Polish politics and economy

[valpomike]

Dear group,

I would love feedback from all, since this upset me somewhat.

Mike

[locopolaco]

Aug 25, 2008 15:23:52 GMT 1 valpomike said:

But what is in it for America? Just cost and having troops away from home.

What do the Polish think is the reason for this?

Other place like England and others, are not the U.S.A. and must not be grouped together.

another footprint USA can make in EU. the question really should be "what's in it for PL?" now PL is the front line of the new cold war and as you might have read the reds have threatened PL with nukes since the signing of the missile hosting deal.

and to what bonobo said, just look at the latest from Georgia. so, where was USA when the red tanks rolled on in?

[valpomike]

Loco,

I guess you are not a American, since this is your thinking. The U.S.A. was the only one when this started in Georgia, to say anything, even the U.N. would not, and if it does not change, we, the Americans will take action. We did all over the world, and will keep being the bodyguard to the world.
I am ashamed of your think on this. Maybe you should go back to Poland, if we are no good.

Mike

P.S. You never told me, or us, if you could vote, and if you are a American.

[gigi]

Aug 25, 2008 20:13:04 GMT 1 locopolaco said:

... the question really should be "what's in it for PL?" now PL is the front line of the new cold war and as you might have read the reds have threatened PL with nukes since the signing of the missile hosting deal.

and to what bonobo said, just look at the latest from Georgia. so, where was USA when the red tanks rolled on in?

There is an interesting article from Russia Today. An excerpt:

Until recently there was opposition in Poland because of concerns it could aggravate relations with its neighbour and push the two countries further apart - but this has changed overnight.

“Unfortunately the war in Georgia has very sharply and quickly changed the mood of the Polish public opinion and in perhaps a week the majority of the Poles support the deployment of the American missile shield,” explains political analyst Grzegorz Kostrzeva-Zorbas.


The full article:
www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29247

So from this and many other similar articles, it would appear that the Georgia-Russia war helped to get the Poland-U.S. deal signed. However, there are also many articles out there that criticize the U.S. siding with Georgia's interests, but then standing back while the Georgia-Russia situation escalated.

An excerpt from the article "The United States Shares the Blame for the Russia-Georgia Crisis":

...Bush administration officials, especially the vice president's office and some (but definitely not all) in the State Department, recklessly encouraged Saakashvili and other senior Georgian officials to believe that Tbilisi had a blank check from Washington. They do not appear to have done this deliberately; in fact, American officials have repeatedly told the Georgian government that the status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia should be resolved peacefully. But the United States regularly undermined this important message by routinely siding with Georgia in its frequent spats with Moscow, providing hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid, and essentially ignoring Saakashvili's growing authoritarianism. More important, the United States provided extensive military aid and training for Georgian troops. Some have argued that this help increased Georgian leaders' confidence that military action in South Ossetia could succeed.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice added fuel to this fire on July 10 when appearing beside Saakashvili in Tbilisi, she said, "Mr. President, we always fight for our friends." Although it is clear from the State Department transcript that Secretary Rice was referring to U.S. willingness to fight European opposition to begin the process of bringing Georgia into NATO by offering a membership action plan at a scheduled December summit, most in the region viewed it as a thinly veiled expression of support for the Georgian regime at a time when tensions were already growing over South Ossetia and Abkhazia. As in the case of U.S. involvement in Kosovo, American officials seemed to miss the difference between what they think they are saying and what others think they are hearing.

Full article:

www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/08/12/the-united-states-shares-the-blame-for-the-russia-georgia-crisis.html?PageNr=2

One key point for the second article is the last statement: "American officials seemed to miss the difference between what they think they are saying and what others think they are hearing."
For Poland's sake, I hope they specified exactly what kind of support they are to receive in writing.

I don't know the content of the actual treaty documents signed by Condoleezza Rice and Radoslaw Sikorski, but they supposedly include a guarantee of U.S. assistance if Poland is attacked.

A quote from Rice:

"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats [made by Russia against Poland in response to the treaty signing] around."

That sounds good on paper, but I can understand Poland's concern about exactly when/how the U.S. would defend Poland if Russia were to attack.

The deal apparently also includes a provision to improve Poland's armed forces.

Along with the main deal, the two nations signed a so-called "declaration on strategic cooperation," which is to deepen their military and political partnership.

