Obama sucks??

[gigi]

Sept 4, 2008 17:38:12 GMT 1 valpomike said:

...we got hear our soon to be new V.P. Sarah. She is great, and with her, we will win.

Her speech was powerful. She got some verbal jabs in - not unexpected, though I think she went a bit overboard. She seems feisty, which is automatically going to earn her the b*tch title. Then again, pretty much all women in politics are given that title. The whole "men are aggressive, women are b*tchy" mentality. In any case, she energized the Republican party and basically told the Obama/Biden camp "Game On!"

[valpomike]

She said, what she had to, and want was needed, and she is HOT.

[locopolaco]

Sept 4, 2008 18:00:15 GMT 1 gigi said:

Sept 4, 2008 17:38:12 GMT 1 valpomike said:

...we got hear our soon to be new V.P. Sarah. She is great, and with her, we will win.

Her speech was powerful. She got some verbal jabs in - not unexpected, though I think she went a bit overboard. She seems feisty, which is automatically going to earn her the b*tch title. Then again, pretty much all women in politics are given that title. The whole "men are aggressive, women are b*tchy" mentality. In any case, she energized the Republican party and basically told the Obama/Biden camp "Game On!"

unfortunately he didn't though.

[valpomike]

We will all see, who the mass wants, and just hope they make the best choice, and that is not Obama.
I just hope I don't have to tell you, I told you so, if he gets in, and screws up big time, and he would.

[locopolaco]

after watching the RNC, mac has not a freaking chance or america is about to lose the credibility it has left.

[Bonobo]

Sept 5, 2008 16:40:08 GMT 1 valpomike said:

I am sorry, but find it hard to think that a man from Poland could be so unhappy with everything.

He isn`t unhappy. He just wants to be happier than now and thinks that the change of the US government will help him in this. You think otherwise, the possibility of the change of the helmsman at US steering wheel gives you creeps. But that`s democracy - people adopt certain opinions and rightfully stick to them and we can`t go to war over it because democracy means exchanging opinions and adopting certain compromise. Without compromise we would go back to totalitarian state. Do you want a fascist or communist system in a country again? Of course not...

Loco, I am sorry if I upset you so much.

That`s a very Christian move. God is looking at you and smiling approvingly.
Thank you for that.

[grammyk]

Sept 4, 2008 18:00:15 GMT 1 gigi said:

Sept 4, 2008 17:38:12 GMT 1 valpomike said:

...we got hear our soon to be new V.P. Sarah. She is great, and with her, we will win.

Her speech was powerful. She got some verbal jabs in - not unexpected, though I think she went a bit overboard. She seems feisty, which is automatically going to earn her the b*tch title. Then again, pretty much all women in politics are given that title. The whole "men are aggressive, women are b*tchy" mentality. In any case, she energized the Republican party and basically told the Obama/Biden camp "Game On!"

Have you ever seen the movie "Delores Clayborne"? (One of my favorites)

The most famous quote from that movie was "Sometimes, being a b*tch is all a woman has to hold on to."

If B*ITCH is the title for a smart, strong woman then lets put a B*TCH in the white house! It's what we need. Throw all the old corrupt BAS*ARDS out!

[locopolaco]

oh yeah, a dumb b!tch at that:

Factchecking Palin
By Hilzoy

Sep 4, 2008
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(Political Animal) Factchecking Palin

I thought Palin's speech was quite good: well-written, well delivered. And, as I said earlier, I think she's a genuinely engaging person, and comes across very well. There were just a couple of problems. One, which I have seen people notice, but which I suspect won't be a big deal for a lot of voters, is that it had very little substance. The other, which the commenters I saw on TV for some reason neglected to mention, was that she told a lot of lies. A few that stood out for me, or that I spotted in my quick run-through of some blogs:

Palin: "To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters. I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House."



Sarah Palin might have changed her mind on this one recently. However, a comment here notes that Palin actually slashed funding for schools for special needs kids by 62%. Budgets: FY 2007 (pre-Palin), 2008, 2009 (all pdfs).

Palin: "As for my running mate, you can be certain that wherever he goes, and whoever is listening, John McCain is the same man."



Steve's list of McCain flip-flops is here. See for yourself whether constancy is, in fact, John McCain's middle name.

Palin: "I told the Congress "thanks, but no thanks," for that Bridge to Nowhere. If our state wanted a bridge, we'd build it ourselves."



Just to reiterate what others have said: Congress' requirement that funds be spent on that bridge (aka the 'earmark') were removed before Sarah Palin became governor. She was therefore in no position to tell Congress anything about the bridge, one way or the other. During her campaign, she said she supported funding for the bridge. Brad Plumer, citing the Anchorage Dialy News via Nexis:

"5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist."



Later, she accepted the money -- now not restricted by an earmark -- and used it for other infrastructure projects. Here's her statement about why she wasn't building the bridge (also via Plumer.) Decide for yourselves what role a principled opposition to earmark funding plays in it. Hint: here's what residents of Ketchikan AK said when they heard her recent remarks:

"In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere," political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska's Congressional delegation during her run for governor. (..)

