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Post by Bonobo on Oct 16, 2008 20:27:12 GMT 1
True, the thread wouldn't make much sense in the current circumstances in the forum. Unless one of us plays a devil`s advocate and adopts a position defending the President. Which of us two shall do it? I didn`t mean their deep political background, i.e., Solidarity movement and years spent in active opposition against communism. I meant Kaczyński`s recent background, all this hurra-patriotic bunch of crazed right wing fanatics from PiS party. As a man of the centre and wise compromise, I cannot accept any fanaticism because it always causes more harm than good. Yeap, the guy sucks like hell!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hmm..... I dislike your attitude towards Donald Tusk, the most charming, intelligent, agreeable PM ever... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by tufta on Oct 17, 2008 8:30:42 GMT 1
I didn`t mean their deep political background, i.e., Solidarity movement and years spent in active opposition against communism. I meant Kaczyński`s recent background, all this hurra-patriotic bunch of crazed right wing fanatics from PiS party. As a man of the centre and wise compromise, I cannot accept any fanaticism because it always causes more harm than good. Yes, I knew what you meant. But this recent change in Kaczynski's background does not disqualify the whole formation and is solely the result of Kaczynski personality problems, not the false or fanatic political fundamentals. The fundamentals are almost exactly the same as Platforma Obywatelska (my present choice). Besides I don't think being in the centre of political spectrum is the same to be compromise-prone, neither it exludes a fanaticism. The 'centre-fanatisicim' is often being nondescript, unable to take any risk (the most dangerous state of the mind) and at the same time bigheaded. Such a state happened to the Unia Wolności party and it is out of parliament now. |
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 27, 2008 22:50:42 GMT 1
This news proves Poland is a developing country and needs to catch up with the rest of the world, not only with the USa and whole West but also Russia, Iran, Korea, etc etc. There is a lot of work to do here..... While in Warsaw during summer vacation, I wanted to take a ride by subway, but we were short of time. Maybe on our next visit .... Warsaw finishes first subway line after 25 years
2008-10-25
WARSAW, Poland (AP) - The Polish capital celebrated the completion of its first subway line on Saturday, 25 years after the project was launched.
Though the north-south metro line first started running in 1995, its
completion was long delayed by financial and other problems.
On Saturday, three northern stations were finally put into operation, extending the subway's course to 14 miles (23 kilometers). To celebrate, Warsaw offered free travel on the 23-stop line Saturday afternoon.
Construction began in 1983 under communism but was slowed in part by a lack of equipment. Seven years later communism fell and money was short as the country changed to a market economy.
City authorities plan to build a second, east-west line, but there is
no timetable for how long that might take.
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Post by Bonobo on Oct 27, 2008 23:42:17 GMT 1
Platforma Obywatelska (my present choice). The most recent poll: Trust:  Distrust  |
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Post by locopolaco on Oct 28, 2008 6:43:23 GMT 1
[ Distrust lol. the twins "awaken distrust." very funny.  |
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Post by valpomike on Oct 28, 2008 16:04:16 GMT 1
I never try and tell you, of Poland, who is best for you. You need to live there and investigate to know, and I don't. This is why I say, Europe must not try and pick our leaders. We can do this our selfs.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 6, 2008 20:25:28 GMT 1
lol. the twins "awaken distrust." very funny. What`s so funny? It isn`t funny, it`s sad, even tragic. Those guys are so fanatically conservative that it becomes harmful to the country.... Loco, you may call them ducks if you want. They won`t sue you...
Court: OK to call Polish leaders 'ducks'
11/3/08
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland's president and opposition leader can be legally referred to as ducks after a court ruled Monday that a
play on the twin brothers' last name was not slanderous.
The court ruled on a complaint by President Lech Kaczynski's office
against writer Jerzy Pilch, who repeatedly referred to the president
and his brother Jaroslaw as "Kaczory" or "Ducks" when writing a
column for the Dziennik daily newspaper.
The name Kaczynski derives from "kaczka," the word for "duck." The
word doesn't carry negative connotations in Polish, but few
political leaders would find it a compliment to be compared to the
animal.
An unidentified citizen filed the complaint along with the
president's office, saying that the moniker was slanderous. But
Judge Alina Rychlinska ruled that comparing people to animals does
not always mean an insult.
The Kaczynskis previously took a humorous approach to the duck
nickname.
They made the duck a symbol of their right-wing Law and Justice
party during a 2005 campaign that won Jaroslaw the prime minister's office and Lech the presidency.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski also fed ducks in front of the media in a Warsaw
park in 2006. He has been in the opposition since losing a 2007
election.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 6, 2008 20:36:35 GMT 1
Yes, I knew what you meant. But this recent change in Kaczynski's background does not disqualify the whole formation and is solely the result of Kaczynski personality problems, not the false or fanatic political fundamentals. The fundamentals are almost exactly the same as Platforma Obywatelska (my present choice). Not quite. Kaczyński brothers have a powerful dictatorial grip on their party, anyone who disagrees with them is dropped in a nasty style. Therefore, all PiS party members who support the party line automatically become as harmful as their leaders. Being in this party is the symbol of backwardness to me. As for Kaczyński`s emotional problems:
President Condemned for 'Threat' to Reporter
The Warsaw Voice
10/29/08
President Lech Kaczyñski has come under fire from an international
press freedom watchdog after he allegedly threatened to "destroy" a prominent Polish journalist who questioned him on his tense
relationship with the government.