It includes a mutual commitment to come to each other's assistance immediately if one is under attack — enhancing existing obligations both have as NATO members.

The declaration also was accompanied by a promise from the U.S. to help modernize Poland's armed forces and to place a battery of Patriot missiles there by 2012.

Rice said the deal "will help both the alliance and Poland and the United States respond to the coming threats."

Let's all hope that they remain just that - threats.

Additional excerpts/quotes from AP

[locopolaco]

Aug 25, 2008 23:17:11 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Loco,

I guess you are not a American, since this is your thinking. The U.S.A. was the only one when this started in Georgia, to say anything, even the U.N. would not, and if it does not change, we, the Americans will take action. We did all over the world, and will keep being the bodyguard to the world.
I am ashamed of your think on this. Maybe you should go back to Poland, if we are no good.

Mike

P.S. You never told me, or us, if you could vote, and if you are a American.

lol.. that's pretty funny. what i said before is the truth. you may not like to read what i wrote but that's not my problem. USA stood by while Georgia got pulverized. I sure haven't seen anything but talk from US government and that's my worry when it comes to PL. I know PL will jump, as it always has, when USA asks but I just have huge doubts the other way around. Rice and Shrubco have shown lack of respect and lack of being in touch with reality and full tongues of lies.... Scary stuff.. Hope the Russkies don't pull any BS.


excellent links gig. thanks

[gigi]

U.S. to give Poland five C-130 Hercules planes
08:46, August 26, 2008

Poland will get from the United States five 40-year-old C-130 Hercules transport planes as part of allied assistance, Rzeczpospolita daily reported on Monday.

The first one is expected in Poland in October and the last one in 2012. 50 Polish pilots and technicians are being trained in the U.S. to service the planes.

According to the newspaper, the planes will be used for soldier and equipment transport for military missions. At present the Polish Air Forces use Spanish CASA C-295M which are not fit for long routes and the transport of heavy equipment.

from peopledaily.com


***********************************************************************
Don't get too excited about the "40 year-old" part - Herks that have been properly maintained can last for many decades.

The C-130 aircraft design goes back to the 1950s and while that seems old, the fundamental design is solid and these aircraft, if properly maintained, can continue in service for many years to come. The C-130 is still in production today. The C-130s currently in service date from the 1960s all the way through brand new C-130Js.

Note to Poland: Even if these aircraft are a "gift", ask for past aircraft service records and negotiate a future maintenance schedule.

[locopolaco]

that's my problem with this deal. PL gets used up american junk as part of this deal. i guess that's what was ment byt "modernizing" polish army. btw. negotiations are over.. PL gets what it gets.

[gigi]

The aircraft that Poland receives should be C130Es, as I believe all of the C-130A, B, and D versions are now retired.

There are still C130E's operating in the U.S. The oldest Air Force C-130E is still operating out of Selfridge Air National Guard base in Michigan. It was deployed to Kadena Air Base in Okinawa in February to support Operation Enduring Freedom. It was built in 1961.

Info on the C-130:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-130_Hercules

A list of C-130 operators:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C-130_Hercules_operators

[valpomike]

Loco,

You still hide your answer, ARE YOU A AMERICAN, or not?

Why won't you say? If you think we, the Americans are so unfair to Poland, you should think of going back.
What did France, England, or Germany do on the Georgia thing, we gave them a treath, and will act, when, and if we need.

Mike

[valpomike]

Loco,

Poland did not have to take the planes, and since they were not paying for them the price was great. They can go to Russia, or Germany, or France, or England, and get better planes if they want.
I case, you did not notice, you are making me very mad, with all your Un-American crap, more so, since you don't even know of what you talk of.

I served in the U.S. Air Force, where did you serve? I think we all know the answer, no place, and will not, just stand on the side and bitch, and act like a women.

If you are unhappy with the U.S.A. don't take any more of our money, more than you ever made in Poland, and go back.

To the rest of you, I am sorry, but this kind of thinking is way out of line, and must be corrected, at once.

Mike

[gigi]

Aug 26, 2008 21:46:12 GMT 1 valpomike said:

I served in the U.S. Air Force, where did you serve? I think we all know the answer, no place, and will not, just stand on the side and pregnant dog, and act like a women.