"People are learning that she pandered to us by saying, I'm for this' ... and then when she found it was politically advantageous for her nationally, abruptly she starts using the very term that she said was insulting," Weinstein said."


Palin: "But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform - not even in the state senate."



Ha, ha, ha. I gave a rundown of Obama's accomplishments in the Senate here. They include the Lugar-Obama bill on nonproliferation, and an ethics reform package that the Washington Post called "the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet." Ruth Marcus summarizes his record on reform:

"He helped pass a far-reaching ethics and campaign finance bill in the Illinois state Senate and made the issue a priority on arriving in Washington. Much to the displeasure of his colleagues, Obama promoted an outside commission to handle Senate ethics complaints. He co-authored the lobbying reform bill awaiting President Bush's signature and pushed -- again to the dismay of some colleagues -- to include a provision requiring lawmakers to report the names of their lobbyist-bundlers. He has co-sponsored bills to overhaul the presidential public financing system and public financing of Senate campaigns."



Not a single major law or reform, indeed.

And I wasn't aware that writing memoirs was something to be ashamed of. Obama has, in fact, written only one. McCain (with Mark Salter) has written at least two.

Palin: "America needs more energy ... our opponent is against producing it."



No -- he plans to develop a lot more energy than John McCain does. It's just that a lot of it is renewable, not carbon-based. Moreover, Obama hasn't skipped the last eight votes on renewable energy.

Palin: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes ... raise payroll taxes ... raise investment income taxes ... raise the death tax ... raise business taxes ... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars. My sister Heather and her husband have just built a service station that's now opened for business - like millions of others who run small businesses. How are they going to be any better off if taxes go up?"



Well, it all depends whose taxes go up, doesn't it? If Heather and her husband make less than $250,000, their taxes will not go up. Most Americans will pay less in taxes under Obama's plan than under McCain's. So they might well be better off.

Those are just the falsehoods that leapt to mind. I'm sure there are others.

Whether or not Sarah Palin's engaging personality matters more than the fact that she tells lies depends a lot on the media, and whether they allow her to say that she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere, or that Obama has neer authored a major law or reform, without calling her on it. I hope they do. But I'm not holding my breath.

fact checking

[grammyk]

Sept 6, 2008 5:39:58 GMT 1 locopolaco said:

oh yeah, a dumb b!tch at that:

She does have you Liberals scared doesn't she?

Makes for a very interesting campaign!

[locopolaco]

Sept 6, 2008 5:44:34 GMT 1 grammyk said:

Sept 6, 2008 5:39:58 GMT 1 locopolaco said:

oh yeah, a dumb b!tch at that:

She does have you Liberals scared doesn't she?

Makes for a very interesting campaign!

liberals? scared? i'm neither but i find the whole repo ticket a joke. it will be interesting. i think those two are wrong for the country, that is all. the straight talk express seems to have turned into hypocrisy ex[ress or double speak express. i sure don't want 4 more years of the same old crap or worse.

did you even read the link? ignoring the facts isn't healthy for us all.

[valpomike]

Loco,

I will stay out of this, as per request, but glad to see, we have someone else in this group with a brain, and will speak there mind. Could be you are wrong, and we are correct.

Mike

[locopolaco]

Sept 6, 2008 17:34:53 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Loco,

I will stay out of this, as per request, but glad to see, we have someone else in this group with a brain, and will speak there mind. Could be you are wrong, and we are correct.

Mike

so, you're ok with christofascism and other crazy backward ideas coming from mac/palin?

[Bonobo]

Guys, do people of varying political views in USA always become so emotional when they meet? ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can imagine a situation when a crazed fan of Kaczyński brothers comes here and starts advertising their beneficial influence on Poland and Europe too. Of course I would react and most probably a heated discussion would follow. I suppose you would gaze in amazement at it: what the hell they are arguing so seriously about? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[locopolaco]

what did kaczynski ever do to you? ;D

seems you answered your own question. A+.

let's add this: aren't politics and religion always the hot, emotional topics anyway?

[gigi]

Sept 7, 2008 1:15:45 GMT 1 locopolaco said:

what did kaczynski ever do to you? ;D

Don't you remember Loco???

Jun 24, 2008 21:45:57 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

I didn`t vote for Kaczynski.

I won`t vote for him in the future.

My major objection:
He is too short and looks stupid standing next to other leaders.

Sept 7, 2008 1:15:45 GMT 1 locopolaco said:

let's add this: aren't politics and religion always the hot, emotional topics anyway?

You forgot the third one... ;D ;D ;D

[valpomike]

Todays press just said, Obama, is the black devil, the anti-Christ. This could be the only truth out of todays press, that is correct.

[grammyk]

Sept 7, 2008 5:11:03 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Todays press just said, Obama, is the black devil, the anti-Christ. This could be the only truth out of todays press, that is correct.

Mike,

I'm no Obama supporter, but........where did you hear or read this. This is just wrong, that kind of "reporting", just as a lot of what the press has said about Sarah Palin is wrong.