Private broadcaster TVN24 has sent an official letter to the National
Radio and Television Council requesting that it takes a stand over
the "threats" against reporter Monika Olejnik, the popular anchor of
the Kropka nad i (Dotting the i) current affairs program.
In the letter, the station details a discussion between Kaczyñski and the anchor, as reported by Olejnik and several witnesses. The
president is alleged to have said "you are on my shortlist" and "I'll
destroy you." Kaczyñski also addressed Olejnik as "Daisy," which the media have interpreted as an insinuation that she collaborated with the security services under a code name.
The incident took place on the evening of Oct. 15 following a special
broadcast of an interview with Kaczyñski during an EU summit in
Brussels. The president had attended against the wishes of the Polish government. His outburst is thought to have been provoked by the reporter pressing him on touchy issues regarding his relationship with the government of Prime Minister Donald Tusk.
Kaczyñski telephoned the reporter two days later and apologized. He also sent 11 red roses. Olejnik accepted the apology. Kaczyñski said later that he considers the matter closed. "I have been nicer to
ladies over the course of my life, which is why I apologized," he
said.
Reporters Without Borders, an international group that fights against censorship and laws that undermine press freedom, said on its website, "We firmly condemn this harassment of Monika Olejnik. Lech Kaczyñski's remarks are not worthy of a president, especially the president of a European Union member country.
"Europe is supposed to set an example in respect for press freedom, starting with responsible behavior by its leaders," it added.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 6, 2008 21:03:40 GMT 1
What`s so funny? It isn`t funny, it`s sad, even tragic. Those guys are so fanatically conservative that it becomes harmful to the country....
Polish political feud hampers reforms, euro plan
By Gareth Jones
REUTERS
October 21, 2008
WARSAW – The long-running feud between Poland's president and prime minister can sometimes appear comical to the point of farce, but their rivalry could carry a hefty price tag at a time of deepening
global economic gloom.
Last week, the government denied President Lech Kaczynski a place in the official Polish delegation to attend a European Union summit in Brussels and then refused to let him use a government plane, prompting him to charter a private jet.
Poland's foreign minister had begged him 'on bended knee' to stay
away from the summit, which was dominated by the global financial
crisis, saying he would harm Warsaw's negotiating position. In the
event, Kaczynski showed up briefly, then left. Investors laughed off
the incident but they are also aware such spats, rooted in
ideological and personal rivalry, hinder the kind of cooperation
Poland needs to keep its economy growing strongly and its plans to
join the euro firmly on track.
'We are now in a global financial crisis, we don't want to deal with
two politicians pinching each other under the table,' said one Warsaw- based economist who asked not to be identified.
Prime Minister Donald Tusk's government sounds frustrated.
'I have the impression the president is sabotaging the work of the
government and the parliament,' Zbigniew Chlebowski, a senior member of Tusk's economically liberal, staunchly pro-EU Civic Platform, told Reuters in an interview.
'His actions are harmful for the country and economy.'
Aides of Kaczynski, a conservative Eurosceptic, accuse the government of trying to sideline the president who they say is merely trying to perform his constitutional duties, which include representing Poland overseas.
POWER OF VETO
In Poland, the government sets and implements policy but the
president can veto laws. Kaczynski has vowed to block some government reforms, including planned cuts in the number of people taking early retirement to help rein in state spending.
Last week, in similarly populist vein, Kaczynski called for a
referendum on government plans to make hospitals operate on a
commercial basis, though that move is unlikely to succeed.
He has also slammed Tusk's ambitious plan to adopt the euro in 2012, saying Poland should aim for a much later entry date.
'Kaczynski has so far been quite a passive president but he now wants to be more active ... showing he represents a more socially oriented policy that stresses the need for solidarity in time of crisis,'
Pawel Spiewak of Warsaw University said.
Kaczynski, who has called for increased powers for the president,
plans meetings in coming days with economists and then with cabinet ministers to discuss the financial crisis.
Analysts say Kaczynski works hand-in-glove with his twin brother
Jaroslaw, former prime minister and head of the main opposition,
Eurosceptic Law and Justice party (PiS).
The government, stung by criticism that fear of a presidential veto
has stymied its reform plans, has indicated it is now ready to take
the fight to Kaczynski.
'We want to send 140 bills to the president (for signing) by next
month ... Whatever the president does, we will press on with our
reform plans. If he vetoes them, we will push them again after the
presidential election (due in 2010),' Chlebowski told Reuters.
