/hearing someone they respect express their perspective on abortion. And this applies, of course, to all those who believe abortion is immoral, not just you! The best witness against abortion is people who daily live out moral, credible lives!
Grudges serve no purpose except to make the one bearing it bitter and I prefer not to be! I defend your human right to hold whatever views are consonant with your conscience!! 