Mike, I get the "pregnant dog" comment, but I don't know exactly what you are saying with the "act like a woman" comment. I am interested in hearing the meaning of such a comment...

In my opinion, we are all entitled to express our opinions about this or any other political situation, regardless of our sex, our nationality, or our military status.

In addition, I do feel compelled to add that women currently make up about 20% of the U.S. military.

[valpomike]

Sorry on the women thing, but most men of the past believed women to be weak, and unable to take care of them self, but we know this is not true, don't we.

Still in a lot of cases, women are smaller and more frail that men, I love them for that.

[valpomike]

Loco,

Where are you, hiding again, well you think of a way to post without answering my questions. Does this make you unhappy, and your posting made me? I can only hope so.

To the rest of the group, I am sorry, but this hurts me, someone who loves Poland, and does not think that others think as he does, and believe that the people of Poland, are happy for any and all help we have and will give them. We have never asked of Poland to give back, but they did help by sending troops to help us in the war, and this is great.

Let me know what you think on this.

Mike

[gigi]

Solidarity marches in Warsaw this Friday
28th August 2008

Labor Minister Jolanta Fedak declared yesterday that the planned manifestation of the Solidarity trade union in Warsaw is a, "Sign of support for the government."

Friday's demonstration will be the largest in years, as the capital city will see the arrival of tens of thousands of disgruntled workers from different sectors including miners, shipbuilding employees, teachers, as well as employees of the health sector. They will all gather under the common slogan "proper pay, proper retirement."

The Labor Minister, who surprised everyone with her annoucement declared that as long as the unionists are in talks with the government she is not expecting anti-government demonstrations.

She was strongly criticized by the partipants of the planned demonstration who declared that they are not coming to Warsaw to praise the works of the government.

Source: Dziennik (A.K.)

[locopolaco]

Aug 26, 2008 21:46:12 GMT 1 valpomike said:

To the rest of you, I am sorry, but this kind of thinking is way out of line, and must be corrected, at once.

Mike

i agree so, quit it NOW.

[locopolaco]

Aug 26, 2008 21:46:12 GMT 1 valpomike said:

Poland did not have to take the planes, and since they were not paying for them the price was great. They can go to Russia, or Germany, or France, or England, and get better planes if they want.

and that's correct. PL has to live with the deal they made. i can live with that but i think PL got a raw deal unless something changed from the previous offer.


EDIT: and it seems that this latest version of the deal was way better that any of the previous offers. all this is for naught anyway, as BO says he'll cut funding for this shield when he becomes the prez.

[valpomike]

Loco,

I am still waiting you answers to my past several questions. Are you not a man enough to answer them, but we all know the answer to that one.
I never knew you were able to think.

Mike

[Bonobo]

Aug 28, 2008 14:06:07 GMT 1 gigi said:

Solidarity marches in Warsaw this Friday
28th August 2008

Labor Minister Jolanta Fedak declared yesterday that the planned manifestation of the Solidarity trade union in Warsaw is a, "Sign of support for the government."

She must be crazy to say so or it is a new (or old if we count communist media) method of creating reality. Of course then traders have marched against the government. Unfortunately, the financial duvet/blanket is too short and can`t cover all needs.

Traders threw firecrackers at the government`s building and shouted: Thieves!

www.tvn24.pl/-1,1562878,0,1,petardy-w-kancelarie-premiera,wiadomosc.html

[Bonobo]

www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/08/29/cnrussia129.xml

The British paper warns of Russians cutting down on or even off oil/gas supplies to Poland and Germany. Why? Because these two countries` governments support Georgia and criticize Russia for handling the conflict in Caucasus.

I like the title of the article:
Russia may cut off oil flow to the West.

Has Poland been rated as West at last??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Or is it simply in connection with unpredictable Russia which sometimes acts like a European, sometimes another country? ;D ;D ;D


Fears are mounting that Russia may restrict oil deliveries to Western Europe over coming days, in response to the threat of EU sanctions and Nato naval actions in the Black Sea.

Any such move would be a dramatic escalation of the Georgia crisis and play havoc with the oil markets.

Reports have begun to circulate in Moscow that Russian oil companies are under orders from the Kremlin to prepare for a supply cut to Germany and Poland through the Druzhba (Friendship) pipeline. It is believed that executives from lead-producer LUKoil have been put on weekend alert.