But that election, in which Tusk is widely expected to run against
Kaczynski, is an eternity away for investors and financial markets
keen to see swift progress on promised health and pension reforms, privatisations and cutting red tape.
'The government has to hurry up with reforms before it starts to lose support because of the economic slowdown, which could strengthen the populists,' said Lena Kolarska-Bobinska, head of the pro-EU Institute of Public Affairs think-tank.
CONFLICT AHEAD
Poland has so far weathered the global financial crisis relatively
well – its banks have little exposure to the toxic credits that have
played havoc in some other countries – but economic growth is
expected to slow sharply next year.
Encouragingly for the government, opinion polls continue to give Tusk and his party a big lead over the Kaczynski twins. A majority of
Poles also backed Tusk over Kaczynski in last week's spat over who
should represent Poland at the Brussels EU summit.
'But that support cannot be taken for granted, especially at a time
of economic downturn ... I think the conflicts will get much worse as
elections draw nearer,' said Kolarska-Bobinska.
The key test now for the government is the plan to join the euro in
2012, a target date that will require Poland to put its zloty
currency into a trading band against the euro – the so-called
European exchange rate mechanism – during 2009.
But the government needs the support of at least some PiS lawmakers to make the necessary constitutional changes required to allow Poland to join the euro. Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who shares his brother's scepticism on the euro, has refused to cooperate.
'The global financial crisis shows that it is better to be inside the
eurozone than out, but it will not be easy for our politicians to
reach a consensus to get us there,' said Maciej Reluga, chief
economist at BZ WBK bank in Warsaw. |
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gigi
Kindergarten kid
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Post by gigi on Nov 6, 2008 23:26:19 GMT 1
Loco, you may call them ducks if you want. They won`t sue you...
Court: OK to call Polish leaders 'ducks'
11/3/08
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland's president and opposition leader can be legally referred to as ducks after a court ruled Monday that a
play on the twin brothers' last name was not slanderous.
The court ruled on a complaint by President Lech Kaczynski's office
against writer Jerzy Pilch, who repeatedly referred to the president
and his brother Jaroslaw as "Kaczory" or "Ducks" when writing a
column for the Dziennik daily newspaper.
The name Kaczynski derives from "kaczka," the word for "duck." The
word doesn't carry negative connotations in Polish, but few
political leaders would find it a compliment to be compared to the
animal. Maybe they are thinking of this famous duck... ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 11, 2008 8:23:02 GMT 1
Maybe they are thinking of this famous duck... ;D ;D ;D I know his name`s Daffy but I didn`t see cartoons with him in the past. So, I am not sure: is he nuts enough to be a symbol for PiS?? PiS, Kaczyński`s party, tries to hide its nut case members from public opinion. However, sometimes they surface and reveal their opinions to the parliament. Reading this article you will realise why intelligent people, e..g, teachers, will never vote for PiS. It is a party of extreme political fanaticism and racial intolerance. Polish Gov`t Says Anti-Obama Lawmaker Out Of Line
"Obama is an approaching catastrophe. This marks the end of white
man`s civilisation. "
Javno.hr
11/9/08
Poland's foreign ministry on Sunday condemned an opposition member of parliament who said U.S. President-elect Barack Obama's victory was a triumph for al Qaeda.
"Someone regarded by the (American) Republican right as a crypto-
communist has become the leader of the world's greatest power ... and al Qaeda are rubbing their hands with glee that the new president wants peace, not war," Artur Gorski of the opposition Law and Justice (PiS) party told parliament last week.
"The black messiah of the new left has crushed the Republican
candidate John McCain, and America will soon pay a high price for
this quirk of democracy," he added.
"Obama is an approaching catastrophe. This marks the end of white
man's civilisation, " he said in an address.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Jacek Paszkowski said normally he would not comment on remarks of MPs, but added: "In this case we feel obliged to express our disapproval of MP Gorski's address."
Paszkowski told news channel TNV24 that U.S. Ambassador to Poland Victor Ashe had been shocked by the remarks.
Representatives of all major parties in Poland's parliament condemned Gorski's views. Senior PiS official Joachim Brudzinski called Gorski's comments "absolutely scandalous" and said disciplinary steps would be taken against him.
Gorski later apologised, saying his comments were strictly political,
not racist.
Like other Europeans, a majority of Poles favoured Obama over McCain, and Polish leaders have congratulated the him on his victory.
Another Polish thorn in Obama's crown
BY NICHOLAS KRALEV
The Washington Times
November 10 2008
Poland seems to be winning the prize for angering President-elect
Barack Obama more than any other country has since last week's
election.
After a weekend dispute over what Mr. Obama said during a phone
conversation with Polish President Lech Kaczynski regarding missile
defense, Mr. Kaczynski was forced to issue an apology Monday
for "astonishing, unacceptable and racist" remarks by a member of
parliament from his party.
Artur Gorski, who is well-known in Poland for his often controversial
comments that have upset members of his own conservative Law and Justice party, called Mr. Obama a "black crypto-communist" and
a "naive individual whose election must delight al-Qaeda."