Seems there are a lot of nuts with an ax to grind and real reporting is a thing of the past. Everyone has an agenda, and they are not all Honorable.

We have to avoid this kind of scare mongering on all sides if the real facts are to be taken seriously.

I am very disapointed in the media.................how about you?

[jeanne]

Sept 6, 2008 22:29:26 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Guys, do people of varying political views in USA always become so emotional when they meet? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Now do you see why I hate to discuss politics??

[valpomike]

Now, I can prove a point, the press is slanted, to their choice, and only their choice.

We need better reporting of the facts.


Mike

[Bonobo]

Sept 7, 2008 12:34:09 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Sept 6, 2008 22:29:26 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Guys, do people of varying political views in USA always become so emotional when they meet? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Now do you see why I hate to discuss politics??

Your post corroborates that Americans can get too emotional discussing politics. It is strange, I thought you are so easy going people that you ignore differences in opinions.... In the USA a choice of this or other president doesn`t really affect an average citizen. His/her life and work remains the same no matter if Republican or Democrat is chosen for the office. Isn`t it so?

So, why do Americans get so excited about politics? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Bonobo]

Sept 7, 2008 3:05:44 GMT 1 gigi said:

Sept 7, 2008 1:15:45 GMT 1 locopolaco said:

let's add this: aren't politics and religion always the hot, emotional topics anyway?

You forgot the third one... ;D ;D ;D

You mean the one that Mike is always talking and thinking about?

[jeanne]

Sept 7, 2008 19:17:53 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Sept 7, 2008 12:34:09 GMT 1 jeanne said:

Now do you see why I hate to discuss politics??

Your post corroborates that Americans can get too emotional discussing politics. It is strange, I thought you are so easy going people that you ignore differences in opinions.... In the USA a choice of this or other president doesn`t really affect an average citizen. His/her life and work remains the same no matter if Republican or Democrat is chosen for the office. Isn`t it so?

Yes, and I mentioned that in a previous post. All kinds of promises are made, etc, etc., but once the election is over, things pretty much just maintain the status quo in Washington.

So, why do Americans get so excited about politics? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's probably just the excitement of the chase! The chase is much more exciting and fun than the capturing of the prey!!

[gigi]

Just one (more) general comment, not intended to support either party...

It is interesting that the experience levels of Obama and Palin are being compared and disputed so heavily. Doesn't it occur to anyone that they are comparing a presidential candidate with a vice-presidential candidate? Doesn't the Democratic party put themselves at a disadvantage by continuing to focus on this point?

[grammyk]

Sept 8, 2008 16:41:39 GMT 1 gigi said:

Just one (more) general comment, not intended to support either party...

It is interesting that the experience levels of Obama and Palin are being compared and disputed so heavily. Doesn't it occur to anyone that they are comparing a presidential candidate with a vice-presidential candidate? Doesn't the Democratic party put themselves at a disadvantage by continuing to focus on this point?

Gigi,

You are absolutely right! They are making their candidate look more and more unqualified for the presidency by highlighting Sarah's accomplishments.

grammyk

[locopolaco]

Sept 7, 2008 5:18:37 GMT 1 grammyk said:

Sept 7, 2008 5:11:03 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Todays press just said, Obama, is the black devil, the anti-Christ. This could be the only truth out of todays press, that is correct.

Mike,

I'm no Obama supporter, but........where did you hear or read this. This is just wrong, that kind of "reporting", just as a lot of what the press has said about Sarah Palin is wrong.

Seems there are a lot of nuts with an ax to grind and real reporting is a thing of the past. Everyone has an agenda, and they are not all Honorable.

We have to avoid this kind of scare mongering on all sides if the real facts are to be taken seriously.

I am very disapointed in the media.................how about you?

rush, i am sure.

[valpomike]

Loco,

You say your are not for Obama, what a joke, you sure are, even if you don't know it, you are.
I on the other hand, hope he does not make it, or I am sure someone will shoot him, like MLK, and make a hero out of him, and another day for the schools to be closed.


Mike

[gigi]

Sept 9, 2008 0:50:13 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Loco,

You say your are not for Obama, what a joke, you sure are, even if you don't know it, you are.

The quote about not being an Obama supporter is from Mary, not Loco. Loco's comment was that you got all of that "black devil anti-Christ" stuff from Rush - as in Limbaugh.

I on the other hand, hope he does not make it, or I am sure someone will shoot him, like MLK, and make a hero out of him, and another day for the schools to be closed.

1) I hope that no one shoots Obama - ever.

2) MLK was a hero because of what he believed in, and what he fought for - not because he was assassinated. And he left us with a heck of a lot more than a day for schools to be closed.

[valpomike]

What do you all think of Obama's remark, put lipstick on a pig, and you still have a pig?

I don't think it was needed, do you?

This is just another example of a man who can not think on his feet, alone.

Mike

[locopolaco]

you pick on som ebs comment from BO but completely ignore the outright lies from mac/palin? USA is about to go down the tubes with that kind of ignorance. sheesh

[valpomike]

What are the outright lies you speak of?

Tell us all.

Mike