"They have been told to be ready to cut off supplies as soon as Monday," claimed a high-level business source, speaking to The Daily Telegraph. Any move would be timed to coincide with an emergency EU summit in Brussels, where possible sanctions against Russia are on the agenda.

[gigi]

Silesian ‘nationalists’ for South Ossetia and Abkhazia independence?
Created: 29.08.2008 15:18

The Union of People of Silesian Nationality (ZLNS), a group campaigning for recognition of a separate Silesian, and not Polish, nationality, are demanding that Warsaw recognize breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The Union of People of Silesian Nationality (ZLNS) want Poland to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia as states independent from Georgia and have handed in a petition to the Prime Minister in Warsaw.

In the petition to PM Donald Tusk, the union reminded that Poland was one of the first countries to acknowledge Kosovo's independence, therefore it should be one of the first to recognize that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent states.

"Poland should not be talking about freedom and at the same time ignore Georgia's armed attack on a people that do not want to live in one country with the Georgians," wrote the union.
According to the ZLNS, ethnic cleansing was prevented only thanks to the quick reaction of the Russian army and called Georgia's actions "belligerent".

The Union of People of Silesian Nationality, a federation of people pledging they are for a separate Silesian nationality, has not been officially registered, although its members have been trying to do that for 12 years. Polish courts consistently rule that registering such a union would involve recognizing the Silesian national minority, which does not exist legally.

According to the newest national census, 173,000 people declared they are of Silesian nationality. The union has been appealing in vain to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

The Polish government and president, however, are staunch supporters of the Georgian position in the conflict in the Caucuses – so the hopes are not too high among ‘nationalists’ from Silesia that their demands will be listened to. (mo)

thenews.pl

[valpomike]

We, the Americans want to stand with the people of Georgia. Bush said, he would, and now if we could get others and the U.N. to make a stand this could be put down, as it should.

[Bonobo]

Aug 29, 2008 22:42:47 GMT 1 gigi said:

Silesian ‘nationalists’ for South Ossetia and Abkhazia independence?
Created: 29.08.2008 15:18

The Union of People of Silesian Nationality (ZLNS), a group campaigning for recognition of a separate Silesian, and not Polish, nationality, are demanding that Warsaw recognize breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The Union of People of Silesian Nationality (ZLNS) want Poland to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia as states independent from Georgia and have handed in a petition to the Prime Minister in Warsaw.

In the petition to PM Donald Tusk, the union reminded that Poland was one of the first countries to acknowledge Kosovo's independence, therefore it should be one of the first to recognize that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent states.
"Poland should not be talking about freedom and at the same time ignore Georgia's armed attack on a people that do not want to live in one country with the Georgians," wrote the union.
According to the ZLNS, ethnic cleansing was prevented only thanks to the quick reaction of the Russian army and called Georgia's actions "belligerent".
The Union of People of Silesian Nationality, a federation of people pledging they are for a separate Silesian nationality, has not been officially registered, although its members have been trying to do that for 12 years. Polish courts consistently rule that registering such a union would involve recognizing the Silesian national minority, which does not exist legally.
According to the newest national census, 173,000 people declared they are of Silesian nationality. The union has been appealing in vain to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
The Polish government and president, however, are staunch supporters of the Georgian position in the conflict in the Caucuses – so the hopes are not too high among ‘nationalists’ from Silesia that their demands will be listened to. (mo)
thenews.pl

If anyone declares oneself a Silesian, it`s OK as long as they add they are Polish too.

When they say they are only Silesian, it means they are of German origin.

It is funny when modern Germans living in Poland demand sovereignty. It reminds of Nazi Germany`s pressure on Poland over the recognition of the German right to Silesia and other lands which eventually led to war .

Besides, do Poles living in Germany demand sovereignty for themselves?

Let`s be serious....

[Bonobo]

Aug 29, 2008 23:52:58 GMT 1 valpomike said:

We, the Americans want to stand with the people of Georgia. Bush said, he would, and now if we could get others and the U.N. to make a stand this could be put down, as it should.

Mike, what do you know about the conflict in Georgia? What and who exactly do you want to stand for?

[valpomike]

The only thing I know is what the slanted, bias press, let's us have, and wanted to know the correct facts, from those there, or near by.

I think, like Bush, this action by Russia, must be stopped, and the killing stopped at once. We don't need another war, do we.