In remarks during Thursday's parliamentary session, he also said that Mr. Obama's election was "a disaster" and "the end of the white man's civilization. "
Officials in Washington were not amuzed. They instructed the U.S.
Embassy in Warsaw to demand an official apology from the Polish
government as soon as possible.
"Those comments were despicable and outrageous and don't warrant any kind of response," said State Department spokesman Robert Wood.
On Monday, Mr. Kaczynski issed the expected apology, saying, "These are the kind of highly odd views that this member of parliament is well known for. Clearly neither I, nor the vast majority of the party, share views of this sort."
Mr. Kaczynski and Mr. Obama spoke by telephone on Friday, in one of more than a dozen calls with foreign leaders the newly elected
president made. Mr. Kaczynski's spokesman said Mr. Obama promised to "continue" a missile-defense project the Bush administration has been pursuing in Poland and the Czech Republic.
The next day, however, Mr. Obama's team rejected that statement,
saying that he had made no such committments.
"His position is as it was throughout the campaign — that he supports deploying a missile-defense system when the technology is proved to be workable," said senior Obama foreign policy adviser Denis McDonough.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 13, 2008 23:21:47 GMT 1
Leader of PiS, J. Kaczyński, called the police to deal with a group of people who disturbed his meeting with residents of a Polish city. The leader was bothered by: loud comments from the audience; loud eating of chips; enthusiastic applause; loud talks on mobiles; The police took names and addresses of 10 people who were too boisterous. www.tvn24.pl/-1,1572967,0,1,jedli-chipsy-na-spotkaniu-z-szefem-pis-bor-wezwal-policje,wiadomosc.html  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 25, 2008 0:12:57 GMT 1
What has Poland done to be punished with such a president??  He doesn`t seem to realise he is making a fool of himself.... Georgia, Poland claim Russian troops fired at presidents
By DPA
Nov 23, 2008
Tbilisi, Georgia - Russian patrol personnel fired shots at a
motorcade carrying Polish and Georgian presidents Lech Kaczynski and Mikheil Saakashvili from the airport in Tbilisi to a settlement near the Ossetian border, the Georgian government stated Sunday.
Russian and South Ossetian defence officials rejected the claims.
Russia's military leadership said that Russian soldiers were under no circumstance involved in the incident.
The South Ossetian Defence Ministry called the Georgian claims
disinformation. However, the Polish government confirmed the Georgian reports. None of the reports spoke of any injuries.
The convoy returned to Tbilisi after the gunfire, reported the Polish
Press Agency PAP.
The settlement of Metechi, about 40 kilometres north of Tbilisi, was
to be Kaczynski's first stop during a visit to Georgia, where he was
going to open housing built for refugees of this summer's war between Russia and Georgia.
At a Tbilisi press conference, Kaczynski said he did not believe the
incident had been orchestrated by the Georgians to make Russia look bad. He said he heard Russian being spoken as the shots were being fired.
Kaczynski said the incident is proof that the EU-brokered peace
agreement between Russia and Georgia is not being kept, the Interfax news agency reported. A Polish official said he heard the sound of three salvos being fired.
Alexander Lomaia, head of the Georgian Security Council, said Russian forces had 'endangered the lives of both presidents.' Although it remains unclear whether the shots were fired directly at the presidents or up into the air, he called the Russian behaviour 'irresponsible. '
'We were traveling along a mountain road in the direction of Ossetia. We stopped and didn't make it to our destination, and now we're returning to Tbilisi,' said a PAP journalist who was traveling with Kaczynski. 'We heard shots. We don't know what happened.'
A Polish presidential minister told PAP the incident occurred at a
spot that, according to a peace plan for the Georgia-Russian
conflict, 'should be in Georgian hands,' and that Russian soldiers
were, 'at a distance of 30 metres from the president.'
However, the whole area has been extremely unstable since the war in August. There are almost daily shootings and bombings in the buffer zones that separate Georgia from its breakaway republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, leading to multiple deaths and injuries.
About 200 European Union observers operate in the buffer zones
surrounding the breakaway regions. However, there has been no EU reaction as of yet.
There are more than 7,000 Russian troops stationed in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, where authorities have given orders to shoot to fend off any possible new incursion from Georgia.And the commentary
President Kaczynski Goes Too Far in Georgia
Marcin Wojciechowski
Gazeta Wyborcza
2008-11-24
Lech Kaczyñski obviously knew that the checkpoint at the border with South Ossetia is manned by Russian soldiers. His trip with the
Georgian president to visit a refugee camp near the South Ossetian
border was therefore a provocation aimed at showing the world how Russia is progressing with its agreed withdrawal of troops from
Georgia. Or rather how it is not progressing with it.
On the one hand, Mr Kaczyñski was right, because Georgia should be supported and Russia should not thumb its nose at the whole world by making commitments it does not deliver on.