If we don't stop the Russians at this, who know when they will want to take over Poland.

[Bonobo]

The matter of CIA prisons in Poland persistently comes back



CIA Prisons in Poland: a Story of Revelation
Wojciech Czuchnowsk
Gazeta Wyborcza
2008-09-05

Politicians of almost all parties in Poland have kept denying
whether the CIA illegally held terrorists in secret prisons in
Poland.

The first to report about secret Central Intelligence Agency prisons
in Europe where alleged Al Qaeda members were held was the
Washington Post on 2 November 205. The story was based on anonymous
sources within the CIA.

From Press Reports to Official Inquiries

The history of the article's publication (Dana Priest won a Pulitzer
for it) is dramatic. President George W. Bush intervened when the
newspaper was to go to print, asking for certain details - the names
of the countries where the detention centres were located, and the
names of the prisoners - to be withheld.

On 7 November, Human Rights Watch, the human rights organisation,
said the prisoners had been held in Poland and Romania, among other
places. In December, ABC News reported the names of twelve
terrorists who had supposedly been held in Poland, among them Khalid
Sheik Mohammad, the mastermind of the World Trade Centre attack.

At the same time, European press reported on a whole 'global network
of secret CIA prisons', mentioning countries not only in Europe, but
also in Africa and the Middle East. Newspapers wrote about EU
governments cooperating with the Americans and handing terrorist
suspects over to them. The whole story was presented in Ewa Ewart's
BBC documentary about secret landings of CIA airplanes in Europe. EU
institutions started investigating the matter. Three reports were
drawn up confirming the prisons' existence in Poland and Romania:
the Council of Europe's (June 2006), the European Parliament's
(November 2006), and the European Commission's (November 2007). All
three were based on circumstantial evidence and anonymous sources.

President Bush's Admission

In September 2006, President George W. Bush admitted that the US had
indeed used facilities in countries - members of the anti-terrorist
alliance. He refused to name the countries. He denied whether the
detainees had been tortured.

Poland was named most emphatically by the New York Times in a June
2008 report that described in detail the interrogations at the
military intelligence training centre in Stare Kiejkuty in north-
eastern Poland. It even stated the name of one of the interrogators -
Deuce Martinez. The report's author, Scott Shane, talked to a
number of former CIA officers. According to them, the Polish prisons
was 'the most important one' for the CIA. 'Many' Al Qaeda terrorists
were held there for months.

According to the report's author, Khalid Sheik Mohammad was
tortured. Special interrogation tactics, such as sleep deprivation,
frigid temperatures, fear, pain, simulated drowning - were used
about one hundred times on Mr Muhammad over two weeks.

Europe Reprimands Poland

In Poland, politicians from all sides consistently denied the
existence of alleged 'CIA prisons'.

'This is groundless slander', then PM Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz (PiS)
said in 2006.

'No secret CIA prisons existed in Poland, whether during my term or
before that', President Lech Kaczyñski stressed in June 2007.

'Poland and the US have had long cooperated on intelligence matters.
But the prisons never existed', ex-president Aleksander Kwaœniewski
reiterated last week.

Also Civic Platform deputies familiar with Polish-US intelligence
cooperation joined in the denials. 'This is an attempt to challenge
the very basis of the fight against terrorism with lies', deputy
Pawe³ Graœ said in 2006. PO-recommended MEP Barbara Kudrycka
(presently the Minister of Science) successfully lobbied for the
information about a 'secret detention centre' in Stare Kiejkuty to
be removed from the European Parliament's report. Some Polish
officials refused to testify before the Parliament's committee of
inquiry. The Polish government also refused to hand over a list of
CIA-operated aircraft that landed in Szymany near Kiejkuty in 2002-
2005.

The European Parliament committee said the Polish government had
been 'grossly' uncooperative, and the delegation of the committee
members had been ignored by both cabinet and parliament. The Polish
press joined in the politicians' denials, not doing much to find out
whether the allegations were true, and in some cases actually
defending the government's position.

Siemi¹tkowski' s Secret

Both the politicians and the press were acting under the pressure of
the argument that investigating the matter more closely could expose
Poland to a terrorist attack.

Today, they repeat the argument in unofficial conversations, but
they admit that, following the Europarl and global media reports,
continuing to hide the truth makes no sense.