But the two presidents' excursion may have ended tragically. Let use imagine - what would have happened if the Russian or Ossetian
checkpoint commanding officer had told his people to fire at the
presidential column? Not such a big problem if they hit one of the
members of the press whom, no one knows why, someone had put at the front of the column. But if President Kaczyñski got hit? Or worse?
What would Poland be supposed to do then? Declare war on Russia? Drop bombs on Kaliningrad? After all, an attack against a foreign head of state cannot go unpunished. What would the Nato be supposed to do? Activate the collective defence clause of Article Five of the North
Atlantic Treaty?
President Kaczyñski's laudable intention to help Georgia may have
resulted in a major crisis. The most serious crisis in the region
since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and perhaps even one of a
global consequences. Did Mr Kaczyñski take this into account before
embarking on the trip? I am afraid not.
And though I respect his efforts for the world not to act
indifferently towards Georgia, this time Mr Kaczyñski went too far.
This is not a black-and-white conflict. Back in August, it was
Georgia that fired the first shots, which the OSCE official report
confirms. Though the Russians are not without blame, it was the
Georgian president's hot blood that led to the outbreak of the war.
In fact, Mikheil Saakashvili has demonstrated many times his hot,
Caucasian temper. But another wave of hostilities would be the last
thing Georgia and the whole region need.
Lech Kaczyñski would be more credible if he tried to help Georgia in
another way, for instance by strengthening Poland's position in the
EU by ratifying the Lisbon Treaty. His Sunday visit to Tbilisi was
pure political adventurism.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 25, 2008 0:15:58 GMT 1
Georgian folly, part 2. Polish official says Georgia shooting not seriousThe Associated Press
Monday, November 24, 2008
WARSAW, Poland: The leader of Poland's parliament downplayed the shots fired near a convoy carrying the Georgian and Polish presidents as "not very serious" but warned Monday that it would complicate Warsaw's frayed ties with Russia.
No one was hurt in the shooting Sunday in Georgia near territory
controlled by Russian and separatist South Ossetian forces.
Presidents Mikhail Saakashvili of Georgia and Lech Kaczynski of
Poland blamed Russian troops, while Russian officials have denied
Russian forces opened fire and blamed Georgia for being behind the
incident.
Bronislaw Komorowski, the speaker of Poland's parliament, said the
shooting appeared to be "not very serious at all but rather
unfortunate because it puts the Polish president in a rather awkward situation."
"Quick accusations leveled at the Russians on who-knows-what basis will undoubtedly have an impact on Polish-Russian ties," he said in an interview on state radio.
In minimizing the incident's seriousness, he added with a touch of
sarcasm that it must have been a "blind sniper" who fired the shots,
given that they came from only 100 feet (30 meters) away without
hurting anyone.
The incident has further increased the tensions that remain following the brief Russian-Georgian war that erupted in August over the breakaway province of South Ossetia.
The shots were fired near the tense Akhalgori area which — unlike most of South Ossetia — was controlled by Georgia before the war. Georgia has said that the presence of Russian and South Ossetian forces there violates the terms of a French-brokered cease-fire.
Komorowski said Polish authorities should clarify why Kaczynski's
security team let him travel spontaneously to the disputed area when it was not on his itinerary.
Kaczynski was in Georgia for celebrations marking the fifth
anniversary of the Rose Revolution, a popular uprising against the
2003 elections that drove President Eduard Shevardnadze from office and ushered the pro-Western Saakashvili into power.
Polish president voices concern over 'pro-Russian lobby'
img.rian.ru/images/11848/36/118483621.jpg
WARSAW, November 24 (RIA Novosti) - Polish President Lech Kaczynski expressed concern on Monday over the presence of what he called a "pro-Russian lobby" in the country, that is siding with Moscow over the situation in the South Caucasus.
"I'm concerned by statements in Poland indicating the presence of what I would call a pro-Russian lobby in the country," Kaczynski told reporters in Warsaw.
The Polish parliamentary speaker had earlier questioned Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili' s claim that Russian troops fired shots at the Georgian and Polish presidents while they were standing next to their motorcade on the border between Georgia and its disputed province of South Ossetia on Sunday. Russia says the incident was staged by Georgia.
Speaker Bronislaw Komorowski, a former defense minister, earlier said: "In a threatening situation, the president is immediately put inside the car, and the car drives off, as the president is protected by a bodyguard. But here we saw both presidents standing and talking, and it seems one of them [Saakashvili] was laughing. This raises many questions."
He also said it must have been a "blind sniper" who fired shots from 30 meters away, but missed altogether.
Giving his account of the incident, President Kaczynski said he had heard shots from automatic weapons, but had not rushed back into the vehicle as he had not been aware of any threat.
Kaczynski was in Georgia to take part in celebrations of the fifth anniversary of the "rose revolution" that brought Saakashvili to power.
Commenting on Saakashvili' s allegation, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov earlier said the attack was "a clear provocation" staged by Georgia. "They arrange provocations and then blame Russia," he said.
South Ossetia has also denied that its forces fired shots.
Russia and Georgia fought a five-day war in August after Georgian forces attacked breakaway South Ossetia in a bid to bring it under central control. Moscow later recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another pro-Russian breakaway Georgian province, as independent states.
During the August conflict, most Western powers sided with Georgia, accepting Saakashvili' s claim that Georgia reacted to military aggression from Russia.
However, Saakashvili' s version of events has come under scrutiny since the conflict, and Western rights groups have criticized Georgia's attacks on South Ossetian civilians.
A report released on November 4 by the U.S.-based Human Rights Watch said the Georgian military used cluster munitions in civilian areas of South Ossetia.
Independent observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe have said they are unable to verify Georgia's claim that Russia bombarded Georgian villages in the run-up to the conflict. Georgia had based its justification for its attack on South Ossetia on the alleged Russian bombardment.
Russia has withdrawn troops from Georgian territory, and an EU mission is monitoring the area. Shootings and attacks are frequently reported in the region, with Georgia and South Ossetia blaming each other for outbreaks of violence.
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 27, 2008 21:14:37 GMT 1
Tha`ts how Russian media comment on shooting at Polish President in Georgia
Motorcade shooting was a Georgian stunt - Poland
RT, Russia
11/26/08
Poland has dismissed last week's shooting incident involving the motorcade of the Georgian and Polish presidents as a stunt. Special services in Warsaw say the alleged attack near the South Ossetian border was a provocation staged by Georgians.
A report by Poland's Internal Security Agency (Agencja Bezpieczenstwa Wewnetrznego – ABW), published by the Dziennik newspaper, claims Georgia staged the incident for propaganda purposes.
The incident took place on Sunday evening when Georgian President Mikhail Saakasvili was showing his Polish counterpart Lech Kaczynski the area near the border with South Ossetia. After the convoy stopped at a checkpoint, there was gunfire, which the Georgians claimed was an attack by Russian troops.
Russia strongly denied the allegations, saying Tbilisi was behind it. President Kaczynski confirmed that shooting had taken place but stopped short of blaming anyone.
Russia's position has now been supported by Poland's ABW, who said "the shots fired near the cars of Georgian and Polish president were a Georgian provocation" .
The document points out that Mikhail Saakashvili kept on smiling after the first shots and his bodyguards didn't react.
The report also highlights another suspicious fact, namely, that the bus carrying journalists was instructed to travel in front of the motorcade, while the car with Kaczynski's own bodyguards was pushed back by Georgian soldiers. The result was that they were not in a position to witness the alleged shooting.
The official report was sent to leading national politicians.************ ********* ********* ******** 
Shooting a `Georgian provocation' according to Polish government
thenews.pl
26.11.2008
Poland's Minister of the Interior, Grzegorz Schetyna, announced today that Prime Minister Donald Tusk will receive the official report regarding the shooting in Georgia on Sunday this afternoon, and claimed that, according to the Internal Security Agency (ABW) investigation, it was a "Georgian provocation. "
This is at odds with Poland 's President, who declared immediately after the incident that the incident was a "Russian provocation. "
Schetyna expects that the full report will show that the shooting at President Lech Kaczynski and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili near the South Ossetian border at 17:40 on Sunday was a provocation by the Georgians.
However, "I prefer to leave the decisive conclusion to the Prime Minster," after he reads the full report, saysSchetyna.
The report, prepared for the government by Jacek Cichocki, secretary of Polish security services, will provide clarity as to what happened in Georgia .
"There is the question regarding the visit to the Georgia-Ossetia border, which was an unplanned trip. That route is completely unsafe, and it has resulted in scandal on the side of the Georgian security, as the [Polish] security staff got separated from the presidents," stated the Minster.
He added that he does not believe it is the fault of the Georgian security services (BOR), because it "all happened in such a dynamic way."
The head of BOR alleged earlier this week his team were often several cars away from President Kaczynski as he and Saakashvili drove to the disputed area which was controlled by Georgia before the short war in August to see if Russia had yet withdrawn its troops from the area.
The Polish government is expected to give their final analysis of the shooting this afternoon. There have been accusations that the South Ossetian military or Russian military units were involved in the shooting, which Russia denies. Their official statement parallels Schetyna in concluding that it was a "Georgian provocation. " |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 28, 2008 20:51:52 GMT 1
What do you think? I think it was the Russians.
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Nov 28, 2008 21:48:17 GMT 1
What do you think? I think it was the Russians. Mike It wasn`t Russians. This matter has already been resolved, they were South Osetian border guards. South Osetia split from Georgia and voluntarily joined Russia. |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 28, 2008 23:28:02 GMT 1
So if they joined Russia, than they are Russians.