Zbigniew Siemi¹tkowski, head of the Intelligence Agency in the SLD
administration in 2002-2004, as one of few Polish politicians, has
inside knowledge about what went on in Kiejkuty. He appeared before
the Europarl committee, but testified that the agency he headed has
done nothing illegal.

Today he also says he is sworn to secrecy. 'And that's what I'll
tell the prosecutors too', he tells Gazeta.

[Bonobo]

Fifty percent of Poles still without Internet
thenews.pl
04.09.2008

Over 20 million Poles have no regular and permanent access to the
Internet and 15 million have no contact with the Net at all.

The so-called `digital divide' remains a gasping chasm in Poland.
According to the Central Statistical Office, as many as 60 percent of
households in Poland (8 million people) are already socially excluded
due to the lack of the Internet connection.

The phenomenon of the digital divide, that is the gap between those with effective access to information and digital technology and those without it, has already been identified as a major problem which needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

Experts point to the fact that the people without the Internet access have difficulties in finding a job, retraining or gaining knowledge; the more so as the victims of the digital divide are mostly the poor.

The statistics show that among the unemployed and beneficiaries of
social services the number of those without Internet connection
amounts even up to 64 and 73 percent.

According to specialists, the best way to equalise chances would be a popularisation of public wireless Internet.

[valpomike]

Do you think that they were help in Poland? I don't, but so what if they were. The Polish would not treat them unfair, I am sure.

Mike

[gigi]

Sept 6, 2008 6:47:32 GMT 1 Bonobo said:

Fifty percent of Poles still without Internet...

...According to specialists, the best way to equalise chances would be a popularisation of public wireless Internet.

It sounds as though steps are being taken to change this in Warsaw. Not completely free, but only about 20 USD.

Free internet in Warsaw
2008-09-04
Poland.com

Free internet in Zoliborz (a district of Warsaw) next year, and in two years time in whole Warsaw? It is quite feasible, because the city authorities are willing to spend even 40 million zloty on the wireless networks development.

City authorities want that in 2010 all people in Warsaw would be able to benefit from free wireless Internet. – We want this exclusive good become a widespread good. This will be our small civilization breakthrough - explains Thomas Andryszczyk, the spokesman of city hall.

With free Internet people in Warsaw will benefit not only in their homes. Many schools, houses of culture, children's homes and hospitals will also have an access to the network. Anyone who wants to benefit from urban free Internet, will have to buy a WiFi card for roughly 50 zloty. And then he will not have to pay anything.

[valpomike]

Someone, and could be several, would know for sure. This could not be kept secret for long, I am sure. What do you think?

Mike

[gigi]

Russia doesn't see Poland as a threat
11th September 2008

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov during his visit to Warsaw on Thursday said that Russia hasn't changed its stance on the US missile defense system and cannot ignore the fact that the system will be located close to the Russian border

Foreign Minister Lavrov, during a press conference with his counterpart Radosław Sikorski, further emphasized that Russia does not see any threats from Poland, but rather the issue lies with the location of the missile system. "We cannot ignore the fact that the missile elements are part of the US defense system," Lavrov told journalists.

During the talks, Poland tried to convince Russia it will be consulted during the building of the system and promised transparency. "The Polish side is trying to understand our fears," said Lavrov.

Poland's decision to sign the US missile defense deal in August has sparked repeated warnings that Russian ballistic rockets could be aimed at US defense sites in Europe, however Lavrov emphasized that Poland has nothing to fear.

"I hope that Russia's fears towards the shield at one point will subside," said Sikorski adding that "Generals should watch their words, so they don't threaten Europe" in reference to recent threats.

The missile defense shield was not the only item on the agenda, as both ministers talked about Georgia, NATO and strengthening Polish-Russian relations regarding the movement of people and trade.

When asked about Russia's stance on Georgia and Ukraine joining NATO, Lavrov emphasized that Moscow's opinion of NATO remains the same and forceful integration into the bloc does more harm than good. "Artificial integration of new states into NATO is harmful," he said.

Meanwhile, Sikorski emphasized that in order for membership to occur, the countries need to meet criteria and show a willingness adding that Poland recognizes the stabilizing effect membership with NATO has for countries.

source: www.wbj.pl/article-42503-russia-doesnt-see-poland-as-a-threat.html?typ=wbj