Mike
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Post by tufta on Nov 29, 2008 15:22:38 GMT 1
So if they joined Russia, than they are Russians. Mike Mike, they are not Russians. History of the region is extremely complicated. In short and in simplification: Ossetia was together with Georgia annexed by Russia at the turn of 18th and 19th century. Shortly after the bolshevik revolution Ossetians were smartly divided into two different soviet republics to decrease their power and unity. That's virtually how South Ossetia and North Ossetia came into existence. On one hand South Ossetia was formed partly on the soil that was historically Georgian. On the other hand Georgians did supress Ossetian culture and language. Nevertheless Georgians and Ossetians lived in peace side by side, with many intermarriages and so on, until they had one great common enemy - Russia, which held them involuntarily in the Soviet Union. This changed in 1989 when Poland started the domino effect which led to the dismantling of communism and the so called Eastern Block (Soviet Russian communist empire). The tensions between Ossetians and Georgians where fueled and used by Kremlin for the benefit of Russian imperial ambitions in Causasus. The present situation is the result of this long policy and it would have never happened were Georgia given the MAP to join NATO this spring at the treaty's summit in Bucaresti. Now, a question to you Mike. What do you think, which NATO countries opposed Goergia joining the Treaty? |
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Post by valpomike on Nov 29, 2008 17:43:54 GMT 1
Russia and Germany and France
Mike
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Post by tufta on Dec 4, 2008 18:08:51 GMT 1
Good for Poland we didn't press to join the eurozone as fast as possible. Sorry for the brothers Slovaks who did...
CEE stands for Central and East Europe.
Poland in recession? Not likely
2nd December 2008
CEE region will experience an economic growth slowdown between 2008 and 2010, however, unlike the euro zone it will not feel a recession
Central, East, and Southeastern Europe will undoubtedly experience an economic growth slowdown until 2010. However, forecasts demonstrate that, unlike the USA or the euro zone, the region will not undergo a recession."It's simple, if the recession in the euro zone does, perchance, prolong and worsen than expected, the forecast for Europe may prove inaccurate in terms of recession," Leon Podkaminer, staff economist at The Vienna Institute for International Economic Studies told WBJ.
The new EU member states are going to be affected by the financial crisis to different degrees. Their growth will slow, mainly due to the decrease in export demand, investment and consumption, as well as minimized credit availability. According to the forecast, in 2009, a GDP decline of up to -1 percent is predicted in the US, the euro zone and Japan, respectively.
However, the wiiw report gives an optimistic forecast for new EU member states, that in 2010 GDP growth "assumes a modest recovery" of 3.5 percent.
Magda Pytlak
From Warsaw Business Journal
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 5, 2008 0:01:18 GMT 1
Poland in recession? Not likely
Polish bank system is in a good condition. Bad loans are rare, those bank guys have been prudent granting their graces. However, Polish export will decrease due to recession in Western Europe. Revenues will be lower but we will live through it... |
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Post by valpomike on Dec 5, 2008 5:16:31 GMT 1
I understand it is very hard to get a mortgage in Poland, is this the case? Why is it? I also heard it is hard to get a loan for a new car, is this the case? Why is it?
Today the exchange rate is again over 3.02 per 1.00 American dollar. Last year when I visited Poland, it was 2.73 to 1.00 And this is changing each day, why is this? All of the Europe stock market is in worst shape than ours is, why is this?
Mike
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Post by valpomike on Dec 5, 2008 19:12:07 GMT 1
Someone in Poland, please answer my questions in the last posting.
Mike
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Post by locopolaco on Dec 5, 2008 21:20:55 GMT 1
I understand it is very hard to get a mortgage in Poland, is this the case? Why is it? I also heard it is hard to get a loan for a new car, is this the case? Why is it? Today the exchange rate is again over 3.02 per 1.00 American dollar. Last year when I visited Poland, it was 2.73 to 1.00 And this is changing each day, why is this? All of the Europe stock market is in worst shape than ours is, why is this? Mike because credit is basically non exoistant in poland. poland doesn't need the same kind of troubles that we have to deal with in the usa now. however, credit is expanding in PL which i am not sure if it is a good idea. stock markets are lower in EU because they all are kind of based on the US market or at least are affected by it. money exchange works the same way as the stock market.. it ebbs and flows just like stocks do. |
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 5, 2008 21:49:10 GMT 1
I understand it is very hard to get a mortgage in Poland, is this the case? Why is it? I don`t think it was so hard. Banks feel quite secure about giving a mortgage loan because if it isn`t repaid, they sell the house/apartment to another customer and still have their profit. Now, when everybody is talking about the crisis, banks became more prudent. Harder than before, yes. The banks got instructions from their global headquarters to be more wary with loans... And in summer it was 2 zlotys. Guys who bought dollars when they were at 2 and sold them for 3 zlotys made 50% profit within weeks. Unfortunately, I wasn`t one of them. ;D ;D ;D ;D Zlotys got weakened because foreign investors and market players withdrew their assest from Poland, selling bulks of Polish currency. When there is plenty of sth in the market, it must get cheaper. But Polish economists rejoiced at the weakening because the zloty was too strong, hampering Polish export. |
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Post by valpomike on Dec 6, 2008 18:30:52 GMT 1
Loco,
Why would the rest of the stock markets in Europe be based on our market here, this is our stocks, and could not have much to do with others.
Without credit in Poland, how does one buy a new car, or a late model one, only with cash?
Mike
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Post by Bonobo on Dec 6, 2008 22:12:26 GMT 1
More Questions Than Answers
The Warsaw Voice
3 December 2008
Controversy continues to simmer over the Nov. 23 incident in Georgia when several bursts of machine gun fire were shot off near a car in which Polish President Lech Kaczyñski was traveling together with his Georgian counterpart Mikheil Saakashvili.
One hypothesis, supported by Poland's Internal Security Agency (ABW), is that the incident may have been masterminded by the Georgians.
Some of the Polish media, quoting excerpts from a secret report
compiled by ABW head Krzysztof Bondaryk, speculate that the incident, near the town of Akhalgori, could have been useful for the Georgian president as a way of diverting media attention from his internal problems. The incident coincided with the fifth anniversary of the Rose Revolution that saw Saakashvili take over as president of Georgia.
Three months after the start of the Russian-Georgian conflict and the effective breaking away from Georgia of its Abkhazia and South
Ossetia regions, Saakashvili could have been eager to show the
European public that the Russians were not meeting the terms of the French-brokered cease-fire, some have speculated. This is why, the media say, Saakashvili unexpectedly proposed Kaczyñski an unscheduled evening visit to a refugee camp close to the border with South Ossetia. After the incident, the presidents immediately returned to Tbilisi.
The fact that the officers of the Polish Government Protection Office
(BOR), whose duty was to protect the Polish head of state, were cut
off from Kaczyñski and he was only protected by Georgian officers at
the time of the incident, may suggest a Georgian hand in the course
of events. Another fact that may suggest this is that a van carrying
reporters was moved to the front of the column, which is unusual with such convoys. Moreover, the machine gun fire was not directed at the vehicles; none of them was damaged, and no one was injured.
In the first hours following the incident, the Polish foreign
ministry asked the Georgians for an explanation and also approached the Russians over the incident. The following day Poland's foreign minister Rados³aw Sikorski met with his counterparts from the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania, Sweden and Slovenia. They all condemned the incident.
"Yesterday I had my heart in my mouth-I feared for the president,"
said Gen. Marian Janicki, chief of the BOR. He added he had never
heard of a convoy in which a "vehicle of any kind would have moved
ahead of the president's car."
Janicki indirectly accused the Georgians of a lack of
professionalism, saying the visit was prepared on an ad hoc basis and the convoy was virtually unprotected.
But Kaczyñski voiced a different opinion. "The problem is not that
there were no BOR officers beside me, but that there were Russian
forces where they should not have been,"20he said. "If the Polish
officers had been prepared I would have probably ended up on the
ground in a pose that I am not particularly fond of, and there would
probably have been an exchange of fire. People could have been
killed, while the way it was no one was injured."
Kaczyñski says he is sure that the Russians were behind the
incident. "Even if the checkpoint was Ossetian, the area is
controlled by the Russians," he said. "And this is the essence of the
problem-the Russians are occupying positions in which they were not present before Aug. 7, 2008."
Many Polish politicians criticized Kaczyñski over the Georgian
incident. "If you hold the post of president you must not behave like
a cowboy shooting from the hip," said Bronis³aw Komorowski, speaker of the lower house of the Polish parliament.
The Georgians organized Kaczyñski's trip "very badly," Komorowski
said. "The Polish president was maneuvered into a situation and it
seems he is now putting on a brave face," he added.
Meanwhile, Western politicians have refrained from accusing anyone of firing at the Polish and Georgian presidents. The only comment from NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoof Scheffer was that it was worrying that shots were fired at all in the presence of politicians.
Russian officials have played down the issue. "The West is not
treating seriously the Georgian government's statements about the
convoy with the Polish and Georgian presidents having come under fire on the South Ossetian bor der," said Dmitry Rogozin, Russia's
ambassador to NATO.
************ ********* ********* *********
Sejm rejects motion to recall Parliamentary Speaker
Polish Radio
05.12.2008
The Parliamentary Speaker spoke ironically about the shooting at the Georgian border with Ossetia where the cavalcade with Polish and Georgian presidents was driving, which stirred uproar in the Law and Justice Party.
Following a heated and often abusive debate at the Lower House the motion was rejected with 247 against and 147 votes for the recalling of the Parliamentary Speaker, Bronis³aw Komorowski.
After the voting Speaker Komorowski thanked those who gave him credit and added that in time he hopes to convince the opposition as well.
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Post by locopolaco on Dec 8, 2008 0:14:51 GMT 1
Loco, Why would the rest of the stock markets in Europe be based on our market here, this is our stocks, and could not have much to do with others. Without credit in Poland, how does one buy a new car, or a late model one, only with cash? Mike global economy, the dollar, interconnectedness. |
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Post by valpomike on Dec 8, 2008 0:49:01 GMT 1
So how do they buy a used car, only for cash?
Mike
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